Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

cparise1 · July 2003

Todd,
I checked out the EGR web site and I failed to find much if any difference between their product and GM's. The GM unit I bought was no drill and didn't have any rubber blocks.

The EGR fender flares were pretty cool...

Chris

gam2 · July 2003

To all triplets owners, Consider changing tire sizes when you get your next set. 255/60-17's are optional on Bravada's and worth it in my opinion.
They are a little wider than stock and just a little smaller in diameter, not enough to make a difference in speedo readings. There is a decent selection of performance tires in this size, although stick with the standard size for off-road type tires. I know I will change when my Envoy needs tires.

GAM

mlm4 · July 2003

I've seen a few TrailBlazers with amber lenses on the leading edges of the roof rack rails. Are these roof marker lamps? Why do some vehicles get these?

aldan93 · July 2003

Anyone notice a smell of burning rubber/brake smell/exhaust smell coming into the cab of the TB on occasion with the windows down or up? Its hard to put an label on it, maybe oil? I was wondering if anyone would concur? What the heck is going on!!!

iexplore2000 · July 2003

mlm4:

The roof markers you see are for the Trail Blazer Northface Editions. The NF editions hit showrooms this past spring I do beleive. If you saw the roof markers, you may have also noticed the color keyed exterior mirrors as well? Also, the NF edition has recessed headlamp washers that look pretty spiffy.

IMO.. they can keep the roof markers and give me the color keyed mirrors instead.. no need for headlamp washer's, my Enovy already has those, but would definitely like the color keyed mirrors!

IExplore2000

njohnw4 · July 2003

The North Face also has different two tone paint. The lower color consists of a large fender flare that covers a little less than half of the door.

tblazed · July 2003

"To all triplets owners, Consider changing tire sizes when you get your next set. 255/60-17's..."

Maybe those triplet owners with 17" wheels. Don't think those will fit too well on my 16" wheels. And, that's only about 1/2" shorter sidewall, and only 10mm wider than what is already there. (245/70-16)

If I ever do find a set of 17" TB wheels for sale on eBay etc LOCALLY though, I might just do it anyway. (All I have found so far used take-offs are about $100 in shipping charges away)

kram18 · July 2003

If I go from the sock 245x70x16's to 245x75x16's will it throw off my speedometer enough that I should get everything recalibrated?

mgriff27 · July 2003

I would like to transport a canoe (abt 100lbs) on the roof of my 2002 TB LS. Any suggestions? Is there a cheap way of insuring no damage? Must I use a aftermarket roof rack system?

Any advice would be greatley appreciated.

Matthew

tblazed · July 2003

Going from 70 to 75 profile tires will increase the overall diamater about 1". It would make your speedometer read about 3% slower than you are actually going. At 70 mph the speedo would read about 67-68 mph. You would also rack up about 3% fewer miles on the odometer too so your calculated MPG would appear to go down a little. The PCM would have to be recalibrated by a dealer to correct for that error unless Hypertech comes out with a programmer someday. I doubt the dealer could do that. You would just have to live with the slight error most likely. ("Honest, officer- it's these darn bigger tires making me think I was only doing 7 over the speed limit!")

tb4me · July 2003

Just got the notice on the extension of engine warrenty for cylinder sleeves cracking. Now have 65,000 miles on the LT. Anyone been unfortunate with this problem? I really havn't seen much in the posts.

steveotoy · July 2003

Have 5000 miles on my 03 Envoy. Have been die hard Toyota since 1987. So far we absolutely love the Envoy. I am suspect on long term longevity of the vehicle. I have been reading these posts for six months now, and it amazes me as time goes on I develop the same problems that are posted. Went through the A/C pressure switch problem. Seems to work excellent now. The wind noise is terrible at high speeds and the dealer says their is no fix. Why would GM allow this on such a fine vehicle is beyond me? I seem to recall complaints of a squeak from the left front area? My sets up after driving about 30 minutes or so. It is primarily on choppy roads. It is loud enough, that I can hear it even with the stereo turned up. As I figured, my dealer says no one else is having the problem. Since it only appears after the vehicle has been driven for 30 minutes, it may be hard to isolate. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so, what was the fix? THANKS

stever · July 2003

Get a rack. They aren't cheap but they work. Check REI.com for info on Thule and Yakima stuff.

Foam blocks will work but I don't recommend them. They can slide around and tend to get lost.

Whatever you do, please tie the canoe to the racks and then tie off the front and rear painters to the bumpers as a fail-safe.

Steve, Host

tblazed · July 2003

tb4me, do a search- enter "cylinder sleeve" in the "Search This Discussion" above and I think you will find quite a bit. Seems like most of the failures were actually built before 7-01 so that makes me feel a little better since my TB was built 11-01. Hopefully the late '01 built 4.2s were fixed by then. So, those of us with the late '01 built '02s AND the warranty extension come out pretty good, I think.

n7don · July 2003

Anyone have experience with the Coil-rite air spring setup? There's a kit for TB/Envoy: http://www.truckspring.com/airsprings/firestone/product/4106.asp

tblazed · July 2003

Looks like that just increases the load capacity. It would be nice to add a levelling system to lower the hiked-up rear end with no load. .

N7DON.. an amateur radio call sign? Whatever you do, don't mention putting a radio in a Trailblazer! Thought I would never hear the end of it! ( Works fine BTW)

scottc454 · July 2003

GM scored pretty high on this. Without the triplets, they'd probably be in first place.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/07/08/pf/autos/bc.autos.durability/inde- x.htm?cnn=yes

richlavoie · July 2003

Pretty good for GM.

I have read the posts and yes, lots of problems have been reported here. However, I am starting to believe they have sold quite a bit of these trucks. I see more and more on the road.

3000 Km and no problem yet. Touch wood. The alignment is still off, but i getting the idea that this is a tire problem. I will get it fixed next oil change.

Love (and I mean love!) this truck. The windvisors are great; I do believe they make quite a bit of difference on wind noise. The look of this vehicle is absolutely fabulous, according to my friends and neibours (and me!).

If GM works on fixing the problems and making this truck reliable, they will sell quite a few of these.

pepper50 · July 2003

I know not to use the old type "normal" coolant (yellow-green) in my Envoy. I haven't seen any leak, but I noticed the coolant level in the overflow reservoir is down about an inch from the "cold fill line", so I'll top it off. Is there any problem with using a non-GM brand such as Havoline as long as it meets Dex-Cool specification? In other words, any problem with mixing two brands of Dex-Cool type coolant? Have others of you had to top off the coolant? Did you buy it from the GM dealer or another brands? My coolant looks "pink" rather than "orange" that others have described at times. I still don't plan to go the entire 5 years before replacement. Guess I'm old-fashioned

quickdtoo · July 2003

http://www.penray.com/bulletins/dexcool.htm

elevatorguy · July 2003

What type of window visors did you buy? I am looking to hear from anyone that has EGR brand window visors or bugshields.

Thanks,
Todd

richlavoie · July 2003

I have the GM ones. The funny thing is that they put them wrong and it looked awful. I bouth the car at a different dealer because his sales department was better switched on. I brought the truck to my closes dealer last week and their service is excellent. Wished i had bought there, but it is the cost of employing imbeciles in the sale depart... In anycase, they fixed them easy and now they look fine. I do admit that I hate the idea of using tape. Try this link for info on AGR:

http://www.trailblazer.homestead.com/EGR.html

I must admit that these look better then GM's. But I like it simple.

luxride · July 2003

I know there are some people here that have remote starters. Just wondering if anyone has had any problems with having it installed in their Envoy and what brand is recommended...

quickdtoo · July 2003

I believe that Weathertech makes the EGR window visors. Here's a link to the MacNeil site that sells them. Well worth the extra $$ over the VentVisors GM sells.

http://www.weathertech.com/store/vehsearch.asp?item_group_id=4&am- p;make_id=11&year_no=2002&veh_id=705&veh_opt_choice_i- d=0

tlauro · July 2003

Well, as many here may have noticed, I've not been nearly as active here or on my site as I used to be. It's been really fun and the LTZ a joy to have, but sadly I've decided to part with it for another ride.

I'm also open to anyone who wishes to take over any web site material that I have if it should prove helpful or useful.

I potentially have my ride sold to a Dealer on Trade or if that for some reason isn't as strong a move, I also have a private buyer interested. Perhaps as early as next week I'll be back to a sport sedan.

Thanks again for the great place, information, support and friendship to many.

tim lauro
http://www.timlauro.com

brunopuntzjone · July 2003

What does a vent visor do exactly? Don't laugh

aldan93 · July 2003

Tires, tblazed, have you seen the new rims on the dealer lot lately, a shadow effect within the wheel ,skinnier spokes for newer TB's, very nice

GM quality, I would say 90% of our complaints are due to suppliers to GM, not GM, except, stamping body panels, powertrain<---engine only, the rest is all tier 1 supplier issues, Delphi<---AC, Drive train American Axle, Electronics are from all tier 1 suppliers, Interior is Lear, Glass is GM, so they need to start getting tough on them!!! Hold them all responsible! I know they do, but it is cheaper and more productive, to send crappa out the door defective, then fix! Dealers and us consumers are the Quality control, I won't get into lean manufacturing concepts Toyota uses, because it would cost GM 100's of billions to upgrade the plants!, And I will never buy with my American Money, to help support Foreign GDP!!!

n7don · July 2003

tblazed.......... actually the info on the coil-rite air springs came from Bilstein sales. Apparently they don't make the load leveling system, just the shocks. Coil-rite is a Firestone product and it appears they also have the load sensing valve, etc to install a self leveling system. I'm going to make a few trips with the popup camper to see if the rear sags too much. If so I will try just the coil inserts and manually inflate.
Yelp... N7DON is my ham callsign. Looks like putting a radio in will be a challenge. I've got an older Alinco with a removeable face that might be doable. I'd be interested in your experience(s). With the mountain top repeaters in Arizona I can cover half the state with 5 watts or less. Ham related info can be sent to n7don@yahoo.com without distrubing the disinterested. Hi Hi!

iexplore2000 · July 2003

Hmmm.. read your post and one thing comes to mind...

Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix... Buy American eh? Don't know if you are familiar with the latter two vehicles, but if not, check them out. They are pretty much identical and also known as a joint venture between GM & Toyota. Personally, I do not think that in this day and age you can honestly buy "American."

Lets not forget that GM is preparing to build an new engine plant over in Japan... Also, let's not forget the many ties GM has in "joint-ventures" with many of of foreign automakers (i.e. GM/Toyota). I can even remember my grandmother buying a 1988 Pontiac LeMans that when you opened the door, had a stamp that read "Made in Daewoo Korea!"

Just food for thought.. but at this point, unless you are building your vehicle yourself, you are definitely vulnerable to having a "foreign object" on your vehicle someplace!

Also as I am a young consumer, I have been buying "American" since I was able to secure credit. Needless to say, that I have owned many GM, Ford and Chrysler products. I can pretty much guarantee by 100% that my next vehicle will not be a GM, FORD or CHRYSLER product. I want to become a diverse consumer, therefore it's time to give another auto maker a try! I want to experience owning a non-american vehicle to see what all of the hype is about. Will it be more reliable, will the service department treat me like a human being, will the Lexus dealer have red carpet to walk on when I take my vehicle in for an oil change?? <SMILE> Heck.. if I can get my 03 Envoy paid off in a year, I got my eye on that new Nissan 350Z sports car!

Hmmm... Wondering if that's what Tlauro's getting???

Thanks!

IExplore2000

iexplore2000 · July 2003

Congrats on your new automobile adventure. You sure will be missed via this website. Thanks for bringing us news and helpful resources concerning our triplets over the years!

Most IMPORTANTLY... Send me an e-mail Tim.. I may have some helpful information for you concerning selling your TB.

Just to let you all know, I was successful at selling my aunt's Trail Blazer but due to a technical glitch in one of the selling services that I utilzed, the ad was published late and also published FOUR times!

My phone rings at least three times a day for this vehicle! I never knew that a used TB would be so popular! Too bad I don't own one personally to sell again, heck I might be able to make a real profit off of it since I continue to receive phone calls over a vehicle that we no longer own!

IExplore2000

elevatorguy · July 2003

Dennis,
I would appreciate you giving me that info on selling a TB myself. Nothing is etched in staone, but if I could get a good price on my LT, I would upgrade to the LTZ. I am interested in what you were asking and what you got and what the details of the vehicle were. Any info that you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me at elevatorguy@rcn.com

Thanks,
Todd

tlauro · July 2003

"Hmmm... Wondering if that's what Tlauro's getting???"

Nothing really big now, but I am ready to order my next generation Vette once they announce it

Accord EX Sedan with V6 and Navi for now though. I'll make it tastefully distinctive of course and well...I'm sure I can do the same for performance

tim

mdavis69 · July 2003

Hey Tim, the 04 Saturn VUE is going to have the 3.5L V6 Honda engine that's in the Accord EX if you want to stick with an SUV

I think it's only about 300lbs heavier.

Yet another great example of how it's nearly impossible to buy 100% American. The lease on my car is due up in December and I am heavily considering the VUE. Saturn body + Honda engine + GM employee discount = Awfully tempting.

P.S. The wife still loves her Envoy though.

tblazed · July 2003

You will be fine with the Chevron-Texaco Havoline Extended Life DEX-COOL® GM Approved product available. I remember reading that's who makes it for GM. It has the GM approved specification GM6277M and licensed DEX-COOL® name. I bought it at WalMart for about $6 a gallon. I do recommend mixing it 50/50 with distilled water but they claim any water fit to drink is OK. BTW been using DEX-COOL® 50/50 mix with distilled water in my '88 S-10 4.3 since '95 with no problems whatsoever. Still looks brand-new clean down in the radiator. I do change it more often than the 5 years since that is not what the '88 came with originally.

ross1962_99 · July 2003

Personally, I have been very happy with Yakima rack products. Check out their site http://www.yakima.com for info on what you need.

acl1966 · July 2003

Just noticed something different with my Drivers Information Center following the recent Instrument Cluster Reprogramming Recall. I have an 02 Envoy SLT, build date 8/24/01. Prior to the recent reprogramming, when searching through the personalization features, when getting to the side mirrors tilting in reverse, the DIC would read "tilt mirrors in reverse". When checking it out yesterday, the DIC wording is now changed to "rear curbside assist". The function still works fine but the wording changed. Just an observation. Nothing else has changed and the truck still runs great. Anyone else notice this following their recall?

acl1966 · July 2003

The Drivers Information Center now reads "MIRROR CURBSIDE ASSIST" not rear curbside assist that I previously stated. Sorry for the confusion.

onlyagirl · July 2003

Oh, acl1966.. "mirror curbside assist" or something like that is th wording on my '03 Envoy....

Now, I need some advice from you guys here....I have almost 4000 miles on my Envoy...the oil life is at about 75%....according to the manual I don't change it until the computer says to but I called the dealer and the service rep said , yes that is what GMC says , that you can wait but that he prefers to change every 3 to 4k....so what is everyone out there doing? I used to change my Camry oil every 3 to 4K...my last car was a MBE320 and I went by the computer and sometimes it was almost 14k miles before a change....(the service was free but only if the computer said it was time)

Thanks

hardhawk · July 2003

My .02 worth is that you are crazy to go until the computer says it is time. If I did that on my Envoy, it would go 12,000 or more. Call me old fashoned, but I change oil every 3,000 on the dot since I started driving in the 70's. I use reg oil and consider it cheap insurance. That being said, the larger capacity would let you go longer if you want. Even with the capacity, I would not go any longer than 5,000 under any circumstance. My brother has a MB ML 320 and he waits until the computer says to change, which is usually about 10,000 miles. For about $25 per oil change, the peace of mind is worth it.

stever · July 2003

I've never seen anything to document a reason for the 3,000 mile interval. I think it's mostly a ploy to get people to spend more money by pouring good oil down the drain.

I go by the owner's manual myself and change at the recommended 7,500 mile interval (dead dino).

If you are really concerned about the quality of your oil, spend ten bucks on an oil analysis.

Lots more discussion in the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 discussion.

Oh yeah, I drive them forever too - we've only owned 4 cars since 1982, all maintained, mostly, per the manual.

Steve, Host

onlyagirl · July 2003

I love it when I get two very positive opposite views! LOL.....
Hardhawk, I was leary about going by the computer in my E320 and called the service department many times and said look the computer says I have 5000 more miles to go but it's already been 10K....they said it's ok....I didn't mind paying 25 dollars for an oil change...however the complete service was free if done according to the schedule...a few times when I had the car in for other problems they would go ahead and change the oil...also I don't change it myself and I liked to have all work even oil changes done at the MB service dept..which was about 2 hours away...I know that is overkill to most people but as long as the car was in warranty I didn't want anyone else doing anything to it..I traded it for the Envoy when the warranty was about to expire because I was nervous about owning it out of warranty...also may be silly but I am happy with the Envoy so far.....

I think I will wait until at least 5 to 7K before changing....Steve, where to you get an oil analysis? If it's at the quick lube place then is it trustworthy? Also, does the oil life indicator tell you when it's time to change? I mean it's at 75% now...does it go down to a certain % before it lets you know?

Thanks again....I love this place...:)

9t9wu8 · July 2003

After the latest reprogram (less than a month ago) mine reads "Curb View Activated". Of course it shows some random view within its movement range. They simply have not been able to fix it.

Oil life monitor? I've lost faith in it. Drove to Texas (1400 miles) in OD pulling an empty flatdeck trailer ..used 9% of oil life. Returned in Drive pulling the trailer with a 3500 pound car on board ...used 9% of oil life. My logic says turning an extra 1000 rpm and pulling the load will break the oil down quicker.

tblazed · July 2003

The oil life indicator definitely does not go by time anyway. Apparently just by accumulated miles. Have had my TB since Jan '02 and just now am up to 10k miles, but have never seen the light come on. I have changed the oil 4 times already including the 1st oil change at about 900 miles. Original factory fill oil came out looking like black paint. Can't imagine leaving the original oil in for as long as that indicator calculates.

ficuss · July 2003

Because most people will never bother to check the oil LEVEL. The remaining 3 quarts you have at 10,000 may be clean, but not quite enough oil to lub. the parts. At least when you have the oil changed at 3,000 miles, you may not be more than a quart or so low. Many new car service departments will openly state that it's ok to burn a quart every 1,500 miles. With self serve gas stations everywhere now, how many times will the average person check the oil level. I don't believe in throwing away good money or oil, but a 3k interval at least insures I won't be 2 or 3 quarts low by 10,000 miles.

So to anyone who relies on the computer to tell you when to change oil, at least check the oil LEVEL whan you gas up. It's not just the quality that counts, it's also the quantity.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Frank

bobbies · July 2003

Hi Folks....Question...I have an '02 Bravada with about 17M miles on it. Had a few of the minor stuff mentioned on this site but that's about it. Love the truck. My gas mileage on interstates during vacations is always 21 - 23. Is the DIC "average milage" the average on the whole 17,000 or just since the last fill up and reset? When not on vac. Momma does mostly intown driving....to Bingo.
Anyone know??? thankx

mlm4 · July 2003

Frank -- good point about checking the oil level. Oil life is not a function of distance, but rather engine revolutions and temperature + load. Just because the oil is black does not mean it is not good for the engine. Also, regardless of what the Oil Life System says, the oil should be changed at least once a year. I personally like vehicles with the DIC so I can see how much life is left, rather than waiting for the idiot light to come on. See this... http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/images/issues/may03/TLMay03e.htm- l

onlyagirl · July 2003

I will check out those links that Steve and mlm4 posted....

I do have a question...how is the factory oil different from any other oil? I had one service manager tell me a few years ago that my oil was 75 dollars because they put the "good" oil in my car by mistake....as he patted me on the head and basically said now be a good girl and just pay the bill and don't ask questions...that I should be so happy to have the "good" oil.....the manufacturers regional service representative didn't think too much of that statement when I reported it to him...

....yes,I am blond but I'm not totally stupid....

Frank, very good point about checking the oil level...I can't remember when I've ever checked the oil..ok I HAVE done it before, just can't remember when.....so maybe I'll do that today...

Bobbie

ross1962_99 · July 2003

"Because most people will never bother to check the oil LEVEL. The remaining 3 quarts you have at 10,000 may be clean, but not quite enough oil to lub. the parts"

If you are burning oil like this, you are driving a FORD! Drive immediately to your nearest GM dealer and trade that Exploder in for a triplet! :-)

Seriously, yes, of course you should check your oil regularly. As for the interval, 3000 miles was probably correct in the 70's, but today's motor oil viscosity does not break down as rapidly as it did 25 years ago. IMHO, 7500 miles is about right for average driving conditions with a 7 quart capacity.

ross1962_99 · July 2003

As this is your first oil change, I would go ahead and change it now. During the first 5000-6000 miles, there is likely to be debris in the oil related to engine break-in. Also, there is likely some oil lost during this period due to the piston rings "seating". After the first oil change, however, it probably won't burn any oil for a long time. (100,000+ miles)

tblazed · July 2003

this tidbit of info regarding oil quality and the function of the cam phaser system on these 4.2s:

"Engine oil has a major impact upon the camshaft actuation system's responsiveness. Oil temperature, viscosity, and quality can slow and/or inhibit the phaser's ability to reach a desired phase angle."

That's one reason why I prefer to change my oil before it gets thick and black. The more cooked down and contaminated the oil gets the slower the cam advance mechanism may respond, effecting performance. I intend to keep this truck at least 10 years, so I think that's pretty cheap insurance at less than $1.69 /qt. Plus if you have ever seen inside an engine after 80-100k miles with infrequent oil changes you'd get the picture.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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