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My apologies if I strayed too far off the path.
http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/search_results.pl?make=Chev- rolet&model=Trailblazer
-Mark
Unfortunately, product management pressures are the same in every industry of our greedy world. Perhaps the GM executives and quality managers would like to unknowingly beta test some medical equipment...
Chinese made products are inferior to those made in most other industrialized Asian nations. They're about where Japan was in the 50's, quality-wise. Their socio-economic system produces low quality products for all the obvious reasons. If you have kids, you have doubtless seen the countless toys that don't work right out of the box on Christmas morning. It's all Chinese junk.
And as far as Chinese people go, of course they're made just fine. :-)
At least it would get the PETA people off the backs of medical researchers who now have to conduct tests on animals.
ross1962, That's is exactly what they said in the 60's about Japanese cars, look where they are now. The electronics industry is manufacturing many of the products you use now in southeast Asia. You shouldn't equate lower paid employees with low quality products. They can work for $2.00 per day and be considered well off. I don't condone shipping our work overseas, but WE have no control over that. But we can't demand cheaper "things" (Wal Mart) and higher pay to make them HERE.
Why did Pres. W's brother Neil feel he had to go to China to manufacture his electronics? Couldn't he have set up in Texas and gotten better quality? TBLAZED knows electronics, he could have helped Neil. I think we will have to accept that there will no longer be many things genuinely MADE IN U.S.A.
I read a post back on Dec.27,2003 indicating that they have euro tail lights installed on their black envoy. Compared to the OEM tail lights do you like them and do they resemble the trailblazer tail lights?
If you have a pic please post. Thanks
Within 15 miles of my house here, we have Texas Instruments, Nokia, NEC, Hitachi, Raytheon, among others, manufacturing electronics daily. Plus the GM assembly plant in Arlington about 20 miles from here that employs about 3,000 people, who probably don't mind too much where the parts come from, assembling those parts from all over the world to build Chevy Tahoes, Cadillac Escalades, and GMC Yukons. When Delphi (GM) and Visteon (Ford) switch over to manufacturing electrical car parts in China, then you will start seeing Made in China on various parts in "American" vehicles. So much for those "UK" built headlights on my Trailblazer!
Can someone point me to the TSB for the front end noise issue? I have the clunking loose sound and want to see if teh dealer still covers it. I am out of warranty but hoping they fix it for nothing. If they dont does anybody know how much this repair will run?
I have a 2003 Envoy Sle that was purchased and manufactured Jan.'2003.
Well, as of yesterday I was experiencing a shuddering or rattle like sound once driving over small bumps or uneven pavement. It was determined once taken to the GMC service department that both the right and left stabilizer links were broken. That's right broken.. I was informed that several other Envoys has been brought in experiencing the same problem. Now, they have been replaced with new ones that do not even resemble the original ones. Per the service writer....Good thing still under warranty....
Sorry, for the long post hopefully the info will assist others...
As for your comments on about fuel consumption I am getting similar #s to you while in 4wd up here in Barrie it definitely sucks the fuel.
"Check the model they use in your military for windchill. You should find that it is the same as ours (I think we have an army somewhere?) .here you go."
Later Leopardmech
tblazed Dec 21, 2003 11:23am
These pics are of N7DON's Envoy. These are the only aftermarket Envoy tail lights I have seen so far.
leopardmech, of course we have an army somewhere (and welcome aboard). Actually I think there might be more armor in the Hummer section of this board though? I thought eventually someone might chime in. I was at a hockey game in Barrie a couple weeks ago. Barrie could definitely taken on Buffalo for the most snow. There is so much snow piled up you can’t see traffic around the drifts when making a turn! I never saw any pavement the whole time I was there. I bet your in 4hi most of the time. My Envoy groans a bit (in 4hi) from the front end if you really crank it over. It also tends to plow to the outside of the corner as well if you push it. Not a problem though.
Also, I noticed the euro -lights do not appear to fit snuggly to the body like the original tail lights. What is done to eliminate possible water or other elements from getting in between the gaps? Please advice. Thanks
watchdog2, the fit to the body is on par with the OE units and the actual bulb cavity is sealed. You take the 3 bulb assembly out of the OE unit and install in the euro unit.... about 15 mins. for both sides.
They can be disassembled for painting as 01_hoe has done. The match between the black on the euro unit and the black trim on the Envoy isn't perfect but acceptable. I haven't decided yet whether to paint to match the vehicle. They're ok as is and it's not a reversible process.
Thanks
BTW those Envoy tail lights are known as "Altezza" on eBay..
You'd think GM would have set it up to keep the headlights OFF until the engine is actually running. Just when you need cranking amps the most, and the headlights are on.
The noise/clunking comes up through the steering wheel, as well.
I had taken it in a few months ago to have it checked out, along with some other things. The dealer said they had to order some part having to do with the steering shaft.
I haven't had time to take it back, but I aim to do so this week. I will let you know my results.
Thanks
Neat trick. I'll give it a try and see if it makes any difference. I am starting to believe we do have a problem with the trailblazer. I'll take it in this week and have it checked.
"You'd think GM would have set it up to keep the headlights OFF until the engine is actually running. Just when you need cranking amps the most, and the headlights are on."
I agree completely. It makes no sense to me.
Thanks
BTW in DRL mode the low beams are running 70% duty cycle. These are 55W rated lamps (X2). In DRL mode they draw about 6A. At 100% "full on" they draw about 8.5 Amps (at 13 Volts). If the battery voltage drops down to 10-11 V because of the temperature, that current drain would be about 10A. If you are in a borderline battery charge state situation from sitting a few days in 0° temps, that 10A could make the difference between starting or not.
--Jay
Another thing to consider is the inrush current of the headlights. Every time they turn on from a cold start, the inrush current is about 10X the normal running current. That lasts only a fraction of a second, but that inrush current can shorten the life of the bulbs, ( don't most bulbs burn out when you first turn them on?) and my point here is, why even have the lights on in the first place while cranking the engine? The computer could be programmed to NOT turn on the automatic headlights until the engine is actually running.
Why worry about that .1%?
I can think of millions of more important things to worry about than inrush currents, bulb life,
and what not. Do you honestly think there will be a time when you can't start your truck because the lights turned on too soon?
I think the one time I had it happen possibly could have been caused, at least in part, by the headlights coming on first. I usually pause between on and start to let the fuel pump run a second or two. When it failed to crank (headlights on), I put a 10A charger on the batt for less than 10 min and was then able to get the TB started. It took very little charge to get enough back to crank it and start. Hard to say exactly. But definitely a borderline situation on the state of charge of the battery that time anyway.
This discussion started out when I mentioned pulling up the park brake handle a click before start to keep the headlights off during cranking. No big deal. Do it or don't. It costs "0" to do this. My concern, in my case, and the reason I do it, is the headlights unnecessarily coming on in the daytime, every day, sometimes several times a day, when I am in the garage. Just unnecessary wear on the bulbs, that are are going to turn off within a half-minute when I pull out. At $10-20 ea. for bulbs, depending whether you go stock or a premium bulb like Silverstars, I prefer to keep the bulb life available for when I need it - at night.
Yes scott I do. I believe I'm in that 0.1% that tblazed is talking about. The thread "re: lights on when cranking..." is a continuation of the thread "daytime running lights help needed here". Scroll up and get the entire story.
In short, I think I've got a problem with my trailblazer. I came to this forum seeking advice, as most 0.1%er's have done in the past. These forums are a great resource.
Thanks to everyone for their help. I'll let you know what happened at the dealer.
It's not GM's fault because they didn't program it to wait until the engine is running to turn on whatever lights come on. If they did that, it would merely delay the inevitable (and annoy those of us who like the lights when finding the truck in a parking lot at night)
I came to this forum seeking advice
My advice is to get that battery checked out :^)
I think when the warranty passes I'll modify the parking brake circuit with a switch to kill the pre-start headlights.
In short the tech. manager everything is working fine. He agreed that I should use the parking brake to eliminate pre-start drl's. Thanks
also, describing normal battery drain as "parasitic drain" may be confusing to some. All newer cars will have a minute battery current drain when the car is not running. This is by design, the clock and other devices must be kept on. Parasitic drain would imply something other than that which was designed into the car. If you live near the ocean, salt spray may cause a small current to flow between battery terminals. If your car has a parasitic drain on the battery, it should be investigated.
BTW, I was once told-and maybe ficuss or tblazed can confirm or debunk this as a myth-that setting your parking brake regularly extends the disk brake pistons and keeps them from rusting. Its plenty flat here in SE Wisconsin but I always set the parking brake out of habit and in hopes that I am doing a good thing for the disk brakes.
Ready to be debunked...
Chris
Todd
One humorous anecdote; When we first got the Envoy, there was a rattling sound in the roof near the storage compartment. The dealer tried 3 times to fix it. I took the compartment off and wedged a tennis ball up there and the rattle stopped. The ball has been in the roof now for almost 3 years and maybe someday, someone repairing or salvaging the vehicle will discover it and wonder.