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Chrysler 300M

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Comments

  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    The dealer orignially said it owuld be about $3,000 (including the towing charges). He dropped to a little over $2,200. I picked it up today - new tranny seems good...I did notice that it seems to have more "oomph" in the 50+ passing range. But there is some godawful sqeaking and squawking coming from the front end, so I'm taking it back in tomorrow and hoping that it's got something to do with the thing I just paid 2 grand to fix. The upside is, I've got a 3 year 36K mile "drivetrain" warranty now. And for the record, my dealer has been every one of his "5 stars". My problem right now is with Chrysler...not the dealership. They've been great. Keystone Chrysler in MIssion Kansas for anyone in the KC area.
  • fuzzywuzzyfuzzywuzzy Member Posts: 958
    Your car didn't have that 7 year power train warranty?
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    no...it was a 1999. I can't remember what year they decided to market the 7/70 warranty, but I plan on writing Chrysler and asking them what differences there are in the drivetrain of a 99 model and the drivetrain of the other models that would warrant no extended coverage for owners who bought 1999's without the incentive of a longer warranty. I don't plan on holding my breath for a favorable response, but you never know til you try.
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    Sorry to hear about your tranny. Yours is a real exception -- I haven't heard of 300M mechanical transmission failures.

    I wish you luck with Chrysler on the extended warranty issue. I have found DC to be very bureaucatic on these issues.

    When I bought my 2003 M to replace the 2000 M I had on lease, there literally was a $500 rebate form in the mail to me. It was a specific rebate to encourage existing customers to stay with DC. When I received the rebate form a few days after I bought the 2003 M, I sent a letter to DC asking them to honor the rebate as it was obviously sent to me to use for a new purchase. I got the Corporate response about how these rebates are regional responses to changing market conditions and were not retroactive to any prior sales.

    I stated in my letter to them that as a valued repeat DC customer (last 5 cars) that I would hope they would make an exception to maintain our relationship, but no dice. For $500 (that they were going to give to me anyway) they effectively terminated an ongoing relationship with me.

    Go figure!
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,684
    My '99 M sits in the lot here at work with 55,555 miles on the odometer. She's lookin'(when not covered in winter grime) and runnin' great (knock plood)! Still all original oem stuff, except for two newer Goodyears (up front) and, of course, all the sheetmetal from the doors forward courtesy of being backed over by a school bus!

    Although I still haven't seen one in the flesh, and while certainly not as handsome as our Ms, I think the 300C is growing on me... not the grille, though.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    Good news that you got it fixed...about the squeak, well, I hope you get it resolved. I'm 16, wouldn't want that to happen to my 300M...Ouch, thanks for posting the pirce, I was always curious. That's a lot...but the 300M tranny is a beautiful piece of engineering in my opinion, handles the car and its size just perfectly! What kind of conditions did you put on the 300M tranny of yours pjyoung. Any racing? Any ideas from what it could have happened from?
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    Hey everyone. Hope you are all doing well. Just out of curiousity...whenever I drive the 300M and come to a stop, on AUTOSTICK, and I want to shift from 2nd gear to first, when I do it, the car seems to loose power and cut off...(1500 is the time I do downshift, or lower)...Am I just suposed to stop on 2nd gear and let the car change to first by itself? Any place where I can read about AUTOSTICK more? Thanks.
  • bigmike5bigmike5 Member Posts: 960
    I have been doing this for almost six years nowand here is my experience. I never downshift into first with the autostick unless I am barely moving like almost stopped at a light and it changes. Otherwise, you get a jolt as first grabs.I have found that as you slow down close to a stop sometimes it shifts to first on its own and sometimes it doesn't so I am always careful to check, although it is ok to start out in 2nd in most circumstances, but you don't get the big acceleration off the line if you do that. At least one other person who used to post here--Blonda--had the same experience with the autostick dropping into first sometimes and not doing so other times at a stop. Now I just am real careful about checking it when I stop. I have also found that if you are under load--going up an incline for instance, and you want to shift from 3rd to 4th, it will not do it until it is not under load. However, it is so smooth in 3rd, that sometimes I didn't notice that it hadn't upshifted, and the resulting downshift entering a corner or at a light resulted in an unintentional shift from 3rd to 1st instead of from 4th to 2nd. At 20 mph you can get a headbang on the steering wheel when 1st kicks in unexpectedly. You just have to be sure that the tranny has shifted up to 4th when you think it has, otherwise....
  • beespecialbeespecial Member Posts: 69
    55K miles on a 99? You must live really close to your work. That averages to 11 - 13K per year depending on when you got it. Lucky you! I just today rolled over to 20K on my '03 and I've only had it 14 months. The up-side is I get to enjoy driving my M a lot but the down-side is it's aging it waaaay faster than I want. I guess that's the price I have to pay for living so far
    from my job. But at least I have a great car to get there.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    No racing. Yes, I used it's acceleration to get on freeways, but at 46, I'm a tad too old to be a street racer. And yes, I would cruise on the interstate at 80-90 - but I thought that's what it was designed to do. Bottom line, it was used as a good looking "go to work" car.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,684
    Yup. My weekly commute, including morning trips to daycare is around 220 miles. We're a two car family, so miles are distributed pretty evenly between the two. And it is a great car, which is why PJ's situation is even more depressing. I think, unfortunately, that his was the exception, not the rule.

    One of tha main bummers of winter in the northeast is a semi-constantly dirty car...

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • psterpster Member Posts: 293
    With $5500 in repairs on my 1999 300M I swore off Chrysler forever....but as they say "never say never". Although I think the front end of the new 300C just sucks, if they are offering the hemi V8 at $33/$34,000, that's enticing. But....I learned my lesson with first year Chrylsers and will likely stand by my conviction that even if I loved it, I won't do it unless the dealer "substantially discounts" a long term mechanical warranty. Because I realize there is another old saw..."once burned....". But I prefer to always keep my eys open to the possibilities of automotive redemption.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    Picked it up today and all is well. But I do have to share this story with all of you, since I have seen references to "one star" or "no star" dealerships. The dealership who worked on my 300M's transmission is Keystone Chrysler in Mission Kansas. While I am not real pleased with Chrysler right now, the treatment from the dealership has been every bit of a 5 star experience. First, when I quoted him the AAmco price to replace the transmission over the phone, nothing in writing, he checked something, and within minutes, approved it to be done for that price. When I picked it up Wednesday and noticed a squeaking and squealing noise, I took it back Thursday morning. They weren't able to get to it Thursday, and they didn't have any loaner cars on the lot, so they called Enterprise rent a car and paid for a car for the night. Today, they called about one and told me it was ready...there apparently was a cover that got knocked and was rubbing by the brake rotors. So they pulled the wheels and inspected to brakes to insure that they were not damaged (they weren't). When the Enterprise folks dropped me off, the service manager was there...I asked if I needed to go to the cashier and he said, "Well, they have some paperwork they'd like you to sign...but I have your keys...so take it...it's yours."

    I don't know if I will buy another Chrysler...I had a bad experience with an 84 Dodge and didn't by another Mopar until 99. But we'll see...maybe my tranny was the exception - which from what I see on this board it is - but if I DO buy another Chrysler, there is no doubt in my mind where I will buy it. Kudos to Keystone.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    I never used Autostick in my 300M to downshift from 2 to 1 when coming to a complete stop. It downshifts by itself just fine.
  • bluesky999bluesky999 Member Posts: 253
    Pster,

    Don't do it; remember you have to look at it each morning when you walk out into the garage--it would be like marrying a woman whose appearance you couldn't stomach (I'm talking about buying the 300C). My unrequested advice is to go to your nearest Cadillac dealer and take the 3.6 CTS for a spin. It's a BMW 5 series for the price of a 3 series. Cadillac's bumper to bumper warranty is longer than DC, and GM quality leaves DC in the dust IMO. DMC is the only manufacturer I've heard of who can't even get their electric window motors right. Don't do it--it's too ugly to live with. You'll get ill and despise your life! OK, maybe I'm overstating a tad.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the CTS, IMHO, is what some of my buddies might call a "two bagger", were they describing a woman. She may be able to cook like Emeril, but if she looks like Michael Jackson with all the sharp points all over, I dunno...I just don't think I could take her out.
  • bluesky999bluesky999 Member Posts: 253
    Piyoung,

    I respect your opinion, but I'm curious--do you like the 300C look better than the CTS? Some people, myself included, have warmed up to the look of the CTS over time. My post was very opinionated and biased against the 300C, so I expect to get flamed a bit, unless most people just don't want to defend the 300Cs looks.

    My friend has an '02 Town and Country van that has had a lot of problems. She is going to sell it already for that reason. On the other hand I know someone at work who bought a Pacifica and likes it a lot. I'm curious to see if the Pacifica finally reaches the quality levels the DMC should be at. I'm surprised they're not out of business already with their quality problems from the past.
  • pjyoungpjyoung Member Posts: 885
    Try as I might to like the CTS, there are just way too many angles on that car for my tastes. I don't care for the front end on the 300C either. Both cars, IMHO are "two baggers". When the first photos of the 300C came out, I posted that I felt the front end was "truck like". It just doesn't lend itself a "sporty" look, while the CTS seems to try too hard to be "sporty" - the CTS reminds me of one of those "transformer" toys...the car that converts into a robot.
  • psterpster Member Posts: 293
    The prices Cadillac wants for its cars are outrageous for what are essentially guzzied up Chevrolets. I consider the CTS grossly overpriced, and it ain't winning any beauty contests itself.
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    I agree with all of you that don't really favor the 300C's new looks. First of all, I hate the fact that DC is going to offer it in different engine sizes etc. because I think that any car which has the "300" label on it deserves to be a powerful vehicle. People are going to be buying the less powerful engines and still be driving the 300, don't agree at all. The 300M was a beautiful car with the sexiest design ever. I'm only 16 but I remember looking at it for many years, starting since its original production year until 2002 when I got my very own 2002 300M Pro-AM Edition. The 300M has the "bulletproof" image and respect attached to it. As far as the 300C, it might be a very good car; however, DC has certainly made a huge leap and changed the cars image completely. It's an American vehicle trying to portray the image of a Bentley or something with the front end of a Truck...why didn't DC just put the front end of a Toyota Taundra, maybe it would look better. Overal, I still respect the 300C for what it is...However, it shouldn't have been crowned as the "300" because the real 300 was and still is the M. The C, doesn't, in no way, compare to the bulletproof vehicle DC made for quite a few years.
  • psterpster Member Posts: 293
    "The 300M has the "bulletproof" image and respect attached to it."

    There are those that would beg to differ:

    Mechanical problems experienced between 36-51K miles on 1999 300M with PH group (total owner cost out of pocket $5,500):

    Broken shift cable
    Two failed electric cooling fans
    Two failed window motors
    Failed, and continuing to fail, a/c compressor
    Leaking A/C system
    Failed steering pump
    Failed transmission speed sensor
    Catastrophic failure of transmission hydraulic pump (requiring call to Detroit to diagnose)

    Chrylser products are are all spit and shine and great design but have no legs. The experience of this driver.
  • fastdriver2fastdriver2 Member Posts: 19
    pster-

    I bet you have spent less on your 1994 Toyota Camry LXE then you have on your 99 Chrysler.

    fastdriver
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    pster I respect everyone on this forum for their opinions and what they would like to say. However, my point which I was trying to make was that the 300C is in no way going to compare to the 300M. "Bulletproof" I would like to see the 300C survive the and beat the 300M's production years. They are already cheapening it out by the engine sizes, lowering the respect of the "300" badging so that even low-class people could afford it. The 300M was a "bulletproof" vehicle based on Design and it stood up for it's name. The 300C, well it will be "used" as a vehicle for entire society, the 300M had its dedicated owners and that's why it held its respect. As far as your mechanical problems...I don't want to offend anyone, however, we all drive Chrysler vehicles. This post might be removed, but everyone that does buy a Chrysler IS stupid. We all know we are driving American cars, I myself spent 32K being 16 on an American car when I could have easily spent it on a German car and received 100 more times reliablility and safety on a German car. Even though German cars have been receiving horrible ratings....I am sure that BMW, AUDI, Mercedes will have less problems than the 300M. You chose to drive an American car, so did I. We shouldn't complain. If we are getting problems, we made the decision to drive an unreliable American vehicle. We could have put that 30+ into a German investment, an import, and had much more reliability. My point that I am trying to make, the 300M is and will be "bulletproof." The 300C is in no way going to compare to the M, especially with its design and its packages which will attract the eyes of everyone. Those who drive the M, are a few, and only they know. I am just waiting to see the 300 image be ruined, and I am sick of it. Design wise, engineering wise, power wise, everything, no car can beat the 300M. And if you are bringing up problems and reliability...you choose to buy it, you knew what you were getting yourself into. It is bulletproof...no car can match what it offers in its price range, no car will live up to its fame, and with the 300C, they just killed it. The 300M is the grandfather, and it will always be respected as the grandfather that went through war and survived. As of the 300C, its a new grandson born in a new society and no one knows if it will have the courage to survive. P.S. Crossfire couldn't keep up with me on the freeway, going on an onramp at a red meter, 300M broke off, Crossfire passed, 300M took it in a matter of seconds.
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    No need to bring the image of 300M's with the problems you received. Its a matter of taking care of the car, my mom's first car was a 1991 Dodge Dynasty and we still drive it until this day, powerful, problem free. All the people that have driven that car and owned it, they've already stated to me that they threw away the car years ago. Cars brake some dont, some stay well if they are treated great, some just give out unexpectedly. No reason to tarnish DC or 300M by any of our problems, cars work, they break. People work, they get heart attacks, they die. Even if they are healthy the day before.
  • bigmike5bigmike5 Member Posts: 960
    Just my .02. When I saw the 300C after having a 300M for 5 years I was aghast. The boxy shape reminded me of a 60's-70's MB diesel that the soldiers used to bring back from tours in Europe, but with the addition of a 60's Studebaker Lark grill. There is no way on God's green earth that the design of that 300C would tempt this old man to buy one, Hemi or no Hemi. If I wanted a Park Avenue, I'd have bought one instead of the M. Oh, and I notice that the new Kia sedan stole the design appearance in short order and is already on the street. Mark my words, the 300C will rocket out of dealerships just like the Pacifica--slowly, real slowly. 0% for 48 and a $2K rebate bonus on top anyone?
  • seeburg222seeburg222 Member Posts: 24
    ...what that faint motor sound is that you hear when you get in your 300M while the engine is off. Its a small electric fan motor in the AC control module that blows air on the inside temp thermistor. I would always hear it while cleaning out the interior or doing the windows. I assumed this motor was running all the time! According to the service manual, it is supposed to come on and run for 1 to 2 minutes whenever a door is opened or closed and then shut off. This has been bugging me for quite some time and thought I'd let the rest of the world know... ITS OK!
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    I think the 300 will move quicker than the Pacifica, if only because there will be $23,000 C's from the start, and the cheapest Pacificas were close to $40,000.

    I agree that stylewise, the 300M beats the 300 hands down. And with the 300M, there will always be exclusivety; something the 300 will never attain. And resale values will sink to Intrepid levels.

    For these reasons, the 300 does not appeal to me. However, having said this, DC may do well volume-wise on their "one size fits all" strategy. And they may keep their costs down using the same sheet metal and platform for each of their full size sedans.

    It's just not for me.
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    I agree with a lot of your comments in your postings. However, the gaps in reliability have been narrowing significantly over the years. Many of the reliability surveys have Chrysler ahead of Mercedes.

    Generally, the only clear leader is usually Lexus -- it's a crapshoot after that.

    Anyway, as I once posted, I would rather spend 3-5 years with a car that excited me than 8-10 years with a car that bored me...
  • ski1002ski1002 Member Posts: 5
    Also decided to add my .02 about my first Chrysler product. I have had my 2000M for 31/2 years, 40,000 miles and (knock on wood) experienced no problems. I have had 20 different cars (mostly new GM)over the 40 years I have been driving and this is the best I have ever had. I usually by this time want to start looking for something new but I still love this car!! First time I didn't want to trade after a couple of years. Just my opinion. I also agree that the new 300C is not a REAL 300 car.
  • dukeofdallasdukeofdallas Member Posts: 52
    The new 300 will be a success for CHrysler. It won't come close to the disaster that the Pacifica has been thus far due to the ambitious pricing. The wide variety of trim levels will allow it to far outsell the 300M. I agree the Chysler s making a mistake if they really want to take the brand upscale. They should have left the stripped down models to Dodge. I am a car snob but not so big of a snob that I wouldn't buy a $35k 300C because my neighbor has a $23k version.
    Re: styling, love/hate styling seems to be Chrysler's forte. Boxy styling is nothing new and has seen success in recent years. The 300 is edgy and daring. This will appeal to many but not all of course. The C, just like with the M, will be a case of bang for the buck. What other large car offers what it does for @ $35k? The boring new Ford 500? You'll have to drop down to a midsize to find something comparable.
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    "The wide variety of trim levels will allow it to far outsell the 300M."

    I agree. But the challenge wil be to outsell the 300M, Concord and Intrepid, because, at least for now, the 300 replaces all of them!

    And if they do outsell all the previous LH cars, the 300 will be a pretty common car on the road...

    I don't know if this is car-snobbish, but if I pay $36K for a car, I don't want it to look like a $23K car. Just one of the many reasons I love my M... :)
  • bluesky999bluesky999 Member Posts: 253
    I read on another board where someone said that in order to appreciate the 300C's looks, you must see it in person. I have noticed that phenomena on other cars before--they look better in person than they do in pictures, and I'll leave the window open until I see it. The following is the best picture I've seen yet of a 300C, to me personally it looks handsome here where in other colors and photo angles I've seen it looked like a mixe of truck and car. http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article- _id=6591&page_number=1
    Lastly, on the Chrysler site I looked up the specs of the 300C. The 3.5 powered versions will only weigh in at about 3700 pounds; not bad for a 197 inch car. The hemi will weigh in at around 2 tons. Question; does anyone know if DMC will put variable valve timing on the 3.5 soon? That engine could use it as it's torque curve is not so great down low. That's a quite significant advantage to the cadillac 3.6 or the infiniti 3.5.
  • dukeofdallasdukeofdallas Member Posts: 52
    You make some good points. I'd leave the Intrepid out of the sales mix since dodge is sure to have their own sedan. I expect the LX series to do at least as well as the LH but probably not much better unless the C and SRT become sensations. An increase in sales by Chrysler may come mainly at the expense of Dodge. The C vs. the plain ole 300 thing still doesn't bother me but not being able to drive two blocks w/o seeing one (in whatever trim) WOULD bother me. I could get an Accord in that case! THe more I think about it, the more I wish there was only the C and the Limited. Oh well, I still want one.
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    You are right -- I'm sure Dodge will have their own sedan -- eventually! DC is introducing a lot of new cars over the next year or two. But I would not expect to see an Intrepid replacement until 2005 (unless they rebadge a 300!). And I don't know about the Concord replacement. I think that for the better part of a year, the 300's will be the only Chrysler full-size sedan. So if they take off, you're going to see a lot of them on the road!

    It'll be different than seeing a bunch of Accords though, because, unlike the Accords, you'll notice the 300's!
  • fuzzywuzzyfuzzywuzzy Member Posts: 958
    The 3.5 doesn't have a problem with tq. It's curve is that way cause of gearing.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    History lesson for 16 y/o 300M driver:

    Chrysler sold plain 300's from about 1963-1971, and they were not part of the letter series heritage. Basically a trim between Newport and New Yorker. So, it's been done before. (There was also a 'Cordoba 300' in 1979.)

    Fact: The 2005 line is '300' with 3 trim levels, base, Limited, and C. They are replacing three names, Concorde, LHS, and 300M, with one whole series.

    With LH car's sales in the dumpster, Chrysler had to do something different. 300M's aren't looked at as 'premium' cars, as just another LH car.
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    Actually the LHS became part of the Concord line a couple of years ago. So the Concord, Intrepid and 300M were all LH platform cars, but they all were unique in appearance. You are going to have to look awfully hard to differentiate the new 300's from each other, because the exteriors will all be the same, except for chrome, mouldings, badging etc.

    As a 300M owner, I consider the 300M to be the premium LH car, both by appearance and content. The 300C will be the new premium 300, but the differentiation will be limited to content.

    The 300C then becomes a $25,000 car with a bigger engine and upgraded amenities.

    Just my humble opinion, but when it comes to my car purchases, it's the one that counts!
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    By looking at your last posts, it looks like you have no clue what-so-ever about the LH platform. Maybe you are familiar with the other junk such as Altima's, Ford's, and Cadillac (Poorest rating in 2004). However, any of us can go to Chrysler's web-site and pull out the History of the 300M and give me facts. I've been reading those facts over and over since 1998, when I was 10. Let's not start. I completely agree with intrepidspirit, the 300M is a premium LH car. If you actually read the posts before I started talking, my entire objective was to prove that the 300C will be nothing compared to the 300M and that they have "killed it." The 300M should have kept its design, even if Chrysler was going to make a new 300 letter car. The new 300C looks like a want-to-be Bently with a truck grille. Compare that to the 300M, and look at the designs. I don't want to start. If Chrysler didn't sell the the 300M well, to bad for the people that could have bought it and didn't buy it. They missed out. And if you are trying to tell me that sales are going to increase due to the 300C, they won't. No one will be buying that car, it's 3 bases won't make a difference. People will get the lowest base to drive a beautiful car, that's not what the 300 heritage was all about. Chrysler isn't going to do well with the 300C, it's going to be the same story as the Pacifica. I know my stuff. I might be wrong, fill me in. But the facts, I know about Chrysler, I know who made it, and I know the exact history of the 300 Series. If you would like, give me an e-mail, I'll direct you to my personal web-site where you can find more information and copy paste it to the "16 year old driver."
  • psterpster Member Posts: 293
    No offense taken, but this is not true in the least: "And if you are bringing up problems and reliability...you choose to buy it, you knew what you were getting yourself into."

    I expect mechanical problems with EVERYTHING mechanical, eventually. I take meticulous and pianstaking care of my 3 cars. What I did NOT bargain for with Chrysler was $5,500 in mechanical failures with less than 50K miles on the odometer. If you expect crap from detroit, you're going to get it. I don't. I expect more. I expect American automakers to hold themselves to higher standards. They must stop making "sales" a culture and make "quality engineering and construction" their culture. They haven't yet and the resale prices prove it. The Detroit sales mentality of cars as throw away disposables is disgusting - you can say you build better cars all day long, but so far the public has not agreed. They need to build a car you can own "reliably" for 6-8 years and not feel like you have to trade it in before it implodes every 2-3 years.
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    I'm glad that you didn't take it as an offense, becuase I don't want to put any one down. However, you quoted me on the "bulletproof"ness of the 300M and I thought that it was necessary to write back and state that it is a bulletproof car, however, it's image shouldn't be tarnished by 5,500 dollars of mechanical problems because like you said, "I expect mechanical problems with EVERYTHING mechanical, eventually." It's not like Chrysler says that you are going to have these problems, it either happens or doesn't, that doesn't mean that it does'nt deserve the "bulletproof" nickname.
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    "If you expect crap from detroit, you're going to get it. I don't."
    Actually, to answer your question, even if I was going to get crap from Detroit, I would still buy the vehicle, because I am a patriot and would rather drive an American car rather than a German vehicle. However, I don't expect "crap" either. It doesn't feel good to pay over 30K+ and receive crap. My point is, when you do buy an American car, you are eventually going to get crap, such as Mechanical problems. Any car is going to get the crap, not all cars are durable, they do break down. However, I suppose crap that you are experiencing, such as Mechanical problems, wouldn't happen on a German vehicle such as a Mercedes if it was to be over even 90K. My cousin drives a Mercedes Benz 560 SEC 1989 just above 140K miles and he hasn't experienced the "crap" you have received. My point is, you choose to buy an American car over a German car or another reliable car, and you are going to receive the crap no matter you like it or not. I understand, you would obviously not want to experience it, but you and I, 300M owners, know, that as the import cars pass by us, we will be fixing our domestic American "unreliable" cars while they are either driving or staring at their cars in their driveways. Makign things short, we love American cars, we buy them...it's not our fault they break down often, it's not our fault DC doesn't get it "WE want quality..." but the question is? why do we buy these vehicles in the first place? We love them. And we shouldn't blame Chrysler or the 300M, because well, thats how they are...but not every 300M is like another 300M, and your crap isn't necessarily going to happen on my M either, and so image shouldn't be based on one person's experience. I hate that.
  • daytona3daytona3 Member Posts: 24
    You do know that DC is a German company, don't you? The 300C has 20% Mercedes parts,thus making it far better than any Chrysler before it (sarcasm). Don't believe me? The model introducing the 300C at the St. Louis Auto Show mentioned the idea of starting over from scratch with the 300 - The idea of taking the points learned over the years and starting with a clean sheet approach. It makes it sound like Daimler thinks the 300M was a mistake, and the 300C is going to correct the "error".

    As for the 300C, I was indifferent to it. It didn't move me one way or the other. The 300M was more of a looker in my opinion.
  • illini4illini4 Member Posts: 140
    2005 300 line has 4 models: Base, Touring, Limited, and C.
  • bigmike5bigmike5 Member Posts: 960
    Some of you guys need to chill out. And all this mention of "crap" has caused this 61 year old to have to excuse himself and go to the head. Reliability is most often in the "eye of the beholder" but is actually in the power and control of the parts company that produces a bad product/part that fails when it shouldn't. All I know is that I love my M, and its been good to me. But find the company that supplied the window motors and tranny in-put and out-put sensors, and put them out of business. Nuff said.
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    I think all these references to "American crap" are based on a well-earned reputation from decades ago. There is very little to differentiate the reliability of cars any more once you take the perennial leader (Lexus) out of the picture. Just check the reliability surveys.

    I don't see people talking about "Japanese crap" when Acura transmissions fail after 10,000 miles or Infiniti G35 brakes need to be replaced after 5,000 miles. Is that because of their well-earned reputation from decades ago?

    Facts provide a much more credible opinion than perceptions...
  • hayneldanhayneldan Member Posts: 657
    It should be noted that the power window motors thst WERE failing in 300M's and Intrepids were made in Japan.
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    Further on my comments on reliability -- AutoPacific's Vehicle Satisfaction Scores (April/03) lists 112 cars.

    The 300M was #34. Not great -- but in the top third of the survey. It was behind cars like the Lexus LS (#1), Honda Accord (#6), BMW 5-Series (#10), Acura TL (#11), Nissan Altima (#15), Infiniti G35 (#19)and Nissan Maxima (#27).

    However, it was ahead of the BMW 3-Series (#36), Toyota Avalon (#37), Saab 9-5 (#38), Volvo v70 (#39), Acura RSX (#54), Toyota Solara (#59), Audi TT (#69), Porsche Boxter (#77), Nissan 350Z (#81), Honda S2000 (#92), Subaru Legacy (#101) and Mazda Miata (#110).

    While American cars are well represented in the bottom half of the survey, so are all the other carmakers.

    Bottom line -- there is very little difference in quality between American and other cars...
  • alcatrazt2alcatrazt2 Member Posts: 70
    "Bottom line -- there is very little difference in quality between American and other cars..." I completely agree, car manufacturers are making cheaper vehicles day-by-day. They're the same "Crap" and when I bought my 300M, I didn't think about reliability. I bought it because it was my dream car and what I felt suited my needs. You don't think of negative impacts on a car, especially when you buy it. If it breaks it will, if it won't then it won't. I know many 99 300M owners who have been driving their vehicles without any problems whatsoever, just regular checkups and ohh, maybe a flat tire. PSTER, I have one word...um...Lemon? Just joking.
  • fuzzywuzzyfuzzywuzzy Member Posts: 958
    I wouldn't trust that. Seems fishy that the G35 & 350Z are the same car just different styling, yet one is 19 & the other is 81. And why is there such a difference between the 3 & 5 BMW?
  • intrepidspiritintrepidspirit Member Posts: 662
    I agree. This is only one survey based on owner's responses. Like all surveys, it is subjective, but it does indicate that there is not an overwhelming difference in owner's vehicle satisfaction between American and non-American cars.

    You can check out the complete list on Autopacific's web-site...
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