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Squeaky
1. 83000 miles. I have owned the van since it was brand new.
2. Transmission fluid change by Chrysler dealer at 30k and 60K. ATF +4 always used.
3. Mixed hiway and street driving. Commute is 10 miles each way.
Here are the symptoms:
Check engine light came on two days ago. Yesterday on the freeway the engine was running fine, but when I pressed on the accelerator, only the RPMs increased. After about a half mile the van would no longer move. I had to have the vehicle towed home. This morning I drove it slowly to the mechanic. After about 1.5 miles I heard a whining noise.
The mechanic had a code reader. He had another shop tech test drive the van why the code reader was attached. He stated the 4th gear overdrive was showing 120lbs pressure??? which was excessive. He also said there were five different codes generated all started with a 7XX. When they checked the fluid, there was some small metal pieces in the Transmission fluid.
They told me it was time for a rebuild. Price quote was 2000 -2500 depending on what they found inside once it was tore down. What do you think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiCAJ8ULnaI
When I had a reman tranny installed, I had the "shudder" problem in my Town and Country on the downshift from 2nd to 3rd (between the 35 to 40 mph zone). My garage insisted it was a "ghost" in the tranny and had another one put in by the manufacturer. Guess what? Same problem. I suggested he have his mechanic take it to a regular tranny service center for a second opinion. He finally did, and found out the tranny mechanic (Bob's Transmission here in town) had a "Big Brother" diagnostic system to the one that was used on mine. Also a term called the "pinion factor" was in question as my mechanic had never heard of the term when he confiqured the first time. So there you have it...if this is your original transmission, it might just need an adjustment. Definitely needs one if it has just been installed. Hope this helps.
Squeaky4.
The transmission and engine are original, as are the front struts, and I've looked after the vehicle for the past few years with dealer maintenance in the early years.
Over the past year it has developed a shake under light or heavy acceleration that starts at 47mph and stops at 52mph. A year ago, when I first noticed the shake, it was at 37-45 mph.
The shake is not felt through the steering wheel and is very noticeable, shaking the GPS that is on a stalk from the windshield from side to side. The shake is engine speed related and does not change if I drop it a gear.
If I tap the brake when the shuddering happens, nothing changes.
If I back off of the accelerator and coast, the shuddering stops immediately. The shake is 100% reproducible, and perhaps slightly worse if the engine is warmed up.
Apart from the shake the transmission and engine perform perfectly. There are no unusual noises
I suspected the drivetrain, and to no avail have tried the following in the course of general maintenance and trying to solve this:
- rebalanced the front wheels
- checked rim run out
- changed the tires front to back, bought new ones, put on my snow wheels and tires
- changed both driveshafts for mopar remanufactured ones.
- checked there is no play in the inner CV joints
- rebuilt the brakes front and rear
- changed all 4 engine & transmission mounts
- changed 50% of the ATF fluid to ATF+4 (no problems evident in pan or on magnet)
- done a general service (plugs, O2 sensor, coil pack) to rule out any misfire
- changed front bottom ball joints, and tie rod ends
So, what remains is the brake rotors and the differential on the output side of the drivetrain.
My prime suspect is the diff, either the infamous pin is part way out & making it out of balance, or the bearings are allowing the diff to wobble.
Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Any other ideas or tests to try with the transmission in the car?
I might remove the diff cover next...
Thanks in advance!
Squeaky 4.
First of all, what you described sounds exactly like a very well known GM transmission problem with an electric torque converter switch. The way to confirm that on a GM veh is to simply unplug the connector on the switch & see if the problem disappears, & if it does, you just replace the switch & plug it back in.
Unfortunately, I do not think that test works on these vehicles, but it is very similar in nature. There is a sensor in the top of the transmission bell housing near the engine block.
Leaning over the driver's side fender, look down between the brake system master cylinder and the engine to the bell housing, on the side of the housing closest to the firewall. ( If I remember correctly, you may have to remove the air filter tube to the throttle body to see it & work on it).
Unplug the connectoer, & remove the switch from the housing and replace it.
The new sensor will have a paper disc glued onto the end of it that goes inside the transmission housing and that end senses the flywheel/ torque converter rotation. Do NOT remove the paper disc!!!!
It is a built in sensor spacer to adjust the gap, and it will be removed by the internal rotations and fall inside the housing.
After changing this sensor/switch, if you still have the problem, it would lead me to believe your problem in in the tranmission solenoid valve body bolted onto the front of the transmission infront of the filler tube.
These controlers have plastic/nylon valve bodies that are controled by electronic solenoids, and are very prone to going bad due to gumming up. I really do not think that is your problem though, because they usually cause shifting problems & slipping & banging during shifting as you drive when they go bad. They can also be quiet costly to replace, so when one of my 2 went bad, I ordered a factory rebuilt trans from a dealer in NJ that shipped it right to my home at about 1/2 the cost of a trans shop doing the job, & just changed the entire tranny myself as opposed to spending the $$$ on an expensive part just to have the gears go on me at some point.
I feel pretty confident that the sensor/switch is the source of your problem, & fortunately it is not real expensive or time consuming to swap it out.
Was driving fine but 3 weeks ago coming to a stop - Clunk. Another clunk on acceleration. Pulled into parking lot, tried all gears - OK. Drove fine again (3 weeks) until today.
Same clunk coming to a stop, then went 1/2 mile and lost Drive. Stopped, disconnected battery for 5 min, then seemed not have reverse but moved in low. Tried drive again but nothing, put in low and nothing. Turned off engine, restarted, put straight into low - drove 25 miles home at 20mph in low.
Am I all done? With these miles on it I can't justify $2500 - 4000 to fix, even tho engine and body are good.
Opinions? Thanks, Dave in Spokane.
I haven't found any part for a 4sp called a torque convertor control solenoid switch -- although there is one for a 3sp.
Today I swapped out the input and output vehicle speed sensors. They seemed clean enough. The problem may have reduced slightly but too much traffic got in the way of testing on my commute. It certainly has not gone.
The transmission control solenoids are in the range $104-140 on rockauto, so that might be the next step, per your suggestions.
Thanks again.
I need the car but there is no way I will buy a used transmission which will most likely have problems in the future. I saw one link of someone who replaced their transmission 2 times within 105,000 miles and now needed a 3rd.
I have one dodge grand caravan with some trouble that started lately, it's now reached 236k miles with very good engine no engine light on or anything !
The problem is when I start it in the cold weather like in the morning it will not engage on either reverse nor drive, I mean If I put it on R or D it will not engage even when I accelerate it does not do anything for at least 7-10 minutes after the engine heats up to above the C (about 10 minutes ) it will then shift to both reverse or Drive and drives with no problem at all and shifts very good, can't even tell when it shifts almost without looking at the RPM.
Now is this problem going to lead to more serious problem any suggestion there
Regards.
Shift lever moves, and isn't loose. You can feel it engage each gear like normal when using the selector, and the van feels like it wants to move, but when you release the brake slowly you get very little to no push back from the transmission, and the only noise when get is a 'slight' rattle when coming out of park and into reverse/D/3/L, but that sounds like its coming from the passenger side and its done that for a couple years now, thought that might be from the belt tension pully and only at low rpms. Feels like a manual clutch that slips. Axles and u-joints all look good.
I have also read something about retraining the TCM to fix similar issues since these transmissions are 100% computer controlled. My manual states I need to retrain after replacing solenoids. Does anyone know if this sounds like the case?
Thought it might be mechanical because of Park not working, but wasn't sure since the TCM controls all aspects of the transmission and can disable all gears to protect itself if there's a detected problem. Thanks for all your input.
1) It idles rough for a few minutes and I think this is its way of warming up quicker. It certainly gets up to operating temperature in good time. This may be on purpose.
2) It does lurch in reverse, it does so cold or warm, and it is MUCH more pronounced when backing up an incline. I don't like this and I hope its a software issue with the transmission. Feels like a manual transmission clutch pedal is being feathered in and out rapidly.
3) It shifts hard going from reverse to drive or drive to reverse, and I'm particular to make sure the vehicle is stopped when I reverse and want to change to forward. I even tried shifting to neutral first, then drive, does the same thing. Doesn't do it so bad going from drive to reverse if I stop for a couple seconds in neutral.
4) 1-2 shift is VERY harsh, like jamming a manual gearshift without trying to rev match. Wife keeps looking behind us to see if we got bumped by a tailgater. Yes, it's THAT bad. It feels like the WOT shift but happens that hard no matter the throttle application
5) Cruising on the highway with a full load is absolutely impossible without lots of shifting.
This is highway driving with a full load. Me and my wife as 245 and 205lb adults, 110 and 160lb for the 2 older kids, 30, 40, 45lb for the little kids, then figure 230lb electronics and luggage, total load 1055lbs plus varying amounts of fuel. You can set the cruise to 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 67, 59, 73, or whatever. It will downshift from 6th to 5th on Every Single Hill no matter what grade level. We took I-44 the whole way from Wichita Falls to St. Louis and it could not hold a steady speed. I am used to pushrod engines and 4-speed automatics in my family vehicles. Pontiac Trans Sport, Olds Silhouette, Chevy Astro, Ford Aerostar, Dodge Durango, Chevy Suburban, GMC Suburban, and now this minivan. This is the only one that couldn't decide what gear to be in. I tried it with Economy on or off. I tried running cruise with the AutoStick in 5 for one stretch and it STILL shifted up to 6th and back down to 5th on every hill. CRAZY! I will admit even with all the transmission problems, fuel mileage on 75mph Oklahoma roads was 23.10 up 23.67 back, 70mph Missouri roads was 23.43 up and 24.06 back. Half a tank of city driving in STL gave 18.75mpg. This is hand calculated. The trip computer was optimistic (add .5 to 1.5mpg in all cases, city being the worst offender).
I'm told there is a recall for programming on these vans for these transmission issues and the rough idle when cold. Rental car companies aren't quick to take vehicles in for recalls. At $60-$100 a day for rental charges I'm not surprised, but this would have been a much more solid experience if that had been done. I'll be bringing that point up when I return the van Monday.
The van was perfect other than the abnormal drivetrain issues. Climate controls were easy to use. The touchscreen stereo with Sirius radio and DVD player was perfect to keep the kids occupied. The $5 DVD bin at Wal-Mart scored us some Land Before Time sequels, Casper, and we dropped $15 on Cars 2. That kept everyone happy. There was PLENTY of space behind the 3rd row for two clothes baskets, two duffel bags, two shaving kits, two LARGE American Tourister hardsides and one medium off-brand hard sided case. All the coats and jackets and extra shoes and two laptop bags filled in the nooks and crannies and I had great vision out the back. The center console up front combined with the dash-mounted pullout gave us six cupholders up front as well as trays and cubbies for books, lighters, cigarettes, chargers, and phones. I particularly liked the small cubbies in the front doors to keep change/bills for tolls and parking garage/hotel room key cards handy. The large door pockets held notebooks and DVD cases just fine. I never used the conversation mirror because with the drivers seat all the way up and back I could only see half the kids. If I didn't want to be so tall it would have been more useful but I did use it for sunglasses storage until I left my sunglasses on a Phillips 66 gas pump in Lebanon MO on the way home. Power sliding doors and powered tailgate were very handy. Never tried the remote start, weather was too mild to care to use it. I like how the blinkers go 3 blinks if you only swipe the turn signal lever. The cross traffic and blind spot detection systems come in very nice for a giant van like this especially with the DVD screen down. The backup camera let me use every inch of tight downtown parking garage spaces when I chose to reverse into them. Also was nice parking parallel in downtown OKC on the way home.
This stock 3.6/6-speed powertrain just can't handle 7 people and luggage for Interstate driving with cruise on. 5th is 1.00:1 and 6th is 0.69:1 and that overdrive is too deep. 0.75:1 would eliminate this problem. I'd say change the final drive ratio but first is too short. The 62TE transmission has great close ratios from 2 to 5 but first is too short and 6th is too tall. They need to split 6th or something. If they can split 4th for upshifting vs WOT, why not 6th? Horsepower is great to brag about but as you can read here, it is pretty useless in the real world if the torque peak is too high. The 3.6L has 260lbs at 4400rpm. The old 4.0L has 259lbs at 4100rpm. I bet the 4.0L has WAY more torque at 1500-2000rpm than the 3.6L. And that's where the meat and potatoes are when driving on the highway. That's why my wife's 2000 model Durango with the 230hp 318 feels so strong. It has 300lbs of torque at merely 3200rpm. The 4.7L V8 had similar specs and 90% of its torque was available from 1600 to 6400rpm. The Pentastar designers should have paid more attention to Chrysler's past engines!
I still have the symptoms of vibration between 45 and 50mph when accelerating or under load. It is worse when taking a gentle left corner (freeway off-ramp) at speed than when turning a similar right corner.
Since the last posting, I have changed the transmission control solenoid and checked that the engine is centered relative to the driveshafts.
It was about 5mm different from side to side. I could push the driveshaft in about 22mm on the rhs and 27mm on the lhs. I have moved the engine about 3mm towards the lhs by undoing the right and front mounts but could not see any means to adjust the rear and left sides. The vibration did seem to reduce slightly.
Remaining ideas are:
- wheel bearings
- strut mounts
- differential pinion bearings -- anyone know if can I check for wobble by removing the rear cover with the transmission in the vehicle??
- put in another rh driveaxle despite have changed these once already - is this the most likely one??
We had a 2003 which is still going strong with over 120,000 mi on it and only thing replaced was brakes and a $200 part at the front of the trannie....
I was all prepared to get the transmission rebuilt when the mechanic insisted that it was the front right drive axle and that 're-manufactured was rarely good enough'.
I let him do his stuff and so far so good. No wonder Mopar got out of re-manufactured drive axles for this vehicle!
So two thumbs up for 'Auburn Drivetrain' in Auburn, WA who did the right thing for the customer and did the cheaper job for me!
most probably this thread is too stale for you to run intto this, but let me try.
I have also 2001 T&C AWD... and I wondered -- in your case, all wheels were properly rotated/the same diameter, weren't they?
Asking because in my case I started getting those codes shortly after swapping only 2 (front) tires with new ones, while keeping older ones (3 seasons on them iirc, snow tires) in the back. I think (since there might have been a slight of it after some work done by shop which involved taking off the power transfer unit) that since then I started to feel "unease" expressed in vibration especially when driving > 40mph.
Difference in grove depth was ~3mm (10mm new, 7mm old ones), which makes it to ~18mm (almost 2cm) difference in circumference.
I reset codes already twice and CEL seems to stay off until I hit a road with mph >50mph.
So I am considering now as a first measure to buy 2 more new tires so I have all exactly the same. Cons of this (besides wasting money) is that I am not sure why should it matter since if I read it correctly, bi-directional overrunning clutch in the rear differential should not even engage for my case, since due to bigger wheels upfront I have lower rotation speed there than in the back. So, theoretically, it should not put more stress on the system due to differing tires... but could I be wrong?
did you resolve your problem?
Replaced my two older (rear) tires with new ones to match 100% the front ones. It has been almost a week I think -- codes are gone, ride is much smoother, haven't experience any electric problems (before it could have speedometer start to hirratically jump, end up below 0 point needing recalibration of front pannel. In both cases that was followed with inability to start the car some time within 24h)
She has been a good vehicle...just have to make it last a few months longer!
kcram - Pickups/Wagons/Vans+Minivans Host
The problem was not evident when I test drove the car or when it was new, and with less than 22,000 miles on the car, I don't feel I should be experiencing such problems. I've taken the van in twice for warranty service and both times they kept the car for over a week and told me they reprogrammed the computer to "spec". The problem was the same as I drove away from the dealership, however, the service adviser told me the transmission adapts to my driving style so I should wait a few weeks before judging the repairs.
Any suggestions as to what the problem might be? Any recalls I might have missed? Or, any ideas on how to clear up this problem? I feel like I am getting the run-around from the dealership, so should I contact Customer Service at Chrysler headquarters? I'd welcome any advice.
-- Bill from Wayne, NJ
P.S. I recently attended a get-together of some friends and found I parked next to another 2011 T&C, same color but the Touring Model with lether seats. My friend says he has the same problems with his van.
There is a 'Customer Satisfaction' notice and update sent out to dealers about the transmission.
In Econo mode, it's actually skipping gears, going from first to third to fifth, to keep RPMs down and mileage up. It does shift a bit rougher than the normal mode and it takes some getting used to, but it does provide about 2-3 MPG better mileage.
The update from the dealer is supposed to cure some of the rough shifting.