Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

ficuss · June 2003

Tblazed, once again you make my point. The radio is worthless unless it can be easily used in someone elses car. Once it can be easily used in another car, the eBay price will climb, and radios will be stolen.

Frank

tblazed · June 2003

That wasn't MY point. I won't belabor it any more than this: There are lots of factory car stereos with and without built-in security on eBay because lots of people take out the OEM stereo and put in aftermarket systems. Right now there are 113 listings under "Delco CD". Supply and demand. They do seem to get up to $75-100 range before the auctions end. You can get the security theft lock set up at a dealer or at a place that does Delco factory service. For a fee of course.

stever · June 2003

Cparise1: I don't recall what makes were in previous "initial" make/model link lists, but GMC is in the "drill down" list now. I suspect the makes are juggled now and then but I don't know what the reasoning is.

Caflyfish: Warranty Gold is an Edmunds partner. Check out the "Warranty Gold" Claims discussion for a bunch of pros and cons.

Steve, Host

tblazed · June 2003

Example: for my particular Trailblazer, under Engine Calibration the first part number listed in the column is the first calibration version that was used in production, there have been 5 revisions since that initial calibration, the last number is the current part number for the latest calibration. The last part number is what you get which includes all the previous revisions listed. I was told when they do the PCM reprog, you get all the newest revisions: Engine, Trans, System, that pertain to the PCM. Nothing's been changed with speedo or throttle control cal's so there's just the one original version part number shown under those two. Clear as mud.

st1100v4 · June 2003

All the after market "warranty" companies sell several different plans. The top one is an "everything covered EXCEPT what is listed as excluded" plan. These typically cost a couple of hundred $ more than the next lower plan and are very comprehensive, excluding only routine maintenance, paint, trim, upholstery, wear items like pads, rotors, clutchs, etc. It's the only one I would consider if going after-market.

This is only one data point, but my experience with an outside company was very favorable. I had never had an extended warranty on any of my cars before. I purchased a new '96 Ford Windstar and near the end of the factory warranty I got a solicitation in the mail from Warranty Gold. I paid $482 (much higher now) for their top policy for 100K miles. Through 90K miles when I sold the van, they paid right at $3000 in claims (largest item, new transmission). Yes, the Ford service guy bitched a little in dealing with them (I think it's part of their routine), but I never had any trouble getting the service authorized or paid.

zueslewis · June 2003

"(I think it's part of their routine)"

That bothers me. Put yourself in the service manager's (not advisor's) position for a moment.

Which one would you prefer:

1) A customer says "I'm having transmission trouble and I'd like an appointment". You say sure, come in tomorrow at 8. The customer gets there, your tech drives the vehicle, decides it needs a new transmission, tells you, you order one. Simultaneously, Enterprise delivers a rental to the customer. The transmission arrives in 2 days, it takes a day to put it in. After the install, you look in the factory warranty book, note the code for "transmission - replace", put that in. Your tech is paid, and your dealership is paid with the monthly warranty reimbursement.

2) A customer says "I'm having transmission trouble and I'd like an appointment". You say sure, come in tomorrow at 8. The customer gets there, your tech drives the vehicle, decides it needs a new transmission, tells you, then after waiting on hold for 40 minutes, you get to tell someone on the other end of the line (who doesn't know a dipstick from a cue stick) what's going on. An incident number is logged. You get a call back at 4:00 that day (takes an hour), with someone telling you an adjuster will be out to see the vehicle, get the customer's authorization to tear down the transmission for photos.

The customer is called, and it is explained that they'll need to authorize $400 for teardown. Customer blows gasket. Wants rental car. You tell them they can't get one until the adjuster OKs the repair. Customer blows gasket. Calls you names.

Customer calls every hour to see if the adjuster is there yet. No one can give you a name and phone number for the guy, so there's no way to contact him and no way to know when he'll be there. Three days go by, customer moving from simmer to boil, talking about suing you (for what, I don't know).

Adjuster shows up, takes 2 hours worth of photos, goes to lunch, then comes back and makes a 1 hour phone call. The repair is approved, but the adjuster can't give you an authorization number or amount.

You call the warranty company again. They approve a rental car, but only $20 a day (that'll be fun to tell the customer). They approve the repair, but won't pay your tech for teardown because they're going to replace the transmission. Instead of getting a reman unit through your parts department, they get a USED unit from a salvage place (because they CAN). One week later, the transmission arrives and must be cleaned before installation (not a good sign).

The transmission is installed. Total down time, nearly two weeks.

Your shop is now on the hook for parts and labor for a used transmission from a salvage yard - congratulations.

Customer picks up car, billing information mailed immediately to warranty company. Warranty company finally pays bill 90 days later - accounting lady is very angry with you, as is general manager.

Or worse yet, warranty company (simply an insurance underwriter) goes out of business - dealer eats the bill.

** Fiction? No, it's happened 8 times, in my dealerships, with engines and transmissions. That's why most dealerships don't want to deal with aftermarket warranties.

st1100v4 · June 2003

As I said, I can only speak for my experience. I took my Windstar in for some other repairs, told the service advisor that I had an external service plan and he grumbled "sure would be easier if you had our plan." Not nastily; I just took it as "routine" to pitch their own manufacturer plan. Later, at work, they called me and suggested that I get the transmission replaced (knowing of course that I had the outside plan). This tells me they were more than willing to trade off the "hassle" of dealing outside for the extra service work. I got a rental ($30/day max re-imbursement), they got a transmission (from Ford), put it in and that was that.

zueslewis · June 2003

and the majority of repairs go smoothly, but when a few really corrupt a service advisor's attitude, those are the ones they remember.

I don't want to be someone the service rep hides from when I come in - I don't want to get passed off to the new guy!

redline65 · June 2003

I've been experiencing an intermittent problem with the seat belts in my '03 Envoy XL. Sometimes when you go to grab them they won't come out. This has happened in the front passenger seat and the middle row seat on the driver's side. Anyone else experience this? Usually after turning the car off the seat belts are released again.

nuyorkah · June 2003

"Hi, I was wondering if anyone has done this or if anyone can confirm that this GM part number 12497685 is what I need for the 3 skid plates for a '03 LS trailblazer 4x4?"

I haven't done this but that is the correct pn#.
12497685(List$200)for short wheelbase and
12497686(List$211)for long wheelbase.
Both pn#'s are currently on backorder from GM.

jr45 · June 2003

As a consumer, I usually don't see a benefit in paying extra for extended service plans. (On my Olds Intrigue and Bravada, I got the 5yr/60LK Major Guard plans for nothing because GM threw them in as an incentive to buy Olds.)

Take this example - suppose you bought 2 new cars for your family, and the price of a 100K warranty was $1500 for each car. Instead of buying the warranties, you put the $3500.00 in an interest earning account for out-of-warranty car repairs. At the end of 100K miles, how would you come out? Gambler's odds are that most times you would come out even or ahead by banking your money and self-insuring rather than buying an extended warranty. Plus, you are not at the mercy of the warranty company and their adjuster, who have a vested interest in paying as little as possible to fix your car. And by self-insuring, there is no risk that your warranty company will go belly up, or force you to litigate to enforce your warranty. Believe me, you are generally in a losing situation when you have to hire an attorney to pursue your claim in court. Even if you win, it may be a dark victory if you end up paying as much in attorney's fees as any award or settlement. Also, if you are paying for your own repairs out of your "banked" funds, at least you are master of the transaction with the service department, and can specify parts and direct the manner of the repair. (And, I'm sure zueslewis would agree that your service department is happier to take cash rather than wait indefinitely for payment, and understands they are beholden directly to you.)

Another point is that if a defect arises within the factory warranty period, even though it is not discovered until after the warranty expires, the defect is still legally covered by the factory warranty. This would also apply if a repair were attempted during warranty but was ineffective, leading to the same failure outside of the warranty.

I think you may want to consider an extended warranty if you just can't afford to pay out of pocket for a given catastrophic repair, or like the peace of mind of having warranty protection, in which case the warranty may be well worth the price.

cparise1 · June 2003

For my '02 Envoy I bought the GM Major Guard for 100K miles just for the peace of mind. A huge deciding factor was the trust I have established with my dealer. They aren't perfect but they are willing to listen to reason when I've complained about repairs. For instance, when my wife's '98 Pontiac Transport needed a new wiring harness just after the warranty ran out, I complained and I only paid for a new battery, the old battery croaked on the wiring harness short.

I figure if the dealer or GM has that much good faith in the relationship after the warranty is out, then the GM Protection Plan must be decent. So far, I haven't had to use the protection plan. If I never do it will be worth the cost just in peace of mind.

'02 Envoy XL SLT now has over 20K miles on it and I still love it.

Happy Motoring,
Chris

ficuss · June 2003

jr45, I'm sure you made a typo , $1500.00 times 2 is $3,000. At today's interest rates, you would earn a whopping $150.00 or so after 5 years, assuming you would in fact save the money. Human nature would have you spend it. The one thing your logic fails to account for is the complexity of the triplets. I agree, if you are insuring a Chevy Malibu with a conventional engine/drive train, standard electronic ignition, standard engine control linkage and basic electronics, a basic tried and true car, an extended warranty is a waste. But the triplets are a FAILED ATTEMPT at being the most technologically advanced cars on the road. With seven computers operating everything from drive control to air conditioning, it is not a question of what will fail, but of when they will fail. Having read this board for nearly 2 years has convinced me that the extended warranty is the best way to go. My engine has been replaced under warranty. I don't want to think what it would have cost after the basic warranty runs out. With all of the problems that have been listed here, how could anyone not consider the GM Major plan. In my mind, it is putting the burden back on the GENERAL. They created this beast, let them pay to maintain it. At $1500.00, that's $42.00 per month on a 3 year note. A small price to pay for the piece of mind you get. Besides, the GM plan is transferable to the new owner should you sell the beast before the warranty expires. It will add to the resale value at that time. It will be easier to sell the car if the buyer has some assurance of future repair costs.
So I don't think it is much of a gamble. With the triplets, it is a no brainer.

Frank

tidester · June 2003

Gambler's odds are that most times you would come out even or ahead by banking your money and self-insuring rather than buying an extended warranty.

You left out half of the "expected value" equation. Along with considering the cost of the extra insurance you have to take into account the potential "payoff" which is basically the product of the probability of making a claim and the "payout" from that claim.

For example, if the probability is 1 in 10 that you will make a claim and the "payout" would be $15,000 then your expected value would be:

EV = $15,000/10 - $1500 = 0

or breakeven. These values are for illustrative purposes but show that if you're going to invoke "gambler's odds" then you have to look at the entire equation.

tidester, host

jr45 · June 2003

Thanks for catching the math error - I meant $3,000. I realize the interest earned on this sum is inconsequential, but really beside the point I was making. Put the money in the market if you want. I suppose I can agree that the self-insurance approach is riskier with the triplets than with, e.g., a Toyota Camry, but I don't concede I'm wrong in my logic or my economics.

Extended warranties differ, and some are definitely better than others, but there must be a nice profit margin in selling them. Everybody and their brother sells them nowadays, such as auto insurance companies and credit card companies. The day after after I bought my Bravada and added it to my policy, Geico called me and pitched their extended warranty. If they are profitable, it might mean they don't pay out that much.

zueslewis · June 2003

"warranty" (insurance policy), there is no legal recourse and there is no warranty, in the Magnusson-Moss sense of the word.

And, no, I don't work for GM in their GMPP division.....

jr45 · June 2003

You're right and the difficulty is always knowing the variables, such as the probability repair will be needed, and the cost of the repair (your payout under the warranty). I don't have these numbers and, true, a careful analysis would try to discover them. I'll stipulate to using the seat of my pants. Don't forget, however, the other problems with warranties, such are the possibility they will nitpick you and refuse to pay.

tidester · June 2003

Don't forget, however, the other problems with warranties...

Absolutely! I think it was Zues who made a pretty good case for that!

tidester, host

jr45 · June 2003

Good point zueslewis. Mag-Moss applies to manufacturer's warranties only, so with an aftermarket warranty you lose the powerful remedies under the Act (such are the ability to recover attorney's fees) and are left with state law contract remedies.

drcsf · June 2003

To me, it doesn't seem much different then buying health, life or other insurance. For example, most healthy people can probably go without health insurance, paying out of pocket for small incidents and saving a lot of cash. But since a catastrophic illness would cause serious financial hardship, everyone wants health insurance. Insurance companies have the biggest buildings in every city because they all take in much, much more than they pay out. People like peace of mind and insurance/extended warranties allow you to buy that. Trying to calculate if its a good investment is so difficult because it's usually not. Even if you have the vehicle that needs $5000 in repairs under the warranty and you personally come out ahead, the overall program is still going to take in more than it pays out. Otherwise GM wouldn't do it. They have incredibly sophisticated actuarial tables, taking into account the entire GM product line, not just the triplets. So when I purchase an extended warranty, I expect the company will get the best of me and I never let that bother me. In fact, just like my health, life, auto, and disability insurance, I hope I'll never need it.

kram18 · June 2003

Thanks nuyorkah, One last questoin since you see to be knowledgeable about GM parts. Do you have any idea of how long this part will be on backorder from GM for? Thanks again, Mark.

dshepherd3 · June 2003

Pertaining to the company going bust, here in NYS, this cannot happen with respect to leaving the policy holder stranded. When you buy the policy you are only dealing with the administrator, as such. A viable insurance company backs the policy, and there are requirements, financial bonds and indemnification partners, to guarantee payment of claims. I went thru this with AUTO PRO, years ago.

zueslewis · June 2003

I can count on one hand the number of claims I've seen denied through manufacturer's extended warranties, and they were all due to gross abuse and lack of maintenance on the owner's part.

1 out of 4 large repairs, "covered" by private warranty companies, were denied in my presence.

tblazed · June 2003

Happened across a triplet complete wiper motor [non-permissible content removed]'y for $20 so I bought it just to look at the inside and have a spare in stock. This was manufactured in 6-02, so it's at least 8 months newer than the one in my TB. Took off the plastic cover, and there has been WATER standing in the bottom side of the cover, at the angle that it will normally be in the vehicle, submerging the edge of the circuit board! NO DRAIN HOLE in the bottom to let water out, even though there is a vent above near the top! (Cleaned up nicely though and should work fine) Looks like water gets in through the electrical connector and has no way out so it will eventually eat up the circuit board inside and also ruin the rotary contacts that sense where the wipers are. That would explain why some are stopping mid-way in the wipe cycle.

I predict a huge recall coming sometime in the future. Anyone going in for warranty repairs or recalls should mention wiper problems to at least get it documented if not replaced.

kpp14 · June 2003

tblazed

When I picked up my 2002 Envoy slt I noticed the wipers would do their own think when going over bumps and around corners. I made a previous posting regarding this. I watched the tech open it up and a minimum of a cup of water comes pouring out. Had two motors with this problem! The second one he put some caulking around the seal. I guess the water moves around and makes contact to actuate the motor! I have to wonder when the problem occurs at GM or the supplier?. I had never driven the truck! Does the wiper fluid feed run through it? What colour was the fluid coming out of yours? Mine was a rusty colour? Never had the problem since. What if the wipers failed because of this while in the middle of a 12 lane hiway? Who is liable for any collision that occurs? This is scary!

rickchywy · June 2003

Greetings all. I took delivery of my TB on 12 April. I found this forum not long after and check it out every day. Its about time I joined in. My TB is a LTZ, pewter, 3.42, locking diff, sunroof, running boards, and underbody shields. I added front and rear mud flaps, the fronts after I read in this forum they will fit with the running boards. Also added the hood deflector and the rear hatch deflector (I like the way the center brake light fits into it). The only thing I did to the engine is to put in a K&N air filter (I live at 6,167 feet and dont want it to starve for air).

I moved from a Subaru Forrester to the TB. What I miss from the Forrester is the gas mileage and the lateral support in the front seat backs. The Forrester averaged 26mpg over 38,000 miles. So far the TB has just over 2,600 miles. I dont keep track of the first 1,000 miles of driving, so my fuel mileage records start at the 1,000 mile mark. As of yesterday when I filled up it is averaging 20.62mpg for 1,607 miles (I keep a logbook in the car (I mean truck) then input it into an Excel spreadsheet)). My mpg is higher because I live 15 miles from downtown Cheyenne which means Im in the boonies, I mean prairie, so about 8 of those 15 Im doing 55mph on a narrow county road. Im taking a quick trip to California next week to do some family research (photograph headstones). Ill let you know how the TB performed and what the gas mileage was.

I love driving my TB. The major selling point was the front legroom; Im 6ft 4in tall. My best friend bought a Tahoe Z71 the same day I bought the TB. My TB has more legroom than his big Z71!

When the TB is going up hills (these are Wyoming hills at higher elevations like 5, 6, and 7 thousand feet) it downshifts a lot. I guess that is because of the 3.42 axel and the low oxygen level.

I have had some problems. Like the door gasket for the right rear door was coming loose and the washer nozzle on the rear wiper slid towards the motor pivot kinking the hose and not washing the window. Both problems fixed at the dealership. My TB doesnt have a vibrating gas peddle, yet. At what speed does this happen? It has faltered only once when I stepped on the gas from a stop. One night driving home with the high beams on I didnt see the coal black steer standing broad side in my lane until the last minute. I braked hard, did a hard left and a hard right to avoid going off the road surface (no shoulders). That maneuver threw out the camber on the steering. So Ive already had a wheel alignment AND a headlamp alignment. Oh, didnt hit the steer, it turned and went back off the road.

Because Im deaf in the right ear and need a hearing aid in the left I havent taken OnStar up on its calling plans, besides they want too much. When OnStar calls because of an accident or when they call back because the signal was broken what does the radio say? I have noticed when I have an incoming call (dont know from whom) the radio says phone. Oh, the radio is the Bose system (I dont use it because I cant hear the full frequency spectrum). Will the radio say phone or OnStar? I sent OnStar an email and they dont know, they just said they can get a hold of me when they want to. I dont know how if the radio says phone and I dont answer because I dont have any minutes paid for.

Can the DRL be turned off AND still have the automatic headlights? Using low beam for the DRL is going to reduce the life of the bulbs and they are not easy to replace.I wouldnt want to try replacing them in a Wal-Mart parking lot like I did for the Forrester last year when I was in Pennsylvania.

When I bought the TB I also bought Major Guard for 60 months or 100,000 miles. Id rather deal with the manufacture on extended warranty problems than some insurance company. I dont like to hassle; I just want to have my car (oops, truck) fixed. I know there are things GMAC wont cover and that is acceptable. I want the major assemblies which cost major $$$$ covered and I believe they are with Major Guard.

As for the engine problem (cylinder sleeves), is it happening to 2003 engines? The sticker says my build month is 03/03 and I found paperwork in the glove box labeled cockpit line dated 03/28/03.

Sorry to take up so much space. The rest of my inputs will be shorter. Sorry if the spacing may look wide, I wrote this in Word and copied and pasted it here.

Richard

tblazed · June 2003

I remember your earlier posts - that's one reason I bought this motor [non-permissible content removed]'y.

" I watched the tech open it up and a minimum of a cup of water comes pouring out. Had two motors with this problem! The second one he put some caulking around the seal."

The used one I took apart was "caulked" all around the cover with a black tar substance. That's not where the water gets in. It gets in thru the electrical connector. You can see the motor and gear [non-permissible content removed]'y and the connector thru the cowl vent openings right there, exposed to the elements!

. " I guess the water moves around and makes contact to actuate the motor! I have to wonder when the problem occurs at GM or the supplier?." Whenever the vehicle is sitting outside in the rain! Like, on the dealer's lot.

"Does the wiper fluid feed run through it?" No. It just does the wiping.

" What colour was the fluid " Orange-Red rust colored residue water line inside the case and 1/2" or so of the edge of the circuit board where it had been sitting down in the water. No doubt, the rusty water is conductive! The wiper motor speed is controlled by a stepped voltage from a resistor ladder in the turn stalk switch, but if conductive water gets in the wrong place on that PC board it will likely turn on the wiper motor when it's supposed to be off, or cause erratic operation.

luvmytralblazr · June 2003

I'm new to this group and bought a 2002 Trailblazer EXT last July. I just received an Urgent Recall notice. I immediately called service department at the dealership where I bought it and the service rep said it has to do with the Gauges going crazy at some point. Has anyone had this fixed yet? Also, there is a rattle when I go up a hill that my husband can't seem to find and the drivers side window looks like it is etched all the way down. Otherwise, I love my trailblazer.

tblazed · June 2003

What's interesing about this recall now is they issued a bulletin back in or about 6-01, for all the first 6 months of early triplets built, for instrument cluster problems. Can't remember the last time someone here reported their gages being dead or going berserk. Mine in my 11-01 built TB have never failed. I am in no hurry to get that newest recall done. Waiting for something to actually fail or break to take it in.

gerrymoe49 · June 2003

Im very interested in buying an Envoy XL. However, Im not sure if I should go with the V6 or the V8 engine. Ive heard good tihings about the V6 and not much on the V8. My thinking is that for an SUV that big I would need the V8, but Im not going to do any towing at all. Please help.

kpp14 · June 2003

tblazed
I wonder what extreme conditions the circuit board is designed to operate in. There must be some "acceptable" limits in temperature and moisture that it can operate in. I'm sure it can take a degree of moisture laden vapour but is not designed to operate as a submarine. If you say its open to the elements then i'll bet it is not been tested for -30*c, ice, water, salt and road crap. Boy wouldn't that be a nice time for it to fail!
What can we plug the hole with....more caulking?
How about 10ft of duct tape.....now thats about as high tech as the over looked problem!

nuyorkah · June 2003

"Can't remember the last time someone here reported their gages being dead or going berserk"

Someone recently did.

2002envoy May 27, 2003 1:55pm

ficuss · June 2003

go back to my May 13 post recommending drilling a drain hole in the bottom of the motor housing. It will work as good as any other fix. If GM can't keep the water out, then at least we can let it drain out.

Frank

kmigliaccio855 · June 2003

After reading the majority of the messages on the board I wanted to support/add to the mix. I caught the tail end of the 02 release and tracked down a loaded 4wd Majestic red ext, and picked it up 9-1 before I explore my problems I want say I love this truck other than common incompetent at the dealer Its been great so far. First at delivery I noticed the rear gasket around the license plate pocket was sucked in. I had it replaced... what a nightmare that was special order paint to match. Not long after it happened again, spoke with the body shop manager today and he expects a redesigned seal shortly. Also had A/C problems with it not cooling...but it fixed it self,gotta love intermitant problems. the next round of problems occurred with rattling grab handles. Now I don't know if its me but if there ae 6 grab handles in he truck and some are rattling I WOULD think the dealer could have solved the problem in less than the four visits it took me. Second After 8000+ miles I have yet to average more than 14.0 MPG over 1000 miles yet. With the rough winter we had in the NE a control cable on my onstar had issues and needed to be replaced. But the most devastating problems to date have been being told by a muffler shop that theres no room on the drivers side to add a dual exhaust due to the fuel fill line, and during the first month of owner ship a flat bed caught the drivers mirror square sending the mirror or what was left of it flying about 20 feet and scratching the paint. I have added the wind defectors to the sunroof hood and windows, front and rear molded mud flaps, and the K&N Cold AIR Intake. I really want to add duals, add the wood grain dash improve the lights, add the bull bar and beef up the sound system as well as find a few more ponies any suggestions would be welcome.

elevatorguy · June 2003

Just a little poll here guys. Post which model triplet you have including options, sticker price and what you paid. I myself have an 03 TrailBlazer LT with no options. Stciker was around $32,000 and I paid $25,000 with the rebate (no trade-in) about 3 weeks ago.

Take care,
Elevatorguy

ericn1 · June 2003

Green 2003 LT EXT w/ Onstar, Side Airbags, Cassette, Upgraded tires, 3rd Row Flr Mats

MSRP incl dest chg of 625 = 35,050

Paid 32,150 - 3,000 rebate - 500 bonus cash - 502.09 GM Card rebate - 9,500 trade (1999 Honda CR-V EX w/ 67K)
= 18,647.91

suvsrclunkers · June 2003

With all the gas you guys are wasting driving your gashog SUVs everyday ya might as well be sending checks to ALQuaida! Do you EVER stop to consider what you are doing?

tlauro · June 2003

just for entertainment, I'll reply....honestly...there's not a bit of truth behind what you're saying. it's about as accurate as saying Korean manufactured cars profits go to fund nuclear weapons in the far east.

get a grip, quit staying up so late, get some sleep and when you wake up, go get a job or an education.

kgbkahnk · June 2003

Well said, Tim.

zueslewis · June 2003

left field is calling again, dude.

Seriously, for a politically correct person, you're being awfully offensive to some nice folks talking about their vehicles.

tblazed · June 2003

22.4 MPG hauling 800 lbs of passengers and a couple hundred pounds of equipment at 70 mph in my Trailblazer passenger truck SUV doesn't seem too wasteful to me. I guess we could have divided up and driven two Honda Civics, but at 37 MPG each, that would have "wasted" even more gas!

tblazed · June 2003

Geez and I even responded to that one. One incident in a 2002 Envoy - wonder when it was mfg? and if that 1st bulletin fix in 6-01 had been done.

tidester · June 2003

This is off topic. Drop it!

tidester, host

tblazed · June 2003

"22.4 MPG hauling 800 lbs of passengers and a couple hundred pounds of equipment at 70 mph in my Trailblazer passenger truck SUV" is off-topic??

tidester · June 2003

... is off-topic??

No. Terrorism is off topic. If you want to discuss that issue relative to SUVs please visit the I don't like SUVs, why do you? topic.

tidester, host

tblazed · June 2003

Just making a point that "some people" miss- that there actually is a practical, useful purpose for SUVs. I really do try not to terrorize people (too much anyway) when I drive my Trailblazer....

tblazed · June 2003

"I wonder what extreme conditions the circuit board is designed to operate in" The circuit board is coated with a clear coating (enamel or lacquer) to help moisture-proof it so it is made to work in a moist environment, but not submerged in water. That coating won't completely waterproof the PCB. Another problem that makes the situation worse is, they used a cheaper phenolic circuit board rather than a fiberglass-epoxy type, and the phenolic board "wicks" or absorbs water along the edge, letting the water get under the coating and circuit traces. Eats its way from the inside out. Of course it shouldn't be sitting in water in the 1st place.

dkmtbext2003 · June 2003

My wife & I don't like how the front passenger window has to be locked when the window lock is turned on. In our case it is always on since the kids are in the TB probably 90% of the time too. Anyone know where I can find information on how the window lock can be removed from the passenger window when it is turned on?

This is getting to be a hassle as the kids have learned that when mom's widow goes down to try their own window controls, those little buggers are smarter than we give them credit for! We have a 3000 miles long road trip looming in July and I sure would like to keep the back window locked with each of us in the front having control of our windows.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Don 2003 TB Ext

dkmtbext2003 · June 2003

My wife & I don't like how the front passenger window has to be locked when the window lock is turned on. In our case it is always on since the kids are in the TB probably 90% of the time too. Anyone know where I can find information on how the window lock can be removed from the passenger window when it is turned on?

This is getting to be a hassle as the kids have learned that when mom's widow goes down to try their own window controls, those little buggers are smarter than we give them credit for! We have a 3000 miles long road trip looming in July and I sure would like to keep the back window locked with each of us in the front having control of our windows.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Don 2003 TB Ext

aldan93 · June 2003

I didn't know that gas was needed to grow food? or drinking water?, I mean we should leave the oil alone! He should stand for the ethical treatment of oil!!! Poor little OIL!!! OIL HAS FEELINGS TOO!!! If we used hydrogen from the ambient air you people would still beeeeeech about it! The whales, the air, the trees, the oil, oh the poor little oil!!! Take a shower!

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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