Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

bryancos · February 2002

The only catback plans I've seen are from Gibson Performance -- no part numbers announced yet:

http://www.gibsonperformance.com/applicguide/chevy.html

TRAILBLAZER

2002 4.2L,I-6 2/4WD 4 DR TBA TBA

ENVOY

2002 4.2L,I-6 2/4WD 4 DR TBA TBA

Talk to your local exhaust shop tho.. they might be able to build a custom setup... Anyone do this yet?

icojones · February 2002

Is there a way to not include a radio preference in personalized settings? It is kind of annoying to have the stations change.

kimodo · February 2002

Thanks for the heads up on letting the fuel get too low. Funny thing is, I used to have a mazda as well, and the light would always go on before I filled her up. Thing was, it was supposed to have a capacity of 11 gallons, but there were times when I filled it with +13 gallons. That was why I was intrigued by the light coming on at 15 and a half galons for the TB. that just seems quite early for me. Also one question for the LS owners who didn't get keyless entry. Anyway to install it yourself, or has anyonei nstalled it themselves, and what's needed. Thanks in advance.

allenr · February 2002

I would drive it easy for the first 200-300 miles mainly to seat the brake well. I had a friend tell me how he brakes-in his cars in it made so much sense I've used on all my new cars with very good results.

To break-in a new motor it need periods of moderate loading and periods of costing. The theory being, loading the motor forces the bearing surfaces to wear against each other and the period of coasting let's the oil back in to flush out any debris. I know a lot of people that buy new cars and start out on a long trip? This would tend to go against the moderate load and costing cycle. I know lots of people who don't do this and some of them have had problems. I never seem to have a problem getting 100,000 miles or more out of an engine. 217,000 in one case on an S-10 Blazer 2.8 J
I've broke in my last 6 engines this way and (nock on wood) never and a single engine problem.

Allen

dyfine · February 2002

I also noticed the rusty parts you referred to. I noticed them when I was looking under the hood at the engine - the rusty parts were close to the ground. This is my first brand new car, so I'm not sure, but it doesn't seem like this should be. Any thoughts?

pepper50 · February 2002

I'm close to finalizing a deal with a salesman for a new Envoy. I think I'll see if he'll throw in some mudflaps and a rear cargo mat. But I've never seen the GM flaps or rear cargo mat. Is the rear cargo mat carpeted and matches the rear carpet, or is it a vinyl mat? And does it have a raised lip around it or not? As for the dealer-installed mudflaps are these equivalent to the aftermarket ones? I guess if I talk him into including them I shouldn't be so picky; but have never seen them. Thanks.

cmack4 · February 2002

the mudflaps have a 3d shape to them with the appropriate logo for the vehicle and if the mat is like the bravada's, it will be carpeted and match the interior carpeting and have an anti-skid backing on it. Mine came with the Convenience and Luxury Package... not sure if it comes with the SLT package or not for the Envoy. Anyone actually come across a dealer accessory book yet for the triplets?

edl55347 · February 2002

Bryancos,
I found your post, Num 3291, for the running boards. Is this part number, 12497885, for the black 'factory' boards are they the bright aluminum colored ones?

lurker01 · February 2002

I thought someone mentioned a TSB for the wandering mirrors problem. I am taking mine in this week to have that fixed and would like to bring the info with me. I searched the TSB list online and could not find it. Could you direct me to where you saw it?

I also have the leaky rear window seal. Has anyone else out there had this fixed? What was the cure?

Thanks.

-John.

kimodo · February 2002

dyfine:
glad that I'm not the only who noticed it, but not glad that that rust is there. Been under my accord and mazda to do iol changes and I can't recall noticing that there was rust like that there. Another thing that I noticed is that the key hole for the glove compartment looked like it was used. In that the paint was worn. This is a barnd spanking new car going on its fourth month, and I hardly ever use the glove compartment, and never even once locked it with the key.

edl55347:
Those are the same running boards I ordered from gmpartsdirect. They are the black factory ones. Installed them myself this last weekend. Doable by yourself, but it would have been much quicker if I had help. Bolt in the middle of the running boards first, but not all the way, then work on the outside ones. Also, when working on that, if you are in fact doing it yourself, which you should (Save some dough), check to see if you notice rusted parts under there like I did. Such things as the axle rod, and screws and such. Have fun and good luck.

twinrivers · February 2002

Any complaints about the front passenger seat on long trips? I got into an Envoy at an auto show and find out that the floor is not totally flat, and the leg room is slightly angled outwards.

vplaza · February 2002

I've been quiet about the paint problem because there had not been much movement, but here is the latest.

Spoke to both my BBB Online processor and the GM Business Relations specialist handling the case on the GM side. (I guess they take BBB complaints seriosly at GM.)

According to the GM guy, GM will fabricate a "prototype" gasket/moulding that they will install in our vehicle. They expect to have it at the dealership in 10 to 30 days. If that fixes the problem, then I'm dropping the claim.

Then I can move on and have them fix the wandering mirrors (yep, I've got them too, which is quite annoying) and a situation where it REALLY difficult to get the car out of park. It seems that when it happens, you have to keep pressing on the brake pedal just the right way to release the shifter from park. Has that happened to anyone yet?

More updates when I have them.

vplaza · February 2002

twinrivers,

I don't normally sit in that seat since when we go on trips, I drive, but I know that my wife has no complaints about the legroom. We've been on one long trip in the vehicle and quite a few roundtrips to her folks (110 miles one way) and she's never said that the legroom caused her grief.

Obviously, it depends on the person sitting there, but in our case, it isn't a problem.

bryancos · February 2002

That was a repost of info provided by one of the others here. Guys, can you comment?

tlauro · February 2002

I posted a while back about the dealer replacing my mirrors.

It's not a TSB that I'm aware of, but there is a fix and two special controllers that are needed.

I'll search the board for my post and report back.

tim

flyersrule · February 2002

I had the mirror problem and took it to the dealership. They replaced the mirrors with with new ones and the problem went away.

flyersrule · February 2002

I have the same problem with the drivers seat. I am tall, 6'3", and on long trips my foot is killing me. No matter what I do, I can't get it comfortable. I think it has actually started to cause me to get shooting pains in my calf.

I had a 96 Blazer, and the difference between that and the Trailblazer is the positioning of the gas and brake pedals. The pedals on the Trailblazer are a lot closer to the seat. It causes my foot to be at an angle to the peddles. Plus, with the sloping of the floor, it takes a lot of muscle to keep it in that uncomfortable position.

Anybody else have the same problems?

edl55347 · February 2002

Kimodo,
THanks for the info. I ordered the boards and I'll post how the installation went. I will also check for the rust.
Thanks for your help.

sokulit · February 2002

Does anyone have an idea where I can purchase
White Face Gauges for my Envoy? I've only
seen the one from msg.#3444 regarding the
"Envoy Max" vehicle. Also, does anyone know
who makes a speed grille or billet grille for
the Envoy? Thanks for the help.

allenr · February 2002

I too seem to be having a problem with the drivers seat. My left knee has started to hurt when I drive my Bravada? No matter how I change the seat it still strains my knee. I might have hurt it some were else and the Bravada position just strains it? it didn't start right away, the first 8 months of driving I had no problem.

Allen

zackman · February 2002

Checked under my Envoy tonight (5,000 miles) and I didn't see rust like you guys are seeing. Yes the front axle half shafts are rusty but thats about it. No rust on the frame or on the under-body.

choots · February 2002

Thanks scottc, and ibarter, for the info on the cross bars. My next question is how do you take the bars off??
I see plastic caps on the ends of the rails and assume that if you pried in the right spot they would snap off. I also know from experience that prying in the wrong spot on this plastic stuff will break it. So,does anyone know the right spot??
Carl

hayhay · February 2002

I have 9k miles on my Envoy. Since day one I have a vibration @ approx. 17k rpms and between 58 - 61 mph. GM knows there is a problem but can't recommend a fix. They state there is a vibration that resonates from the tranny to the back coils. Has any one else been able to get theirs fixed yet?

rjsnyder2k · February 2002

Sokulit, I can't help you with the white face gauges but checkout post #3117. It has my install pics and links to purchasing information on the Billet Grille.

kismat_trading · February 2002

I am getting ready to plunk down almost $36,000 for a new 4x4 SLT with the 1SA pkg, sunroof, running boards and the Bose system etc. Of the $36,000, almost $3100 is NYC Sales Tax. I am figuring the base cost of the car after rebate is approx. $33,000.

I've been to two dealers in NYC, similiar price. It works to be almost 1000 OVER dealer invoice. I know the invoice has a built in cushion for the dealer. Any advice on breaking this price point. I waited till the end month to see if I could get a better deal but they wouldn't budge a penny.

I love the vehicle but I have this gut feeling I'll become one of the reasons why this idiot of a salesman goes on his vacation this spring.

Is buying a vehicle from GMC at dealer invoice or below that difficult? It is really shame, I understand they need to make a living but that's ridiculous.

On the other hand Ford, beat my Car's Direct price and was ready to roll within a few hours until I saw the Envoy across the street and stalled my purchase. Then I stumbled into this website and "newsgroup".

The Envoy practically sold itself to me, without the salesman repeating everything from Motor Trend's article to me.

Thanks everyone for your time. I hope to share my good experiences with my new Envoy with the group.

Dheeraj

littlegiants99 · February 2002

I own a 2002 Envoy. I am having trouble with a whining noise while in 4WD & 4AWD. I doesn't do it all of the time so it makes it hard for the service department to pinpoint it. The computer says that there is not a problem even though the technician can hear it. Is anyone else having this problem?

cmack4 · February 2002

What exactly is the price they are quoting before taxes? I just bought a new AWD Bravada 2 weeks ago and Invoice with everything on it was $34,433 before the $2002 rebate, $32,403 after rebate. I paid $32,800, which is about $400 over invoice. Factoring in dealer holdback of 3%, the dealer made about 4% profit. Could I have gotten him down to invoice? Maybe, but considering he beat everone else's prices in the area by $100's already, it wasn't worth straining a relationship with a dealer I plan on using for the life of the vehicle!

macman246 · February 2002

To make sure you're getting a good deal, use the tools on this website and price out the car with options. I ended up using the designated fleet manager in my area that Costco referred me to through their car buying service. Although the Envoy was not on the Costco pricing list (it was too new at the time), I still got $500 over invoice. Coupled with a $600 Envoy rebate postcard from GMC, 7 years of accumulated GM Gold Mastercard rebate dollars, $40 Envoy test-drive ATM card, and my '93 Exploder trade-in, I would say I did pretty good.

If you belong to a credit union, they may be affiliated with a car buying service too. The more data you arm yourself with, the better.

medolark · February 2002

I paid $200 over dealer invoice and got 0% financing. No haggling, so I sort of wondered if I could have done better. But, since this price was hundreds less than anyone else's and was my preferred dealer, I didn't try to push it.

dssnuffy · February 2002

I really like the Owner's Club feature of Edmunds. It is the first place I go when I login.

The Avalanche is set up well with a discussion on problems and solutions. As far as having a seperate one for EXT that would be nice because of the high traffic the Trailblazer already gets, but probably would be better once the EXT is actually available.

Thanks for listening.

David "Snuffy" Smith '92

2tiz · February 2002

Hey all!

I need advise and information.
My TB has been shifting bad for several months...
After several trips to the dealer it has been discovered the reason for the rough shifting in the transmission is it was low on fluid.
2 quarts low, 1 week later 2 pints low. No leaks, my TB LTZ had a seal problem between the tranny and transfer case which resulted in the transfer case being filled with transmission fluid. Consequently the 4wd switch failed and so on.
Any similar problems anywhere?
Should I demand a new tranny and transfer case?
Do you think there would be damage to either the transmission or transfer case?

I am not a mechanic!
Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

scottc454 · February 2002

You've probably caused some additional wear and tear to the clutches of the transmission. These things do wear over time under normal circumstances. When you run a transmission low on fluid, you subject these clutches to a lot more slippage, causing additional wear.

You've takens some life off the transmission, but it may be a case where it will last 240,000 miles instead of 250,000. These things are pretty durable.

When I first got my Trailblazer I had a similar problem. It was low on transmission fluid.
I added some and figured it came that way from the dealer. My 4WD switch did eventually
fail, but I never put the 2 together. Anyway, I'm not too concerned as I didn't go very long with it that condition.

I would hold on to all receipts, etc and if you have problems in the future, you could maybe
claim it was caused by the original defect. It's debatable whether that would be less or more of a headache than demanding a new transmission. In the worst case, I don't know how much it costs to get a transmission rebuilt, but there's a lot of places that do that and it's by no means a collossal job.

I think it comes down to how much driving you did with it low on fluid.

cwhawk · February 2002

Message to hayhay # 3694.

I had a similar complaint on my TB. At 1400-1500 rpm (50 mph), I had a vibration sound coming from under the vehicle. The dealer determined that the transmission dip stick was vibrating against the dip stick tube. He placed a rubber sleeve around the dip stick for about half of its length. Problem solved. This may be your problem. Remove the dip stick, place tape over the hole and drive a few miles. If you have no noise, you know the problem.

While in for the above problem, my dealer traced the seat bracket covers down through Chevrolet. They told him there was no part number for the covers. I checked his new TBs and found one with Oak interior with all covers. The inside covers look just like the outside covers. The dealer said he would remove them from the new vehicle and give them to me. How can something so minor be such a mystery? Have you ever had the feeling that GM is not being honest?

mrau · February 2002

I bought a 4x4 SLT w/1sh pack, sunroof and running boards. Sticker was 38,145. I got a copy of dealers invoice and it was 34,622. It also showed a price labeled "Total less holdback" = 32,986. I purchased this mid January. I know the Envoy base price was raised around Dec.
I was able to get the GM employee price (GMS) since my brother is an employee. That price was 33,308. The 6% Michigan tax offset the $2002 rebate, so the final out the door price was $33,304 ... taxes and all.
You can't beat the GM emp price, but maybe you can use the info to get closer to invoice.

Good luck,
Mike

Note: a local dealer in Michigan puts the "ONLY PRICE" on all his new cars. The price is about $600 more than GM Employee price, but is offered to everyone.

scottc454 · February 2002

I've got a somewhat bizarre problem. The engine fan comes on when I'm on the highway sometimes. It only happens when I'm up in the mountains. This last time I decided that I can't tolerate it anymore. The temp gauge was slightly below 210, which is just fine. It was 26 degrees out and I was going about 65 mph.

I know I've heard about this before, but has anyone gotten it fixed?
Is this fan clutch the old fashioned type or is there some sensor that decides when to turn on the fan?

I mentioned this to the dealer a while back and he claimed it was normal. Well, it's not normal and I'm fed up, but it's pretty much impossible to have them reproduce the problem. I though I read somewhere that the transmission fluid getting hot will cause the fan to turn on. That could be so, as I spend a lot of time in 3rd gear going up those mountains. However, I fail to see what point there is in turning on the fan when I'm already going 65mph through 26 degree air.

With that fan on, it sounds like a jet engine.

tonkadave · February 2002

Just picked up a brand new Envoy SLT. Drove it off the dealer lot and five minutes later, guess what? It broke down!
"Battery not charging" warning appeared and had to drive it back to the dealer with no headlights at night. Got to sit in the waiting room while they replaced the brand new alternator! Kind of puts a damper on picking up a new $34000 car. Must be a sign of things to come. All I can do is let them know how I feel with my customer survey. Good Job GMC.

hayhay · February 2002

thanks cwhawk - I'll try the dipstick fix.
I picked my Envoy up for the 4th time from dealer for the vibration. They stated that the harmonic vibration noise I am hearing and feeling is present in all Envoys. Because of all the rotating parts in a 4x4, at some instance the frequency of some of the parts coincide and creates the vibration I so abhor. Because I am "in tune" to this annoying harmonic vibration, I would be able to hear / feel it in every Envoy....
The "resonating" feels like rough road conditions -close the the feel of the warning bumps along expressway sides, but not as prevalent. It happens every time I hit 1650rpms and approx. 58 mph. Am I the only one "IN TUNE" or are GMC and and dealer out of tune with my Envoy????

hardhawk · February 2002

I got the wandering mirrors on my Envoy fixed with the 3 module replacement. So nice to have them stay put again! My dealer repositioned the velcro on the headliner around the sunroof opening to make it match up better, but it still does not hold. To those of you here who had that fix done, what did your dealer do to keep the headliner up? Mine only droops about a half to 3/4 of an inch, but I need that space as I am 6'4". Still love the truck as these two items are pretty minor annoyances to me.

garyking · February 2002

Have the service manager take a ride in your Envoy and demonstrate the vibration. Then go find a new one on the lot with the same configuration as yours and take it for a spin. Should be pretty easy to tell whether the problem is only yours or not.

cmack4 · February 2002

When you say sagging, do you mean the area right behind the sunroof? I know they intentionally left a small gap in between the roof and the headliner to accomodate the sliding sunvisor for the sunroof. That's why you can push right there and it goes up. I don't think that is a flaw. If you want to take sag out though, I would nix the brand name velcro and pick up some of the HD hook and loop fastener tape they have at Radio Shack. It's the closest thing you'll get to permanent, because it has the rough edge on both sides versus the traditional fuzzy stuff.

hardhawk · February 2002

The gap is more than what is supposed to be there. When you push up, you can feel the velcro grab, then you hear the zipping sound as it pulls apart. The Radio Shack HD Velcro may be the best solution.

saferry · February 2002

I have the same problem. Vibration at 1650 rpm running 58-60 MPH. I have the 3.42 ratio. Is anyone having the same problem with the 3.70 or 4.10 ratio.
Black Trailblazer LT with 7000 miles.

bryancos · February 2002

I just starting experiencing this high-pitched whine/squeal in the interior a couple days ago! Sounds as if it's coming from the center console/front center dash area. (mine is in 2WD when it occurs) It is intermittent, and seems to go away when I slow down to stop, so I can't locate it either. When it stops it "fades" like an air leak sounds when it's slowly plugged. Its starting to get annoying, as it can be heard over the radio...

lurker01 · February 2002

I took mine in today for the wandering mirrors. The dealer said that GM is aware of the issue but there is no known fix. I mentioned that I know some people who had the mirrors and control unit replaced and it fixed it. He said they tried that with another Envoy but it still did not work. I get the feeling I am going to have to live with the situation until GM comes up with an 'official' fix. Any thoughts on what to tell the dealer?

bobmn · February 2002

Have you had the vibration since day one or did it appear at a certain mileage. I have a Pewter Trailblazer LS 4wd with 3:42 axle ratio, 2200 miles. No vibration, yet.

hayhay · February 2002

saferry and bobmn
I also have the 3:42 gear ratio! The vibration has been since day one.

macman246 · February 2002

I bought my Envoy SLT 2WD with 4.10 axle last September, and 4800 miles later no vibrations. No wandering mirrors, leaks, rattles, rust underneath, missing seat bracket covers, or fan noise either. However, I have developed the chipped paint around the license plate bracket, but since my color is pewter it's not that noticeable. Let's make sure to get the word out when the gasket fix comes out.

Upgrades I've installed so far include WeatherTech bug deflector, GM running boards, GM splash guards, and PIAA superwhite headlight bulbs (WOW what a huge difference!).

kozak1 · February 2002

Thanks for the info about the safety belt!

dse1 · February 2002

got a black tb ltz in oct, in the shop 25 days so far, so I've had most of the problems listed.

bryancos - it's the front axle seal (dealer couldn't figure out which one, so they ordered them all), sounds like air leaking out of a thermos... (hopefully) picking it up from the dealer today with that fixed.

scottc454 - had the same problem, always in the cold (15-35 F) and always climbing uphill, took it in, and the dealer couldn't find anything wrong, hasn't occured since (not even driving half way up mt shasta 2wks ago in the cold)

-- anyone had a custom exhaust job done? how expensive?

pcrisp · February 2002

I just had my 02 Bravada in the shop yesterday to have the mirrors replaced (the wandering has stopped!) and I also had them address a whining noise that just started Sunday night. I refered to message #2624 where sostrouble posted the part numbers and fix that GM came up for his ride. I printed out that message as well as some others that referred to this same noise, and gave it to the service center so that they wouldn't have to do much searching. GM replaced the front differential axle seal or something like that, but the whining is gone for now. Good luck.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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