Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

st1100v4 · December 2002

I've had my 02 Bravada since spring and today a first-time rider showed me how to turn on the individual reading lights (I'd always used the "dome light" switch when someone needed light inside). Oh well, live and learn (and the switches are pretty well disguised).

zonk · December 2002

Tried to confirm zapcat's info about the 60 month 0% int rate by going to the chevrolet site. Can't get on there -hmmmmm. Tidester -can you confirm?

melandmal · December 2002

Try media.gm.com. It's listed there as the "Holiday Event" Enhancement.

yatesd · December 2002

On the rear washer issue, fill up your tank and try again before taking to the dealer.

I had a 94 S-Blazer and it was my first vehicle with a rear wiper. It had a feature that would let you know when the fluid was becoming low. The rear wiper would always go dry first. It may be a way of prioritizing for safety purposes.

This is a forum about the Triplets or people that are actually thinking of getting one. People that know they don't want one should go to the whiner forum!

By the way, who would want a Jeep Liberty. It's smaller, less powerful, gets worse gas mileage, and Chrysler is known for reliability issues.

--
Doug

tlauro · December 2002

not sure where the thread started, but to chime in on what I've seen, it seems there is someone conducting the transfer of a lease. so long as it's run through the correct channels there should be no issue. the buyer or new Leasee will be on the contract and the old Leasee will be onto better things. any GM ealer can complete the transaction.

Regarding money down...I totally recommend NOT putting anything down. The idea of leasing is to reduce captial expenditures and to maintain all the money your account. The added interest paid is very minimal over the course of the lease. The various risks involved while you are leasing the car just aren't worth the savings. Worst case, you can be left in a situation where that money is gone forever and you're in need of a new vehicle. All that before your lease is completed. Not a pretty place to be in.

Again, no money down, pay the higher payment and draw from the money you would normally put down. Chances are if the lease is a "good one" you won't complete it anyway. If the payments are still too high, then you're on the wrong car.

Another comment was made that list price is not related to monthly payment. Actually it is. List price is where the residual is derived from, thus a higher list, higher residual but also a higher payment. Contrary to what many believe, an inflated or high residually incentivised lease is NOT the best bet for most. Monthly payments are lower, but the options and flexibilities that are the benefits of leasing are then limited. Best off getting a "balanced lease residual & rate"

Regarding lease end..turning in the vehicle is not the goal. That's a protection and limits risk, but ideally, you want to retail or sell the vehicle to another person prior to or at the same time you lease or buy your next vehicle. Most dealers will perform a "courtesy delivery" for a nominal fee of $100-$300.

Next case would be to trade in the vehicle to a dealer. Both of these options should be done if there is equity to be had. It's all negotitable too. Contrary to many who believe otherwise, you can have equity on a lease. typically 6mos prior to the end of the lease is when you should start working on the numbers and plan for the next car. I've never leased for longer than 30 months with nothing but ink and a handshake down and have all but once sold the cars on my own. $3,800 profit is the most made. Only turned in one and that was on a Camery back in 1997....Famous Toyota $200mo. Lease Deal. That's another story.

Regarding taxes....here in Ohio and many states, the state gov't is getting smart and changing leasing laws to their favor as in reality, consumers were making out. They are requiring all taxes be paid up front. You can roll them into the lease and finance them or pay them up front. IMO, I'd roll them in as again, no money up front is the key. You're not going to get it back from the state if you don't complete the contract, which is a bummer, but then, that's a state thing. Laws very by state, but again, I don't believe any state will refund the difference.

Enjoy the new vehicle..whoever started the thread! Hope I helped somewhat.

tim
former dealer

mfullmer · December 2002

As a former Dealer Kid I understand your points on leasing although I disagree. Your points come from the "Get a person in the car for the least amount of money" goal, while mine, as a consumer, is to get the best deal for my needs.

One point you made about List Price/Monthly Payment is wrong as it relates to what were were talking about. In reality, if you have two leases for the same exact terms AND you paid List Price (which I hope no one would do) then yes, it counts. However, on those same cars the residual always remains the same so the List Price makes no difference. What makes the difference in the monthly payments is the Capitalized Cost which is the amount agreed on the vehicle (preferrably somewhere just North of the invoice price) minus any cap cost reduction.

In my case I lease for the following reasons:

Tax write off as I lease it through my company
I NEVER keep a car that I lease.
I HATE trying to sell/trade in a car.
I want to pay the least amount of interest possible.

In reality, I should probably purchase my vehicles outright but I can't stand the process of trading in/selling.

To each his own but I use the website where you put in your lease terms and it grades it and I always get a very good deal on my leases.

calucyk · December 2002

Is it just me, or is it there are far less problems with the 03 triplets. The majority of the problems voiced by owners on this forum are related to 02 triplets. Encouraging news. I own a 02 Bravada and have had my share of problems, but I will say, these are outstanding vehicles, IMHO.

Regarding the new TNF, has anyone seen any of these on the road? I really like the uniqueness of this setup. All comments are welcome.

tlauro · December 2002

No, my points have nothing to do with getting a person in a car as the goal. They are simply the financial perspectives of leasing as it relates to any consumer. I was a priciple owner in three GM franchises that my family was involved in but have since left the industry and have no financial benefits to gain from this.

Nothing in my post or advice does the opposite of your goal which is to get the best deal. I simply pointed out many of the overlooked facts on leasing and those facts are mostly safety nets. Please point out any specifics in question as I'd be happy to go into more detail.

"As a former Dealer Kid I understand your points on leasing although I disagree. Your points come from the "Get a person in the car for the least amount of money" goal, while mine, as a consumer, is to get the best deal for my needs."

Regarding my comments on residual value....they were there to clarify the matter for other vs just directly responding to a specific post. Residual value is a % of list price. It's directly related to the payment regardless of what you pay for the vehicle. That value is set by the lending institution for each specific make, model and trim level. It will very from lender to lender. Yes, the purchase price also affects the payment too. That's a given, as is any variable within a lease comparison between two leases that only have one variable different.

Your reasons for leasing are valid ones and while they may not apply to everyone, nothing ever does. That's normal. You may wish to look into putting together or working with a simple excel spreadsheet for leasing. I have several from the simple calcs. to ones that general full contracts. I also understand your dislike for the whole process, but to maximize your benefits or to ideally get the best deal, you should look into alternatives to just turning the vehicle in at the end. It's always there to do should you choose to do that.

tim

xntrick · December 2002

I have a 3.42 ratio 2wd and I should tell you that I drive this thing like a wuss because I want to see how good I can get the mileage. Anyway, I'm off to see the bodyshop as a State vehicle drove into the front end of mine yesterday (hit the bumper and grill). Any heads up on those issues would be appreciated. Regards, Les Akins

blrmkr · December 2002

I agree with calucyk, I've had more than my fair share of problems, but now that everything seems to be fixed, my '02 TBLT is everything I'd hoped that it would be. It's not too big or too small, has capable A4WD for winter driving, can tow more than I'll ever need to tow, has a good highway feel, has not developed any permanent squeaks or rattles, and has given me 19.7 MPG (3.42) over 38,000 miles of driving so far.

No, I haven't seen any TNF TBs in the Detroit area. I've been watching for them.

boat10 · December 2002

I've read all 9000+ posts on this (forum)? and am beginning to wonder what it has turned into! I've had my '02 TB-LT since 6/01 with build date of 5/01; the only problem I've had with mine is the PCM reprogram and seat belt issue on the passenger side. Mine has all the options that can be had on a LT...and folks, let me tell you I have had NO PROBLEMS. My vehicle will get 18.5 to 26 MPG day in-day out. My commute is 16.6 miles one way on country back roads (55-60MPH), I have just gotten back from a 1400 mile trip and averaged better than 22 miles MPG running speeds up to 80 MPH on the Interstates....I now have 17777 miles on it. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth.

ficuss · December 2002

Are you sure someone isn't putting in an extra gallon or two between your fillups? 26 mpg is a stretch even if your are coasting downhill for the whole trip. Your 16.6 mile commute must be nonstop under absolutely ideal conditions. Here in Chicago, with our gas being 10% ethanol and winter gas having even more additives, I am lucky to get 15mpg on average. Our regular gas is about $1.50/gal now. How does that compare with yours? I can't complain about my TB LTZ and I accept the mileage I get, but 26 mpg?

Frank

ragar1 · December 2002

Hello everyone

I really need help with the front passenger seat belt. After the last use, the belt retracted OK but now it refuses to extend. Is this a common problem? will it require a trip to the dealer. We have a 2002 TB LS with 25K on the odometer.

Thanks for any help.

tidester · December 2002

You can always delete any of your posts, empty or otherwise.

tidester, host

calucyk · December 2002

I'm surprised to hear that you have not seen a single NF TB around Detroit. Could it be that Chevy has not begun to build these vehicles? I spoke to a dealership here in the metroplex (Dallas) and they seem to think that Chevy will not sell many of these vehicles due to the price. I see that as a good thing, as there will be less NF TB's on the street. Check out the Chevrolet web site for more information.

scottc454 · December 2002

Please don't fall prey to such marketing gimmicks. So it's a different color and comes with a blanket and 2 duffel bags, all for only 2 grand more.
No, wait a minute. They're 2 Base Camp duffel bags and a Nuptse blanket. Whatever the hell Nuptse means, I don't think it's worth $2000.

As you may have deduced, I'm against all these Eddie Bauer, L.L. Bean, etc. editions of things. What next, the Lexus ES300 Armani edition?

2002slt · December 2002

ficuss,

You need to get out of the city. I just paid $1.32 at a BP/Amoco in the Schaumburg area. That's not even counting the 6% off for using their credit card.

hardhawk · December 2002

Time to pick everyone's brain. Is there a way to adjust the height on the ECAS rear suspension? My lights don't seem to be as good as they used to be, as they don't illuminate as far down the road. I think the rear end of my Envoy (with ECAS) seems to sit a little higher than it used to. If the back end sits higher, that could lower the aim of the headlights. Last night I experimented and found I could leave my brights on with no one flashing me for having them on. That seems to indicate the aim is too low. The dims are no longer adequate at speed. When I first bought the car a year and a half ago, the lights were definitely higher than they are now. If the ECAS height does not adjust, then I will raise the aim on the lights. Any comments are appreciated. On a related light note, I get the occasional headlight flickering that has been mentioned. It only lasts a split second and the lights do not go off, they just seem to flicker for an instant. This has happened since the car was new. It does not bother me at all.

ficuss · December 2002

2002slt: My dentist is in Schaumburg. Because of that, I associate Schaumburg with pain. I actually by gas in Niles or Park Ridge, a little savings, but not $1.32. I do like the sound of 6% off using a BP card. Is the 6% given as a discount at the pump or is it a rebate of some sort? Have you figured out if it beats a mileage card with one of the soon to be bankrupted airlines?
By the way, in keeping with the informal requests to keep this medium as a car talk chat forum, I do drive my TB LTZ to Schaumburg.

Frank

2002slt · December 2002

The 6% is taken off of the bill, not at the pump.

Just in case anyone is interested...My Envoy gets between 12 and 20 miles per gallon. 12 when I drive my 5 miles to work and back. 20 when I drive on the highway at 65mph. I didn't buy my Envoy because it was fuel efficient. I bought it because it could tow my boat and handle the Chicago winters.

I've said it many times...This is the best vehicle I've ever owned. 11,000 miles and still loving it!!!

dssnuffy · December 2002

My dealer said there aren't any North Face editions in the lot yet. He said they expect them very early '03, but you know how that goes. He didn't tell me the features or the price. I've seen the North Face Avalanche, are there going to be the same added features for the North Face Envoy and Trailblazer? Just curious - Snuffy

cparise · December 2002

All,
My Envoy XL SLT is the most satisfying ride I have owned. Now that Wisconsin winter has set in my commute from Kenosha to Milwaukee (37 miles one way) is much more pleasant and safe. I've used all trans-axle settings except 4LO and they all engage/disengage seamlessly and are as quiet as 2 wheel drive. Heated seats are turned on at the beginning of each trip and automatic climate control works wonderfully. Windows never been steamed-up either. I usually have the Bose cranked just past mid-way. Can anyone stand it any louder? Never had any distortion or rattled anything loose either. I also enjoy the headlight washers. Salt on roads here is already so thick that you can taste it in the air, nice experience right northerner's! At night you can really tell what a great job the headlight washers perform. Try it, you'll like it. Mileage is slightly better than sticker 15 city/20 highway. I am convinced that on a substantial length highway trip I can achieve at least 20 mpg. Some posts mentioned fuel being spilled on fill-ups. I had some of that but my experience is that when I fill-up at Mobil stations (just got Speed Pass it's great) the nozzle seems to have better shut-off control. Not all Mobil's have Speed Pass and I suspect their nozzle design may be more advanced. No-name gas stations may pump similar/same gas but look at the nozzle design, they are 10 years old.
Chris

calucyk · December 2002

Hardhawk. Funny you should mention the electronically controlled air suspension. In the earlier stages of ownership, I had a problem with alignment. The vehicle constantly pulled hard to the passengers side. The servicing center performed three alignments, none of which fixed the problem. I got to thinking it may be related to the ECAS. Sure enough, it was. The vehicle was out of level side to side by almost 2 inches.

The system was developed by WABCO. Check out http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs/01-2002/page2.htm. I actually found a web site with illustrations on how to adjust the height. Unfortunately, I cannot find that URL, but you should gain enough information from the above URL to get you started. Couple of pointers to keep in mind:

1. Do not take the rear tires off, as you can reach in behind them and loosen the bolts to make the adjustment.

2. Once you adjust the height, let the ECAS cycle 3 times, which allows it to settle in.

Have fun with it!

tblazed · December 2002

Just for comparison, saw "87 regular" the other day on the west side of Fort Worth for $1.13.9, the highest here (in Dallas) seen recently is $1.39.9.

Ficuss, how does that gasohol stuff work up there? Tried it for a few tankfulls several years ago, wound up with a gas tank with mud and water in it that totally clogged up the fuel filter. Had to pull the tank flush the system and replace the filter. Then a couple of months later had to replace the fuel pump. Not good. I personally do not look forward to the day ethanol-diluted gas comes back to Texas, but the farm bill that was passed will probably cause that to happen. Poiltics winning out over "good science".

"North Face Edition": sheesh... what would be more suitable would be a JCPenney, Target or WalMart edition! Ridiculous!

ficuss · December 2002

tblazed: The gasohol we get up here works just fine. When it was first introduced, we were told to expect no changes. So far there has been only one change. Before gasohol, we used to add alcohol (Heet) to a tankful of gas to prevent winter fuel line freeze up. Thanks to gasohol, I haven't had to buy Heet. At about $1.30 per 12 oz. Heet wasn't cheap. I am still amazed though, that I see stores and gas stations displaying Heet. And I am more amazed that people buy it. Don't they realize that a 20 gal fillup of gasohol contains 2 gallons of ethanol (Heet). As fas as the water and mud in your tank is concerned, I don't think it had anything to do with gasohol. If anything, the alcohol would have mixed with the water and it would have passed harmlessly through your engine, and our farmers are very careful not to ship you any our valuable Illinois mud with the ethanol.

Frank

dkrdenvoy · December 2002

My envoy never sees better than 14 mpg. My commute is fairly high speed without constant stop and go but not highway. With careful driving and some highway I hit almost 16. Not much improvement. Probably the midwest formulated gas.

I like my 5/01 Envoy a lot but I have had 8 service calls on it (6000 miles). One call was my fault but the replacement mirror had the $%%@% wandering mirror problem. Sigh. If my dealer wasn't as good to work with and convenient (I always have a loaner car ready) I would be very annoyed.

I still like my Envoy and only regret not buying the Bose upgrade.

Tom

jhohn · December 2002

I have 16K on my Trail Blazer. In September my wife got ill from mold. It was traced to the ventlation system which I understand, from the mechanic, is a problem with some GM vehicles. Well. it just occurred again. This time the dealer use a different spray to disinfect the system. My wife refuses to drive it now, can anybody educate me about this problem or a solution to it?
Thanks

ross1962 · December 2002

I've heard the mold problem can occur when running the A/C on recirc too much.

clpurnell · December 2002

Haha,

Snow, High gas prices etc... This stuff cracks me up. I am so glad I am no longer a chicagoian. I was outside today doing christmas shopping in a short sleeve shirt. Might hit 70 here tomorrow. I'm still a die hard bears and sox fan.

(back on topic)
Oh by the way I am considering an envoy XL. It is between that and an expedition. The engine and ride is really smooth in the XL but the handling leaves a lot to be desired. Any XL or EXT owners out there and how have your rides faired?

redline65 · December 2002

How does the ride differ in the XL or EXT if you go with the air suspension vs. the standard suspension? Is the air suspension really only necessary if you will be doing a lot of towing or towing heavy loads?

tblazed · December 2002

I thought "Heet" was methanol or isopropyl alcohol. I know a cup or two of isopropyl in a tank of gas will cause water to suspend in gasoline and pass through the system. I remember seeing a good demo of that on the PBS show MotorWeek a couple of years ago. I wasn't blaming the mud and water on the source (farmers) but on ethanols affinity for water and that it did not seem to mix and suspend water in the gas like isopropyl did. I presume the ethanol they use to mix with gas is anhydrous (no water in it). I also figure they have come up with additives to make the gasohol work better. California is switching from MTBE to ethanol so we'll see how that goes. Anyway I am glad to hear it works OK since we will probably see it here someday after they finish phasing out MTBE as the EPA-mandated oxygenate we have been using here for 6 years or so.

cparise · December 2002

Some asked if air suspension is for towing or heavy loads. No, not necessarily, but it is preferable under those conditions unless you want your headlights aiming up at the sky. I've got air suspension on my wife's '98 Transport and on my Envoy XL. It will always level your vehicle no matter how many you carry or whatever the tow/load. ECAS is the way to go. As part of the package you get a built in air-compressor which is very handy for filling lawn tractor tires, or if you're not near a gas station and have to add air for whatever reason.
Chris

tblazed · December 2002

If you haven't done it yet or in a while I just went to the GM Vehicle Calibration Info site http://calid.gm.com/vci/ and compared to last time I checked mine a few months ago, found there have been 3 OS software updates including two updates that are a topic of discussion here frequently, so run your VIN and see if anything applies to your Triplet.

12579241 calibration to correct cold start idle surge and hesitation

12579255 new calibration to improve feel of 1-2 upshift

ficuss · December 2002

clpurnell: It might get to 70dg. here too. Who knows? We know one thing for certain, if you don't like todays weather, wait till tomorow, it'l change. We've had many 70 dg. days in December. The weather isn't the only draw up here either. I beleive we have a better dealer network and the mechanics are top notch. I have had an engine replaced on my TB LTZ. I inspected the engine compartment before and after the engine swap. I could not find any hint that it was changed, other than the problem was no longer there. By the way, where are you going to get your favorite pizza now?

Frank

clpurnell · December 2002

I know I would kill for a slice of Giordano's or Edwardo's right now. This stuff in Texas ain't Pizza lol. You may be right on mechanics up there. but they have real deals on trucks down here. a fully loaded envoy xl will run you only about 32-33k here plus they have a huge selection, except for 4wd models but hey they get snow like once every 5 years here in houston.

steveb24 · December 2002

I have a 2002 Envoy SLT. does anyone else have a problem where at high speeds the front window makes noise. I have been driving the last few weeks on the highway with strong winds doing in excess of 80 MPH and i noticed a noice like someone was pushing in the window and it was making a noise like a squeaking door/ cracking glass. I also have the mirror problem again with everyday a new direction to see :-). other then that i love the truck i just added the dual exhaust from borla the truck kept up with a mustang last night. To say he was a little ticked off would be nice but i wasn't :-). So the following info i need your help on, mirrors, if there is a TSB and did anyone have the window problem, and does anyone know if one can add VSC to this truck.

Thank You
Steven

giddens_john · December 2002

I have had an unpleasant window cracked open like noise. It was back in May of this year while driving west through Wyoming and Idaho. There was a hellacious cross wind while I was driving through these states so I had two days of driving at twelve hours road time per day to become acquainted with this particular quirk.

    At least in my case the cross winds have to be severe for the noise to occur and I say this because I haven't experienced it since. My speed was whatever the prevailing speed limit posted was :') so 70'ish and the cross wind was bad enough that to go straight I had to hold the steering wheel to the left like the truck was out of alignment. Needless to say my arms and shoulders were killing me by the time the high winds were done with me.

    Any way back to the noise, in my case the noise wasn't coming from the window, it was emanating from the door frame. While investigating where the noise was coming from, I pressed my fingers to the door frame at the top where the door meets the seal above the window, and my fingers got pinched. With further probing it felt like the door was being pulled open slightly with every little gust of wind. Insert picture of gremlin holding onto the door handle with both hands and trying to pry open the door with it's feet.

    The gap was never more than a few millimeters, and it oscillated like a flag fluttering in high winds. It only occurred on the drivers door, and like I said I haven't experienced it since. So maybe it's the same noise, maybe not. Next time it happens to you, push your fingers against the door frame where it meets the seal and see if you have the same experience.

lurker01 · December 2002

I picked up a set of the molded splash guards from the dealer this weekend but have not installed them yet. They wanted $80 to install, so I figured I would try it myself first. I have an 02 Envoy SLT with running boards. I am sure someone on here has done this themselves. I am wondering if you have some tips on how to do it. Can I install them without taking off the wheels? What tools will I need? How long should it take?

BTW: for those of you who gave suggestions on my bad rear washer, it turned out to be a bad switch. Also, I was having a weird problem with the rear wiper occilating between 'parked' and 'ready to wipe' after running for awhile. Turned out the read door module was on the fritz.

thanks,

-John

macman246 · December 2002

I have an 02 Envoy and installed the splash guards without taking the wheels off. The front wheels can be turned to access the area that needs drilling. The plastic is soft and easy to drill into. Unfortunately, the rear wheels do not turn, so I used a sharp nail held by pliers at a right angle to bore a hole. Installing all 4 splash guards took less than an hour to do. HTH.

boat10 · December 2002

in answer to your questions.
1. stretch of highway doing between 50-55 mph in the rain...DIC showing 25.7. This was on a 200 mile round trip. Used 8.1 gallons!

2. I use straight 87 octane SHELL gas..that's the only gas I use

3. In Tennessee I pay around 129.9 per gallon.. at this price for about the last couple of weeks

4. Back roads, very clear to run 55/60mph other than watching out for DEER!!!

anonymous02 · December 2002

http://www.massachusettsgasprices.com/

ficuss · December 2002

If you live up north in the freeze zone and you have rain sensing wipers on your triplet, remember to turn them to the off position when you turn off the ignition. If you don't, when you start the car with ice or snow on the windshield, the wiper motor will grind itself to a premature failure. GM could have the wipers turn off automatically like the rear window defroster when the car is turned off, thus avoiding the situation. But I guess that would have required forward thinking.

Frank

archdukerizzo · December 2002

Well my Bravada is gone.
I turned it in tonight.
The whole buypack paperwork process took 15 minutes.
I signed a bunch of stuff, turned my keys and registration over and got my check.
The funny thing is, the dealer said in 23 years they've never processed a buyback (note: I did not buy the bravada from this dealer. Mine was their first AND they were sent paperwork for a second bravada buyback later this week!)

To everyone with problem triplets, good luck in getting them fixed to your satisfaction, and to everyone with problem free or minimum problems, knock on wood and hope that the vehicle lasts you as long as you plan. They're great vehicles, and I will miss mine.

tjcishere1 · December 2002

5/02 build SLT 1sk pkt running well 8,000 miles on it been a great truck> have a question about calibrations i went to the site and with my vin # it came up with 5 updates how important is it to get this done if ur not having trouble? also has anyone put a remote start in the envoy i had it done just yesterday but now i have to carry another key fob i was told they couldn't use the original. i put a viper in the cost was $280

aadland · December 2002

For those of you that remember, my 4WD crapped out on me right before my Thanksgiving trip to Montana.

I brought it to the dealer the day we left with that TSB in hand the morning before we left...no luck. They tried the TSB, didn't work. They found the transfer case control module was bad, busted their asses to get a new one the same day, put it in, programmed it (twice), still no luck and time had run out. I do commend the dealer for trying so hard. I just showed up with no appointment and they tried their best but there was not enough time.

So, we got to take our trip with a 2WD. It sucked. If I didn't need a 4WD I would have bought a 2WD! Damn near $40K for a brand new 4WD vehicle so we wouldn't have to worry about these things...our '51 Willey's Jeep hasn't ever had the 4WD go out.... We lucked out weather-wise for the most part (it could have been worse) but it still sucked.

I couldn't hunt in the thing because there was a fair amount of snow on the ground. I drove it offroad some and while it does have very good traction compared to many 2WD vehicles I've used in the past, it simply couldn't get where I was going. After being spoiled in the "YuppyMobile" let me tell you, stuffing three guys and their rifles in the cab of a 20 year old diesel pickup that barely runs, most of the stuff doesn't work, is loud as a freight train, rides like somebody welded the shocks solid, heater doesn't work, etc...sucks. It really sucks.

On the way back, the first 200 miles or so were glare ice on the roads. People were sliding off the road left and right in front of us. There were 5 serious accidents in front of us within the first 100 miles. Going up a steep hill on glare ice, fighting to keep the rear end behind the front end all because the 4WD on you brand new damn truck doesn't work really, REALLY, SUCKED!

For the first time, I really feel like this thing has failed me. All the other problems we've had (wandering mirrors, license plate gasket--on my second one now--rear hatch seal, rear hatch strap, etc, etc, yada, yada yada) have pretty much been annoyances. But this was a major failure.

My dad always distrusted any 4WD where there wasn't an actual physical connection between his dirty, pissed off hand and the gears of the transfer case. After owning a '98 Jimmy with a "push button system" for a few years, that thing was flawless. Never any type of problem with the 4WD. I learned to trust the "electronic" systems.

Well, they have taken a serious step backward in the reliability department with these new rigs. This is the 3rd time my 4WD has acted up on this thing in 1 year. That is not a good sign. At least the first two times the 4WD still worked (even if it was stuck in 4WD when it shouldn't be). This time it didn't simply "act up." It failed. Done. Dead. Caput. And I needed it.

In the past, for something like this to happen a few large METAL parts would need to BREAK. Not so now. A "Module" gets "confused." An "encoder motor" decides not to "encode." There is nothing a shadetree mechanic (or even most small town shops) can do to fix that. They can weld broken metal parts (as could I) but they can't pull "modules" out of their posteriors.

The more I think about it the more infuriated it makes me. But what the hell can I do? Lemon law the thing? We've had it long enough and haven't documented anything I think would actually qualify. Besides, we really love it 99% of the time. Talk about a love-hate relationship. It's the most wonderfull vehicle we have ever owned. But it sucks and can't be trusted.

Anyway, it was back at the dealer today and the found the encoder motor was bad. They'll put a new one in tomorrow. It'll probably work after that. But how will I ever know it will work when I really need it?

Sorry for the rant. I feel better now.

In case you're wondering, we did OK despite having to "rough it."

http://www.JonAadland.com/HuntingPics.html

johntr · December 2002

Sorry about your troubles, good to see you were successful in the end. Where is your location for your hunts? I just joined a hunting club and our area is in the Pocono Mtns (PA) - I had my TB with the 4WD, it was useful! I can't imagine what you had to limit yourself too.

BTW, I think your best trophy is Gina! ;-)

John

anonymous02 · December 2002

Maybe next time you can take the vehicle you trust (the 1951 Willys).

Big bummer!

anonymous02 · December 2002

That is one fine looking Z28! Corvette motor???

Nice.

tblazed · December 2002

"...5 updates how important is it to get this done if ur not having trouble?"

Therein lies the question.. typical of doing any operating system update to a computer, will having the updates done fix problems and make things better, or cause differences that might not necessarily be better or improved? Only thing there I saw that interested me was the 12579255 "improve feel of 1-2 upshift". Wonder what they mean by that.

9t9wu8 · December 2002

I was in this forum relatively early on, and have been watching with interest again since the end of summer.

Our Envoy, full load SLT, 4.10's is now 19 months old and has 16,000 miles on it. We're averaging 14.4 MPG, (based on actually fuel used, not the hugely optimistic DIC). Highway mileage is around 19 with an occasional high in the 21-22 range when winds are favourable, and city gets us about 12 mpg, mostly winter driving as dry roads = stay in the garage, I'm taking the Camaro (o:

It goes in for LOF and a second attempt to get the dealer to correct the:
* wandering mirrors
* clunk from the left rear when crossing irregular/diagonal bumps
* loose and squeeking center console
* rear 12 volt outlet chewing up the seat
* loose valve on the auxilary air pump
* Updated calibration
* check on the rear license housing paint wear.

Cosmetically, I've removed the roof rack, all badging, and the body side mouldings. I'd love to lower it a couple of inches too, but so far have not been able to source a kit for the air suspension )o:

Performance wise it's good. The gears give it a lively feel, and it tows the Camaro on a trailer very well.

We're generally satisfied with the vehicle, but the overall experience, considering price, what the vehicle could have been if GM paid a little more attention to detail and dealer apathy to problems leaves us neutral to negative on the overall experience.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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