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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • rjsnyder2krjsnyder2k Member Posts: 10
    Jim, no cutting at all! It attaches via black painted butterfly mollies. You can go back to stock by reversing the process with no evidence of it being installed. The link is

    http://www.stylinconcepts.com/parts.cfm/partfamilyid/293/categoryid/11/subcategoryid/58


    Part#41272


    The Manufacturer is Carriage Works and you can also research here

    http://www.carriageworksinc.com/trucks.html

  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    Dennis:

    My condolences to you and your mother. What an unfortunate freak accident. That being said, I would urge both you and your mother to calm down and view this accident rationally. Until the facts are known, it is totally unfair to question the safety of these vehicles. Your post illustrates a common thought pattern in today's society-if something bad happens, we have to find someone or preferably some deep pocket company to blame. Many in my profession (law) encourage and feed on that way of thinking. I would suggest that based on the facts contained in your post, the driver of the Envoy did something (or failed to do something) that led to this awful crash. I do not know what vehicle is designed to be crashed sideways into a concrete abutment at highway speed and prevent this type of death and/or injury. No passenger vehicle short of a Sherman tank is going to protect a passenger in that type of crash. The thickness of the fenders and/or door panels is a moot point. Did the door really come open before the Envoy hit anything? That is suprising if the doors were locked. Perhaps the deceased accidently grabbed the door handle while the car was spinning? Did the door coming open, if it did, really make a difference in the outcome of the crash? At that speed and considering what was hit, my guess is probably not. Would a side curtain air bag have made a difference? Once again, considering the speed and what was hit, probably not. We all make a choice when we get behind the wheel to take some risk. I have no qualms about loading my family into my Envoy or any of my other vehicles to go somewhere. It sounds like you drive a lot and do not seem to have had many accidents, if any. Good driving skills like yours are FAR more important than the construction of the vehicle. Tell your mother that you are a good driver and are perfectly safe in your Envoy and that her friend's death was what it was, a freak and terrible accident. Until we are all willing to give up our freedoms and be forced to drive tanks, we all roll the dice every time we drive. If I die at the wheel of my Envoy, at least I will die happy.

    Respectfully,
    The other Dennis D. on this board.
  • 2002blazer2002blazer Member Posts: 5
    Now that the cold and snow have hit Michigan, I have noticed a very loud ticking noise coming from the engine of my 2002 TB LTZ. It doesn't do it all the time but occasionally when it is in Park. Has anyone else been experiencing this? Any explanations? At first I thought it was because the engine was cold but today it started ticking after I pulled in the driveway and got out to get my mail.
  • ducatist4ducatist4 Member Posts: 28
    We have a 20002 Bravada with 9000 miles, and really no problems, besides the wandering mirrors. But in the last two weeks, since it got really cold here in South Dakota, theat loud ticking has developed. Only when it is in park, so far, and the engine is cold. I am thinking of taking it in if it continues.
  • mgrcmmgrcm Member Posts: 53
    I've had the same noise in my Envoy since the day I owned it.When engine is cold just after it comes off high idle into low idle engine starts ticking and knocking.It's really quiet were I live so it's more noticeable.Brought it in for the first service told service manager about it,kept it overnite called up next day and guess what I got the old there's nothing wrong with your engine.It's no wonder there right next to the interstate you couldn't hear the piston fly thru the hood there.Good luck if you bring yours in.

    Rick
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    Well.. In response to Hardhawk:

    I agree whole-heartedly with your response. Of course I am not freaking out about the vehicle, but given the circumstances of the crash and it being my moms best friend and all, she has the RIGHT to freak out and I understand that. Myself on the other hand can remain a little more calmer than my mother and that's what gives me the opportunity to express my concern and request crash test results on this vehicle. Just like I had mentioned in my previous posting, I don't have all the concrete facts as to what happened to cause the crash, but that leaves plenty of room for the imagination to wander if you know what I mean. BUT.. overall, from the first day that I test drove my aunts Trail Blazer, I felt that GM cheapened the vehicle somewhat but did a good job of masking those "cutbacks" by offering an entire slew of "bells and whistles." I don't know much about vehicles when it comes down to structural integrity, but just as some individuals like to "kick the tires" of a new vehicle, I like to knock on the front fender panels and I can remember knocking on the TB's front fender and I thought to myself, "Boy.. they sure make these things sound cheaper than it's predecessor (I had a 97 Olds Bravada) that felt pretty solid. So of course with me still having my 2000 Ford Explorer Limited, when comparing the two, the Explorer's panels have a solid feel to them, in addition to the rest of the vehicle.

    Overall, I am NOT putting down the triplets, but because I am a single young man, I never thought about the crash ratings of these vehicles, whereas for other individuals with children, this could be their #1 concern with any vehicle purchase they consider. Although, with the help of those who responded back to my previous posting, I was able to determine that the triplets were NOT rated to well in regular crash test. I also did a little bit more research myself and the research does confirm that the triplets don't fair too well as some of its competitors did in regular crash testing.

    Additionally, one other area of concern that was brought to my immediate attention. My Envoy SLT has the DVD player and of course it doesn't have the sunroof. I only take my vehicles through the touchless car washes (or hand wash them myself). The FIRST time I took my vehicle through the wash, at the end of the cycle you have to pass through the "SUPER DRYERS." The dryer that covers the roof of the vehicle goes back and forth in a sweeping motion to get the water off of the vehicle, well I ALMOST crapped my pants because when the dryer got past the windshield, it sounded as if the wind force was crushing in the top of the vehicle?? It sounded god awful and somewhat embarrassing! IF anything, it was DEFINITELY flexing the sheet metal on the rooftop. After being through the wash several times now, I am used to it but that leaves me to wonder how much dead space is up there since the dryers can cause the roof to flex in such the manner that it did. Now, on the other hand, I have never owned an SUV (or car for that matter) that has had "roof flexing" when going through this car wash??

    Overall, I DO like the Envoy, but I still think that GM cheapened the vehicles quite a bit in terms of solidness. Just open the hood and look at the flimsy rubber that they placed across the engine compartment below the windshield wipers.. you can easily pick that stuff up with your hand! The older models used rubber strips that were grooved along the sheet metal so that it would stay in place. Same applies to the weather striping that they use around the rear doors, it moves around quite a bit when I am trying to clean those areas with a damp cloth. I often have to align the weather striping before closing the door? Check out the area around your hood release handle! You can see the color of your sheet metal around this area whereas my explorer has insulation around these areas. For a $38,420 vehicle, this honestly should be a NON-ISSUE here. I drove an Acura MDX this past summer and you could see/feel the overall quality of this vehicle, but growing up in a GM town and raised that way, I have always had GM, Ford or Chrysler vehicles. The triplets are nice vehicles.. loaded with plenty of BELLS and WHISTLES in addition to other innovative features, but when it comes down to it, you could sacrifice the bells and whistles in terms of safety and reliability in my eyes! That's just my opinion. Lastly, my dad works at the Saginaw GM factory and as he likes to put it, "the 4200 engine in the triplets is HIS." He works on the team that builds these engines and he works in the Robotics Department. Throughout the build stage of the engine, he mentioned that there has always been an ongoing fight between concerned GM workers and upper management about "rushing the engines out" as opposed to addressing some quality control issues. This shocked me, but I guess as things progressed, they made some changes to address these concerns. This led me to think that they (GM) would rather push these engines out as opposed to addressing quality control issues? Oh well.. just a concerned individual here.. Thanks for listening everyone and as soon as the details unfold as to what happened in the crash, I will let you all know.

    Thanks!

    Dennis D.
  • johnd17johnd17 Member Posts: 1
    If you think the Triplets look cheap and flimsy compared to competitors, watch the 40 MPH frontal offset crash test videos that some kind soul above posted a link to... Some vehicles, particularly the '02 Explorer and the '01 F-150, exhibit horrific deformation and toss the dummy damned near out the window... In comparison, the Trailblazer (there is no Envoy video, which is a pity; I want to see how the side curtain bags work... I don't think the TB has them, does it?) stays pretty solid and keeps the test dummy in a comparatively safe position.
  • quickdtooquickdtoo Member Posts: 266
    A quote from Chevy's TB site:

    "Seat-mounted driver and front-passenger side-Impact Air Bags supplement the safety belt
    system to reduce the risk of certain injuries to
    front-seat occupants in side impacts."

    Side-impact air bags are standard equipment on all Trailblazers although they may not be as good as side curtain air bags.. Tim
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Member Posts: 237
    John,

    I did watch the video footage of the vehicles listed in the link above. For starters, I will NEVER own a Isuzu Rodeo.. the impact at 40 mph and the glass shattering really was an eye-opener to me! Wow! But, the other report listed states that the Ford is in the TOP 5 category whereas the other 6 were rated marginal, including the TB. So.. according to the "experts," the Ford Twins were rated good as compared to the others, and just as quickdtoo said in his post, the TB's had side-impact airbags as well.

    Additionally, since these vehicles all roll off of the same assembly line in Moraine, OH.. I seriously doubt that one will perform better than the other in a crash test because they share the same exterior body parts with exception of the front ends and slightly different designed rear ends. Just my opinion.

    Thanks!

    Dennis D.
  • bobbyclobberbobbyclobber Member Posts: 1
    Just recently purchased a 2002 TB LTZ. I was told by the dealer that only a special oil designed specifically for this new engine could be used. It is a synthetic Mobil GP or something like that, and is good for almost 20000 KM (thats about 12500 miles). These figures sound a little high and you wouldnt normally use synthetic on your engine breakin but the dealer insists that this is the "new way" of doing things and when the oil life reaches 0% bring it in. Anyone else heard something similar.

    Bob
  • medolarkmedolark Member Posts: 93
    I'm supposed to get my new Envoy next week and as part of the paperwork they gave me a little blurb that says you cannot use chains on this vehicle. I even had to sign to indicate I had received a copy. Anybody know what's the story on this? I probably will never go anywhere that I would want to use chains, but up in the sierras you are required to carry them even with 4wd.
  • envoymikeenvoymike Member Posts: 4
    bobbyclobber: The use of "special oil" is new to me; no such stipulations were made by my dealer. The Envoy manual recommends 5W-30 and SAE approved. I changed my oil at 1000 miles and used
    Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30 and a Fram Extra Guard filter; I've been using Mobil 1 for at least 10 years and have never had a problem; using a Fram filter is up for debate but I've never had a problem with them either. Some of GM product line like Vettes come with Mobil 1 Synthetic in them already. By the way; the oil change was easy once you get the routine down. I don't know at what point the "change oil prompt" kicks in and typically change oil at 5000 miles. I hope it kicks in before 0%
  • john339john339 Member Posts: 229
    The 2002 Explorer is the highest rated vehicle in its class according to the Governments crash test as well as a Best Pick in the 40 mph Insurance Institute test.


    With the side curtain air bags, two-stage air bag system, and leading crash test results the Explorer seems like a good vehicle to examine more closely.


    http://media.ford.com/products/press_article_display.cfm?article_id=10498&vehicle_id=239&make_id=92

  • flyguy7flyguy7 Member Posts: 22
    Sorry to hear about the accident. In an earlier post I wrote about the doors flapping when driving over a washboard road. I don't know if this is related, but the dealer said that they fixed this by pushing the door hinge pins in. Please don't jump to conclusions, but has anyone else had this problem and can a few of you look at the door pins to see if they are "loose" or have backed out? The sheet metal in most cars is just that...sheet metal. The frame is what provides the streght in a vehicle and is mostly designed with crumble zone for forward impacts. Has anyone else seen a crashed triplet other then the insurance ones?

    Again sorry for your loss.
  • trout48trout48 Member Posts: 3
    Are the I6 engines really all aluminum, dealer didn't know? Concerned about longevity without some cast iron. Am very serious about buying and need to decide by 1/2/02 when zero financing runs out, although Edmunds lists 1/15/02 as the end??? Read a lot about the problems on this board,would you folks buy again if you had to do over again? Thanks and have a great new year!
  • agentelevenagenteleven Member Posts: 95
    trout48-

    The engines are aluminum but have cast cylinder sleeves. Not an uncommon thing.

    I have heard of at least two people with sleeves that have "slipped" and required total engine replacement.

    It seem to remember a post here that talked of a "ticking" sound before the engine failed and the diagnosis was a loose cylinder sleeve. I may wade through the posts and try to find it.

    I have the ticking in cold weather at idle, too, that some have talked about.

    I guess we'll all find out sooner or later if it's something to worry about.
  • sostroublesostrouble Member Posts: 65
    I knew when buying a first year new style envoy, there would be problems. So far they may sound like alot, but it is nothing compared to the new style Trans Am I bought in 1982. The problems with the Envoy to me have been minor, with maybe the exception of when they took them away from us in the beginning, and I was alittle upset when my battery went dead on Christmas Eve morning.

    Back when I got my Trans Am there was no way to really know what other people were experiencing.
    I had tranmission problems, rear end problems, but the main problem was that the new fuel injection system would fill the air cleaner with gas, the fumes would come in side and make you sick, the tank would build up pressure and sound like fog horn blowing, and if you remove the gas cap with more than a half a tank of gas, the gas would spray out like a garden hose on full blast. The back two spark plugs would foul out about every 4000 miles. The front end was aligned several times, but the tire would still show major wear on the outside edges. I sold the car with 24,000 miles on it. I told the new owner about the problems and told him to transfer the extended warranty, but he didn't. He called me back about 2 months later and told me the engine blew up.

    So the problems so far with my new Envoy seem trivial compared to what I've been though before.
    I would buy the Envoy again. The only thing that I would want different, is a larger gas tank. I'm use to having a 28 gallon tank, and this 18 seems small to me.

    By having this board available, we can all help each other with problems and solutions. We don't have to take what the service technicians tell us, we can questions each other to get problems resolved faster than in the past.

    Debbie
  • hmaximohmaximo Member Posts: 22
    So far I have had a few minor bugs but I expected a few since the model being all new.The I6 makes smooth power and not many SUVs can touch you at Highway speeds if you don't let them.The ride is so much nicer than I ever expected it to be and lets face it who would buy this vehicle for serious off-roading?The 4wd works very well but I would not subject ot to a logging road or mud bog.The best thing for me has been all the looks and comments from people who chose otherwise ;)
  • tpellowtpellow Member Posts: 21
    I am more convinced now than when I bought my TB LTZ that I would buy again. Considering there have been nearly 260,000 units built this year for a brand new body and a brand new engine I'm definitely satisfied with the overall quality and performance that I get to enjoy on a daily basis.

    I'm looking forward to 3 years down the road when I upgrade to the TB EXT.

    Tim
    02 TB LTZ
  • jw4gmjw4gm Member Posts: 27
    trout48,

    My SLE with towing pkg (410 rear end and air suspension) now has 7k miles and is what I tell all who will listen "the perfect vehicle" for me. I would definitely buy it again. I traded in a '99 Bravada, which was not a very good truck, so it's like going from darkness to light. It's given me no problems, consistently averages 18-19 mpg, drives and rides like a dream, and hauls everything I need to haul. I haven't taken a long trip in it yet, but I know it will be a positive experience.

    Take the plunge and enjoy it. Happy New Year.
  • macman246macman246 Member Posts: 118
    I now have 3600 miles on my 2WD Envoy SLT with towing package and 4.10 axle, and no problems yet (knock on simulated wood). I'm very pleased with the power, ride, and comfort. No wandering mirrors, no chipping tailgate paint, no pinging, no rattles or squeeks, no Onstar problems, no Bose problems, no squeeling rearview mirror, and I'm getting 16-17 mpg for mostly city driving. Minor complaints include the small gas tank, a few areas where the fit could be better, some "ozoned" exterior rubber trim around the windows, and the driver's seat moved back all by itself one time after getting gas.

    The headlights could be better, but I replaced them with PIAA Super Platinum bulbs so I have no problems seeing at night now.

    So far, I've been very impressed with this GM product.
  • cwhawkcwhawk Member Posts: 38
    Please review message # 3112 and report if you have had these problems and have attempted to have corrections. Also, what other problems have TB/Envoy owners had?
  • jmw4jmw4 Member Posts: 67
    At 11,000 miles my gas mileage around town dropped to about 12 mpg. It had been a solid 15/20 as stated on the window sticker. I also noticed the shift patterns seemed to be delayed vs. what they had been. The dealer has diagnosed a problem and the main control module will be replaced. The vehicle after the initial recall had been great for 11,000 miles until this latest problem. Hope this isn't the start of more trouble characterized by one of the 1st vehicles sold in a new model year.
  • coolsly2coolsly2 Member Posts: 25
    Just got two problems fixed. Here is what was on the service bill:

    All gauges were pegging to the right: GM Bulletin 797026. Reprogrammed cluster (93)

    Front right squeal: Was to thighten the front false "wing".

    I've done so far 1000 miles this weekend and everything is fine. So if you have this/those problem(s) maybe you'll be happy to know that!

    Sylvain
  • baitisjbaitisj Member Posts: 24
    Hey there:

    I noticed that stipulation about chains, too, when buying my Envoy. I suggest that you look into tire cables. They are probably a suitable traction enhancement device. Most small cars cannot do chains either, so they end up with tire cables.

    Please let us know if you find out that tire cables will work.

    Regards,
    Jeff
  • hmaximohmaximo Member Posts: 22
    Just got back from driving my Envoy in some heavy snow and all I can say is WOW!I had a 1999 Blazer ZR-2 with locking rear and 31x10.5 tires and it was ok in snow.The Envoy has the off-road package with BF Goodrich tires and I also got the locking rear.I really had to nail the gas in 2wd to lose traction and did not lose any in awd or 4hi.The power comes on smooth and feels really tight.The tread pattern of the BFG's over the standard Michelins makes all the difference after riding in my friends TB sliding around in light snow.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Hey John339 - why would someone who has decided on a triplet take a serious look at the Explorer when the NHTSA hasn't even finished testing the vehicle? If you look at the Progressive Insurance site where they did 40 mph offset crash tests with both vehicles you'll see the Trailblazer looks to fair much better. What's amazing is the total lack of logic in some of the testing. If you go to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety's website (www.hwysafety.org) and pull up (in two different windows) the test photos/ratings for both the Explorer and Trailblazer their ratings don't make any sense. Example:

    The Explorer shows - on the first photo - the roof buckeling and the floor apparently dropping out from underneath and they give it a "good" rating

    The Trailblazer shows - on the first photo - no roof buckeling, no floor dropping and a front tire that ends up much farther forward than the Explorer and they only give it an "average".

    The Explorer and the Trailblazer - on the second photo - shows the occupant looking very similar yet the Explorer gets a "good" and the Trailblazer gets an "average".

    In the worst form of bias:

    The Explorer shows - on the third picture - the head "contacted the roof rail, window frame, and B-pillar during rebound" yet it gets a "good" rating.

    The Trailblazer shows - on the third picture - the head contacting the "B-pillar and window frame" yet it only gets an "average".

    There is clearly some bias going on. I'm not sure why.
  • ficussficuss Member Posts: 541
    to: agent eleven
    The clicking sound that preceeded the engine failure happened shortly before the engine died. It happened fast and left no doubt there was a serious problem. The service engine soon and reduced power indicators both came on and the engine stopped running. It's been about 3k miles since the engine replacement and all is ok with the new engine. GM offered me an extended warranty shortly after the engine was replaced. I don't know if it was because of the problem or if everyone was offered the same. Either way, I took the offer. $1500 to extend the warranty for 5 years or 70k miles was a no brainer considering what I've read on this board. The potential costs of repairing some of these problems after the warranty expires makes it worth the cost. I must have been lucky with my TB LTZ otherwise, no problems with squeals, gauges, door glass leaks, or vibrations. I just wish it had a BIGGER GAS TANK.
    "
  • DavyddDavydd Member Posts: 121
    I looked at the comparisons and I also saw the videos on TV. I too am puzzled by the conclusions. My visual observation was that the Trailblazer fared better. Regardless, there doesn't seem to be much significant difference to make this a criteria for selecting a vehicle between the two. Maybe they are trying a wee bit too hard to restore the Explorer's credibility after its tire fiasco.
  • hiker1hiker1 Member Posts: 9
    I purchased a set of Super Z LT cables for my 4wd TB. I did a dry run install in my driveway, but haven't had to put them on during my ski trips yet. They are heavier duty but easier to put on than cheap cables. Cost was about $80. Check out their website. They also have info on clearances.


    http://www.scc-chain.com/products.htm

  • okay1okay1 Member Posts: 10
    Last week my Westin chrome step bars finally came in (after waiting 2 months), and are now installed on my TB. I must admit that the quality of the chromed stainless steel, and the look, are even better than I could have hoped for. They came a perfect fit with no drilling necessary. At first glance they look more like side exhausts than step bars with their straight cut backs.
    Anyone looking for after market step bars should consider the "Platinum Series" Westin bars for a look that is sure to stand out!!!
  • osu98osu98 Member Posts: 6
    okay1: Is there an internet site where I can check out the step bars you installed?

    Everyone: I purchased my TB without the running boards. I now regret that decision and want to put them on. I called the dealer and he said they were $640. installed (he didn't quote me an "uninstalled" price). Does this price sound fair to you? Does anyone know of an aftermarket version of running boards for the TB?
    Thanks.
  • bobmnbobmn Member Posts: 28
    go to www.gmpartsdirect.com to order the trailblazer factory running boards. I did and they came in in 6 days. Perfect fit and they bolt right up. P/N: 12497885. $209.30 plus $37.67 shipping and handling for a total of $246.97.
  • coolsly2coolsly2 Member Posts: 25
    What would be the biggest size tire and mags (without any body lift) that would fit on a Trailblazer? I have a LT but i'm planning to do some mods next summer...

    Sylvain
  • bobmnbobmn Member Posts: 28
    has anyone else experienced problems with the front seat belts. In my TB they don't recoil much without help and they tend to hang down and get caught in the door.
  • okay1okay1 Member Posts: 10
    OSU98:
    Westin's web site is www.westinautomotive.com
    Sorry they dont have many good pictures for the Trailblazer istallation yet, but trust me, they look much better than the standard GM vinyl steps.
    I paid about 400 dollars including installation from my local custom shop in NJ.
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    Today is our first significant snowfall here in Atlanta. While there isn't much sticking to the roads my AWD Bravada handled beautifully. What really impressed me though is the thoughtful aerodynamic styling. At any speed above 35 miles per hour the the snow just goes right over the windshield without even hitting it.

    Great job GM!!!!!
  • kismat_tradingkismat_trading Member Posts: 8
    Forums such as these are the fruit of the digital age. I love the knowledge and information which I have obtained from this forum. The dealer was so surprised!

    A few questions I would like to get answered before I ink the deal...[The dealer didn't have any answers.] I am going for the 4x4, Enhanced Pkg, Pewter with Dk Pewter Int., along with Sunroof..

    I live in NYC, the Envoy will be subject to stop and go traffic on a daily basis and long highway trips on the weekends. What axle ratio is best? I do not plan on towing anything. I have hear so much hype, I have gotten confused. I just want confirmation that the 3.73 ratio would suffice. This vehilce will be my first new car purchase, I am currently driving a Honda Accord 2.2 L V4.. I does the trick for me on the acceration end but I need the add'l space for my 6 yr old daughter and her "Barbie 4x4"..

    Second has anyone tinkering will the OE radio setup.. If so does it have any available pre-amp outputs? Or am I just better off with aftermarket equipment.

    And finally, has anyone changed the suspension via aftermarket dropped springs? If so, what kind and do you get any ground scraping?

    Thanks to everyone who has posted to this forum, I love when I know more than a "professional" car dealer...

    Happy New Year Folks...

    Dheeraj
  • jeffwoerthjeffwoerth Member Posts: 15
    My SLT seems to be chipping paint a bit to often and easily. I drove my 97 Grand Cherokee and my wife's Grand Prix on the same NJ highways for years and no chips. I've had the Envoy since early September and there are several chips on the hood and front fenders already. Just wondering if anyone else is experiencing anything similar? By the way the paint color is the Summit White.
  • rcmillerrcmiller Member Posts: 5
    After 2 1/2 months and 7600 miles, my front right wheel has developed the squeal. Has anybody received a permanent fix with the seal work or does the problem still persist? It usually goes away after a few minutes or if I make a complete stop.

    The only other problem I've had repaired was a shorted out ignition control module at around 600 miles.
  • daredevilusadaredevilusa Member Posts: 2
    I will offer my opinion on 2 out of 3 questions you posed.

    The Gear ratio of 3.73 is more then sufficient if you will not be pulling or going off road much. You will also get better gas mileage. The axle will turn 3.73 times for every wheel revolution. Or 4.10 times for every wheel revolution. The larger the number the more the motor and axle have to work to get the wheels to spin. This is handy for low end torque, but requires higher rpm at highway speeds.

    I have the Premium package with the Bose In-dash CD changer. Having an aftermarket system in my last car, are you sure you really want to go aftermarket? This thing rattles my inside and outside mirrors at high volume. They may not hear me 2 blocks away, but it is more then adequate if you haven't listened at volume.

    Unsure of the lowering options, but, if you go to a smaller tire/wheel combo, then the 4.10 ratio will help maintain power curve closer to the 3.73 option.
  • icojonesicojones Member Posts: 61
    If I order a TB or Envoy this weekend, what are my chances of getting it by Feb 28 (7 1/2 weeks)?
  • icojonesicojones Member Posts: 61
    I'll be making my choice soon -- help!!!!

    Other than Rainsense wipers, what does the TB LTZ have the Envoy SLT doesn't?

    Other than the fake-wood dash and headlight washers, what does the Envoy SLT have that the TB LTZ doesn't?

    Thanks!
  • noller2gnoller2g Member Posts: 60
    Hey, have you looked at the Bravada? Fully loaded 2WD model was same price as an LTZ, and had many more options.

    I got the Bose system, Heated Seats, and Sunroof for free when compared to the LTZ I was negotiating for. Nicer interior treatment. Looks more like a car in front than a truck (but you may like the truck look). Standard Air suspension. Michelin tires, highly polished alum wheels. Fax wood trim inside.

    Add to that the included 5 year 60 000 mile GMPP (extended warranty) and how can you turn it down?

    Only difference is the looks.

    Bottom line, with all options except the AWD and DVD was about $29500 or so delivered.

    I can fax you my PO if you want.

    Greg
    Wichita
  • lurker01lurker01 Member Posts: 103
    Well, I spent the xmas break visiting Michigan and drving my Dad's Envoy SLE. While the SLE is nice, comparing it to my SLT is no contest.
    Everytime I got in the truck in the 20deg weather we were having, I longed for my heated seats. I also did not like the carbon fiber trim vs the wood trim. What really was noticable was the stereo. I cannot say this strongly enough, if you like music AT ALL, get the BOSE. The standard radio, while functional, does not hold a candle to the BOSE. I was amazed at the difference.
    I also missed the auto heat/AC and the rain sense wipers.
    The cloth seats were comfortable enough.

    Overall, I am very happy I spent the extra $$ on the SLT fully loaded package. Especially the radio.

    happy shopping...

    -John.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    Both vehicles are nice. The TB has the more rugged "butch" look and the Envoy has a more sophisticated look. The TB is very spartan inside in appearance compared to the Envoy. The Envoy looks more expensive and the TB looks tougher. The Envoy can have the air shocks and can have rainsense wipers too. All of this is strictly my opinion, of course. I chose the Envoy and love it in all respects. I have a good friend who had a new TB LTZ and loves it as much as I love my Envoy. Different strokes for different folks. That's why they make the three different models, so we can all be happy! BTW, I concur with the post about the BOSE stereo. There is absolutely NO reason for an aftermarket unit if you get the BOSE. It is super.
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    please note that the LTZ's do come with Rain Sense Wipers.

    Here are a some other diffs between the SLT Envoy and LTZ Trailblazer (not all are listed)

    Suspension:
    Air Suspension n/a on LTZ

    Tires and Rims:
    can get Hi Po rims on Envoy

    Roof and Glass:
    rear defogger, not sure, but the rear-most side windows may have a defoger like the Bravada...n/a on LTZ

    Safety:
    front and rear ventilated disc brakes
    front side-mounted airbags........LTZ has them too....I've seen some references that they don't, but they do.
    headlamp high pressure washers, n/a on LTZ....but w/out a wiper, useless, IMO.
    cornering lights, nice feature, but n/a on LTZ

    Comfort and Convenience Features
    simulated wood trim on dash
    simulated wood trim on doors
    simulated wood trim on center console
    ....above items on Envoy are n/a on LTZ

    tim
    2002 LTZ...everything but DVD & Sunroof
  • tlaurotlauro Member Posts: 504
    check out StonGard.com


    I have it and love it. Worth Every Penny.


    Details on my installation here:

    http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/trailblazer-pics-related/stongard-photos/stongard-details.html

  • pepper50pepper50 Member Posts: 195
    Icojones:
    Where did you read about a $2002 rebate thru Feb. 28? Was that just announced in the last day or two? I can't find anything about it on the Web. I'm also considering ordering an Envoy at some point. That could push me to make up my mind fast if it turns out it would arrive in time.
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