Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

medolark · February 2002

First, The black Envoy looks like crap.

Second- my dealer said change oil between 3000 and 7500 max regardless of oil change monitor. Makes sense to me. I plan to go 3000 mi or six months whichever comes first.

Seems like the recirc feature should shut off after a bit of cooldown. Why would you want it to stay on?

dpointer · February 2002

Well, I changed mine at 3500 before a big trip, with the indicator telling me I still had 65% life left...on track for a 10,000 mile oil change. I did it anyway. A good friend also has a 2002 TB LTZ and she waited until the indicator said 5%. The place that changed her oil said it had "sludged" the engine. I have to confess I don't even know what that means, but they said the oil was like lumpy gravey. Made me glad I changed mine. Her mileage was around 9500 at the time.

mkaye · February 2002

If you search back in the messages for about a week, I think you'll find the answer is a "software reprogram." There apparently is a TSB on it.

MK

ralfo · February 2002

Just went for an oil service at my dealership in Central NJ this morning and saw that they had three Envoy's on the lot with a "Denali" Kit. It looked pretty cool. The kit was a $3,500 option. From what I could see the olny thing they gave you is the Denali grill, running boards, and the Door Panels and trim on the outside said Denali on them.

acurahad · February 2002

You do not want to run 12,000 miles with dino oil before changing. The oil will look like molasses. I would change dino oil at no more than 6,000 miles /change max. I run syn. oil & change the oil at 11,000 & change the filter at 5500 & at the 11,000 mile mark. I have ran my car for 3 years & top end is clean, as a pin.

medolark · February 2002

I looked into the NHTSA database on TSBs but found nothing regarding the recirc. button. Is there another more complete source available for TSB's?

mkaye · February 2002

Looks like it wasn't a TSB, Hambone7 said in message #3551 RE: 8 minute Recirculate shutoff
"Within the past 6 weeks I have posted complaints about the recirculate button shutting down after 8 minutes. There wasn't much buzz about it except for a few stating they have the same issue. Well, my dealer found that it is due to a mechanical failure in the A/C system. A part is being overnighted to fix the problem. So, if your recirc button shuts down after 8 minutes, then you are affected. I'm crossing my fingers that this will correct the problem. I'll post again after they replace the parts."

SO Hambone7, Did it work?

envoyenvy1 · February 2002

Just picked up my Oynx Black Envoy SLT W/Tan leather interior. Loaded all the options except the DVD which wasn't available. I appreciate everyones input to this forum. I've been looking for about 6 months and had it narrowed down to the Envoy or Lexus. The $2,002 rebate made it a slamdunk. So far I'm very impressed with the ride and features. for the $$$ spent I think this is the best value on the road.
One question, I read somewhere adding dual exhaust would increase HP to an even 300 ponies.
That with the K&N filter should help it breath and increase both power (not that it needs it) but also MPG. Has anyone installed dual exhaust yet? If so any results?

bmhorsfall · February 2002

Well... I'm joining the crowd. I am picking up a Magnetic Red Envoy tomorrow morning. I can't wait to get it. It's not fully loaded, but it is loaded enough. It's an SLT with the enhanced package, Bose, roof, and the high polished wheels.

I'll be keeping an Eye on the mirrors and paint around the license plate bracket. Too bad I didn't have it the last few days when all of this snow hit.

-Brian

mrau · February 2002

I noticed in the Envoy brochure it says the DIC will give a "15 day history of the vehicle usage" (pg 12). However in the owner's manual I can't find it. Anyone have knowledge of this.
One other thing, where is the "puddle lamps"?(p.22) I thought they would be under the outside mirror, but I don't see them.

My Envoy SLT is running great. Only one problem: missing drivers-side bolt for front air dam. I put in a temp and will get it replaced at first oil change. At 3000 miles by the way. Oil only breaks down while it is in use. It doesn't get better with age. So changing every 3000 miles or so can't hurt it.

Remember the manual says if the Oil Life System is accidently reset, you must change oil at 3000 miles after your last oil change, then reset the Oil Life System. In all cases change your oil at least once a year.

Mike

tigervols2 · February 2002

As the 90 percent happy owner of a 2000 Blazer, I've seriously considered "trading up" for a new TB.

Not anymore.

I got off to a bad start with two potential dealers -- one on the Net, who responded to my query with a "you drive to much for a lease" response and demanding to know how much I wanted to spend (even though I never mentioned lease).

Then I found this website. Now I realize happy customers have little reason to post here, but the fact that the same problems are cropping up all over the country -- and GM refuses to deal with them -- is all I need to decided NOT to spend $30,000 on one of their products.

I wonder if you owners are looking through rose colored glasses, and that's why you're not all in revolt over paint chipping license plates, droopy mirrors, missing trim and problematic pumps?

Surely some GM Corporate folks read this site. To them, I ask: Get your act together!

noller2g · February 2002

The right front seat belt is designed to lock if it is pulled out all the way. It's for use with a child seat. Read the manual. Annoying, but that a feature, not a bug.

You cannot say every car needs an oil change at 3000 miles. That's why GM had it computerized. he problem is on a global scale, all these unnecessary 3000 mile oil changes wastes resources. Used to be based on mileage, now it's based on how hard the oil is used, as measured by the computer.

I always changed my oil after 3000 miles of city driving, and ignored any long trips. So if I went 4500 miles, and 1500 was interstate travel, it was time for a change. Now I'll just do it when the computer sais to, and use Mobil 1, and Go.

I have 162,000 on my 1985 4x4 S10 blazer. Works for me.

Buy the Bravada. You'll get a nicer interior, better deal at the dealer, and 5 yr 60k warranty.

also, the sterio head units are didderent. Different to the core.

Greg
Wichita

medolark · February 2002

I don't know if it is just my computer, but when I put a message number in the "jump to" box at the top of this page, I jump to something about 150 before the one I am interested in. What gives?

stever · February 2002

The number visible is different from the "real" number of messages posted - many are deleted by the posters, or by the hosts for housekeeping reasons (duplicates, language, etc.).

If you "hover" your mouse over the visible number, the "real" number will appear in your browser status bar (this post is "really" number 3801 for example).

The Jump To box uses the "real" number to navigate by, and that's why you are often thrown off trying to get back to a specific range of posts.

Hope this makes sense

. It's a "feature" of our software.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

scottc454 · February 2002

I don't believe in the 3000 mile oil change either. Who are you going to believe, the manufacturer of the vehicle or Jiffy Lube?

I don't know that I'll let it get to 12000, though, but one thing that seems to be overlooked
is that these things have big 7 quart oil pans.
That extra oil does let you go longer between
oil changes.

I changed the oil for the first time at just over 7000. It looked good. Not too thin, not sludgy.

hambone7 · February 2002

I'm happy to report that my dealer has fixed the recirc button issue where it would shut off after exactly 8 minutes consistently.

The first thing the dealer did was check the A/C system since I also complained that the A/C clutch cycled on and off a lot. The A/C system was out of spec (sensed a -40 degree F temperature) and a part was installed to correct the problem. I don't think the mechanical part corrected the recirc button issue because they went on the reload a new BCM (Body Control Module) program. I am about 99% that the new program corrected the recirc button issue. I don't believe that a mechanical failure would cause the recirc button to shut off after EXACTLY 8 minutes consistently.

hambone7 · February 2002

I didn't get the part number (because it wasn't listed on my dealership paperwork) for the front seat bracket covers, but I did get the dealer to put them on. All the new TBs that were on the lot had all the seat bracket covers from the factory so the dealer didn't have a leg to stand on to defend not ordering the covers for me.

hambone7 · February 2002

My dealer is aware of the tailgate chipping paint and has informed me that GM is working on a gasket to retrofit on our triplets. He said it would likely be a black gasket (I was hoping for a color coded gasket).

allenr · February 2002

Call me old fashion but I like to do two quick oil changes on my new motors. I do the first one at 600 or so miles and the second one around 1200-1500 miles.
You know they can't get all the little metal bits of metal completely out when they built them! Two quick oil and filter changes gets all the little pieces of junk out. I also installed a magnetic drain plug to catch any floating metal savings in the oil. Put the plug in at 600 miles and when I change the oil at 1200 there was a lot on metal shavings on the end on the magnetic

Buy the third oil change (4500 miles) the magnetic was almost clean!
After the two quick changes I usually go about 4000 to 5000 between changes. I use to do it at 3000 but oil is better now and new motors don't contaminate the oil as fast. I had a 1985 S-10 Blazer that had 217,000 miles on it when I sold it. I know it was all the oil changes I did over 11 years that keep that motor going. I never had to touch the inside of that motor!! and that old 2.8L was never known for its longevity.

Allen

tlauro · February 2002

Some thought I was crazy when I told them that GM was working on a twin turbo version of the 4.2l

I must have fielded a dozen or so email flames from various boards, but thankfully the recent Motor Trend proved me correct. It's not in production yet, but IMO, it will be a reality come 04.

How many would pay $45-$47k for one though?

quickdtoo · February 2002

I know this is an old subject, but the reason for changing the oil soon after purchase is mostly an old wive's tale, so to speak. Any metal shavings found in the oil will be caught in the oil filter on the first pass. That said, the Vortec 4200 production uses a process called lost foam casting to eliminate most of the milling and drilling of oil passageways where such filings would come from. The oil passageways and galleries are cast into the block, not machined. Changing the oil at reasonable intervals, 3 month or 3-3.5k miles, particularily if you are on the severe service maintenance schedule when you only make short drives around town and the engine never really gets warmed up, makes a lot of sense. This is where most engines are sludged. Even though the miles aren't built up, the sludge does and will trash an engine in relatively few miles. I hate to burst your bubble Allen, but the engine is all aluminum with the exception of the cylinder walls, so a magnet isn't going to help much.

HTH, Tim

icojones · February 2002

can someone tell me what exactly a front seat bracket cover is, where I look to see if I have them, and why I should be concerned if I don't. I couldn't find any mention of them in the owner's manual.

Thanks!

quickdtoo · February 2002

There are 4 mounting brackets on each front seat, 2 on the left side of each seat and 2 on the right side of each seat. The 2 brackets nearest the center of the vehicle don't have covers on them while the outer brackets do for some mysterious reason!
HTH, Tim

allenr · February 2002

It may be true the block is aluminum but all the moving parts run on metal bearing surfaces. That's what is wearing out, you would be surprised how much regular metal there is in that engine. The proof is the fine metal fillings found on the end of the magnet. That stuff goes right through the oil filter, it acts like a fine abrasive inside your engine and there and is no way to avoid it. During brake-in there is a large amount of these micro-metal shaving flowing through the engine. If there was no wearing of these bearing surfaces how would an engine break-in at all??

Allen

quickdtoo · February 2002

Yupper, while there are other metals other than aluminum, the bearings are bronze alloys that still aren't attracted by the magnet. Magnets are usually incorporated in trannies, transfer cases and differentials, not widely used in automotive engines. The only breakin required is for ring seating in the cylinders, not affected by oil circulation. Modern engines no longer require the breakin period of days past, otherwise GM and DC, amoung others, wouldn't put synthetic(Mobil 1) in Corvettes and Vipers, right from the factory. The OEM filter in the triplets is an AC Delco Duraguard, one of the best rated filters on the market, I seriously doubt any metallics are going to get past it. More on filters at http://www.flash.net/~lorint/lorin/oilfilter.htm and
http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html

My 40 yrs experience and .02 worth, Tim ;-)

cwhawk · February 2002

I am planning my first oil change on my TB at 4,000 miles. I am considering using synthetic oil. What are the advantages and disadvantages? Does it improve gas mileage?

beach15 · February 2002

When does the production of the Envoy XL and Trailblazer EXT begin? Also, when should the first ones be seen at a dealer?

quickdtoo · February 2002

Synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is justified in your application.

The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers (typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies (up to 25,000
miles) are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the engine at normal operating temperature, at highway
speeds, and in a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or extreme heat or cold puts the oil
change interval into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the
mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent that the dead
dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official allowance for the use of synthetics.
More at http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-overview.html

Tim

choots · February 2002

Some one in a earlier post said that their roof rack cross bars were on backwards. How does one tell??? Mine look like a airfoil and slope down from the rear to the front, back ward to a airplane wing going the same direction. Is this right or wrong?? I am wondering if wind noise problems dictate their placement like this.
Carl

kimodo · February 2002

Have filled up my TB two times so far. Each time, the fuel light has come on. When I fill it up, I notice that I have only put in 15.4 and 15.6 gallons each time. It's supposed to be an 18 something gallon tank right? Wondering when light goes on for other procrastinators such as myself. Also, just installed the factory running boards this weekend. Notice that there was alot of rusted parts underneath there when I was installing the boards. Have others who have taken a look underneath noticed this as well? Can't say I recall this with my other car, honda accord. Also have a funny squeak that sounds like it's coming from left front axle. Hear it when running over pot hole or any other hump or something. Did someone have this problem earlier and get the axle replaced or something? Also have stupid rattle in roof area, right where sunroof would be if I had one. Had same problem with Accord, but there was a dome light in middle of roof, so that was remedied. Don't know if there's anything that could be done with this, since I wouldn'twant them to tear roof cloth off. Very annoying. Otherwise, this baby runs very nice, and easier to get in with the running boards.

paulpro · February 2002

Allen comments in his post about oil changes on using a magnetic oil drain plug. Can anyone provide a size or Mfg Name and number.

Sure would save me climbing under car, removing plug and then running around hoping I can find one before I refill oil. I don't want to rely on counterbooks since most do not have current vehicle information.

Any help would be appreciated

Paul P

paulpro · February 2002

I have traditionally made my first new vehicle oil change at around 1000 miles. I subscribe to the believe about all the garbage floating around in a new engine.

This is my first exposure to GM's oil life algorithm. I trust it, or they wouldn't have put it on the vehicle. Any one want to offer comments about the value of the first oil change being done at an earlier date.

Paul P

allenr · February 2002

I still had my 2000 Blazer at the time. I noticed the drain plugs were the same size. The difference being the Blazer had the magnetic plug. You can guess what I did

I would go to any Chevy parts dept and ask for a drain plug for 2000 blazer 4.3 engine.

Allen

allenr · February 2002

If you want to change our oil early it can't hurt. I think it's cheap insurance. Sure you could go 10,000 mile before doing it, how many of us would stretch the first one that far?

Allen

scottc454 · February 2002

The bars should have the fat, blunt part
forward and the thin, sharper part in the back.
This is much like an airplane wing, except an
airplane wing is asymmetrical top to bottom.

To some this may sound counterintuitive, but
just think of how a raindrop is shaped.

pepper50 · February 2002

Kimodo:
I don't know the answer to your question; someone else might. In effect I guess you want to know the reserve capacity once the light comes on. But it's been recommended to me to never let the fuel get that low; that's it hard on the electronic fuel pump and sending unit. I've heard that the fuel pump will last a lot longer if you fill up your tank every time it gets down to 1/4-1/3. They say that tank levels causes increased sloshing of fuel and allows for more condensation of moisture in the airspace. I don't know if this is fact, but it sure sounds reasonable, especially when fuel pump replacement in these new vehicles runs about $600 or more since the entire module must be replaced as a unit. So I hope to try to not let mine get below 1/3; perhaps at rare intervals on a long trip, I'll let it go to 1/2. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

mrau · February 2002

I filled up my Envoy today with 14.3 gallons. No fuel light came on. Gauge read just under 1/4 tank. Might run it a bit lower next time just to make sure the Low Fuel warning works.

Also, I checked the mpg with the trip meter. I got 16.5 mpg. The DIC (which I had reset at the same time) showed 16.7 mpg. Since there is no easy way to replace the exact amount of fuel to full, I would say the DIC is right on target.
(Total odometer = 476 miles w/4.10 rear axle)

-- Mike

jrosasmc · February 2002

Rode in a new TrailBlazer recently; it seems much faster than my '92 Cherokee.

medolark · February 2002

I have allowed my fuel light to come on twice before refueling. Both times it took 16 gallons to refill. It seems safe to figure you have two gallons left when the light comes on.

dssnuffy · February 2002

The new Trailblazer EXT is available for ordering at your Chevrolet dealer. I'm quite certain that the XL should be available to order at the GMC dealers as well.

My understanding is that GM will start making the EXT at the end of this month. Given how long it took the Avalanche to reach dealers after they started production, I would say that they could be ready for pickup at the first of April.

Maybe if there is enough interest, the fine people at Edmunds.com could start a new board for the Trailblazer EXT and Envoy XL. I really like the way that the Avalanche Owner site is setup. (Join other Avalanche enthusiasts in Edmunds.com Chevrolet Avalanche Owners Club!) I could give you insights into my new truck when it arrives.

Any chance of that happening, Steve? Please, please, please!

Snuffy '92

stever · February 2002

We'll pass your request along to the Senior Host, Karen, who sets those up. Stay tuned....

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

dyates · February 2002

One item I wanted to comment on was some peoples earlier disapointment with gas mileage. I own a 2002 Indiglo Blue Bravada with about 1200 miles on it. It is currently averaging 17mpg and it has an EPA rating of 15/21.

I just thought I would do some checking. It gets better gas mileage than both the Explorer V8(comparable power) and the Dodge Durango.

The Acura MDX, Lexus RX300, and The BMW X5 all require super unleaded, which in my area all require an approximate 20% price surcharge. When these things are factored, it has to be the most fuel efficient vehicle in its class. More certainly, better than any SUV with a real truck frame and comparable power and weight.

archdukerizzo · February 2002

When you first got your bravada, did it start off with crappy gas mileage (13-14MPG) untill you broke it in?

minn_tb · February 2002

Has anyone found a cat-back system for the TB yet? I would like to put one on, but cannot find anyone making one at this point...

Thanks in advance!

dyates · February 2002

I did get worse gas mileage when I first picked it up, although I don't believe it is fully broken in yet.

I think it is hard to compare gas mileage with great accuracy, there are too many variables. I have the 3.73 axle ratio, and we've recently done more highway driving then city. I also reset my average reading at about the 500 mile mark and will probably reset it after the first oil change thinking that it should be further broken in at that time.

My main point is that I have seen references from places like Edmunds and other reviews that the Acura MDX and the Lexus RX300 get better mileage than other SUV's in their class.

However, if I take Acura's 23 MPG highway rating and reduce it by 20% to reflect the difference in cost by using Super Unleaded, I then come up with approximately 18.4 MPG compared to 21 for a similar GM triplet. The GM triplet is much heavier(because of real truck frame) and has more horsepower and torque.

The only item that I really wanted to emphasize is that when we compare gas mileage, it should be an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the Durango, Explorer, and other truck based vehicles that use regular gas makes sense.

Requiring the usage of Super Unleaded increases your real world cost significantly.

lbarter · February 2002

The bars are in fact marked to indicate which way they should face, as was described in post 3656. In fact if you remove the fron/rear cap on the rack and then pull the cross bar forward you will see that each bar has a direction indicator on them.

stever · February 2002

The clubs exist! (I gotta start hanging out in Owner's Clubs more often).

Trailblazer club

Oldsmobile Bravada

GMC Envoy

(or do you really want separate EXT/XL discussions in there?)

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

archdukerizzo · February 2002

Good, I hope my gas mileage gets better over time.
(I have a brand new Bravada with 450 miles on it now!)
I plan on using 87 octane gas.....

allenr · February 2002

Running you fuel tank near empty will cause pump to fail early. The reasoning being the fuel itself is what keeps the pump cool and lubricated. When the fuel gets low the pump gets uncovered and can get hot. Also the pump will suck air and run dry for a few seconds. My brother always ran his tank near empty and lost the pump in his Chevy truck at 40,000 miles. It wasn't too hard to pull the tank in his pickup

He now fills up around ¼ tank and has gone 125,000 miles with no problems.

Allen

cmack4 · February 2002

What kind of break-in cycle did you all follow for the Vortec 4200? I was planning on doing a simple 1000 mile low rev (under 3500rpms), followed by a 1000 mile high rev. I'm at about 700 miles now (took a weekend roadtrip

... Obviously, I'm varying engine speed, and trying to avoid gunning the throttle, though it is so tempting! So far I've been very impressed with the engine. GM's claim of 90% torque across the board is not only amazing but dead on... The power of this engine, even at low-rpm's is phenominal.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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