Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

rthammer · April 2001

Can anyone out there tell me the gvwr on the TB, Envoy and Bravada?

Drove a bravada last week. Very nice! Smooth ride and plenty of power. Judging by pictures only, the Bravada is the sharpest of the 3. It has a more RITZY look. Still waiting and looking for a TB.

bkjohnson · April 2001

The price quoted is for All-Wheel drive. I'm not sure of the dealer invoice - on various websites it says around $31. I mean, I can't just ask the dealer for the invoice price, can I?

earlc · April 2001

You can get the invoice prices on all vehicles including options on line. The best source is www.kbb.com Go to this site and you can arm yourself with this important info before you start negotiating. I looked it up and the base price forthe AWD Bravada is $31521. including $600. delivery cost. To this just add the invoice price of your options and you will have the dealer invoice price. Just remember that his true cost is 3% of the MSRP less than the $31521. invoice price. This 3% is given to all dealers by the manufacturer to help him finance his inventory.

b4z · April 2001

Have any of you guys heard of edmunds.com? I understand they have info on car prices also.

stever · April 2001

Thanks b4z :-)

Steve
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alani · April 2001

I got my Bravada for invoice + $400 in NJ, one of the toughest places on earth to deal with car dealers.
I got on this site, got the invoice and somehow (don't know how) found myself on autoweb.com, I filled in the application, in 12 hrs, got 2 emails, one for 800 above, the other for 400 (that was SUN).
Called the guy Mon at 1pm, went to his show room at 5:30 left at 6:45 after I did all paper work.
He called me next day, Tuesday, went to him 5:30 I drove my new 2002 Bravada out of his lot at 7pm.
Got the 0/0/0 deal (well, ok, I traded in, I had to get rid of most piece of junk in my life, a 93 Blazer - it was separate deal).

1- It is by far the most painless purchase in my life on any thing, not just cars, I knew the game, he knew the game, we both were going over my invoice which matched his to the last penny.

2- This Bravada is a DREAM! - the 5/60 deal made it easy to go back to the general.

Can't wait till the 1st 500 mile break in is over.

By the way, I am getting a lot of looks on the road from well dressed men and from a lot of women
(getting on the wife's nerve) - That tells me this car is an attention better, and that it is classy, it is Black.

-Alan

briandavis · April 2001

I got information that lease programs just started this week on GM new SUV's with lower leaseing rates. Not positive on all the rates but it appears for a two year lease on a 2002 Bravada is 3.0 APR in my area. However, I will have to confirm this. I briefly spoke to a GM representitive.

jack51pine · April 2001

There appears to be an error on edmunds.com when
trying to price options on the trailblazer. It says all options are dealer installed??? The envoy and bravada pricing seems to work fine.

ducatist4 · April 2001

I had a super experience with my dealer here in South Dakota on the last three vehicles we bought from them. BillionS Automotive, Oldsmobile Division, 605-334-2020. When we looked at both of our new Olds he pulled out the dealer invoice sheet and it was legit! It matched everything I found on the internet anywhere. Then we went up from there but not far. Good luck, we have 700 miles on the bravada and it runs and sounds great. Invoice was $32257, sticker was $35357, we bought it for $100 over invoice. Then we threw in our loyalty money and credit card rebate dollars.

briandavis · April 2001

Did the dealer make any money

harleycat00 · April 2001

Every new Envoy I've seen has had the rubber molding sticking out of the rear doors(by the rear wheel wells) when the doors are closed. Has anyone else noticed this? It seems like there would be no protection from snow,ice, or other debris, from building up in that area. Any thoughts?

stever · April 2001

According to the First Drive: 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, Oldsmobile Bravada dated 2/22/01, the TrailBlazer offers the widest range of options and price levels of these three models, but the actual figures are not yet available for it. Sorry, I don't know the ETA for the numbers here at Edmunds.

Steve
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b4z · April 2001

Did the dealer add an advertising charge on top of his invoice.

earlc · April 2001

Edmunds.com has some prices but not all like kbb. For example on the 2002 Trailblazer, Edmunds lists the base prices but no list of options or prices. Kelly Blue Book has all the prices including options and they exactly match the list that was printed out for me by a dealer on GM's computer.

darionlow · April 2001

Greetings! I recently test drove a 2002 Envoy and was really blown away. Wow, what a vehicle! It was so quiet on the road, had a beautiful exterior, well designed interior, and more gadgets and features then some luxury sedans. Unfortunately the GMC dealer wanted an insane amount of $ for it ($38k w/$4k dealer markup), so I'd imagine they'd want at least MSRP. I've also been looking at a 2001 Isuzu Trooper partially due to the 0.0% financing. However, on reading this forum, I was reminded about the 2002 Bravada with it's 0.0% financing... that makes it affordable for me! Other then the fact it's not as nice looking as the Envoy, and the Olds. brand will be dead in a year or two. is there any reason not to get this vehicle? Is the engine and everything as high quality as the Envoy?

briandavis · April 2001

I have confirmed the Bravada, Trail Blazer and Envoy Lease rates, for a two year lease its 3.0 APR and for a three year it's 5.9 APR. These rates are good for the entire quarter.

dindak · April 2001

Mechanically the Envoy and Bravada are almost the same. No worries about parts or service.

b4z · April 2001

Went to check on my intrigue at the dealership today and they just got in a bravada.
Great looking SUV. I sat in it and the interior is actually very nice. The wood trim on the doors is a nice touch. Perforated leather. Very good build quality. All the panels and trim fit very well. Appears to have a little more room than the old model. Back seat is a little bigger too, but another inch would have been nice.
After driving my intrigue so long i was surprised how poor the rear visibility was.
Overall a very nice vehicle. Hopefully they will start rebates on them soon.
My salesman said that the engine was kind of noisy from the outside, but when he started it up it was very quiet. He thinks its because they put some miles on it today.
Easily the best looking of the midsize GM utes. I would like to see it in pewter.

akajoe · April 2001

I bought my Bravada for about $400 over invoice, and got 0/0/'02 financing. Plus the 5/60 warranty gives peace of mind with respect to phaseout of Olds. This phaseout is pending all the dealers accepting the settlement from GM regarding phaseout of the franchise. Likely, Olds models will get re-badged under Cadillac or Buick. I love my Bravada.

You shouldn't pay much over invoice, and certainly not MSRP and certainly not any markups. Go onto the Internet, submit a request for quote from any of several dot.coms like carsmart, msn.com, and even amazon.com. Dealers in your area with Envoy's will contact you - their Internet sales managers will, not some salesman. These people are salaried managment people and don't charge commission on sales. They are trying to get their internet sales volumes up to keep their jobs. They are motivated. Get several quotes from several dealers. Play them against another without even leaving your desk - all correspondence over e-mail.

I got my Bravada deal by leveraging a Chevy dealer who was expecting a Trailblazer "within a week". By no means should you expect to pay MSRP. For a $34K Envoy, expect around $31K.

svman · April 2001

What could you expect for 2yr and 3yr residuals for the new Envoy (12K/yr)? I heard 57% for 3yr, but don't know about 2yr. With the lower lease rate supposedly out for the Envoys on a 2yr. lease, it might be a better deal. Thanks.

djcm5 · April 2001

I wouldn't even have known what a Bravada was except for the fact that I'm getting ready to buy my wife a Silhouette and saw a Bravada on the showroom floor. I couldn't believe I was looking at an Oldsmobile, much less a Domestic-built and designed SUV. First, I was pleasantly surprised by the styling/features. I got more curious and took it for what was supposed to be a short test drive, and it turned into a long test drive - now I'm even more impressed! The problem is, I'm still having trouble accepting that the vehicle can be as good as it seems! (Maybe that's what "shrinks" are for). I'm a Mercedes/BMW/VW/Lexus fan (and sometimes owner). But this Bravada is a sleeper - if you haven't seen it or driven it, you won't understand. It really is a shame that the vehicle won't get the attention/advertising it deserves. But then maybe I'll take advantage of the rebate $s that Olds will probably have to throw at it...

alani · April 2001

Yes I did, every area in the country has its own advertising surcharge. Based on my search through the net, you can not negotiate that since it is set by the regional dealer association.
you do not have to pay any thing else other than the freight , tax, luxury tax -NJ- and motor vehicle charges (don't pay for prep or even gas, GM is paying for it). Even my new insurance is only 200 above my old 93 Blazer -I had full coverage and live in NJ, the most expensive insurance state-.

-Alan

ducatist4 · April 2001

Even though we bought just over invoice ($100 above), the dealer still made his 3% holdback, and he was upfront about this. As far as I understand, GM credit card rebate dollars cost the dealers 3 cents per every dollar redeemed, has anyone else heard this? The Bravada is everything you think it is, and it is a sleeper. Over 700 miles and I am anxious to see how it pulls the motorcycle trailer and bikes. It actually has more gadgets than our Aurora. Looked at the new Mercury SUV, different.

dindak · April 2001

Have to agree also... the Bravada will be the sleeper. I suspect (and have heard rumors) it will become a Cadillac or a Buick when Oldsmobile dies. The truck is just too good to stop making.

devlopper · April 2001

The American car industry displays another part of its quality program today when they tell Trailblazer owners NOT TO DRIVE THEIR VEHICLES. As much as I hate to do so, my next car comes from Japan!

fdogs · April 2001

What do you mean Chevy is going to tell Trailblazer owners not to drive their vehicles?

mted23 · April 2001

GM issued a recall today of about 6000 Trailblazers, Envoys, and Bravadas for suspension parts that are suspect and may cause drivers to lose control of the vehicle. A GM spokesman said today that owners are not to drive the vehicle and to contact their dealers to have the dealer pick up the trucks. Reportedly the problem will shut the plant down for a number of days. The plant shutdown is in addition to a planned Easter shutdown. My source of info is chicagotribune.com. I am a 99 Blazer owner and have been reading this site quite often. I would like to consider a new GM suv but am having a hard time with GM quality. My 96 Blazer was junk and the 99 has been better but still somewhat disappointing. I realize this is a brand new design but I have many quality questions about GM.

dindak · April 2001

What are you talking about????????

devlopper · April 2001

I was considering going with the Bravada until this recall. As far as I'm concerned, the American automobile industry simply brings their product to market before they should. They have a sales over quality attitude and they end up paying for it in the longrun.

jkidd2 · April 2001

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAU86PK6LC.html

briandavis · April 2001

I was scheduled to pick up my 2002 Bravada on Friday, April 6, however as a result of a vehicle recall due to a suspension problem, I can't take delivery. Come on GM give me a break!

blacksilver · April 2001

Front suspension can fail without warning.

GM says "leave it where it is -- don't even TRY to drive them -- we'll send a tow truck".

s852 · April 2001

http://www.msnbc.com/news/555271.asp?0na=2145260-#BODY

This is kind of outrageous.

dindak · April 2001

I'm glad to see GM do this rather than wait for an accident to happen. Ford waited too long and look how many deaths and injuries occurred. Good show GM!

darionlow · April 2001

The only problem I have with the 2002 Bravada is I don't like the look that much. It is sort of growing on me, but I really like the look of the Envoy more. My dilema is, Oldsmobile is the only one offering 0.0% financing. I guess I could wait to see if GMC offers that on the Envoy... altho from the looks of the recall issue, I'll be waiting awhile regardless.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, for sure I'd go through a .com to get the internet manager and a good price. www.carsdirect.com has pretty good prices on most of their vehicles, but you can't haggle a trade-in or financing with them, you have to go through the dealer once things are setup with carsdirect. And you don't have much leverage since the deal is already done.

equiman · April 2001

This recall is absolutely unbelievable. They want you to call them to pick the vehicles up because they are so unsafe to drive. How many times are American manufacturers going to shoot themselves in the foot? I was getting close to convincing myself to buy a domestic vehicle for the first time in 15 years. I don't think so now. I'll stick with my Nissan.

guy21 · April 2001

Unbelievable is the better word. 30,000 produced, plant shut down, no fix yet, too dangerous to drive. Do the words "money back" come to mind.

lbthedog · April 2001

Is it worse to leave the vehicles on the road as Ford did or to stop, assess the problem (lower control arms cracking) stop selling and keep them off the road. There have been no injuries of any consumers. GM will not accept that possibility. They are doing the right thing. Would you want something else? Like waiting for parts to arrive?

kennemax · April 2001

This recall is unbelievable! Will they ever get it.
After a long wait and much anticipation, here is my personal experience/reaction to these new offerings. I viewed the Envoy, Trailblazer, and Bravado in that order. I definitely like the styling of the Bravado the best, however, the Envoy looks great as well. The TB would be more appealing if it were not for the chrome band across the front end.
However, in looking at Bravados located at different dealers, I have noticed that the gap between the hood and the left fender(as you are facing the front of the vehicle)is >1/2" wide!.... with the other gap a more reasonable 1/4" or so. This is really a shame that CM would let units like this pass final inspection and get delivered to dealers in this condition. After remarking about this to various sales personnel they just shrug their shoulders and look clue less! One sales mar tried to pass it off by saying that it was easily adjustable and proceeded to pull out on the opposite fender to make that gap wider to match the one on the left! What a joke!
My point is that quality "gaps" like this don't go very far in instilling confidence in a potential buyer who really wants to embrace these new offerings which seem otherwise well-designed and represent a great value. If one sees obvious quality gaps like this, what does it say about how the rest of the vehicle was assembled.....a a the lower control arm that is the subject of the recall!
CM are you listening. We really want to embrace these new products. Give us something to believe in.

gohuskies · April 2001

The General Motor's SUV recall is becoming the norm not the exception in the American Automotive industry, they have digressed back to the sixties and seventies when it was buyer beware and quality control was not in their vocabulary.
Ford has their roll over Explorer, Chrysler 50,000 buy backs since 1993 including the Jeep lemons and General Motor's terrible rating record with Consumer Reports and now their new SUV recall. Can't they realize that products should be engineered and tested before they are released. Why buy American when their are many superior quality SUVs available from foreign companies that appear to understand the words ENGINEERING, QUALITY, SAFETY and SERVICE.

dindak · April 2001

equiman : I wouldn't be too smug about Nissan. Far from top of the quality/ reliability heap. I like the Pathfinder but it's got it's problems too. Our best friends bought one three months ago and it's been in the shop twice already.

As for the problem, it almost sounds like an over reaction. "Don't drive your truck"??

I still think GM is doing the right thing here. Honda and Ford tend not to do that sort of thing.

teo · April 2001

Read this:

http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/gm405.htm

lbthedog · April 2001

Help me out here, wasn't it just last year that it was discovered, Mitsubishi had taken numerous warranty reports, some safety related, and hidden them within the corporation? Not that it really matters, but if I recall correctly, the sum total of the punishment was about ten thousand dollars American. I guess I wouldn't condemn the entire Japanese OR American auto industry but I would salute a company that shows guts in the name of safety rather than hiding a problem. Remember the key in all this: nobody who has purchased one of these vehicles has been injured.

zeen · April 2001

I understand that there were leasing deals announced just before the recall. Anyone have an estimate on the monthly payment for a 36 month 12,000 mile/yr. lease with $3000 down? In any event, this kind of part failure is relatively unprecedented, for the car not to be driveable at all. I can never remember a recall where the company said don't drive to the dealership for the repair...we'll tow it in. Don't they select production line vehicles for rigorous testing?

r22549 · April 2001

If ford had taken this approach, alot of lives could have been saved...

Ironic, I just went today to an Olds/Caddy dealer. Saw the Bravada there, nice looking. Was going to bring the wife in for a test drive, I guess I'll have to wait. Gm has had better days though....

Bushwack · April 2001

Last week I gave a deposit to a dealer to look for a loaded Envoy. I got a call last night telling me he found one 14 miles away and has already had it towed to his dealership. With purchase price already negotiated ($500 over invoice), the wife and I were on our way to the dealership this afternoon when we heard on the radio of the recall. We got to the dealer, asked him what he new of it and admitted he had yet to hear of any recall. He went to his manager to verify the recall. His manager said the recall only effects Envoys/Bravados/TB made prior to March 9. "My" Envoy had a manufacturing date of March 20. I asked him to verify the recall is for 'earlier' models. After waiting around for 20 minutes, he comes back with a letter on the dealerships letterhead stating the specifics of the recall. When asked why the notice is on the dealer's letterhead and not on an official GM memo (I expected a faxed copy), he stumbled on his words until assuring me that such a document is of legal binding.

I DON'T THINK SO!

I didn't bother asking for my deposit back (I put a hold on the check) and said adios.

The message here is buyer beware and buyer be informed. The recall doesn't scare me away from buying an Envoy. I'll wait until *I* gather more info on the recall and then proceed to purchase the car from another dealership.

Just my two cents...

nighter50 · April 2001

I think you made the right call . I have read some of the news reports and no mention of March 9 date. Also, why would they stop the plant if they had already started making the fix March 9th? Makes me think that dealer is not one you want to deal with when the recall parts are replaced.

Good luck

swschrad · April 2001

a later news story I saw indicated lower control arms are the suspect component leading to the recall. if the problem was faulty parts to a good spec, this one should be behind GM in a short while. it the problem was good parts to a suspicious specification, it may be a little while longer. you break or lose a lower control arm, no steering, wheel could be twisted off, etc. once again, always avoid initial production of a new vehicle

r22549 · April 2001

It was do to faulty parts..

tenn1975 · April 2001

I feel sorry for anyone who paid over MSRP for one of these SUV's. A local dealer in Nashville had a Trailblazer with a price next to the window sticker with a note that said "low availability charge $2500. I couldn't help but laugh.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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