Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

ficuss · August 2003

Frank

paracanary · August 2003

Thank you, it worked and saved me a trip to the dealer

cparise1 · August 2003

I've noticed many a time when someone will post a question that can sometimes be answered by simply referring to the owners manual. You can view your owners manual on-line and maintain all your service records through this GM web-site. The site will also track your mileage based on your daily driving estimates and remind you when your vehicle needs servicing. You'll also be made aware of any recalls if you store your VIN on the site. Should add to your owning experience and provide some value. Its free.

I've had some fun with it. Check it out. https://www.mygmlink.com/main/US/en/gm/home

Happy Motoring,
Chris

stever · August 2003

Aw, c'mon Chris -- that's no fun!

Subaru has a similar site; must be some GM/Subaru cross-pollination at work.

Steve, Host

aldan93 · August 2003

Not to sound like a smart guy , but open your gas cap, and securely place it back in!

ross1962_99 · August 2003

Nice! Too bad 2004 will be the last year for the Bravada. I thought it was perhaps the nicest looking of the three (I have the TB).

redline65 · August 2003

I think everyone knows the Envoy is the nicest looking of the three.

scottc454 · August 2003

I think everyone knows the Envoy is the nicest looking of the three.

From my totally objective viewpoint:

The Envoy looks good for a minivan. The Trailblazer is the only one rugged enough to not look out of place on the trail. However, I can understand that its styling is too aggressive for lesser mortals who are better served by soccer mom vehicles.

envoyenvy · August 2003

tidester · August 2003

When your username is envoyenvy then everything sounds like envoy envy to you! ;-)

tidester, host

kpp14 · August 2003

prefer the extended Trailblazer. Now that looks like a mini van! Great big 7 seat keilbasa bus going down the hiway! Definately the best looking is the Envoy short box in black. The rear window trim matches the body colour. And as for you guys who like to hang 100lbs of plastic accessories off your trucks........(any takers on this one)?

nuyorkah · August 2003

I spoke(separately)to 3 Techs today they all said they have yet to see any complaints about this. They stated what we are experiencing is not abnormal its just a slight voltage drop. Ficuss stated this in post #12478. Unless its really bad don't worry all is fine.

nuyorkah · August 2003

"Question for the board i don't have a headlight out but was thinking about replacing the bulbs to the Sylvania Silverstar high performance bulbs. I was concerned because i remember hearing some people having trouble with the wiring in the triplets the wiring couldn't handle the wattage. i called Sylvania they said that they didnt know of any trouble they said the wattage is 65 i think that is 10 more than what we have now. Any feed back would be helpfull"

I have had the Silverstars in for about 3 months with no problems. When I changed the low beams one side had a Philips at 55w the other had a Sylvania at 51W. The Silverstar 9006 low beam is 55W. The 9005 high beam is 65W thats 5W more than the stock. I believe the people with problems were using higher wattage bulbs that are not street legal. Also one thing to remember is these bulbs will not last as long as the stock bulbs, Sylvania website states 1 year with normal usage. They are not taking into account the that the Triplets have Daytime Running Lamps, so on nice clear sunny days I turn off the DRL's. To add I am totaly happy with my very white headlights. On the downside the fogs don't match they look yellow I don't use them together any more. Sylvania has plans to release the fog bulbs later this year.

nuyorkah · August 2003

"Last but not least, the service writer showed me this particular website via GM's Dealer World system that brought up all of the details concerning my vehicle including; Where it was manufactured, date and time assembly was completed, all specific order codes for options and trim, etc. Kinda nice! I asked for a printed copy, but the online printer goofed, so he asked that I remind him this upcoming Thursday? Anyone else know of this particular dealer world website?"

Dealerworld is for dealers only. You do need a username & password to access the site. If you don't get your info Thursday and you have an email addy that you don't care about making public post it and I can probably get the info on your truck for you and email it to you.

darthkim · August 2003

Credit goes to brad at the mct forums.

If you check here
http://www.jetchip.com/DynoSheets/DynoSheets.asp#Chevrolet

They have the envoy on a dyno. Largest gain is 21hp at 4500 rpms. Might just make the jet chip a good investment for a quick upgrade.

and regarding the looks of the envoy vs. chevy. I like the grill better on the envoy, but body and curves definitely go to chevy.

I actually decided against the gmc because of those round reverse lights in the back bumper.

nmgringo · August 2003

I have a 2002 Envoy, Built 6/01, that is showing the same profile exactly. I got mine as a, "previously owned", vehicle. When I first got it, I didn't notice the Problem. I test drove it prior to purchase, but never noticed anything wrong. It took about three weeks before it showed up. I took the truck in to the dealer, and got the expected response. They couldn't figure it out. They did the tire balance trick, no help there. Went to the computer and found a FSB about the rear springs. Replace them for vibration. Problem there, my truck has the air suspension on the rear. Can't replace springs that aren't there. Their solution, pump the tire pressure up to 45 psi. What the heck is that. They did it twice on me. Both times I brought it back down to 32 PSI. Thank goodness for the on board air compressor to adjust it when I took too much out. Interestingly, I live in the HOT southwest. Temps have been in the HI 90 to century mark daily for the last month. For the last two weeks, the noise and vibration has diminished greatly. It is at a point right now where I could not take it in and complain about it. Don't know the significance of all that. Will have to wait and see what happens. One thing to look at, book calls for 87 octane fuel. I was putting 86 octane in. Noise/vibration showed up. I went to 91 or 88 octane, depending where I was buying. Sticking with the 88 and things have smoothed out. Any other opinions on this? Very open for discussion.

nmgringo · August 2003

2002 Envoy SLT

For those that are interested, I keep fuel mileage data on all my vehicles. I do it in MS Excel. Have a spreadsheet I have used for years. Put in miles driven, gas used. My DIC matches the numbers I get from EXCEL right on. My overall average is 21.3 MPG.

Those that don't trust the DIC, reset it and try again. I think it is very close on my truck.

aldan93 · August 2003

Holy cow, thanks for mentioning it, Have any of you people seen the Honda Pilot, It looks like a jacked up Dodge caravan from behind, I thought I was passing a Dodge caravan the other day, and it was a new dark red Pilot, LOL, what an ugly vehicle!!! Now that looks like a mini van, As far as ours go, the Bravada is hands down better looking than the TB or EV, I own a TB.

iexplore2000 · August 2003

Geez.. You all sound like a bunch of 5th graders screaming "Mine is better than yours!" I really cannot believe what I am reading! Ha, ha..

Truth of the matter is that all THREE vehicles are pretty much identical and beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholding in the case of the triplets. To each their own, but essentially, we all own the SAME vehicle! They are all manufactured at the same facility (with the exception of the EXT models)!

Geesh!

NEXT SUBJECT!!! Hopefully something a little bit more of substance??

<SMILE>

IExplore2000

PS: Essentially, we all are driving mini-vans in the format of 4x4's! Ha, ha.. Oh.. to tip the scales a little further, ever consider the fact that we are all essentially driving STATION WAGONS without the wood trim on the outside! EEEEKKK!!!

ficuss · August 2003

I have noticed, that while driving either my TB or any other rather fast, powerful vehicle I happen to be in control of, the only tailgates I get to see passing by me are either Honda Odyssey or the top of the line Chrysler minivans. These two cars seem to be in front of, and going faster than most other traffic. So lets not knock the mini vans too hard, lest they blow us off of the road.

Frank

stever · August 2003

That's a little known secret among us minivan owners. The cops are looking for "fast" cars so some MV owners choose to speed since MV's are stealth vehicles.

You won't see me exceeding the limits of course.

Steve, Host

lurker01 · August 2003

Sorry, but just can't get past that grill on the Bravada. :-P
My vote is the Envoy for looks. The TB looks more agressive, but don't care for the front grill, headlights or the bubble taillights.

From a practicallity standpoint, I didn't want full time 4wd on the Bravada. Envoy gives me the best of both worlds.

At first I wished I got the XL, but now realize it would not fit in the garage.

So, I'll remain happy with my Indigo Blue Envoy SLT 2002. Even with all the quirks.

ps. still getting better mpg since the software update. I recommend you have your dealer update your code.

rye78 · August 2003

In reply to Steve host's comment on the speeding minivans. I recently left my job at a police department where I was a patrol officer. I have to say that I always kept it in the back of my head that people with flashy cars get the most tickets. I guess I'm trying to say that even minivans where a target for me. But I didn't write a ticket until the person was doing 15mph over or more. I think that is generous.
Well now I am no longer a cop. Guess I better watch the speed limit in my flashy Black TB. By the way, the TB and Envoy look way better than the Bravada!

jac27 · August 2003

Although I didn't feel strongly about the appearance of any of the three, I slightly preferred the looks of the Envoy. The 5/60 warranty and all of the toys convinced me to buy a Bravada almost 2 years ago. It has been the best vehicle I have ever owned. 45k miles including two round trips from Illinois to California have shown very few problems and great performance.

2k_impala_ls · August 2003

I think I may have the bad sway bar links. when I am turning or on a lon curved ramp I feel a shaking that feels like the links. anyone else have this problem fixed?

celebrimbor · August 2003

Does anyone know if there is a TSB on this? Mine recently broke, and the part's at the dealer. Is this a free replacement or do we have to pay?

nuyorkah · August 2003

There is no TSB and it's covered under your warranty.

quickdtoo · August 2003

More than one of us has had the strap replaced by the dealer only to have it break again. They replace it with an identical weak strap. I used one of my wife's old leather belts to make a new one, easy to do, just use the old strap as a template and copy its width, length and punch holes in the right spots, it's just sandwiched in the mount. tim

twinrotts · August 2003

Do we know if the Jet Chip for the 4.2L 2003 Envoy will work in all triplets with the 4.2??

Anyone have this done??

What cost??

Any negative issues experienced??

I wish they showed torque gains. That's what really gets the truck moving!!

elliot69 · August 2003

Most likely you are right, I had squeeking, groaning clanking noises one hard turns going up driveway curbs, just coming to stops or sometime small bumps. They replaced left & right front lower control arem brackets. I have read this same problem with others. Also complained about rain sence wipers jsut turning on on a bright sunny day. Hence new wiper motor, module, Cap-WSW A (???) All new wiper motor assembley. I should probably have checked how much water was in that motor!!! But still loving that best lloking bunch of the triplets 02 Envoy SLT. Elliot

scottc454 · August 2003

You can calculate the torque.

HP = torque * RPM / 5250

At 2500RPM that comes to a torque increase of 27.3 ft-lbs. 20 at 5500RPM. This is good.

cparise1 · August 2003

The Envoy was my choice for the dash board styling first, and outside appearance second. I thought I had buyers remorse when on seeing TB's I thought they looked so cool--until I started seeing more and more Envoy's! I have a friend at work who bought a TB recently and now he says every time he sees an Envoy he wishes he'd bought one.

DIC experience. Mine is 5-6% optimistic, not complaining as I think this is accurate enough.

2002 Envoy XL SLT owner.

Happy Motoring.
Chris

tb4me · August 2003

Hi all,

Well so far so good 69,000 and still running fine---knock on wood please!! There were some posts a while ago referring to AC problems specifically with a Low Pressure switch. It started last week that I noticed that the AC started to blow warm much longer-- about 20 seconds when first started, then eventually begin to get cold about a mile or so down the road. It is also cycling noticably faster than it had been especially at start up. Once up and running for a few miles it seems fine--very cold! and the system appears to be holding the interior temp. as set. It is happening during every start up now and seems to be getting longer to get cool air. Could this be a symptom of the switch?

brunopuntzjone · August 2003

Wish I knew how long it should take also. I'm in TX and takes about a minute+ to get anything close to cool air. But with temps over 100F and interior temps at about 130F, I can't really expect it to blow colder faster than that. After a couple of minutes though it blows really cold and stays that way.

Have about 2,200 miles on it.

aldan93 · August 2003

The switch either works or it doesn't, on or off, its either open or closed. Thats what a switch does, so if no AC at all, the switch is bad or open! LOL at 69k, try some walmart special 134A LUBE/refrige, this keeps the system well lubricated and pressure up!!

gam2 · August 2003

Scott: Where did you get that formula for torque?
At 5250 rpm torque would equal HP, something that does not apply to the triplets or most high revving engines. I think you really need to see an actual torque curve to see what the differences are. Many mods that help high rpm HP actually hurt lower rpm torque.

GAM

redline65 · August 2003

LOL iexplore2000! Here is my ranking, from best to worst:

1. Envoy
2. Bravada
3. Envoy XL
4. Ascender
5. Trailblazer
6. Trailblazer EXT
7. Rainier

bradrx7 · August 2003

... and replaced it with an '03 TB EXT V8!!!!!
- no more wandering mirrors
- no more tiny 18 gallon gas tank
- no more towing my track car in third
- no more choppy towing because a short wheelbase
I wish this had been available when I got my LTZ two years ago. This is MUCH more like it. My dealer was very cool and we swapped my LTZ's black grill insert for the EXT's 'chrome' one. It looks good. Plus, with $4,500 back I lowered my payments.

scottc454 · August 2003

My formula is correct. Well, it's actually 5252.
Torque always equals horsepower at 5252 RPM's.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm

tlauro · August 2003

so then how does the L67, 240hp S/C GM 3.8l motor produce 285lbs or torque and 240hp at 5200 rpm's?

somehow the formula can't be applicable across the charts.

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/engines_cartruck/other/- 38l67_torque.htm

bradrx7 · August 2003

tlauro asked:

"so then how does the L67, 240hp S/C GM 3.8l motor produce 285lbs or torque and 240hp at 5200 rpm's? somehow the formula can't be applicable across the charts."

That chart you showed is from the advertising department and may not even be the same dyno pull. The HP and torque bands do cross at 5250rpms on a dyno chart. It is math magic.

dielectric7bb · August 2003

The chart has TWO y-axis to correlate torque vs. horsepower. This is why hp and torque do not appear to cross at the same locale.

gam2 · August 2003

I'll admit it, I was wrong. The science behind it says this formula is correct. You'll never prove it on a diesel though. Most don't get close to 5252 rpm! Ha ha ha.

GAM

bobj11 · August 2003

I have a 2002 Bravada for which I would like to get some running boards. I have seen the boards that GM offers but I prefer a style that looks more "integrated" into the fenders and I would like them painted to match the truck as well.

Has anyone installed some good aftermarket running boards on their triplets that would be of this style?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

dse1 · August 2003

perfectly valid for the diesels too. the 5252 is JUST a conversion for the units (HP = torque * rpm *convrsion factor). for the duramax6.6l, the torque drops QUICKLY (faster than RPM) beyond about 3k (where HP starts to drop), so 3k/5252*500lb*ft = about 300 HP... the duramax page has a simple chart of the HP and torque... if you took each point on the torque curve and multiplied it by the rpm for that point and divide by 5252 you'd produce the HP curve exactly...

the jetchip page claimed 246 HP stock on the dyno... someone posted 1yr+ ago that they tested theirs at 190HP????

kenym · August 2003

Bob check out http://www.boards4less.com/20buicrenpar.html
~Ken

joealfer · August 2003

We have had our 2003 Trailblazer for 5 weeks and we have also started to notice the intermittent AC problems noted by many others in this forum. The service manager at our dealership here in Ohio says that they have seen the problem before.

Other than that, I must say that this is by far the nicest SUV we've ever owned. We previously had a 95 Jeep Grand Cherokee and a 96 Chevy Blazer. We had numerous problems with the Grand Cherokee's V8 engine and traded it in on the Blazer after only a year. Then our third child was born and we needed the third seat so we traded the Blazer in on a minivan after only a year. We've been waiting for at least 5 years for someone to build an SUV with three seats, (at least one smaller than the Expedition/Yukon/Suburban.

All in all, we're very satisfied with this vehicle.

hardhawk · August 2003

Star Running Boards in Kansas City makes high quality painted to match running boards. I think they have a web site. I have seen a number of their products and they all look very nice. Check them out. www.starboards.com

oldsman01 · August 2003

I'm not trying to make this a debate between the two, but did anyone seriously cross shop the Explorer with the TB(or Envoy)? Also, have some of the problems thats early models had been fixed? The reason I ask is I am sort of considering a new vehicle to replace my lemon 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue and I am actually considering an SUV. I looked at the TB and Envoy back in the summer of 01 when I bought the Intrigue and loved them, but at the time there were no discounts to be had. Now, they seem to have some pretty decent discounts on them. My likely choice would be a Trailblazer LT moderately equipped. Anyone lease one of these SUVs and if so, what kind of deal did you get? I had never considered the Explorer until a co-worker of mine had one as rental and I checked it out and was fairly impressed. Also, the automotive press seems to really love it's IRS. My initial impression between the two is that GM wins hands down in the powertrain department and the Ford seems to have better quality interior materials. Since I haven't seriously shopped either vehicle, thats pretty much it for my impressions so far.

gam2 · August 2003

Not sure what the hype about Explorers IRS is. Most magazine agree the Triplets ride and handle better than the Ford. They are also better off road. The IRS does allow for a third seat without raising the roof and stretching it to limo size however.

GAM

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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