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Lincoln LS

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Comments

  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    Minnesota dealer stocking Manuals??? Here in San Diego, at the largest LM dealer in California, sold around 8 manuals in all of 2000, and will not stock a Manual. I ordered mine "blind". Poor thing sat in an LA dealers lot for 4 months before I rescued it. Here in the "car culture" capital of the world, the LS Manual is banned from public view. Congratulations on swimming against the current. And your dealer should be awarded for being brave and non-conformist. I hope he sells lots of Manuals.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    1. LS
    2. Not important to me.
    3. Early 90's 535i with manual/LSD; G35 w 6 speed/LSD
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Great! Now Lincoln can stop doing those silly market studies and just go build it! We're waiting......
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    IMO, the A6 has a magnificent interior. Well thought out in terms of layout, materials, and refinement. The gages look sophisticated, precise, easy to read, and are ergonomically placed. Storage is plentiful and well concealed, yet easy to access. Materials are first rate everywhere you look from the vinyl dash, leather seats (soft AND durable), thick carpeting, wood (or wud?) and aluminum trim. The layout is simple, contemporary and intuitive.

    The LSs exterior is my favorite in the 4-door sedan class, bar none. The interior, while not bad by any stretch of the imagination, is clearly the LSs weakest aspect. I'm not fond of the primary gages (speedo and tach) at all, but at least their positioned correctly. Seat comfort, on the other hand, is top notch . . . even better than the A6. Clearly, the relative weakness of the LSs interior design did not disway me from buying and loving this car.

    Couple the LS exterior with the A6 interior and the Jag powertrain, and you'd have one helluva car! Alas, patience . . . I think Lincoln's cooking up something sweet for us . . . Mania 3 anyone?

    LLSOC Charter Member - Attendee of Mania events 1, 2 & soon to be 3!
    (hey Artie, don't forget your sunglasses! ;-)
  • lsismorelsismore Member Posts: 70
    Of course it will take much more to unseat the stately M5 but the LS seems to be in place to start especially with more power and added looks.

    1. LS without a doubt
    2. I will have to answer with a future model, the Cadillac CTS. Hope that is fair enough
    3.I like the A6 quattro
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Whew! For a second there I got confused and thought you were asking for the CTS EXTERIOR styling, but then I realized it was interior. From the pictures I've seen I have to say it's a step up from the usual GM interior but do you really like it better than say, an Audi interior? Lutz hates it and already ordered a hasty redesign.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Here's a LS review from back in 99 that I don't think has been posted before. I stumbled onto it while reading a review of the X-type.


    http://www.thecarplace.com/linls.htm


    Very interesting piece towards the end about the "leaping greyhound".

  • lsismorelsismore Member Posts: 70
    I absolutely love the audi a6 and a8 inside and out but I have been trying to retrain my mind to only want american built autos. I have owned many different cars all of them foreign. So if I pretend they don't exist it make it easier to choose domestic cars. The LS is my first american built car and sad to say but I fell in love with it only because it looked good. Maybe ford could buy Audi and drop the LS body on the A6 quattro chasis and power train.

    Bottom line the LS could use some more attention on the inside.

    I just made my own mod to my air box and ordered a k&n filter but what a difference in sound from under the hood. I am thinking Borla next do i need to be talked out of it....?
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    I've said this before, but its been awhile, so I'll add my 2¢ worth. The Audi A6 is a gorgeous car, particularly the interior. The exterior is attractive also, but sometimes looks a little too sterile. The quattro system is fantastic, but it adds a few hundred pounds to the overall curb weight. Further, in base form, the A6 is a FWD platform, and thus tends to be nose heavy, and not as well balanced as the LS. In order to get an A6 quattro moving reasonably well, you really need to go with the 2.7T V6 engine or the 4.2 V8. Unfortunately, these engine combos will significantly add to A6 price tag.

    Given that the LS is a better balanced platform any way you slice it, and the LS V8 engine is as powerful as the A62.7T, IMO, the LS represents the better overall sports sedan package and can be had for about $5K less. One could make the argument that the A6 has the better interior, but it's not $5K better!

    I'll take (or, actually took) the handling prowess of the LS over the A6 anytime!

    Now, if Lincoln would only drop in a 400 HP V8 into the LS as well as the Jag (without throwing off the weight balance), we'd be in M5 territory.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Speaking of silly surveys, I'm wondering if folks may want to contribute to a survey on their 3 favorite features of the LS and the 3 they'd most like to see improved. If enuf folks contribute, I could gather the information and Brian could pass it to Lincoln at Mania 3. My list:

    3 Best features

    - Styling, all except rear end, and especially the profile.
    - Tilt/telescope steering wheel.
    - Handling, fun-to-drive.

    3 I'd like to see improved

    - Better performance for manual (>250hp, 6speed)
    - Upgraded interior (better materials, more zest to instrumentation, add oil pressure and battery guages)
    - Add the trip computer to the V6
  • brunobusbrunobus Member Posts: 77
    Exterior, well nothing can compare to a Ferrari, but for something more on a realistic price scale, the MB CLK has the best looking exterior, but alas does not have four doors. So the LS is definitely my choice.

    The CLK interior, especially on the AMG models, is quite cool. The Audi TT is nice too. Haven't really paid much attention to many others though, so I can't really say.

    Any of the German's powertrains are hard to beat when they are either M'd or AMG'd. Of course, those are also probably the only true sports sedans (i.e. a sedan that can actually compete against a sports car like a Porsche or Vette). The rest are only sporty luxury sedans (the LS included).
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    1. Handling
    2. Looks
    3. Rear Wheel Drive

    1. Power
    2. 6 Speed or 5 Speed w/overdrive
    3. Torsen LSD
    4. 3:58 Rear
  • lsismorelsismore Member Posts: 70
    3 Best features
    1Handling ( this car is as sure footed as a Llama )
    2Dual power seats w/ driver memory
    3Curb appeal

    3 I'd like to see improved
    1Power ( give us something that can make euro sedans weap)
    2spruce up the interior ( not by much )
    3Move those bloody cup holders out of the way.
  • dbossmandbossman Member Posts: 28
    Just had the LS in for service. Does not appear they were able to track down the "Gear Select Data Error" that is displayed on the message center about once a week.

    I'm certain I've seen this discussed before, can someone remind me what the fix was?
  • keyrowkeyrow Member Posts: 214
    My 3 best features:
    1. Handling
    2. The absolutely most comfortable seats bar none.
    3. Styling (I am a fan of understated elegance)

    3 items I would improve:
    1. Better quality materials (ie Audi leather, real wood, etc.)
    2. More power. (Jag owners don't care as indicated by the fact that none of their discussions ever mention it.)
    3. V8 6M with LSD. Please, Please, Please, Please!
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    There isn't one. IIRC, it is a momentary lack of communication in the powertrain control system, and the only "defect" is that it happens to be brought to the driver's attention via the message center. It's not a problem, and it does not generate any codes that a service tech can detect and analyze. If there's a "fix" in later models, I'll bet it's to modify the message center to ignore whatever prompts the message.

    Lousy answer, eh? My '00 does it once or twice a month, usually at a steady cruise. After 38k miles, with one rear window regulator as the only mechanical problem, I don't give it a thought.

    Think I'll leave the survey alone. I have at least six or eight "favorites", and am hard pressed to come up with more than two serious suggestions for improvement. And they've all been covered.

    On second thought, in light of the recently introduced Cadillac CTS, here's one of my top three features of the LS: Styling. And, a suggestion for improvement, sort of: Don't seriously mess with it! And never, ever, build anything that remotely resembles Cadillac's Luxury Sport Aztec lookalike.:)

    Scott
    LLSOC Member
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think you're referring to the "mystery beeps" that normally don't allow you to see the error message. If it disappears quickly then it's nothing to worry about. I think it's most likely a software problem, probably a timeout in communications. It's been there since the very beginning and has caused no problems. OTOH if the message is appearing and staying displayed that may be an actual problem that your dealer should be able to easily diagnose.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    Three Best:
    Ride/handling balance
    Solid and substantial feel
    Engine sound at 6500 RPM

    Improvements desired:
    More power and low-end torque (displacement increase and VVT)
    Better quality interior materials
    A bit more aggressive exterior styling
  • keyrowkeyrow Member Posts: 214
    I just noticed that Edmunds has our favorite car's TMV listed at $20.00 under invoice. Is this a fiar price and do you think that the '03 modifications are the reason that many are shying away? Personally, if I was in the market for a new car and the LS was at the top of my list, I would wait for the improvements IF I could wait and I didn't need a car RIGHT NOW. What do "y'all" think? On the other hand, the new Infiniti G35 seems awfully nice!
  • raymmerraymmer Member Posts: 16
    Just today I got rid of my 2001 LS Sport for a 2000 Mercedes-Benz S-500! I had the one that has had the 'alternator whine' from day one which I thought shouldn't have been there, but was! I love my new 'benz' and it is just as quiet as it's suppose to be! Good luck with your cars but although I did enjoy some aspects of the car, I am not sorry to see it go!

    RRS
    Former charter member of LLSOC!
  • ronniepoohronniepooh Member Posts: 339
    just traded my LS for the new Ferrari 360 Modena! Loved the LS but just wasnt the right color. ;-)
  • lolaj42lolaj42 Member Posts: 420
    Best Attributes:
    1. Exterior Styling
    2. Ride/Handling
    3. Occupant Comfort/Roominess

    Needs Improvement:
    1. Better Primary Gages (Speedo & Tach)
    2. Interior Design & Materials (Including Trunk Liner)
    3. Engine Refinement & Power
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    I'm thinking along the same lines. Color is fine, but the ashtray is almost full. Can you get the Modena with the Firehawks on it? :)
  • cclittlecclittle Member Posts: 23
    I thought 2002 was the last year for those? The Townhall people need to update their list for the "Car you wish to buy" in the profiles editor -or maybe they know something we don't? :)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'll pass that on.

    Just for everyone's information, there is a link to "Online Support" on the Town Hall Welcome page - that's a good place to report things like this.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Center
  • chartrandchartrand Member Posts: 139
    Wow, is all I can say to the response of the Michelin Pilots. Had them put on yesterday after one too many flats in a week of rain in Texas. My stones were 5K past bald and I left my wife to drive on them while I enjoyed sunny San Diego last week. I was planning to buy from the Tire Rack and have them shipped. When you step off a plane to a tirade of complaints from leaving your spouse on bald tires, you stop on the way home from the airport and make amends.
    I wanted the Pilots but considered them out of my price range. Sears had them for on sale for $109. In addition I got road hazard which doesn't come with a mail order tire.
    The turn in is like someone put a new suspension under the car. Much quieter as well. Now I hope they'll outlast the stones that were great for 20K.
    Ray
    LLSOC charter member
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    Are these like the Pilots Brian has? I thought those puppies are like $240 a piece? And only 20k from the Stones? I have 22k on my Stones and I am a Manual Maniac. Plan to burn them out at Mania 3 as "slicks". You must get great tire deals AND have a lot of fun.
  • pdhenrypdhenry Member Posts: 8
    I hear you regarding the significant improvement obtained by replacing the beyond-bald 'Stones with new Michelins, but IMHO that has as much to do with the age of the old tires as with any quality difference between the two brands.

    I replaced 4-year old Goodyears on the old Voyager with the cheapest thing I could find at Sam's Club (BF Goodrich Advantage Plus, for what it's worth...) and felt the same way - "Hey these sure are quiet, and now I can go around curves faster than 35 mph!"

    Still have good tread on the LS OEM Firehawks at 21K miles, but I'm considering getting another set from the Tire Rack and storing them until they're needed. Any thoughts on how long they'll last at that price?

    Pete H.
  • rgnmstrrgnmstr Member Posts: 226
    Best Attributes:
    1. V8, rear wheel drive
    2. Handling/ride
    3. Comfort

    Things I'd like to see:
    1. More horsepower
    2. 2 door coupe (if they don't do this I'll have the 2002 for 9 more years.
    3. Exterior styling all to it's own. Keep the understated look but make it a tad more aggressive in appearance and eliminate the things that make you have to look twice to make sure your not observing a Mitsubishi Deliant or whatever it is.
  • goodyrlgoodyrl Member Posts: 83
    If I had the dough I'd go for one like the black one GIOWA got itis awesome. No comparison ride for ride IMHO. Maybe Ill be able to afford one of those $60K beauties next year when I trade.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    At the price of the Stones, we can drive like 16 year olds and not care about tire wear. I hope they stay at $69.00. I tried to buy less expensive tires for my wife's Volvo 960 Wagon at Costco and they said they didn't have the right speed rating and I had to spend $137 per instead. Way over $500 out the door. And they won't last much longer than the Stones (Michelin MXV4 Plus, just like the last set).
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    Of course we would all like an M5. Even if I wanted to make the payments, the maintainance would probably kill me. A used one would have to have a good warranty. Otherwise, I'd just be getting some rich kid's worn out toy when the ashtray got full. The price of a rebuild on the Getrag six-speed would require a second on the house. With the LS, I get the 3 year lease, I run the Manias and do Solo2, turn it in in 3 years without replacing the clutch, fan belts, or belts, and get a new race car. Sort of like the guy with the M5, just on a smaller scale, but my ashtray never gets used.
  • slunarslunar Member Posts: 479
    My LS is at the dealer and they gave me a 2001 Town Car loaner. To this point I havn't really understood why anyone would buy a Town Car. It just magnifies the culture shock the dealer sales people are having adjusting to with the LS.

    Anyway, after putting 150 miles on the Town Car loaner I now get it. With the 2001 Town Car Lincoln has successfully emulated the 1967 Ford LTD my father had when I was a kid. The TC floats and wollows around just like that 35 year old beast. It's just like that '67 Ford was back from the dead only recreated with climate control and cup holders. The heavy nose dive on the TC, when you touch the brakes, is awesome, a real 1960's throwback along with the completly numb steering feel. By the way, feel free to scold me if I complain about my LS's cup holders again. Even the original LS's cup holders are magnificant compared to useless holders on the TC (as attested to by the coffee spilled all over the place from previous drivers of the TC loaner).
    The guy at the dealer acted like was doing me a big favor giving me the TC. Given the choice I'll take a Sable next time.
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    Now have an Jaguar X-Type, 3.0. LM dealer had several 3.0s with stick shifts but no LSs. He says the buyers of the X-Type are a "different breed" and much younger with many demanding sticks. Drove it home through the curves of Hwy 60 between Riverside and Banning and it handled very well at ridiculous speeds. Still....... not sure if it could keep up with my V6 LS. I will come back to the board with some comparisons after I get a few miles under my belt.
  • lsismorelsismore Member Posts: 70
    I modified my airbox by removing the plastice tube and hmm.. drilled 1/4" holes in the from about 20 of them... I have since noticed a knock and am wondering if it is related and did i screw up big. I have only heard it twice and usually happens from sitting at a traffice light and departing like a rabbit.... TIA
  • babickababicka Member Posts: 60
    Great story on PAG sales and Lincoln LS in Forbes.

    The author Jerry Flints makes some great lines here.


    http://forbes.com/2001/11/19/1119flint.html

  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    I assume you're using at least 91 octane fuel. I removed most of the front of my airbox (LS1bmw0 removed most of the bottom of his, leaving just the back portion where the locating pin is) and I haven't heard any knocking at all. And that is on what is called 91 octane in The Peoples Republic of California.
  • lsismorelsismore Member Posts: 70
    I use 93 octane and I have ordered a K&N Friday and hope to have it in by tuesday. From your comment about the gas in california it doesnt sound like you are getting your moneys worth. Do you guys have shall I say it...for a lack of a more technical term, bad gas? I have about 45k miles on the car to and I know I need to have the oil changed can you recommend a fine vitage crude oil for the lSV6? thanks again.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    If you have a Costco around, it's hard to beat a case of 10-30 Mobil 1 for $21.99 (six bottles). But if you want the best, look up a AMSOIL dealer in the white pages and get AMSOIL 100% Synthetic 10-30 Turbo. You shouldn't have to do more than 2 or 3 oil changes a year if you use the increased depth AMSOIL spin-on filter as well. If you have been using dino oil, you may have to step up the changes as all that garbage gets cleaned out of the engine. AMSOIL makes a crankcase cleaner but many shops offer the Bilstein Engine Cleaner machine method for about $100 and it's worth it. Dino oil leaves lots of residue because it has water, asphalt and wax in it that can't be refined out. Syn oil is built molecule by molecule for lubrication and needs few additives. Dino oil is up to 40 % additives. Syn oil keeps it's viscosity longer. Dino oil can get thick with age when the viscosity improvers wear out.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    I use Mobil1 either 5W-30 or 10W-30 and their filter. I prefer the extra protection synthetic provides, along with the longer drain intervals.
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    Mike - our highly modified and free-breathing Duratechs deserve the superior qualities of Synthetic oil!
  • leadfoot4leadfoot4 Member Posts: 593
    It seems that a few of the original posters here are now at the end of their leases, and are not replacing their LSs with another. It seems rather odd, since so many seem to truly like the cars, but won't get another one. What's up??
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    I guess they haven't heard about the 2003 LS! Probably not going to Mania 3 to find out, either.
    Leasers think short-term and like new things to try. It looks like the previous poster with the new Jag isn't that happy. Brand loyalty is a fickle thing, and leases enable, almost force people to make frequent decisions about their rides. I think buyers make more studied decisions for the long term.
    Three years ago, the LS value decision was a no brainer. The only V-8 in the class and only the 2nd RWD 4 door Manual outside of the propeller badged monopoly for 15 years.
    Recently, the CTS and IS300 have joined the Manual club in the same price range. The CTS also has great handling but for this year only it features the old Opel 54 degree V-6. Next year the "Shortstar" could change the quirky stature of this car to full bore competition. The IS300 is small and fairly stark and has not had the success Lexus hoped for.
    The real megaton bomb in this segment arrives soon at your local Infinity dealer, starting at $27,000. But if the dealers sniff what I think is going to be a runaway best seller, they will load up these babies with every option and you will see a repeat of what happened in 1970 with the first 240Zs. Price Gouging. When the smoke clears later in the year, The six-speed Manual edition will arrive, and if Nissan doesn't do their power inflation routine, 260hp and 260 ft lbs of torque should make their new G35 a poor man's 540i-6. We are talking about low to mid six-second 0-60 and probably pretty good handling. Called the Skyline in Japan, this platform has been refined for decades.
    I don't think any LS owner has jumped for this car yet, as dealers are only taking deposits. It is a smaller car than the LS, and I have not seen a road test yet. But I think this is the car to watch. I think that this car may be the first RWD, 4 door, manual sports sedan outside the 540i-6 and M3/M5 to have the proper transmission ratios including a real overdrive and a rear end with limited slip.
    I see the low 30k range as where the fire is, and I'm sure the midnight oil is burning somewhere in Detroit (or Dearborn) to evaluate all this before we do. They have been firing the engineers back there but they need to get rid of the real dead weight of all the "marketing" types. BMW calls themselves "an engineering company that happens to build cars". I think Detroit needs to let the engineers rule. I don't think they let the "marketing guys" design fighter planes. If they did, we would be speaking German right now. Ok, I'll put my asbestos underwear on.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Forgot where I read this:

    A German plane was leaving a German airport and the German pilot asked for clearance in German. The German controller replied in English that he must speak English to get clearance. The pilot asked why a German in a German airplane in a German airport had to ask for clearance in English?

    A British pilot promptly replied "Because you lost the bloody war!".
  • sdouglas2sdouglas2 Member Posts: 20
    One clarification; the "Shortstar" is different than the engine that's slated to go into the CTS and nearly every GM car in the future. The new engine is dubbed "Electron" and has many different formats planned. Regardless of what it is, it will be stiff competition.

    Anyone notice Car & Driver ranked the 2003 CTS only five points better than the 2001 LS it tested? Boy, Cadillac really "Burst" onto the scene with the CTS...
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    German ground controller (at Düsseldorf) got seriously peeved when a British Airways (alias Speedbird) pilot asked for specific directions to his gate. They expected you to know where you were going and how to get there. He asked, "Speedbird, haven't you been here before?" To which the pilot replied, "Yea, but I just flew over didn't stop!"
  • matt1972matt1972 Member Posts: 8
    Ok, I have a problem that is annoying the heck out of me. My car will not start after sitting for about an hour. I have to hold the gas pedal down and turn the key to start it. The dealer just called me and said that Ford is aware of the problem and that they are thinking there is a problem with fuel mixture. The service writer told me that Ford was having cars with this problem in Detroit brought back to have them look at it. He said that there is no fix currently. How can a $40,000 car not start on the first turn of the key? They had replaced the harness as I also had the flashing PATS light issue.

    Has anyone else had this problem and if so, was there any fix? I was also told that this was related to the temperature being between 30-40 degrees and in Chicago it was 65 this past weekend and it still did it.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Matt
  • stanny1stanny1 Member Posts: 962
    I'm glad you are still around! I was afraid you were gone in the last purge - manual platform engineers being such disposable entities in
    America. Yes, I stand corrected on the Caddy engine. The guys and the 14 year old girl on the CTS forum throw the "Shortstar" term around but I guess it was never really built. I would really regret buying the first year of the CTS with a "temporary" engine. And I do feel slighted by the C&D test. Besides the obvious fact that they left the boat trailer attached during the 0-60 run, how could they compare a FWD Saab with the LS? And I really doubt if I will ever see a Manual CTS in my lifetime. I don't think the dealers will stock the CTS manual, and the salepeople won't be of much help in selling "the [non-permissible content removed] Caddy". This will probably be the first and last manual since the Cimmaron debacle. And it will take someone really unique to like the styling. It's butt ugly from the front!
    Please, Scooter, pick up the pieces, throw off the chains and let's rock and roll (or is that Autocad now). I wish you could come out to Mania 3. You could drive some of the club member's "modified" LSes.
  • swaugerswauger Member Posts: 91
    There used to be a sign at the local Mercedes dealer written in German. Can't recall the German now (high school German was a long time ago), but when you translated it, it read:

    "Why keep it simple when expensive and complicated works just as well."

    Quite a hoot, unless it's your wallet! There also used to be a garage here that fixed imports that had lists of the makes (Jag, BMW, Alfa, etc.) around the top of the store. The "Fiat" logo had been crudely painted over, really just x'ed out by someone who appeared to be PO'd at the time, and they wouldn't even touch a Fiat.
  • normanr2normanr2 Member Posts: 6
    I agree with stann1's "marketing types" comment with an addition. Don't forget the beancounters. They seem to have the real power in saying what gets built by controlling how much a car company can spend to build a car. We SHO owners know this from firsthand experience. For only $1000 to $1500 more we can add moderate suspension, brake, tire and intake updates that make a big difference in the handling and performance of this car. We're sure the engineers had something like these upgrades planned as standard equipment until the accounting group crunched the numbers and made them shave a few bucks of each car. I can imagine the LS engineers are facing the same realities.
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