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Comments
I wouldn't be so sure.
BTW there's no difference in hadling abilities between the Mazda3 hatch and the sedan.
Actually the sedan has better responses thanks to its smaller and lighter standard engine.
But looking strictly at performance -
I would say the torquey nature of the Aerio SX or Ford Focus ZX-5 will have what you need, at a price that very affordable.
I just bought a ZX-3 hatch with Comfort package and I'm suprised at the car's pace actually.
It feels good stock, but with the things I have planned for it, alot of cars will be seeing Focus tailights on a regular basis. Unlike the outgoing and disapointing Zetec engine, the better cylinder head design (by Cosworth) and larger displacement almost put the SVT Focus to shame. In fact there have been several reports that the ZX-3 with limited options is FASTER in the 1/4 than the SVT and on pace with the Sentra SE-R Spec V. For a car that cost me a total of $13500 after rebate, tax and fees, it a total performance bargin.
Not to mention only the Civic has an aftermarket larger than the Focus. I think you would be happy with a Focus ZX-5 and a few aftermarket changes under the hood and to the suspension.
But that's 1/4 mile guy and general performance nut talking, your mileage may vary...
Isn't definition of car perfomance to squeeze as much power out of an drop of gasoline? The true high perfomance cars are the TDI's and the hybrids of the day. They give you the most bang for the buck. You are confusing perfomance with "exictment"
Yes a Ferarri is an "exhilirrating" car to drive, but from technical point it is not a performance car. Anyone can stick a V12 in a light weight car and make it go fast. It is in no way a high perfomance car. Luckily you confessed you self to be a quater mile guy "But that's 1/4 mile guy and general performance nut talking, your mileage may vary..." Once again, anyone can drive straight. Please don't get offended or anything.
If mpg is you goal then get a bike , either kind or an Insight 5-speed.
vadp: I test-drove all three, and that opinion was based on what I experienced. But be advised that the Mazda3 hatch only comes as the 's' variant - bigger rims, wider rubber, extra sway bar. The 's' sedan has the same package, but the one you mention with the smaller engine is the 'i', which has small wheels and tires, no sways.
And as for the Focus, I would definitely take the regular hatch with the 2.3 as opposed to the low-torque SVT 2.0. I am not saying which would be faster, just that I prefer the low-end torque if I can get it without a big mileage or speed penalty.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It's like trying to convince powerlifters that they should really call themselves strengthlifters.
"Actually I can think of a few more shortcomings of the Suzuki Aerio. Here is my short list: Almost no storage space in the cabin, low-grade interior plastics, sloppy handling, no side airbags available, no moonroof option, no heated seat option, skinny 15" wheels, a small gas tank, and ugly as sin."
Storage space needs improvement, (I already pointed that out) - I added a little Neoprene sack to the passenger side of the transmission tunnel - holds my sunglasses and other junk - not that big a deal for me.
Interior plastics seem OK to me, better than my '99 Trooper had, worse than my '93 Diamante had, definitely better than a brand new Chevy Trailblazer I just rented.
Sloppy handling - not even close. Maybe a bit more body lean than I'd prefer, but that's more a function of it being tall than anything else. It handles just fine.
Side airbags - I wouldn't order them - the car performs well enough in crash tests for me.
Moonroof - completely pointless option to me, but any dealer can have an aftermarket moonroof installed.
Heated seats - I live in Texas
Skinny 15" wheels - since when are 195/55/15 tires considered "skinny"? The tires on an Echo look skinny.
Small gas tank - I think it's 13 gallons, (I've put 12 gallons in mine before), and at an easily achievable 27mpg mixed use driving that's 351 miles. Works for me.
Ugly as sin - obviously totally subjective. I happen to like the way mine looks.
DGS mentions the editors at Edmunds having the same misgivings. Would these be the same editors that voted the Aerio "Most Wanted" low price small wagon last year and runner up in the category this year?
Clearly it's a love/hate car. I love mine, maybe the haters couldn't keep up with one on the road?
However (thanks to the package, although I should have found it on my own), I found it is a dismal failure in the single most important aspect of any car I would consider owning, and that is safety. Check out the IIHS safety rating for the Elantra at: http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0103.htm
These ratings should not be taken lightly. The IIHS is a nonprofit funded solely by automotive insurers, expressly for the purpose of improving safety in car designs (a goal which automotive insurers have an obviously honest interest in). A recent IIHS study conducted using a federal database of all fatal crashes for the last 12 years showed that drivers of a vehicle with a "Good" rating were 74% less likely to die in an accident than drivers of a vehicle with a "Poor" rating, full article here: http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2004/pr020504.htm
Apparently, the Elenatra front airbag sensors are flawed (a problem which Hyundai has publicly acknowledged for the passenger side sensor, more here: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Business/US/hyundai_airbag_040623-1.html), leading to delayed airbag deployment in some cases, a cause of serious head/neck damage to crash test dummies in 2 of the 3 40mph frontal offset crash tests conducted by the IIHS, more here: http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2001/pr071701.htm
Much as I like everything else about this car, I will no longer consider driving one on a regular basis even were it given to me for free. The Kia Sephia is another moderately priced HB I have to put in the same category. I'll probably go with a Focus, as I can't really justify the extra $5-8000 for a Civic SI, Prius, M3, Golf, or RSX, considering Ford's current $3K cash back.
Also, the ABC News story on the problem with the Elantra's OCS sensor, which is in the front passenger seat, has absolutely nothing to do with the IIHS test results from 2001. My '04 Elantra GT's OCS sensor works as designed. It is easy to test it at the dealer to ensure it works properly before you buy the car.
If you really want an Elantra but are concerned about the IIHS test from 2001, you could wait a bit to see if the IIHS publishes the test results on the '04 soon. Re Sephia, you meant Spectra, right? Did you check the IIHS test results on the Spectra (not the brand new design, but the "old" '04 model)? They are terrible. The "new" Spectra hasn't been tested by the IIHS yet, but it shares the platform and many components with the Elantra. So the Focus 5-door might be the best bet for you (the 3-door's rear side impact score is terrible). If you want the best crash scores and want a hatchback, the Matrix and Vibe have excellent crash scores and have much better predicted reliablity than the Focus, but do cost a little more.
I do realize the airbag issues tested by the IIHS and those highlighted by the ABC news stories are different animals, but both show a delayed airbag deployment which is quite troubling, and dangerous, regardless. I didn't find anything to indicate Hyundai had "fixed" whatever the issue might be in their '04 model (probably because I don't know where to look), but it's nice to hear that the issue may have been addressed.
I'm not yet in any real rush to replace my inherited '95 Cutlass (I have been considering it for over a year and still haven't gotten around to it ), so I will wait to see what IIHS has to say about the '04 Elantra before I decide to "upgrade" to something smaller, more economical, and less likely to need repairs in the near future. It would be nice to know before the $1500 Hyundai rebate offers expire at the end of August, but thats probably too much to hope for .
One thing we need to be clear on, though: the Occupant Classification System problem on the '04s is not a "delayed air bag" kind of problem. It's a case where the front passenger air bag should be activated by someone above a certain weight, but is not. As I noted before, it's easy to check whether the OCS sensor is working right by taking your family with you to the dealership and making sure the airbag is activated and deactivated when it should be, i.e., activated when someone who weighs more than 55 pounds sits normally in the seat, and deactivated at other times. There's a light on the dashboard that indicates whether the air bag is activated or not.
Whoa there, don't buy the old platform Spectra when the new Spectra5 is about to be introduced. I've driven the Focus and Elantra extensively and the new Spectra5 is the one car I'd probably choose over either of them. On the other hand the existing Spectra would be at the very bottom of the list.
I cannot see how that can possibly be anything but good for car owners.........
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7415
Aerio pics are on the last page!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Haven't driven a Focus or Matrix, but I did drive the Matrix's twin, the Pontiac Vibe, and it felt like a small SUV. Even if I had been driving a performance version, the height you're at doesn't inspire spirited cornering. No fun. No visibility over your shoulders, either.
I wish the Protege5 were still in production. The Mazda3 hatch is rather pricey.
If you're looking for a cheaper hatch, you're pretty much restricted to a Focus or Aveo. Although the Focus isn't too bad, being a distant cousin of the Mazda3.
Incidentally, the Spectra5 will probably be better than the ELantra GT hatch mostly because of the semi-wagon-hatch bodystyle...it'll lend extra structural stiffness to the car. Bets on who thinks the next Elantra hatch will look like that too?
Word on the street is that for '05 Hyundai has a GLS hatch available - essentially the same thing, but with cloth interior and a few other changes down from the current GT hatch.
Also, I do hafta admit that I got my '04 GT hatch last April for $12,850 incl. tax/title/etc and 100k b-to-b warranty extension... stickshift, no options, but I'd challenge anyone to find a comparably equipped anything, with half the warranty coverage, for two grand more.
Really? I think that's a good move for Hyundai. That'll open them up more consumers who like/consider hatchbacks more for their utilitarian aspects.
http://www.kia.com/spectra/hatchback.php
Which is from like a year ago. Or are you talking about the Kia Canadia website?
http://www.kia.ca/nameplate.asp?lang=en&plate=spectra5
There we go... that looks really slick, like they took a Mazda3 and Elantra hatch and mashed them together. 16" wheels, same engine as the Elantra, roof-mount antenna, 30/43mpg... wow. I really really like that.
http://www.kiaspectra5.com
There is a link to it on the kia web page.. have you tried reloading from scratch? You might be getting a page stored in your cache.
Regarding the Canadian site; be careful about the gas mileage; its in imperial gallons which are 4/5s the size of an American Gallon. Figure 24/34 or something like that.
I think the "SX" is becoming kind of generic these days with the huge increase in small crossovers available. SX = S-port X-over (sport crossover).
I think Spectra5's most direct competition is going to come from the Suzuki Reno, which by the way looks EXACTLY like a stretched Daewoo Lanos from five years ago to me. Did Italdesign design this car today for Suzuki, or in 1998 for Daewoo and it just didn't get used until now?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That being said, here are the areas I think the Kia has the Suzuki beat on.
1. 6 air bags: in this class of cars the Kia is definitely unique, not even its corporate sibling the Hyundai Elantra matches that.
2. Larger gas tank and longer driving range. For some people the extra 1.3 gallons in the Kia will mean an extra day between fill-ups.
3. No Sunroof available on the Suzuki. While some people don't like them, some do, and it is a shame that you can't get one on the Aerio.
4. 16" wheels on the Spectra, 15" on the Aerio. In part because of how tall the Aerio is, its wheels look even smaller. Admittedly this is mostly a question of looks, but I know of few people who actually prefer the smaller wheels.
The other thing that the Kia has going for it is that Kia/Hyundai is moving up market. In addition each of those brands seem to be finally developing some logic to the marketing of their brands. Suzuki is getting most of the former Daewoo products dumped on them which means they now have the Forenza/Reno competing with the one car they actually make and sell in America. It leads to a more muddled marketing category. The fact that the Forenza and Reno are arguably more attractive vehicles (If not as capable in terms of either power or handling) can't help the Aerio either.
Frnt, Driver - 4 vs. 4
Frnt, Pass - 4 vs. 3
Side, Driver - 4 vs. 5
Side, Pass - 3 vs. 4
1. I pulled these crash results of another website. Doesn't look like the Spectra's 6 airbags mean all that much. It has 1 less star overall.
2. Fair enough
3. True
4. For cars in this class, with relatively limited power, smaller wheels provide for better acceleration and fuel economy. They are also cheaper to upgrade, and the tires are cheaper to replace and/or upgrade.
Aerio advantages:
1. Better crash test
2. AWD available
3. More versatile tall-wagon config
4. 155hp (vs. 138hp)
5. 26/33mpg vs. 24/32mpg - Fuel efficiency is better on the Suzuki, cheaper ownership cost.
The Spectra is a much nicer car than the previous Sephia/Spectra (one of the worst cars ever), but it's not really a standout. And Kia still makes some of the least reliable cars on the road, while the Aerio is an actual Suzuki design (which bodes well for its dependability).
Kia has improved, but I still don't think that the Spectra is better in any way than the Aerio. I still think it is bottom of the heap in its class.
While Hyundai is moving upmarket, Kia is NOT. They will be left mainstream while Hyundai eventually shoots for a more upscale image. Sure, GMDAT is dumping a lot of cars on Suzuki, but Suzuki also has many new upcoming products by 2007, one of them including the next-generation Grand Vitara and an SUV based on GM's Theta architecture. One thing Kia does not have is GM's financial support...
Suzuki's own cars have proven over the years to be well put together, if cheap, and reliable. I am not sure how far I would trust any of the rebadged Daewoo crap though...
So give me an Aerio over a Reno/Forenza/Verona any day of the week.
Sidenote: too bad Suzuki has finally dropped the Vitara V-6. Tough little truck with cheap little price.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Posted Oct 4, 2004, 2:09 PM ET by David Thomas"
"In a study sure to make the Korean automaker happy and most of us confused, an automotive consulting firm released a new study that reported Hyundai as the second highest ranked carmaker when it comes to best value. It placed behind only Lexus in the survey based on price, affordability, expected reliability and resale value. Somewhere Honda & Toyota (the brand) is looking around to see what went wrong. Oddly enough Toyota’s new youth effort, Scion, tied Mercedes-Benz at #3, while Toyota itself didn’t break the top ten. Honda eked out a sixth place finish. The rest of the list included Infiniti, Acura, Cadillac, BMW, Audi and Volvo."