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Comments
Rick
And yes, it could be worse.
BTW, orange peel is not a bad thing, but it needs to be consistent across the vehicle.
I agree that the orangepeel is not that bad. It is consistent over the entire truck.
Happy TrailBlazin!!!
No slam or anything, but it's crystal clear. I grew up in a family that GM Dealerships so believe me, I know what orange peel is. Bad in the 80's for sure.
tim
The visors and bug guard I have came from the dealer...GM Brand Accessories. I got my TB in June and wanted them right away so I didn't shop around. Love them though. The vents attach with mounting tape that is already installed and very strong. They won't pull off without a pry bar...even on hot days. Had them on previous cars too. Nothing shows through....very nice.
tim
Basically the vehicle has a 65% 35% split at all times, but can transfer over 90% of the torque to the front wheels if needed. A good example is pulling a boat out of water. Get your rear wheels wet and the spin...down you could go. The bravada would actually transfer the torque up front and pull you out. The TB and GMC are just auto 4x4's. Once the slippage in the rear is detected, the transfer case locks and shifts to a 50% 50% mode within 100rpm. Lightening fast basically.
On the Bravada the locking rear differential senses wheel slippage (loss of traction or not having a good grip on the ground) and automatically locks the rear axle shafts together so they rotate at the same speed. (Option on TB and GMC) This occurs only at speeds under 20 m.p.h. and when there is a 100 revolutions per minute (rpm) difference in the speed between the right and left axles. This system adjusts the action so that the vehicle delivers the same amount of power to both rear wheels, improving traction and keeping the vehicle moving forward even in slippery conditions.
Finally the all-wheel drive transfer case provides instant traction with the help of a unique technology called a "viscous-clutch." When a wheel begins to slip, plates in the clutch interact with a silicone-based fluid. The fluid thickens, creating resistance against the plates. Torque increases as resistance increases. The increased torque is transferred to the wheels enhancing traction thus allowing the driver to get a better grip on the road and maintain control of the vehicle.
SmartTrak differentiates the Bravada from other four-wheel-drive vehicles in its class through its ability to sense separate levels of wheel spin. It automatically adjusts on its own, distributing power and traction to the other wheels to compensate for the difference. Accomplishing the same adjustment in one of the Bravada's competitors, the driver manually switches from two- to four-wheel drive while also locking and unlocking the differential manually. SmartTrak knows what to do on its own, without driver input.
In reality, a 4x4 can sit on ice and spin three wheels since very few vehicles can lock the front axel to spin all 4....Land Rover I think offers this, but then you are limited to driving straight....but then like 4x4LO...you most likely won't be doing anything requiring turns...no a smart thing to try anyway. AWD like Smart track though would shift power all over. Kinda like in Jurassic Park II...the Mercedees SUV has a great system too. Not sure of the specs, but you can see the affect in the movie.
Sorry to go on, but I've been through my fair share of technical classes and what not on the systems via ride-n-drive comparisons throughout my life in the car business. Detroit proving grounds are fun places
tim
Portions of the above were borrowed form a review not written by me.
Rick
Indigo Blue, med. pewter int. with 1SH pkg, sunroof and running boards.
Didn't really want the running boards. If anyone wants them, make me an offer. I am in the Seattle area so you will have to figure out how to get them to you.
-John.
More here.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
ENVOY: http://www.manik.com/images/2002%20GMC%20Envoy-PR.jpg
TB: http://www.manik.com/images/2002%20Chevy%20Trailblazer-PR.jpg
http://www.autosupermart.com/shopcart/piaa/piaawhitebulbs.html
http://www.autosupermart.com/shopcart/solaris/solaris.html
MUCH better lighting-- whiter light, (not blue or "HID LOOK") greater distance and slightly wider lowbeam. Give them a try.. worse case, you just return them. Someone had mentioned getting a set of Philips Ultravision bulbs, but I couldn't find anyplace that sold them.
For more information about aftermarket halogen bulbs, check out the Aftermarket halogen bulbs discussion topic in the Aftemarket & Accessories message board. Edmunds.com also has an article called Light up the night.
Unfortunately even with different bulbs you may not be able to improve much since it is largely dictated by headlamp reflector design. The Trailblazer's much smaller low beam headlamp reflector than the Envoy is probably why its beam pattern may be poorer.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Regarding ANYTHING that ANY car magazine says about comfort, convenience, or "lack of performance" - They are NOT interested in what the average car owner thinks about their driving experience. They judge things relative to the small percentage who view their autos as extensions of their childhood pride and "race-car" mentality.
Remember, these are same folks who for years bad-mouthed Chevy for the column shifter in the Blazer. So much so that GM finally moved all the shifters to the floor (except for a few ultra-luxo exceptions) so that we all have to deal with consoles littered with shifters instead of useable cup holders, cubbies, etc. Of course the small percentage who actually try to drive their automatics by shifting manually only do so a small percentage of the time.
Backwards thinking at it's finest.
With that said, the air suspension on the Bravada is absolutely perfect for this vehicle. It's a luxury SUV and handles like it. It's very stable and very comfortable for all occupants. Anyone who says its ride is "pillowy" could only be comparing it to a corvette with the sport suspension or some other such vehicle.
Regarding the grill that is by the drivers head. There seems to be much confusion over it. I had one in my 2000 Jimmy that had no on-star and it definitely is NOT a speaker. The mic for the On-star is on the upper console next to the speaker for the recorder (if you happen to have that) I believe it is either a microphone for the auto-volume control for the stereo or a sensor for the climate control. That would explain why some have it and some do not.(climate control)
If you wanted a vehicle to cruise around drinking coffee in, consider one that advertises the benefits of 12 unique cupholders in each location. Lots of them out there.
Remember what these vehicles were designed to do and be pleased that they do it so well while providing significant improvements in handling and comfort at the same time.
What I'm getting at is an automatic transmission lever is purely functional item and should be treated as such.
The simple fact is a manual transmission is the smartest choice for both towing and off-roading yet they didn't make that available. Why? Because only a small percentage of buyers would actually want this vehicle with a manual transmision because only a small percentage need it.
The gear lever position in no way reflects what auto manufacturers think the consumer wants. It reflects their wanting to make the automobile magazine test drivers happy. Period.
This kind of "small thinking" is very prevailant today and is very disheartening. In my own office building the bathrooms were built with no exhaust fans so that "if someone "lit-up" in there it would be hard to hide". So in otherwords, a definite, unavoidable odor problem was created in order to prevent a "what-if", inconsistant problem.
We all may like a floor shifter for whatever reason but when you look at the unusable cup holders in these vehicles (and yes, I would dare to say 100% of these vehicles have had a drink in them) there is just no excuse for wasting the console space with it.
I disagree that the cupholders are unusable. I use them all the time...albeit the front left one is limited to the ashtray (money storage).
I think the shifter is on the floor because people feel it's more sporty. Or it could be cheaper to manufacture with a floor shifter.
More troubling to me is that my "service engine soon" light came on at 500 miles. Manual says put in 87 octane gas, salesman at dealer said "nah, go right ahead and use 85". I always used 91 octane for the Olds I had before this....and it lasted 16 years and still would be around if not for an accident that totalled it. Point being, I was experimenting with different octanes. Obviously, with the price of gas, cheaper would be nicer! Costco gas only offers 85 or 91. So, first fill up was with 91, then I filled up with 85. The light came on soon after that. OK, I figured that was the problem. So next, I blended them.....(Insert 2 cards, wait for all the little messages, fill to what I thought was about half a tank, then did it all over again with the other octane). Light didn't go off. So, time to take it in.
I bought the car 50 miles away (drive time--1 1/2 hours) with the full assurance from the dealership and the Olds website that any GM dealer would service my car. Took the car in to a Pontiac dealership that I can walk home from and they told me they wouldn't touch it unless I bought it from them. (Duh, they don't sell Oldsmobiles!)
Called the 1 of only 2 Olds dealerships in my metro area of over 2 million and the service guy said that was correct. I have to take it to a "branded" dealership. Unfortunately, I can't walk from there to anywhere....not a nice part of town to spend 8 hrs while your car is being checked out.
The Olds service guy said that because the Bravada is not going to be phased out until at least 2004, I have to take it to an Olds dealership. That was certainly not what I heard when I bought the car. Feel like I've been cheated somehow....I still think the car is great except for that pesky light which probably means nothing, anyway. And I'd totally ignore it except it might put the warrenty in jeopardy.
As this relates to the Trailblazer, the reason the shifter is on the floor is because that's where the customer clinics told the designers to put it. I have heard the opposite comment from people who don't like where the shifter is on the Rendevous, (it is on the column!!). I guess it once again proves out the theory that you can't please all of the people all of the time. "Nuf Said!
If you could answer two questions, my life would be complete: Why do you have to purchase the OnStar option (about $900+ dollars) if you want a sunroof on a TB LS? Why does GM paint the bodyside moulding on an TB LS, not paint it on a TB LT, and then paint it on the TB LTZ? On every other GM product, painted body side mouldings are limited to the upper scale model (look at the Tahoe, LS does not paint the body side mouldings, but the LT does....as you would expect since painting is more labor and materials for the more expensive LT model). I think someone was smoking something illegal when they decided on the LS vs. LT paint options on the TB.
Also, it appears GM was listening to it's customers through the customer clinics....listening to what customers want is a far cry from deferring to the auto magazine "experts". While I don't always agree with the auto experts critiques I certainly do believe the primary focus of a business is to listen to it's customers. In this case GM did and I think this is the significant point not to be missed.
This is not meant as critizism of the truck, as only a few have had some of these issues.
Thanks to all of you for posting this information over the last several months.
-----------------------------------------
ISSUES TO LOOK AT WHEN PICKING UP OR ‘DOWN THE ROAD’.
1. Loose headliner. Held on by Velcro. Tends to vibrate when sunroof is open.
2. Missing screws on front license plate holder.
3. Loose center console. Missing screws that hold it in place.
4. Weather seal around doors loose. Not glued. Comment: The dealer's service director told me "we had to trim about 1mm off the rear weather-stripping (on the door jamb, not the door) because it seems that they are too big".
5. Missing paint on door handles.
6. Front air dam not properly attached.
7. Front wheel wells not anchored to the fender. There are holes all along the lip of the fender, but no fasteners in the holes.
8. Missing air filter indicator. See page 6-16 in manual to locate.
9. Check oil level.
10. Windshield seal molding is loose. Can detach while driving.
11. Third brake light lower seal to glass (taped) may be loose or could come loose. Cover over third brake light is lifting up off glass.
12. Rear doors out of alignment.
13. Power seat stopped working.
14. Bad seal on rear window.
15. Driver door panel was loose and had to be fastened.
16. Paint at bottom of the gate had a number of chips right at the seam.
17. Loose front fascia/bumper.
18. The drivers seat does not go back to the original position after the 'easy exit' feature is on.
19. The driver’s door would not open. It worked from inside but you can't open it from the outside.
20. The boot covering the parking brake lever came loose from the floor with a slight tug.
21. Missing plastic covers over the front seat mountings on the floor.
22. Gritty substance under the paint in the doorjambs.
23. Check tires pressure for proper amount. Has been too high from dealer.
24. Chipped paint around the large plastic license plate surround.
25. Hatch strap on rear door broke. Seems flimsy.
26. On Star rearview mirror making a high-pitched squeal. Made it go away by squeezing the right side of the mirror (pushing the back housing into the front trim like you're trying to snap the mirror back together). You'll know you're squeezing the right place because the squeal gets much louder when it's squeezed. Let go and it goes away (or lessens in volume). If yours isn't squealing, DON'T GO MESSING AROUND ON YOUR MIRROR. It could start the squealing, and trust me; you don't want to hear the squealing.
27. Leather upholstery is bubbled out where it goes under the outside of the seat in the rear passenger seats.
ISSUES TO LOOK FOR WHEN DRIVING
1. Buzzing from speakers when instrument panel lights are on. Possible Fix: replace wires with shielded ones.
2. Needed to have the driver's side outside mirror assembly replaced because at night time, the auto-dimming feature would produce a very distorted image.
3. Gauges all pegging to the right. Fix#1: computer issue (supposedly GM knows about it and will be working on a software fix) Fix#2: relay was not fully installed in its socket. Pushed it in and it seems to be OK for now. Fix#3: The mechanic checked the codes and says it is the "Body Module".
4. Oil a quart low after driving 2000 miles.
5. Loose wire in headliner makes noise while driving. TSB issued. DIY Fix: The rattle in the headliner also could not be fixed so I did it myself by removing the compartments and stuffing foam up in the roof and around the wires.
6. Needs front-end alignment.
7. Tires need balancing.
8. Mushy brakes. Air in lines. Need to be bled.
9. Low fuel light comes on at 1/4 full.
10. Transmission seems to drag when it shifts into high gear. It starts its shift into high gear at 35 mph and completes the shift at 40 mph. It just seems that it takes forever to complete the shifting.
11. When driving on the highway and the vehicle is usually over 55mph, under certain conditions after accelerating and easing off on the gas petal, a vibration is felt under the floorboard through the petal. Also felt it from the passenger seat. It's happened under different road conditions, and there seems to be no loss of vehicle power.
12. Engine races at a very high rpm. The dealer replaced a module he said would correct this, but after only 2 days the car stalled and the engine raced.
13. Striker plates on both rear doors needed adjustment, causing rattles.
14. Driver’s door making a loud banging noise when going over a bump. Seems like a door guide is bad or something wrong with a hinge.
15. The center console was loose and squeaking. Fixed by disassembling the console, putting felt where things rubbed together, and putting loctite on the screws. Squeaking is gone.
16. Black trim on exterior of doors fading.
17. On a left-hand U-turn, with the wheel turned all the way left and brakes lightly applied, heard an intermittent grinding noise coming from the right front tire area. Service dept said parts needed to be greased. Once they greased the joints, the noise went away and everything's been fine since.
18. Luggage rack latch-wouldn't stay latched, they replaced the whole bar and that fixed it.
19. Tinny, audible sound coming from the dash where it meets the windshield, this sound can be heard on every little bump in the road.
20. About 5 times in the last week the transmission seems to be stuck in 1st, the engine just revs up and there is little power until I put the gear shift into 3rd to correct it.
21. The visible filler gasket that is supposed to catch spilled gas is badly cracked (4 months old), it looks like 5 years old.
22. After a "long" hill climb, it seems that the engine lost some of its pick-up and go.
23. The check engine light has come on at 500 and 1100 miles, and then goes off by the next day.
24. Cruising down the interstate at 70-75 with cruise control on, come up on some slow moving traffic and you pull out to pass, stepping on the gas (with the cruise control still on) increasing your speed to get around, take your foot off the gas pedal and it turns the cruise control off.
25. Scratches in the driver's window from going up and down. There are two scratches now from the bottom to the top of the window as if the window were scraping against something inside the door.
26. Coolant sensor failures have happened to several trucks.
---------------------------------------------
RECALLS
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 01V158000
Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:CONSOLE (8/82)
Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Year: 2002 Make: GMC Model: ENVOY Recall Date: 05/22/2001
Type of Report: Vehicle
Potential Number of Units Affected: 8197
Defect Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: CERTAIN SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES FAIL TO COMPLY WITH REQUIREMENTS OF FMVSS NO. 201, "OCCUPANT PROTECTION IN INTERIOR IMPACTS." THESE VEHICLES HAVE A CONSOLE COVER/ARMREST LID LATCH THAT COULD RELEASE AT LESS THAN THE 10G VERTICAL LOAD REQUIREMENT OF THE STANDARD.
Consequence Summary:
IN THE EVENT OF A CRASH, THE CONSOLE COVER COULD OPEN AND THE COVER OR ITEMS STORED UNDER IT COULD INJURE AN OCCUPANT.
Corrective Summary:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE CONSOLE LATCH MECHANISM AND INSTALL A STRIKER PLATE.
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 01V283000
Component: POWER TRAIN:TRANSFER CASE (4-WHEEL DRIVE)1
Manufacturer: GENERAL MOTORS CORP.
Year: 2002 Make: GMC Model: ENVOY Recall Date: 09/18/2001
Type of Report: Vehicle
Potential Number of Units Affected: 895
Defect Summary:
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES (4 WHEEL-DRIVE). SOME OF THESE VEHICLES WERE BUILT WITH A RANGE SHIFT COLLAR IN THE TRANSMISSION TRANSFER CASE THAT CONTAINS CRACKS.
Consequence Summary:
THIS CONDITION COULD RESULT IN A COMPLETE FRACTURE OF THE RANGE SHIFT COLLAR AND SUBSEQUENT LOSS OF VEHICLE FORWARD AND REVERSE GEARS, AND THE INABILITY TO MAINTAIN "PARK" POSITION. THIS INCREASES THE RISK OF A VEHICLE CRASH RESULTING FROM UNINTENDED MOVEMENT OF A PARKED VEHICLE.
Corrective Summary:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE TRANSFER CASES AND UPDATE THE CONTROL MODULE CALIBRATION.
TIPS
1. Move the front crossbar of the luggage rack toward the back until it is even with the back of the rear doors. This is supposed to reduce the wind noise
2. You can reset the Oil Change Light by turning the key to ON and fully depressing the gas pedal three times within five seconds.
3. The daytime running lights come on as soon as the shifter is moved out of park ... they can be defeated by pressing the courtesy light override 4 times.
4. There is a little bar with holes that pops up when the sunroof is retracted. Found that it seems quieter when bar is held down so it doesn't catch the wind.
5. If you have the DIC system you have two trip odometers. To see them press the "odo" button on the steering wheel (not the one on the instrument panel), it's the one that is on the left top (above the one for fuel data).
6. There is a way to store the CDs so you can read the labels on the ends. Turn the CD so the label end faces up. Put the CD in the slot at the back, and let the front of the CD drop down, the CD will rest against the front of the console at a slight angle, and you can read it. It is almost easier to get the CD into the one slot in back, than it is to get it in both.
That's a GREAT summary! I'm glad I won't ever have to read back through all those posts.
Post 2450/2451 is the mother of all posts.
thx.
1. You do need to shift when going up hills, down hills etc. However, this can easily be done with the column shifter. I often used my Blazer in Tahoe and would spend a considerable amount of time shifting. I feel the "feel" of the shift is much more precise with the column shifter.
2. Maybe the people they surveyed did want console mounted shifters but I have to wonder: Who did they ask? What was their (consumer) motivation?
I actually think it's sickening how we (consumers) have become so dependant on our vehicles showing how "young" and "sporty" we are. I see to many "young" and "sporty" people acting like idiots and killing themselves and their friends and I don't have any desire to be "mistaken" for one of them.
The problems we have with insurance/being male/being single is that we have too many people trying to make a statement that they are "cool" with their vehicles instead making the statement that they are "smart" with their vehciles.
I'm not, by any means, saying we should all drive stripper cars - I know I wouldn't want a non-luxurious car - but in all reality a vehicle is something to get us around in - hopefully safely. To many people are worried about their "sporty image" and now worried enough about their driving.
It would be nice to see the manufacturers and auto magazines acknowledge that there are a lot of us out there who are auto enthusiasts that couldn't care less if we could "beat the other guy off the line" or "look our sportiest".
The simple fact is, regardless of what their panelists state, the column shifter makes the most sense for a vehicle with an automatic transmission that is made for UTILITY and is not trying to conjure up some image of youth for the people who drive it.
These user groups, while useful, tend to contain more complaints than praise. That goes for any user review of anything on the internet. People are more likely to post a complaint on something than a praise. I prefer to think that for everyone with an issue, there are 10 or more out there that everything is perfect for.
That being said, there is as much or more praise on this board for the trucks than complaints. Try reading every post in one evening and you will see.
The information I posted was a summary of complaints only. Not everyone has these issues and if someone does have one, they don't have them all. These are just things to look out for. First year model issues, early adopter syndrome, etc.
Why did I buy?
Well, 0% and GMO/GMS are two reasons. But I did look into Ford since I qualify for the E plan. I also looked at Toyota and Nissan. Frankly, all vehicles have issues and while there was some quality difference in the 80's, I belive that it is all in our heads now. American vehicles match up well to the imports now. Yes, there are some lemons from time to time, but that is not a US thing. I have seen plenty of imports that sucked too.
I almost held out for 2003 to avoid the first year issues and hope for a larger gas tank, but the 0% got me. Also, the Jimmy was getting long in the tooth and would just lose more value the longer I waited.
I'll keep you all posted on my new owner impressions. Thanks again for all the info.
-John
With the radio being integrated into the truck so much, via OnStar and such, I cannot see replacing it. I was wondering if there was some adapter on the back to plug in an XM module?
thanks.
-John.
Check out the Crutchfield web site for some XM options. Sony has an add on unit that will plug into the Aux inputs on the Envoy radio. The addition will work in quite well using that option. I am thinking about it but will wait for XM to become available here in the boonies of SE Kansas. Hope you like your new Envoy as much as we love ours!!
I really don't look to any of the industry publications for information as to whether or not a vehicle is right for me. I really only use them to gather facts (interior specs, exterior specs, etc.). I absolutely love my Bravada and everyone who sees it compliments it. If I weren't a tried and true GM guy, I might balk at the repair records but since no other manufacturer pleases my sense of style in vehicles, that is a small negative that is usually taken care of through warranty.
I was told by someone how to fix this myself but since the only tools I have are for home repair, I decided I didn't want to go tearing up my car. Anyway, that fixed it.
Also, I found out why my engine "knocks" so much. I decided to educate myself on the way engines work. One of the negatives of having a large displacement/small (#) cylinders arrangement is that the size of each cylinder grows (hence the displacement). When the cylinders are very large you often get multiple explosions on compression which results in "pinging" or "knocking". My dealer told me that they only get about 1/2 of the people complaining about it. He seemed to think that GM probably should have suggested at least 89 octane for these vehicles.
I've started using 89 octane and the noise has decreased dramatically.
the front one being interfered with by the shifter. Hey, it holds my beer
can perfectly!
Seriously, in regard to the console shifter, I like to drive in third when in stop and
go traffic or when travelling in the mountains. I find the console shifter much better
for this. It's not an issue of sportiness at all.
Anyway, it's not about me and it's not even about what's better.
It's a very simple issue of marketing.
Sure there's people who prefer a column shifter. Those people are in the minority.
I don't know what more needs to be said about this.
I personally think a 5 speed would work wonders with this engine, but alas, I'm in the
minority here.
I did note that the weather stripping on the rear doors is not glued down, but the dealer said it is normal. I guess I can glue it myself.
Also, the different nozzels for the air compressor are missing. And, KBB lists a rear cargo mat as standard equip. but the dealer says it is not.
I have noticed that while driving, the car will change lanes very quickly. I guess I am not used to such responsive steering. Also, the air suspension is so soft that I fell like I am floating down the road. I'm sure these are just subjective things that I will get used to.
The engine/trans is still learning my style of driving so it does not seem to shift where I want it to yet, but that will come with time.
Cupholders work for me. The front one holds a 16oz water bottle or a double tall latte just fine. ;-)
Steering seems to be a touch off center to the left. Should be an easy one to fix.
They quoted me about $1900 for a 6yr/75k ext. warrenty through GM. Has anyone gotten a better deal?
Thanks for the XM info, BTW.
-John.