Subaru Impreza WRX

wildwildwest2 · July 2001

Hi,
saw your message regarding a yellow WRX at Paul Baileys Dodge Subaru. I called one of their five stores and they say that no Baileys store is a Subaru dealer. Is it possible this is a used one or its at a different dealer. I am in Washington state so its kind of hard to drop by there. Sure would appreciate it if you could check the dealer name, city and phone number for me.

Thanks,
Bob
A wannabe WRX owner

rexman · July 2001

Hmm, that's an interesting question. I think that the WRX has potential to become a classic (the only question is if any self-respecting WRX owner could simply let the car sit in the garage most of the time

). I've actually been guilty of this with my '93 MR-2 Turbo (with 24K miles on it). Never seen a single winter with it, and very few rain days. I'm in a quandry now though - I bought the WRX for a kick-a** daily-driver, but maybe I should let it become a classic instead of the MR-2.

ateixeira · July 2001

Nah, drive the daylights out of it.

You can always get an STi when those come out. Those will be collectible. The WRX is too high volume for that. Maybe, just maybe, the rare ones (like yellow) will hold some extra value.

-juice

rexman · July 2001

Hmm, that's an interesting question. I think that the WRX has potential to become a classic (the only question is if any self-respecting WRX owner could simply let the car sit in the garage most of the time

). I've actually been guilty of this with my '93 MR-2 Turbo (with 24K miles on it). Never seen a single winter with it, and very few rain days. I'm in a quandry now though - I bought the WRX for a kick-a** daily-driver, but maybe I should let it become a classic instead of the MR-2.

terrahopper · July 2001

Rexman,

How did you buy your WRX for $500 over invoice?
Did you have to haggle starting from a lower price
or was the dealer offering it at that price?

It'll be a while before I can afford to buy a WRX,
but I'd like to have an idea of how get one at a good price. Thanks in advance.

bluesubie · July 2001

Chuck - Congratulations and welcome! I know there are one or two around here on Edmunds that are at least close to you on the age scale. :-)

Dennis

rexman · July 2001

Terrahopper:
I bought my car at Ira Subaru in Danvers, MA. If you need the salesperson's name, let me know. I had already driven the car at another Subaru dealer (whose name I won't mention, as the personnel there fit the car sales stereotypes far too well

); so I simply walked in, told the salesperson I was paying cash for the car, no trade, and that I was ready to deal. I thought of offering less than $500 over invoice, but I didn't want to waste their time as well as mine. I thought that $500 is fair for everyone involved (especially since dealer hold-back is 3% of the MSRP, so they're already getting $700 for each car sold), so I told them that's what I'd pay. It was also near the end of the month, so they had to meet their sales quotas (this may be important

). They called back the next day, saying they could meet the terms. I closed the sale the day after that.

Again, you may want to shop for the car near the end of a month, as quotas may influence the deal you can get.

varig · July 2001

Chuckpo: I am interested in how the WRX handles better than your Audi. (quattro?). I'm caught between the WRX and Audi so any insight you could provide would be appreciated.

ateixeira · July 2001

I went to the M-B Power Trip event last weekend, and they had an A4 2.8 Quattro there for comparison with the new C-class.

It was OK, but definitely out-classed (pardon the pun) by the new C. I preferred the tranny on the Audi, because it was more reponsive, but the engine didn't have much on the low end at all. You really had to rev it up to see any kind of power.

That's the 2.8l V6, though, not the 1.8T. Audi it replacing the 2.8l with a new engine now that the new gen A4 is coming out. I say great, because the old engine didn't impress me at all.

-juice

tazereli · July 2001

Can anyone tell me why they would cripple this fine car with an automatic? I saw one today in a parking lot and it jsut about broke my heart. Subaru should offer a course in driving a 5 speed as this is the only reall way to enjoy this car. I realize people have valid readsons for buying an auto (traffic, city driving, blah, blah, blah)
They are missing out on a driving experience of a lifetime. Granted my test drives were brief at the 2 local dealerships (1 for manual & 1 for auto) but, there is just no way id go for the auto when i finally get rid of my pickup.

Kyle

barresa62 · July 2001

Stephen
5-spd WRX wagon

togar · July 2001

I can't speak for the upcoming A4, but I broke my lease of a 2001 a4 1.8T Quattro to finance my WRX. The Audi did NOT have the sport package, and there was soo much body roll that I wanted Dramamine around corners. Nice ride, WAY too much roll on the stock setup. Also had alot of electrical problems, and local dealers were constantly backed up for service. I got tired of paying way too much for the Audi, so I got the WRX.

The Audi will pamper you; you won't find anything with better materials quality out there for the price. But handling wise the WRX eats the A4 for a snack...

ateixeira · July 2001

Carl: the A4 I drove had about average body roll for a near-luxury sedan. It's just not a sport sedan - not in that state of tune.

Glad to hear you're happier now.

-juice

samsvr6 · July 2001

Togar,
How did you break the lease on the 2001 A4? What kind of penalties you paid?

Sam

mmcbride1 · July 2001

I would agree with you for the most part (I have a 2001 A4 1.8TQ), but you said you were paying too much for the Audi. If you don't mind my asking, how much were you paying? My A4 lease is cheaper than a WRX lease would have been, and the A4 stickered for $30k. I'm paying $425/month on my A4 (pre-tax), and the best the Subie dealer could do on a WRX was $440/month (pre-tax) for a car that stickers for $5k less. Both leases were 12k per year, 3 years, $0 down (and with the Audi, I only had to give them the first payment up front, that was it).

ateixeira · July 2001

He probably leased his before the subsidies appeared. With the new model already being reviewed by Edmunds and the like and photos floating around, Audi can no longer demand full price.

-juice

mmcbride1 · July 2001

But why speculate? I'll wait to hear it from the horse's mouth, thanks.

ateixeira · July 2001

Why not speculate? Freedom of speech.

Besides, you went to a single dealer that wouldn't budge off MSRP and used low residuals and then talk about the lease price as if it were set in stone.

I'll speculate again - maybe he actually shopped around and found a lower price?

-juice

mmcbride1 · July 2001

Settle down.

I went to two (2) dealers in Denver, and called another. None of them would budge off MSRP. No, I wasn't willing to drive 500 miles, but I did shop around town. Nobody I called or visited in Denver would even talk price. It was MSRP or walk (back in February when I was car shopping - they may be willing to deal now, I don't know).

I got lease quotes from the 2 I visited. They were within $5 per month of each other. And since you obviously don't know much about leasing, residuals are set in stone by the finance companies. They play with the interest rates (money factors), but I've never found a dealer that would play with the residual.

drew_ · July 2001

...at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/chat/subaruchat.html

ateixeira · July 2001

In that case, Denver is vastly different than the east coast. You can get $1000 over invoice in the blink of an eye, far better if you look around. $500 over is very common, at least around here.

You'll recall earlier I mentoined the A4 was being replaced, and Edmunds didn't even bother to test the previous-generation A4 against the sport sedans in their latest comparo, so they agree. So it's normal for an outgoing model to see steep discounts, and you cashed in. That's all good.

I just think we shouldn't give everyone shopping around for WRXs the impression that they all cost a lot more than A4s do. It's a regional, short-term advantage that an outgoing model had over a brand spanking new one.

-juice

chuckpo · July 2001

Re: Verig - The difference in handling is great, the Audi is a Luxury car. It will not hold a turn as well as the WRX. It is more comfortable but not enough to make me want one over the WRX. The total cost of ownership for the Audi was extremely high. Each trip to the dealer for regular maintenance was a few hundred dollars. When there was a problem it was MUCH more!!! The 1996 outback I still have (128,000 miles) was almost nothing in comparison. I hope the WRX is closer to the Outback than the Audi.
In the mountains I thought I was in a VERY fast train on TRACKS because the Rex handled so well.
With this car and my Valantine1 radar detector I was safe throughout the trip!!!
Hope everyone has a nice day!!!

bedabi · July 2001

Yes, the WRX and V-1 detector are a great combination! It's saved my butt plenty of times on road trips. Just gotta make sure you've got a flashy patsy in front so your V-1 can detect the laser speed readers off of him. Just the other day, I kept a Benz CL about 150 yards in front of me when a NJ trooper got him with a laser. My V-I detected it at the last moment, as they do. I passed by the Benz as the trooper pulled him over and saw that he had his face buried in his hands! Oh noooooo!!

corkfish · July 2001

Has anyone installed the Cobb Tuning exhaust? I'm curious to see if it improves low end torque.

clarencourt · July 2001

I've seen web articles about removal of the air intake silencer....anybody have experience with this?

Acutal benefits or pretend benefits? (like it sounds better but doesn't increase performance.

myeviltwin · July 2001

[ I tried posting this before, but it looks like it failed. Sorry if it appears twice. ]

Just coming back from visiting a couple of dealers, I'd like to share a few observations about the WRX. I would appreciate comments and answers to my questions.

The first dealer I visited (Lou Fusz Subaru in St. Louis) had two sedans (one of them sold) and two wagons in the lot. They didn't have a demo for test drives, and they only let me take the sedan that wasn't sold (stick shift) for a very short drive around the block. I drove it gently, no reason for a potential future owner to get worried... It wasn't really enough to get much of an impression, except that I was sitting comfortably. The sales person (Alan Rosen) was very friendly, helpful and knowledgeable, nothing like some of the car sales people you run into. He said that they sell the WRX for sticker price, no more, no less, and that he could order me a car in any color (except for the limited yellow) and any options I wanted from the factory. He didn't try to talk me into buying the car on the lot, or tell me that I needed all the options, which I really appreciated. All in all a very positive experience, even though a longer test drive would have been nice. And of course you'd always prefer a lower price...

The second dealer I visited didn't have a WRX with stick shift there. They had a wagon with automatic for test drives, it had around 600 miles on it. They let me take off by myself, and when I asked how long I could have it, they said that I should be back by closing time... I didn't want to abuse their generosity, and drove it for maybe half an hour. Here is what I noticed:
Disclaimer: I've been driving cars with manual transmission for all my life, the only time I drive automatics is the occasional rental. And I never drove a turbo before.

Ride: Rather firm, but not excessively harsh. Almost perfect for my taste. I never liked cars that feel like boats...

Handling: Sadly enough, roads tend to me mostly straight around here, and when I found a stretch with a few turns, I was blocked by a slow driver. But the car felt fine, it always did exactly what I wanted it to do. I managed to get into one relatively sharp corner without much traffic around me. It had a yellow 20 mph sign, and I entered it with 40-45 mph. I held my breath for a second (imagine the emarassement of crashing a car on a test drive!), but there was no reason to. The car took the corner with ease, I didn't feel like it was even close to a limit.

Steering: Reasonably responsive, but could be a little more direct.

Power/acceleration: That's where my questions/concerns are. Taking off at a stop sign, I would push the pedal (I tried both almost flooring it, and also more gradually), and I was basically just standing there for a while, it seemed to take one or two seconds until the car even started moving. Did anybody else observe this? Does it make any sense? I know that I probably can't expect the low-end torque of my current car (Firebird), but this definitely didn't feel right. Once I got to a moderate speed, everything felt normal, and when the turbo kicked in at 3000-4000 rpm, that little car started flying. The engine felt very lively, and happy to spin up as high as you wanted it to.

As I said initially, my lack of experience (and desire) to drive an automatic might have something to do with this, but I was still suprised at how little power I got at the low end. I actually made a similar observation on the short drive with the manual: I was approaching an intersection slowly, and stayed in second gear. When I tried to accelerate, nothing happened for a while, and then the car started to pick up speed very slowly. Once you're used to the car you would obviously have shifted down to first, so it might be no big deal with the manual. But it's a mistery to me how anybody could enjoy this car with an automatic.

This dealer said that they should have a stick shift available for a test drive in a week or so, I should have a better idea after that. In the meantime, I would still be interested in your opinions, and hope that nobody gets too upset by my partially critical remarks. My own conclusion would be that you need to get the manual (which I would have done anyway), and shift those gears frequently to keep that engine spinning

BTW: This salesperson said that they're also selling close to sticker price, he might be able to shave off $100-200.

R.

mmcbride1 · July 2001

You love to distort facts, don't you?

I never said WRX's were more expensive than A4's (they're not), I said they are more expensive to lease because Subaru has ridiculously low residuals on them (53% in Feb when they were just released, so I'd say they are around 50% right now - my A4 was 56% at the end of April when I got it). Second, Audi is offering very low lease rates right now, Subaru is not. The money factor on my A4 is equivalent to 6%. The rate I was quoted from Subaru was over 10%!!!!! And I wish I 'cashed in' on deep discounts. I got about $1,000 over invoice, which is a good deal, but hardly what I'd call a deep discount. Yes, the new A4 is coming, but it's not here yet, and so what if the A4 wasn't in the comparo? The WRX wasn't in it, either. That's because it was for entry-level luxury sports sedans. There is no luxury to be found in the Subie.

I was just asking togar a question (because he mentioned that he was leasing the A4 and that he was tired of paying "way too much for the Audi") when you jumped in.

sajohnson · July 2001

I agree with everything you said. I bought the 5MT sedan. Why anyone would by this car with an auto trans is beyond me. I test drove both and the auto really mutes the performance potential of this engine.

BTW, changing the tires really does wonders for the WRX's handling. I swaped the RE92's for RE730's immediately. HUGE difference. I can only assume that Subaru is catering to the people who insist on using ONE set of tires year-round by using the RE92's.

bruticus · July 2001

When I get my WRX (probably this fall) I plan to run stock wheels/tires until next spring when the weather gets nice again, and then get a Plus1 upgrade.

DjB

bruticus · July 2001

Heading home on Rt 1, a silver wagon (w/ the BBS wheels) followed immediately by a yellow lim-ed sedan. I passed them (they were in the middle lane behind a semi) and I thought I'd have a chance to be next to them during a streetlight at some point, but they exited the highway and I didn't notice. I wanted to say "nice car" to the drivers and ask if they liked them as much as I think I will like the one I eventually buy.

DjB

aquicky · July 2001

Hi Myeviltwin. When you get your car, post a message. We should drive them along the Mississippi Road.

Nick
Sedona Red Pearl 5MT Sedan

silver_bullet · July 2001

Has anyone test driven and compared the new 2.5RS and the WRX? I'd be interested in your observations, comparing more or less equal levels of equipment (i.e., a 5-speed 2.5RS vs. a 5-speed WRX sedan).

ateixeira · July 2001

Mike: Audi's low rates equate to the deep discount I was talking about. Nonetheless, I'll let you have the last word since our discussion isn't useful to the others here.

-juice

comanchowner · July 2001

I have a Saab Viggen and I went and test drove a WRX manual. The WRX takes a totally different style of driving than the Viggen. The Viggen's 258 ft-lbs of torque start at about 2,300 rpm and go all the way to near 6,000 rpm. If you're at 2,000 rpm and floor it in the Viggen, you'll be flying before you hit 5,000 rpm, especially in 3rd gear and beyond.

In the WRX, I had it floored at about 2,500 rpm, and the car did absolutely nothing. It just sat there until the rpm got into the 4-5,000 range. I'm used to shifting by then, so I shifted and got back to no power again.

The WRX's torque and power curve will take a while to get used to. But it seems like it will be fun once you're used to it. To have any fun, you'll definitely have to have the rpm high.

mckague · July 2001

I've taken both the auto and manual WRX on test drives. First, let me say that the car is great bang for the buck. In fact, I think I will probably purchase one, so obviously I like it. Now on to your primary concern about acceleration. I felt the same thing. I too am used to cars with good low end torque (like your Firebird). Keep in mind the nature of the engine. It's a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder. Without any turbot boost, acceleration is a bit tepid, and it takes a bit for the turbot to spool up - there is a noticeable amount of turbot lag. The lag is worse for me living as I do at about a mile above sea level (Denver area); the turbo has to make up for the lost atmospheric pressure. Did you drive the Firebird to the dealer to test drive the WRX? I find that my test drive experiences are largely relative to what I have most recently driven. That is why I typically test cars back to back. If your Firebird is a 5.7 liter V8, as you know, it has good low end grunt. Getting out of that and into the WRX will highlight that, as well as other, differences.

You must admit, though, that once the turbo spools up, the car shoots forward quite convincingly. I think the WRX needs a manual as well. Not only so that you can keep the turbo spun up, but also it sure felt to me that the auto was, in a side by side holding all other factors equal comparison, quite a bit slower to accelerate which makes the turbo lag seem worse. My guess is that the auto has taller gearing, but I'm not sure. What really sells me on this car is the handling. Driving it on twisty mountain roads is a blast.

While I'm here, I have a quick question for WRX owners. Any feel on how much, if any, extra attention your WRX gets from law enforcement? Thanks

WarpDrive · July 2001

Basically, before the turbo spools up around 3000 rpm, the car has a regular 2.0L engine pushing a 3000+ car. A 2.0L engine in a 3000 lb car probably would only typically manage a 0-60 in the 9.5 second range. It's going to feel like a dog. Over that, around 3500, the torque builds up quite nicely as the turbo spools up (as you keep your foot planted). It's not locomotive strong but it's enough to get you some against the seat pressure. Keep your foot planted and you'll be flying by quite a few other "lesser" cars.

Anybody coming from a 5.7L engine like in a Z28 will probably miss the massive torque of those engines. The WRX requires a different style of driving that requires you to keep the revs up a bit (but not as high as peaky Honda VTEC engines)

corkfish · July 2001

I have to agree that the turbo lag on this car was noticeable, even compared to my 1993 Sentra SE-R. 4th and 5th gears are basically worthless ( I floored it in 4th gear doing 65 and nothing happened!). It definitely requires a different syle of driving to extract the performance. It's still a great car, I just wish they'd get the turbo to spool at a lower rpm, or provide an engine with greater sub-3000 horsepower.

kostamojen2 · July 2001

Ive driven the WRX auto and riden in the WRX manual, and I definatly noticed the lack of low-end on the Auto... And I think its strickly an Auto problem.

However, The Turbo spool up sucks in stock form. I dont know how many people I have to say this too, but a boost controler be it manual or electronic does wonders for this problem and for the car... The spool up is about 500rpms sooner, and much more of a curve will less tail off at 6500-7000rpms (which it seems to like to do stock). And even an intake plus exhaust (like the Cobb exhaust) can totally change the charecter of the car at the lower end.

As for the 2002 RS vs. 2002 WRX, I just took a 4-hour trip in my cousins 02 RS and I think I can comment now

The RS definatly has more low-end grunt, especially up to around 2500rpms, but acceleration after that, especially in 3rd and 4th gear is a HUGE difference in the WRX! (not nearly much umph in the RS in that region)

What else do you want to know about the RS?

pattim3 · July 2001

is there an emoticon for hat tipping? If there is and I can't find it - hat's off to you for being a class act.

Patti

silver_bullet · July 2001

This may shock some people, but I think there's more to driving than getting to 60 as fast as possible. I'm interested in knowing if the handling, braking, and feel of the interior are similar between the two cars. I'm not a street racer, so how fast I get to 60 or 100 doesn't mean much, as long as merging onto a freeway isn't a suicidal act. In the real world, the ability to move from 30 to 50, or from 50 to 70 without a bunch of downshifting is more important.

vanillaeps · July 2001

kostamojen2,
I'd like to know how comfortable you felt in the '02 RS, how you liked the ride, were you able to listen to the stereo system, does it sound decent? Basically, can you give me specifics...

Alex

ateixeira · July 2001

Viggens are wild. There were a couple at the joint Subaru Club of America's and Central Penn Saab Club's 2001 Covered Bridge Tour.

Different price class, though. You could buy a WRX and have enough left over to buy an Impreza TS wagon for your wife.

Plus, the Viggen has no AWD drivetrain losses, so it should have an advantage in a perfectly straight line. Not around curves, though.

-juice

acepero · July 2001

How much are people paying to insure these Turbo charged cars....anyone give me a ballpark figure?

thecat · July 2001

Alex,

I'm paying $936 a yr. with GEICO but ......
Yeah there's always buts,
1. My car is insured for business use.
2. I have a clean driving record
3. I'm a geezer
4. I live in a rural part of Maryland

Since you live in N.Y. I would anticipate your prem. to be higher.

- hutch

lev_kuznetsov · July 2001

to the guy who proposed getting rid of the lag with a boost controller...

what boost controller does is lowers boost levels by opening a bypass valve so not to overspeed the turbo (long story made short: air goes faster than the speed of sound - bad things happen). this happens, obviosly, at high rpms, when the exhaust flow is huge. (saab has the knock sensor wired in there and things, but that's the basic reason for the boost controller)
The only way to counter lag (without ALS) is a smaller turbo, which obviosly drops maximum boost and top hp. titanium core turbos (evo7) ofcourse help, but still not that great. late supra has2 sequential turbos : 1 small, 1 big - that helps, to an extent. throttle response is no bmw there, and the manufacturing costs would send the scubbie in the big bucks.
Now what the Anti Lag System (bang-bang system) does is when you reapply the throttle, it leaves the exhaust valve open for a little bit, allowing the combustion mix go into the turbo and explode there. If you want to do a complete rebuild every ~150 miles...
That's the reason why subaru makes the 2.5 RS - for people who want to drive in a relaxed manner.
There's one more technology that could dramatically improve things with the turbo, but it's not here yet: saab's variable compression. a high pressure turbo engine would run high compression off-boost and the lower as the turbo spools up. street racer people would be happy of a 9.5 second car that doesn't stall at 1700 rpm

ateixeira · July 2001

Get both. Buy an RS and have Rallispec build up a turbo for you. Just budget time and money.

-juice

corduroygt · July 2001

Since turbo's are small, they would not require a lot of power to spin. How about hooking the electric motor for the turbo to a (bigger) battery and let it do the work before 3000 rpms, aftewr which the motor gradually shuts off and leaves it place to the exhaust pressure to spin the turbo.

acepero · July 2001

What's the general consensus....are people generally obtaining WRX(s) at or below MSRP?

guipo · July 2001

uhmmm....other than subaru, what oil filters work. either mobil 1 or acdelco ultraguard gold. if you know these part nums, please email me at mrguipo@hotmail.com

ateixeira · July 2001

Subaru uses Purolator as their supplier, so you can surely get an equivalent Purolator filter.

But dealers charge $5 or so, and it comes with a crush washer, so why bother.

-juice

Subaru Impreza WRX

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