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Which Hatchback?

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Comments

  • lopan1lopan1 Member Posts: 3
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    Mitsubishi Evo
    Subaru WRX
    Forester XT
    Outback XT
    Legacy GT
    Mazdaspeed 6

    Enjoy test drives.

    Krzys
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    Not a turbo, but it has a pretty torquy 155 hp 2.3 liter engine and AWD: The Suzuki Aerio SX. For about $17k. Check it out at SuzukiAuto.com.
  • pointatobpointatob Member Posts: 30
    maybe this has been discussed on a different civic forum, but does anyone think that honda will release the 5 door hatchback civic model in the US? i was looking at honda uk site where they sell it; it looks pretty sweet and a direct mazda3 5 door competitor. anyone heard anything about this?

    pointatob
  • randydriverrandydriver Member Posts: 262
    Why is the Aveo sedan being redesigned but not the hatchback.......? :confuse:
  • fire_flyfire_fly Member Posts: 1
    I also notice that the UK offers the 5-door (hatchback) Civic. They also mention that Honda Civics in the UK have Honda's version of stability control across the line, which the U.S. Civics do not offer. Are there 5-door Civics available in other European countries at this time, with the steering wheel and controls on the left side? If Honda does not offer them for sale in the U.S., is there a way for an individual to order a European version of the Civic and have it shipped to the U.S.? If the cost isn't too expensive to have it shipped from Europe, it might be worth it considering the extra cargo carrying capacity and a safety feature as important as stability control.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    It couldn't possibly be cost-effective to import a Civic.

    As for why we don't see the 5-door Civic with all the Euro features, it comes down to two factors: First, hatchbacks are more mainstream in the Euro market but are a fringe segment in the U.S. Second, the relative status of Euro cars moves down one platform compared to the U.S. So a Civic in Europe is thought of as an Accord is in the U.S., and a Fit is thought of the way we think of a Civic. So over there, a Civic is an average family car, not an econobox. As such, it gets a lot of amenities in Europe that they wouldn't put on in the States for fear of pricing it out of its own market niche.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    Accord is called TSX here. Compare the size difference between US accord and US TSX. It is half size bigger.

    Krzys
  • pointatobpointatob Member Posts: 30
    you're probably right about that. coincidentally, i saw edmunds had the pics of the next generation CR-V which sounds like it will stay with a 4 cyl engine on the new civic platform. so if i ask for a civic 5door, honda will say "sure, go buy a CRV!"

    also, if anyone has the inkling, they could price out the UK civic 5 door with options and convert to US dollars just to see where they are priced...
  • vermonter16vermonter16 Member Posts: 29
    I want the Accent! I want the Accent! I need to get a cary VERY soon and I'm not sure I can hold out for the hyundai hatch that I want!.... Does anyone know anymore information on when they might be coming out? I don't know what to do!
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I don't have exact dates but should be very soon. I will try and see if I can get some info from Hyundai insiders I know :)
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    If you really like the Accent, I would look also at the Kia Rio. The hatch version has four doors and I believe is a shade larger than the Accent even though they share the same platform. And Car & Driver rated the Rio higher than the Accent in the $15k econobox ratings. (Accent = 5; Rio = 3, ahead of the new Toyota Yaris.)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    True, but keep in mind the two reasons they rated the Rio5 ahead of the Accent sedan were: 1) better handling, and 2) hatchback versatility. The Accent hatchback has sport-tuned steering and the SE trim has sport-tuned suspension plus 16" wheels, so it should handle quite a bit better than the sedan--probably even better than the Rio5. Then the major advantage of the Rio5 will be two more doors. Also the Accent hatch will start around $11k, and the Rio5 starts at around $14k.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Here's a short test drive report on the new Rabbit 3-door hatch including some thoughts on how it compares to the Mazda3s hatch, which I believe is its closest competitor:

    backy, "The Forums Test Drive Team" #182, 1 Jul 2006 2:12 pm
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Now that I've driven all the new small hatches except the Yaris (I drove the 4-door twice but can't find a hatch to drive), here's my 2 cents on how they stack up. The ratings assume that the Yaris hatch drives about the same as the sedan, and that the Accent SE doesn't handle quite as well as the Fit or Rabbit (although I'll have to confirm that for myself someday).

    Here are the cars I've actually driven:

    Accent GS MT (and GLS sedan AT)
    Aveo MT
    Fit (base) MT and AT
    Rabbit 3-door AT (and Jetta MT)
    Rio5 AT
    Versa S MT
    Yaris (sedan) MT and AT

    Driving position: Accent and Rio5 (tie)
    Honorable mention: Rabbit

    Front seating: Versa SL
    Honorable mention: Rabbit

    Rear seating: Versa
    Honorable mention: Rabbit

    Controls and displays: Rabbit
    Honorable mention: Accent SE

    Ergonomics: Rabbit
    Honorable mention: Accent

    Acceleration: Rabbit
    Honorable mention: Fit

    NVH: Accent
    Honorable mention: Versa

    Transmission (manual): Rabbit (based on Jetta)
    Honorable mention: Fit

    Transmission (automatic): Rabbit
    Honorable mention: Fit

    Fuel economy: Yaris
    Honorable mention: Fit

    Handling: Fit
    Honorable mention: Rio5

    Ride: Rio5
    Honorable Mention: Rabbit

    Brakes: Rabbit
    Honorable mention: Accent SE

    Cargo hauling: Fit
    Honorable mention: Rio5

    Features: Versa SL
    Honorable mention: Accent SE

    Interior quality: Rabbit
    Honorable mention: Versa SL

    Exterior fit and finish: Accent SE
    Honorable mention: Rabbit

    Fun to drive: Fit
    Honorable mention: Rabbit

    Price (with 6 airbags, ABS, and power package): Yaris
    Honorable mention: Versa S
    (Note that right now neither the Yaris nor Versa is available in my area with ABS; the lowest-price car that has ABS available plus 6 airbags and power package is the Fit.)

    So overall the Rabbit has the highest number of firsts (7) and honorable mentions (6), with the Accent and Fit tied for 2nd (3/4), followed closely by the Versa (3/3), then the Rio5 (2/2) and the Yaris (2/0). Note though the Rabbit has the highest starting price ($15.6k with destination), so it is not surprising it did well.

    The main flaw in this analysis is that the categories aren't weighted. Fuel economy, for example, might be much more important to someone than acceleration. And some categories may not be important at all, while others are deal-breakers. So you need to drive the cars yourself and rate them against YOUR priorities. For example, the Yaris and Versa are no-ops for me right now because neither is available in my area with ABS. And while the Rabbit is a very nice hatchback, it gets much lower fuel economy than I would like.
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    NVH?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    noise, vibration, and harshness
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    Backy,

    Just out of curiosity, did you, or are you planning on driving the Mazda3 hatchback? IMHO, it is the most fun to drive hatchback in the price range you are shopping. It should also stack up pretty well in the features and safety department if you get the SAB package.

    Otherwise, that is a nice list :) I'll bet you have had some fun driving all these cars...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I haven't yet, mainly because if I get a Mazda3, it would probably be the 3i sedan, which I prefer due to its better fuel economy and lower price. I've driven that twice and really like it. I consider the Mazda3s 5-door a premium hatchback, more comparable to the Rabbit 5-door in price and quality. The Versa, Fit, and Accent and by price the Rabbit 3-door are in the low-end hatch class.
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    Got it, that makes sense.
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    Not Backy, but...

    I tried the Mazda 3 hatch and ran into a very annoying problem of pressure and noise when I had both back windows down, at freeway speed. (I'd lowered them to get vision through the dealer stickers for lane changes.)

    It's a problem that will happen in just about any car, but it was *way* worse in the 3 than other cars I've tried. And, sorry, but I don't like using the A/C unless I absolutely have to (like driving through Stockton or something like that).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Sorry, I didn't take the hint on the "not backy." :)

    I have seen this happen on many different vehicles. The easy solution is to try different heights for the rear windows, or try opening one or both of the front windows partially. My favorite way to get good airflow w/o noise in my ear and buffeting is to lower the passenger front window and the driver's rear window. fully. (Except on my car with the moonroof, then of course that is the way to go!)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My favorite way to get good airflow w/o noise

    I thought the drag caused by opening windows lowered your MPG more than using the AC.
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    If you've ever seen any studies related to this, I'd love to see them.

    But I also prefer the breeze of outside air to the air coming out of the air conditioning. And having just the back windows down can be one way of getting that.

    Alternately, passengers might like to do that, while the up-front people, not so much.

    You do get this with other cars as well, but it was particularly bad with the 3.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I've actually measured this on my Elantra hatchback and found partially open windows (and moonroof) on the highway result in better fuel economy than with the A/C on. But results may vary by car.

    Which hatchbacks are you looking at these days?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I have given up on buying another car until they start bringing in diesels I would buy a Beetle TDI if I could get a good price. I don't pay MSRP for any vehicle. Just too much loss involved.
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I think I saw this on Mythbusters. Air drag increases significantly as the vehicle velocity increases (I believe velocity is a squared or cubed variable in calculating air drag). At 50 mph, only about 10 hp is required to overcome air drag. At 100 mph, more than 50 hp is required to overcome air drag (exact values can be obtained with an internet search). Rolling friction requires a constant amount of power (~ 10 hp) to overcome and is almost independent of velocity. The exact amount of hp to maintain speed is also a function of the car aerodynamics (a shape factor).

    The rule of thumb for the majority of cars was if you are driving under 40 mph, crack the windows. If you are driving over 40 mph, use the AC.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Why then on my recent 800 mile road trip, one way with A/C almost all the time, the return (exact same route) without A/C almost all the time and moonroof tilted open and back windows part-way down, the mpg were significantly better on the return trip? Speeds were 65-70 mph most of the time. Maybe partly-open windows don't have much affect on drag.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    My commute is more freeway than surface street, and it's not even close: I get at least 2 mpg better mileage in my Elantra with the windows rolled down and the AC off than the windows rolled up and the AC on, even on the freeway.

    It's been over 100 degrees several days in a row now. I was driving with the windows down in the morning and afternoon when it was slightly cooler (after maybe blasting the AC to cool off the steering wheel) and getting 28-29 mpg. Since I'm only doing that in the morning now, I'm getting 26.5-27. If I run with windows up and AC on both ways, I get about 25.5-26.

    I record my mileage every tankful, so I have a pretty good idea of what I get for given conditions.

    The one thing I wish I could do is shut off the AC when the defrosters are on. I understand at least some Canadian Elantras do this, but recent model American ones don't.
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    "Maybe partly-open windows don't have much affect on drag."
    I think you are right. I am sure the mythbusters test had the front windows down, and am also curious what type of car they tested this on. Certainly aerodynamics plays a key role and a smaller, more aerodynamic car (like the Elantra), may not have as much drag as say a Ford Explorer.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    Come on now, Backy, you know better than to think that ANY single check of mileage isn't worth anything. There has to be something consistant, or repeatable. Any single check, ie your return trip vs going trip isn't necessarily correct. Now if you were using fuel consumption testing equipment, etc that would be different, but you description wouldn't fall into that category. Besides, what is significant? 10%, 50% ?
    Anyway I really do appreciate all of your comments, even if there are some I scratch my head about. Keep up the good work. ;);):)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There was a lot "consistent and repeatable" about this trip. Exact same route both ways. Similar traffic, similar speeds, same driver, same weight in the car. 400 miles each way (so not a short distance). "Significant" in this case was about 3 mpg difference (I forget the exact figures), a little under 10%. That is significant to me. Would you really expect a 50% difference just from having A/C off and windows open? Let's be real here.

    If you don't like how I figure mpg, better not read the reviews in mags like C/D and MT because they report mpg on single trips ranging from a couple hundred miles to 1000 miles or so. And they have different drivers in the cars (in comparos), so in that sense their tests are not as "consistent" as mine. Maybe they have a more accurate way of measuring fuel, however.

    If you don't like what I say, just hit "Page Down".
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I can't answer your specific questions. Perhaps the power drain from the AC of a small car is more significant than the car that was tested (which I think was a big tank car like a 72 Impala). Perhaps "cracking" the window meant having all 4 windows completely down in addition to those side vents that used to be on older cars - something not typically done by most drivers. I agree that 3 mpg is significant.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    Seriously, no way would I have expected anything like a 50% difference, and 3mpg is significant. It isn't that I don't like how you figure mileages either. I seriously think your reports are probably better than any of those that I have read from the "C/D and MT Pros" when it comes to the really nitty gritty stuff, even if they do use the measuring equipment stuff. You are much more down to earth where the most of us live. I didn't mean to offend you at all, just to point out to some readers that a single tank (trip) doesn't necessarily prove to be accurate for all the time. Regardless, I do appreciate your comments, and read them all, without hitting the "page down".
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    **scrolls down past lightfootfl's post**

    :P
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    hey guys!
    i tried to find a forum for the suzuki reno but there are NONE!!! :surprise:
    i was pretty much set on a scion xA, but then i saw a red reno couple of days ago, looked real nice!( and bigger than xA, which was parked a few parking space away..so i was able to compare) i reseached it on suzuki.com, edmunds and some other car sites and noticed it does come with a lot of goodies!!:) almost as many as the xA, for basically the same price...even has 8 speakers standard..that is better than the xA!!!
    apparently, a lot of buyers got it under the invoice, which is not possible with the pure pricing on scions...
    only bad thing i read about it the gas mileage is only around 30 mpg but the engine is 126 (or 127 hp)compare to 103 HP with xA, i would trade in a few MPG to be able to pass other cars without making an appointment :P
    so, since this is the hatchback forum, i wanna know if there are any reno owners around here??? ;) or anyone has comments??
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    Look at other reviews a bit more closely. Road noise tends to be the biggest complaint about the Suzuki's. As I recall, there are also negative comments about the accelleration and handling, but I could be thinking about the Aerio (which is really nice, but tall enough that the handling definitely *is* affected).

    Ther's a reason nobody's talking much about them, and it's not just the fact that there are so few Suzuki dealerships out there.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Go drive the Reno, and you'll see why response to the car has been underwhelming. It is well equipped for the price, and it has a pretty nice interior IMO, with a comfortable 8-way driver's seat and pretty good rear seat room. But the engine is coarse-sounding, the stick shift is rubbery, and handling is none too good.

    If you don't need to buy a car right away, you may want to wait a few weeks and check out the new Suzuki SX4, which will replace the Aerio. It's Japanese-made (the Reno is a Daewoo from Korea), has standard AWD, and nicely equipped is supposed to start at about $15k. Fuel economy is rated about the same as the Reno, but at least the SX4 will have 143 hp and AWD. Edmunds has a review of the car on their home page now.
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    wow! that is good news :) !! i will look it up right now!!! and no i dont need to buy now...good for me but i think i am "driving" (!) my husband crazy with all my car shopping/comparing!!! :P ;)
    i am really a JEEP girl, but with the gas $$$$ i just have to look at something else, too bad the new JEEP compass is just a little over my budget :cry:
    i think that's why i am not familliar ( and overwhelmed and confused!!!) with what's out there now...i never thought i was gonna drive anything else but a JEEP... :surprise:
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    i did see comments about problems with starting the car but it seemed to be isolated incidents (?!) and the acceleration issue was with the auto tranny, anyway that is what i read, i did not see any complains about the 5 spd.
    but i appreciate your comments, you may be also right about why we dont see them much on the road, i will get all my infos to make an informed decision.
    AS i said in many post, the scion xA was my 1st pick but the fact that it only has 103HP just worries me..
    i dont need a James Bond car
    (that would be aston martin i guess ;) )
    but i want something that has a bit more guts than my husband S10 /2.3 L pick up truck,that i am driving now :mad:
    i wont even go on the highway with it because it barely gets to 70 mph!!! passing? nah, that is NOT happening with this truck. :sick:
    there is still the versa with 122 HP... :)
  • tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    Just remember that HP isn't everything. Adding HP to a heavier car may just be keeping things equal.
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    backy, thank you so much for your info on the SX4!!!i looked it up and so far i love the look!!! seems to be a mix between the vibe, in a smaller version, the front of the yaris and i see a bit of the kia rio in it too :) and the AWD is what i really need here but no car on the market was offering one in my budget that was gettting at least 30 mpg! with this one, i might get exactly what i like and need!! crossing my fingers for the price to be 15K...which would be really at the top of my budget...
    funny that i was talking in a recent post about my beloved subaru Justy 4WD 1989 and that it was a shame that no car maker had come up with similar product...looks like the sx4 would fall into that category, with more horse power and more than likely a lot more goodies than back in the justy day!! ;)
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    I took a long, hard look at the Reno last fall. In case you didn't know, it is the hatchback version of the Suzuki Forenza, so if you want information on the platform, you can go to the Forenza forum and ask there.

    In the end I got a Hyundai Elantra. Roughly the same cost, but I think it's a much nicer car for the money. It also is a lot more popular and has more owner forums and stuff. The only hitch is that if you're looking for a hatchback, you may have trouble finding one. The 2007 Elantra is an all new model, and Hyundai is pretty much just selling the 2006 stock they have, and most of that is in sedan form.

    If I were looking today, I'd look at the new Suzuki SX4, the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Ford Focus, Kia Rio5 & Spectra5 and Hyundai Accent & Elantra. I've checked out the Dodge Caliber and the fit and finish on the car, especially on the inside, is horrible, which is a pity since it has some innovative features.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    And don't forget the Scions. They are nice little cars, well-equipped for the money (better value than the Yaris IMO), and the xB is very roomy for its size. I can't stand the looks of the xB however.

    I got to drive another hatchback, the PT Cruiser, for the first time this week (rental). In general I'm not too impressed. The ride is pretty smooth, but rubbery; much of the plastic in the interior looks cheap; the driver's seat bottom has bulges in the wrong places; and the fuel economy of this 4-banger is about the same as my 2-ton '99 Grand Caravan V6--25 mpg on the highway. On the plus side, the A/C is powerful, the car is relatively quiet at cruise, and it has Sirius radio.
  • canuck785canuck785 Member Posts: 160
    I have been looking and comparing cars for the past couple of months..i know basically all there is to know about the scions, yaris, fit, aveo and versa and rio, i even have all the brochures at home.. ;) i had choose the scion as my next purchase even if i wasn,t to excited about the 103 hp. now that backy told me about the new suzuki sx4, and after looking it up all over the net yesterday,unless the price is way more than 15k, this IS the car i will purchase, it has everything i wanted + AWD and 30 MPG. and i LOVE the look!!! i think my search for a car is finally over!!!
    i am waiting on 2 dealers to reply my email asking for the arrival date. my husband is pretty excited about it too and we will go test drive as soon as they are available.
  • knoxvilledavidknoxvilledavid Member Posts: 7
    This car is a product of Daewoo, the Korean loser that manufactured such timeless classics as the Pontiac Lemans of ten to fifteen years ago (my parents owned a real Pontiac Lemans in the early 70's, so don't confuse the two). Wish I'd known this was a rebadged Daewoo when I bought it. Well, Daewoo went belly up in the Asian monetary crisis of several years ago only to be resurrected like Frankenstein's monster and forced onto poor little Suzuki Motor Corporation by GM.

    I owned a real Suzuki (Alto) on the island of Saipan from '88 to '92. That was a great little car with a motorcycle sized engine that got 50 mpg city and ran from a stop like a hyperactive jackrabbit. So if you are looking at the Reno, get one of the real Suzuki models instead.

    I've had the cold start problems experienced by other poor souls posting to web sites, only to be told likewise by the mechanics at Oak Ridge Suzuki in Tennessee that I didn't know what I was talking about, when I informed them of the problem last November. They sort of half acknowledged the problem later on and actually made a computer adjustment, which I was later told was the cause of my catalytic converter going out at less than 10,000 miles!

    I called American Suzuki Motor Corporation and was told in May that they were aware of the problem in the Forenza model but not in the Reno and offered to make my payment until the problem was fixed. They "fixed" the car and now it starts without a problem. But I wonder what other problems the "fix" might be causing? I've posted this on CarTalk in hopes of getting an honest answer from a reliable source.

    My automatic transmission shifts like someone driving a manual for the first time. Ever since it was fixed the car sometimes lurches right after cold starting the engine so I keep my foot close to the brakes.

    My city mileage is 23 mpg; freeway mileage to Nashville was 34 mpg.

    I hope this car lasts a few more years without losing too much of its resale value because I'll be trading it in for a real Suzuki next time!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I drove a Scion xA automatic today. I wanted to drive a stick, but all they had was one automatic for test driving. They had no units in stock to sell. The sales rep said they get only one xA per month (!). Anyway, the drive was enough for me to take the xA off my "consider" list.

    Plusses:

    * Good legroom in back for such a small car--will fit two average-sized adults pretty well.
    * Fun handling--like a go-kart.
    * Good-looking cloth interior for such an inexpensive car.
    * Strong A/C.
    * Standard ABS and power package--they are optional on many competitors, with ABS hard to find on some.
    * Decent-sounding stereo with wheel-mounted controls.
    * Good visibility (although I couldn't see the hood).
    * Rear seat folds flat.

    Minuses:

    * Harsh ride over bumps that other small cars tackle without complaint. It's as if the suspension bottoms too easily. For example, the Versa, Rabbit, and Accent offer much smoother ride quality. The Fit is also more compliant than the xA.
    * Driving position is not very comfortable. The seat height doesn't adjust (I wanted more thigh support, although it was not terrible); the wheel doesn't telescope; there is no right armrest; and the left armrest is hard plastic. At least the wheel tilts and there is a comfortable dead pedal.
    * Very noisy in the cabin, compared to cars like the Accent, Rabbit, and Versa--a combination of engine drone (3000 rpm at 70 mph), lots of wind noise, and tire noise. Good thing the stereo sounds good!
    * No cruise control or remote locking/alarm.
    * Small cargo compartment with the rear seats up.
    * Center-mounted gauge cluster (yes, I might get used to it eventually, but I prefer gauges at 12 o'clock).
    * Quality gaffes--two plasticy rattles in the tester, one in the dash and one near the driver's B pillar.
    * Side bags/curtains not standard, as they are on many competitors (they were not on the tester).
    * Limited storage--no center console, no bins in the rear doors, no cupholders in the rear.
    * Non-folding side mirrors and no side moldings to protect doors (seems to be the case on many new models).
    * Limited availability--meaning it would be hard to find a car with the features/color I want.

    The car wasn't very quick, but I didn't expect it to be, especially with the automatic.

    For what I am looking for in a small hatchback, the xA doesn't cut it compared to choices like the Fit, Versa, Rabbit, and Accent. Which is a good thing I guess, since it is hard to find a xA in my town. But then, it's hard to find a Fit, too. One dealer I talked with today has a five-month wait list for the Fit.
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    This car is a product of Daewoo, the Korean loser...

    I believe the Suzuki SX4 is a product of Suzuki, *not* Daewoo.
  • knoxvilledavidknoxvilledavid Member Posts: 7
    The SX4 appears to be a Suzuki, but I was referring to the Reno that I purchased thinking it was a Suzuki. I've heard that the SX4 is manufactured in Hungary, so I plan to wait a year to get a better feel for the quality of the vehicle before trading in my Reno(vation Project) for it.
    Incidentally, I read in my News Sentinel today that Suzuki ranks next to last in JD Power reliability surveys. Wonder if that's due to the Daewoo Reno/Forenza/Verona cast offs?
  • doohickiedoohickie Member Posts: 949
    I think the Hungary-produced SX4s are for Euro market only; North American market SX4s will be from Japan. If you Google on SX4, though, it seems as though it will be produced in Hungary first (or at least the Euro press has given the Hungary plant a lot of attention).
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