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http://www.stylinconcepts.com/parts.cfm/partfamilyid/293/categoryid/11/subcategoryid/58
Part#41272
The Manufacturer is Carriage Works and you can also research here
http://www.carriageworksinc.com/trucks.html
My condolences to you and your mother. What an unfortunate freak accident. That being said, I would urge both you and your mother to calm down and view this accident rationally. Until the facts are known, it is totally unfair to question the safety of these vehicles. Your post illustrates a common thought pattern in today's society-if something bad happens, we have to find someone or preferably some deep pocket company to blame. Many in my profession (law) encourage and feed on that way of thinking. I would suggest that based on the facts contained in your post, the driver of the Envoy did something (or failed to do something) that led to this awful crash. I do not know what vehicle is designed to be crashed sideways into a concrete abutment at highway speed and prevent this type of death and/or injury. No passenger vehicle short of a Sherman tank is going to protect a passenger in that type of crash. The thickness of the fenders and/or door panels is a moot point. Did the door really come open before the Envoy hit anything? That is suprising if the doors were locked. Perhaps the deceased accidently grabbed the door handle while the car was spinning? Did the door coming open, if it did, really make a difference in the outcome of the crash? At that speed and considering what was hit, my guess is probably not. Would a side curtain air bag have made a difference? Once again, considering the speed and what was hit, probably not. We all make a choice when we get behind the wheel to take some risk. I have no qualms about loading my family into my Envoy or any of my other vehicles to go somewhere. It sounds like you drive a lot and do not seem to have had many accidents, if any. Good driving skills like yours are FAR more important than the construction of the vehicle. Tell your mother that you are a good driver and are perfectly safe in your Envoy and that her friend's death was what it was, a freak and terrible accident. Until we are all willing to give up our freedoms and be forced to drive tanks, we all roll the dice every time we drive. If I die at the wheel of my Envoy, at least I will die happy.
Respectfully,
The other Dennis D. on this board.
Rick
I agree whole-heartedly with your response. Of course I am not freaking out about the vehicle, but given the circumstances of the crash and it being my moms best friend and all, she has the RIGHT to freak out and I understand that. Myself on the other hand can remain a little more calmer than my mother and that's what gives me the opportunity to express my concern and request crash test results on this vehicle. Just like I had mentioned in my previous posting, I don't have all the concrete facts as to what happened to cause the crash, but that leaves plenty of room for the imagination to wander if you know what I mean. BUT.. overall, from the first day that I test drove my aunts Trail Blazer, I felt that GM cheapened the vehicle somewhat but did a good job of masking those "cutbacks" by offering an entire slew of "bells and whistles." I don't know much about vehicles when it comes down to structural integrity, but just as some individuals like to "kick the tires" of a new vehicle, I like to knock on the front fender panels and I can remember knocking on the TB's front fender and I thought to myself, "Boy.. they sure make these things sound cheaper than it's predecessor (I had a 97 Olds Bravada) that felt pretty solid. So of course with me still having my 2000 Ford Explorer Limited, when comparing the two, the Explorer's panels have a solid feel to them, in addition to the rest of the vehicle.
Overall, I am NOT putting down the triplets, but because I am a single young man, I never thought about the crash ratings of these vehicles, whereas for other individuals with children, this could be their #1 concern with any vehicle purchase they consider. Although, with the help of those who responded back to my previous posting, I was able to determine that the triplets were NOT rated to well in regular crash test. I also did a little bit more research myself and the research does confirm that the triplets don't fair too well as some of its competitors did in regular crash testing.
Additionally, one other area of concern that was brought to my immediate attention. My Envoy SLT has the DVD player and of course it doesn't have the sunroof. I only take my vehicles through the touchless car washes (or hand wash them myself). The FIRST time I took my vehicle through the wash, at the end of the cycle you have to pass through the "SUPER DRYERS." The dryer that covers the roof of the vehicle goes back and forth in a sweeping motion to get the water off of the vehicle, well I ALMOST crapped my pants because when the dryer got past the windshield, it sounded as if the wind force was crushing in the top of the vehicle?? It sounded god awful and somewhat embarrassing! IF anything, it was DEFINITELY flexing the sheet metal on the rooftop. After being through the wash several times now, I am used to it but that leaves me to wonder how much dead space is up there since the dryers can cause the roof to flex in such the manner that it did. Now, on the other hand, I have never owned an SUV (or car for that matter) that has had "roof flexing" when going through this car wash??
Overall, I DO like the Envoy, but I still think that GM cheapened the vehicles quite a bit in terms of solidness. Just open the hood and look at the flimsy rubber that they placed across the engine compartment below the windshield wipers.. you can easily pick that stuff up with your hand! The older models used rubber strips that were grooved along the sheet metal so that it would stay in place. Same applies to the weather striping that they use around the rear doors, it moves around quite a bit when I am trying to clean those areas with a damp cloth. I often have to align the weather striping before closing the door? Check out the area around your hood release handle! You can see the color of your sheet metal around this area whereas my explorer has insulation around these areas. For a $38,420 vehicle, this honestly should be a NON-ISSUE here. I drove an Acura MDX this past summer and you could see/feel the overall quality of this vehicle, but growing up in a GM town and raised that way, I have always had GM, Ford or Chrysler vehicles. The triplets are nice vehicles.. loaded with plenty of BELLS and WHISTLES in addition to other innovative features, but when it comes down to it, you could sacrifice the bells and whistles in terms of safety and reliability in my eyes! That's just my opinion. Lastly, my dad works at the Saginaw GM factory and as he likes to put it, "the 4200 engine in the triplets is HIS." He works on the team that builds these engines and he works in the Robotics Department. Throughout the build stage of the engine, he mentioned that there has always been an ongoing fight between concerned GM workers and upper management about "rushing the engines out" as opposed to addressing some quality control issues. This shocked me, but I guess as things progressed, they made some changes to address these concerns. This led me to think that they (GM) would rather push these engines out as opposed to addressing quality control issues? Oh well.. just a concerned individual here.. Thanks for listening everyone and as soon as the details unfold as to what happened in the crash, I will let you all know.
Thanks!
Dennis D.
"Seat-mounted driver and front-passenger side-Impact Air Bags supplement the safety belt
system to reduce the risk of certain injuries to
front-seat occupants in side impacts."
Side-impact air bags are standard equipment on all Trailblazers although they may not be as good as side curtain air bags.. Tim
I did watch the video footage of the vehicles listed in the link above. For starters, I will NEVER own a Isuzu Rodeo.. the impact at 40 mph and the glass shattering really was an eye-opener to me! Wow! But, the other report listed states that the Ford is in the TOP 5 category whereas the other 6 were rated marginal, including the TB. So.. according to the "experts," the Ford Twins were rated good as compared to the others, and just as quickdtoo said in his post, the TB's had side-impact airbags as well.
Additionally, since these vehicles all roll off of the same assembly line in Moraine, OH.. I seriously doubt that one will perform better than the other in a crash test because they share the same exterior body parts with exception of the front ends and slightly different designed rear ends. Just my opinion.
Thanks!
Dennis D.
Bob
Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30 and a Fram Extra Guard filter; I've been using Mobil 1 for at least 10 years and have never had a problem; using a Fram filter is up for debate but I've never had a problem with them either. Some of GM product line like Vettes come with Mobil 1 Synthetic in them already. By the way; the oil change was easy once you get the routine down. I don't know at what point the "change oil prompt" kicks in and typically change oil at 5000 miles. I hope it kicks in before 0%
With the side curtain air bags, two-stage air bag system, and leading crash test results the Explorer seems like a good vehicle to examine more closely.
http://media.ford.com/products/press_article_display.cfm?article_id=10498&vehicle_id=239&make_id=92
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=239&press_subsection_id=424&make_id=92
Again sorry for your loss.
The engines are aluminum but have cast cylinder sleeves. Not an uncommon thing.
I have heard of at least two people with sleeves that have "slipped" and required total engine replacement.
It seem to remember a post here that talked of a "ticking" sound before the engine failed and the diagnosis was a loose cylinder sleeve. I may wade through the posts and try to find it.
I have the ticking in cold weather at idle, too, that some have talked about.
I guess we'll all find out sooner or later if it's something to worry about.
Back when I got my Trans Am there was no way to really know what other people were experiencing.
I had tranmission problems, rear end problems, but the main problem was that the new fuel injection system would fill the air cleaner with gas, the fumes would come in side and make you sick, the tank would build up pressure and sound like fog horn blowing, and if you remove the gas cap with more than a half a tank of gas, the gas would spray out like a garden hose on full blast. The back two spark plugs would foul out about every 4000 miles. The front end was aligned several times, but the tire would still show major wear on the outside edges. I sold the car with 24,000 miles on it. I told the new owner about the problems and told him to transfer the extended warranty, but he didn't. He called me back about 2 months later and told me the engine blew up.
So the problems so far with my new Envoy seem trivial compared to what I've been though before.
I would buy the Envoy again. The only thing that I would want different, is a larger gas tank. I'm use to having a 28 gallon tank, and this 18 seems small to me.
By having this board available, we can all help each other with problems and solutions. We don't have to take what the service technicians tell us, we can questions each other to get problems resolved faster than in the past.
Debbie
I'm looking forward to 3 years down the road when I upgrade to the TB EXT.
Tim
02 TB LTZ
My SLE with towing pkg (410 rear end and air suspension) now has 7k miles and is what I tell all who will listen "the perfect vehicle" for me. I would definitely buy it again. I traded in a '99 Bravada, which was not a very good truck, so it's like going from darkness to light. It's given me no problems, consistently averages 18-19 mpg, drives and rides like a dream, and hauls everything I need to haul. I haven't taken a long trip in it yet, but I know it will be a positive experience.
Take the plunge and enjoy it. Happy New Year.
The headlights could be better, but I replaced them with PIAA Super Platinum bulbs so I have no problems seeing at night now.
So far, I've been very impressed with this GM product.
All gauges were pegging to the right: GM Bulletin 797026. Reprogrammed cluster (93)
Front right squeal: Was to thighten the front false "wing".
I've done so far 1000 miles this weekend and everything is fine. So if you have this/those problem(s) maybe you'll be happy to know that!
Sylvain
I noticed that stipulation about chains, too, when buying my Envoy. I suggest that you look into tire cables. They are probably a suitable traction enhancement device. Most small cars cannot do chains either, so they end up with tire cables.
Please let us know if you find out that tire cables will work.
Regards,
Jeff
The Explorer shows - on the first photo - the roof buckeling and the floor apparently dropping out from underneath and they give it a "good" rating
The Trailblazer shows - on the first photo - no roof buckeling, no floor dropping and a front tire that ends up much farther forward than the Explorer and they only give it an "average".
The Explorer and the Trailblazer - on the second photo - shows the occupant looking very similar yet the Explorer gets a "good" and the Trailblazer gets an "average".
In the worst form of bias:
The Explorer shows - on the third picture - the head "contacted the roof rail, window frame, and B-pillar during rebound" yet it gets a "good" rating.
The Trailblazer shows - on the third picture - the head contacting the "B-pillar and window frame" yet it only gets an "average".
There is clearly some bias going on. I'm not sure why.
The clicking sound that preceeded the engine failure happened shortly before the engine died. It happened fast and left no doubt there was a serious problem. The service engine soon and reduced power indicators both came on and the engine stopped running. It's been about 3k miles since the engine replacement and all is ok with the new engine. GM offered me an extended warranty shortly after the engine was replaced. I don't know if it was because of the problem or if everyone was offered the same. Either way, I took the offer. $1500 to extend the warranty for 5 years or 70k miles was a no brainer considering what I've read on this board. The potential costs of repairing some of these problems after the warranty expires makes it worth the cost. I must have been lucky with my TB LTZ otherwise, no problems with squeals, gauges, door glass leaks, or vibrations. I just wish it had a BIGGER GAS TANK.
"
http://www.scc-chain.com/products.htm
Anyone looking for after market step bars should consider the "Platinum Series" Westin bars for a look that is sure to stand out!!!
Everyone: I purchased my TB without the running boards. I now regret that decision and want to put them on. I called the dealer and he said they were $640. installed (he didn't quote me an "uninstalled" price). Does this price sound fair to you? Does anyone know of an aftermarket version of running boards for the TB?
Thanks.
Sylvain
Westin's web site is www.westinautomotive.com
Sorry they dont have many good pictures for the Trailblazer istallation yet, but trust me, they look much better than the standard GM vinyl steps.
I paid about 400 dollars including installation from my local custom shop in NJ.
Great job GM!!!!!
A few questions I would like to get answered before I ink the deal...[The dealer didn't have any answers.] I am going for the 4x4, Enhanced Pkg, Pewter with Dk Pewter Int., along with Sunroof..
I live in NYC, the Envoy will be subject to stop and go traffic on a daily basis and long highway trips on the weekends. What axle ratio is best? I do not plan on towing anything. I have hear so much hype, I have gotten confused. I just want confirmation that the 3.73 ratio would suffice. This vehilce will be my first new car purchase, I am currently driving a Honda Accord 2.2 L V4.. I does the trick for me on the acceration end but I need the add'l space for my 6 yr old daughter and her "Barbie 4x4"..
Second has anyone tinkering will the OE radio setup.. If so does it have any available pre-amp outputs? Or am I just better off with aftermarket equipment.
And finally, has anyone changed the suspension via aftermarket dropped springs? If so, what kind and do you get any ground scraping?
Thanks to everyone who has posted to this forum, I love when I know more than a "professional" car dealer...
Happy New Year Folks...
Dheeraj
The only other problem I've had repaired was a shorted out ignition control module at around 600 miles.
The Gear ratio of 3.73 is more then sufficient if you will not be pulling or going off road much. You will also get better gas mileage. The axle will turn 3.73 times for every wheel revolution. Or 4.10 times for every wheel revolution. The larger the number the more the motor and axle have to work to get the wheels to spin. This is handy for low end torque, but requires higher rpm at highway speeds.
I have the Premium package with the Bose In-dash CD changer. Having an aftermarket system in my last car, are you sure you really want to go aftermarket? This thing rattles my inside and outside mirrors at high volume. They may not hear me 2 blocks away, but it is more then adequate if you haven't listened at volume.
Unsure of the lowering options, but, if you go to a smaller tire/wheel combo, then the 4.10 ratio will help maintain power curve closer to the 3.73 option.
Other than Rainsense wipers, what does the TB LTZ have the Envoy SLT doesn't?
Other than the fake-wood dash and headlight washers, what does the Envoy SLT have that the TB LTZ doesn't?
Thanks!
I got the Bose system, Heated Seats, and Sunroof for free when compared to the LTZ I was negotiating for. Nicer interior treatment. Looks more like a car in front than a truck (but you may like the truck look). Standard Air suspension. Michelin tires, highly polished alum wheels. Fax wood trim inside.
Add to that the included 5 year 60 000 mile GMPP (extended warranty) and how can you turn it down?
Only difference is the looks.
Bottom line, with all options except the AWD and DVD was about $29500 or so delivered.
I can fax you my PO if you want.
Greg
Wichita
Everytime I got in the truck in the 20deg weather we were having, I longed for my heated seats. I also did not like the carbon fiber trim vs the wood trim. What really was noticable was the stereo. I cannot say this strongly enough, if you like music AT ALL, get the BOSE. The standard radio, while functional, does not hold a candle to the BOSE. I was amazed at the difference.
I also missed the auto heat/AC and the rain sense wipers.
The cloth seats were comfortable enough.
Overall, I am very happy I spent the extra $$ on the SLT fully loaded package. Especially the radio.
happy shopping...
-John.
Here are a some other diffs between the SLT Envoy and LTZ Trailblazer (not all are listed)
Suspension:
Air Suspension n/a on LTZ
Tires and Rims:
can get Hi Po rims on Envoy
Roof and Glass:
rear defogger, not sure, but the rear-most side windows may have a defoger like the Bravada...n/a on LTZ
Safety:
front and rear ventilated disc brakes
front side-mounted airbags........LTZ has them too....I've seen some references that they don't, but they do.
headlamp high pressure washers, n/a on LTZ....but w/out a wiper, useless, IMO.
cornering lights, nice feature, but n/a on LTZ
Comfort and Convenience Features
simulated wood trim on dash
simulated wood trim on doors
simulated wood trim on center console
....above items on Envoy are n/a on LTZ
tim
2002 LTZ...everything but DVD & Sunroof
I have it and love it. Worth Every Penny.
Details on my installation here:
http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/trailblazer-pics-related/stongard-photos/stongard-details.html
Where did you read about a $2002 rebate thru Feb. 28? Was that just announced in the last day or two? I can't find anything about it on the Web. I'm also considering ordering an Envoy at some point. That could push me to make up my mind fast if it turns out it would arrive in time.