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Jaguar X-Type

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Comments

  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    I completed my 1875 mile trip from Palms Springs, CA to Cedar Rapids, IA. With no problems what so ever and a lot of fun cruising. The seats and driving position in this car are so good that I did not get tired or stiff at any time. Made the trip in 2 1/2 days and was the only driver. Wife was the navigator. We took the scenic route up through Utah's canyons and through the rockies (with a peak of almost 12,000 ft) to Denver. The car handled beautifully through the curves and climbs of the rockies. Speed limits were mostly 75 mph and I set the cruise at 80 whenever possible. Used 89 octane until the mountains when I switched to the mfgr recommended premium. Filled up with a tank of ethonal in Nebraska and the X-Type ran well on it too. My message center says I got 24.5 mpg for the trip. I'm not to sure how accurate it is. All in all a great road car. BTW, I saw only one S-Type and NO X-Types on the entire trip.
  • kingofricekingofrice Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I am a Japanese business man who moved to the United States a few a years ago, and I am currently deciding between a Mercedes C-class and an X-type.
    I would like to know is there going to be a memory seat package for the X-type soon? (maybe in 2003 or 2004?)
    I have also saw the English version of Jaguar 2.0 FWD in London last month. They did not have the stick manual brake, but rather a electronically operated parking brake: a small chrome lever located behind the transmission is pulled up to put the brake on... just like the 2003 S-type (got that description from edmunds.com) Will the U.S. version have that little chrome lever instead the traditional manual brakes? Thanks
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    has everyone completely transitioned to jagtalk.com and xk8.net?
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    I don't think they are on the jagtalk board either. I just checked it and there is little about the X there. Mostly about the S. The format there is not readable as the Edmunds format either IMO.
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    maybe i don't pay enough attention, but it always seems almost a 50/50 split s vs x over there. i agree about the readability, but i also like the idea of seeing more than 20 posts at a time.
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    Believe me, I'm not defending Edmunds but at least when I read topics under this board heading, it is about the X Type. Even arranging the subjects on the Jagtalk bb doesn't help much because so many posts don't mention which car they are discussing in the heading until you click on the post.
  • 4angels4angels Member Posts: 2
    Water got into the trunk seal. The spare tire was completely under water, also inside the right of the cabin. about 1/2 inch in the front passenger floor. This is the third time I took it back. Also a tremedous thunder sound over bumps, not to mention the door of the cig lighter popping off at will. The truck goes a chunka chunka chunka when you touch the button.

    Anyone else with these problems?
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    absolutely not, i have had none of those problems. as for the trunk sound, i believe that's the normal sound of the trunk latch mechanism.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    Nope, I haven't had any of those problems or any other problems at all. The trunk is just unlatching, and sometimes the sensor still sees the trunk latch in the clip and believes that it still has not opened, so it tries to go until it knows that it opened. This will improve over time as the luggage compartment door is used.

    I have not had any water leakage problems at all. Also, my suspension has never been loud or made thundering or bottoming-out sounds, nor has any piece of the interior opened or broken off at will. How did so much water get into your car? I hope you can get it fixed and running the way you like. Sorry to hear about all of your troubles. Good luck.
  • 4angels4angels Member Posts: 2
    They only want to replace the trunk carpeting, they will only clean the interior carpet, even though it has been wet twice. The front end noise is attributed to a control arm of so they say. Still want to drive my own car, owned it for three months and I am on my fourth rental. This is a nightmare. I can't get anyone from customer service to return my phone calls, althoug they have a 48 hour call back, ridiculous.

    I should have bought the LS, any suggestions.

    4angels, Floyd Miller (chirolife@aol.com)
  • ego29isteego29iste Member Posts: 45
    I was interested to see if any of you guys know about any changes or updates for the 2003 model year. I spoke with the local Jaguar dealer who was not exactly forthcoming and had to be pushed. He stated that the car would be more money in 2003 and that there are no changes. Mentioned it would be out in about 90 days.

    My previous car was a 2000 BMW 328 with a Dinan sport package. Any of you guys make a similar transition and have any thoughts btw these two automobiles? While the BMW was a great car and I really enjoyed driving it I wanted to find out more about the x-type 3.0 before getting another 330 BMW.

    TJ
  • neuroguyneuroguy Member Posts: 34
    Just wanted you all to know that my Jag had developed two new problems in the past couple weeks. I had the trunk not closing problem, and I had a loud snapping-clicking sound coming from the shift lever area when I use the brake. The latter is some sort of shift-interlock mechanism that is acting up. I still had the vibration at 50+ mph, too, which they (the factory tech, the dealer GM, and the service manager)have said is just "normal road feedback".

    My problems have included:
    -- Leaking windshield nozzles (fixed)
    -- Rocking seat (not fixed)
    -- The "slipping belt noise" (went away by itself after the second drive shaft was in place for awhile)
    -- The "wine glass" noise (fixed by second drive shaft)
    -- Stuck passenger seat belt (not fixed - and not even offered to be fixed even after it being noticed by the service manager and general manager of the dealership on 2 test drives)
    -- Trunk closing difficulties (*maybe* fixed by me snapping off the glow tag when I pulled on it)
    -- Snapping sound from the gear shift lever - brake interlock mechanism (?)
    -- Vibration at +50 mph (fixed with the first drive shaft replacement, reappeared with the second)
    -- Rattle from the right rear passenger seat area (maybe from the speaker in the door).

    Well, that was enough for me. I dumped the Jag and got a 2002 Lexus ES300 this past Friday. The Lexus dealer was even nice enough to give me a RX300 to drive for a couple days while the car I wanted was found to be already enroute to the dealership. The car is rock solid and silky smooth at any speed, no rattles, has a 6 CD in-dash player, a more powerful engine, better quality interior controls and materials, etc. and was stickered $2K less than my X. And from talking to all the doctors where I work, I won't have any trouble from the local dealer, either (Hendrick Lexus here in Charlotte). EVERY Lexus owner I've spoken to has raved about their cars and the dealership here.

    Oh, I don't want you all to be surprised when you go to trade your X-type in. The best price I could get anywhere for my X was 30% off what I paid! And that's with less than 2K miles on it! Guess the word has gotten around on the X!

    So, after ordering my X-type in late September and waiting until Dec. 28th for delivery (11/01 build if anyone's interested), SIX visits to the dealer for repairs totaling about 28 days, and once having to drive a Chevy S-10 pickup truck for two weeks as their loaner, I say farewell to Scott Jaguar here in Charlotte! The X was an expensive mistake! Reminded me of the 1987 Plymouth Sundance turbo I had. Had to take that puppy back to the dealer 12 times in the 13 months I owned it - and only got back 50% when I traded that piece of scrap in. Traded it for a '88 Toyota Celica. Then got a '92 Celica. Only had 1 warranty repair on either car the whole ten years I owned them. Should have stayed in the Toyota family, I guess. :-)

    Oh, and something else that is more unbelievable than anything....(!!) My Lexus salesman called me a day before delivery. He told me he had called my insurance company and they have no record of my Jag! They still have me driving my previous car! So, I've been riding around without any insurance for the past 5 1/2 months! The Jag dealer didn't notify my insurance company like they should have. I called the Jag dealership and spoke with the GM (the owner's son, I think) and read him the riot act on that one! He said the business manager with whom I dealt was no longer working there, and he blamed my salesman. I also told him of my new problems. As for the snapping/clicking sound out of the gearshift, he told me the old, tired line "They all do that"! Can you believe those clowns??!!

    I know that some of you will wonder why I didn't go the lemon law route. I just didn't want the hassle, having to deal with the dealership even one more time, or with Jag corporate. After 5 1/2 months of driving that car, it was worth the money hit I took just to walk away from it.
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    Just to give a little balance to the board after your description, my experience has been just the opposite. Bought my X Type 3.0 about the same time as you but I have 5,000 miles vs your 2K and have had NO problems except the weeping washer which was fixed. I love this car. The selling dealer was great. When I took it in for a free oil change and check at 2K the owner even came to the service waiting room and thanked those waiting for their cars for buying from him and said that his door was always open and if we had any problems we could come to him.
    Unbelievable! Most owners hide from the public and let the GM take the flack.

    Let me add two things. A Lexus ES300 is not comparable to the Jag in any meaningful way in MNSHO. And I have NEVER left notification of my insurance company up to the dealer. It is your responsiblity.
  • joe166joe166 Member Posts: 401
    I don't own an X-type so I can't speak to reliability, but obviously you have lots of money and aren't all that concerned so what difference does it make? I, of course, rely on your statements that 1) you blew almost $10,000 by trading in your Xtype at by far the worst time depreciation wise 2) trusted a CAR GUY to deal with YOUR insurance company without checking on it in a matter which could result in financial ruin for you and your family, and 3) you are either a Doctor or you play one on television.

    I have found the Doctors I have dealt with to be uniformly extremely smart but blessed with common sense in just about the same ratio as the rest of the world, they just don't know that. Good luck with your Lexus, it is a nice car and the dealer network is excellent. They treat you like a king and for the most part, the customer is always right. They make you THINK that all that is free. Nothing is free.
  • leogenghisleogenghis Member Posts: 22
    The fact that someone has "lots of money" doesn't mean reliability isn't important to that person. After all, Neuroguy has obviously spent a lot of his time visiting the dealership and receiving almost no attention to his problems. Writing about them here informs us Edmunds readers to be slightly more suspicious of Jaguar cars and/or his dealer Scott Jaguar. Although I do agree that he should definitely have double-checked on that insurance issue.

    I find TownHall grab bag's current question topic interesting. Desertguy bought an "upgraded" Ford Mondeo and relishes it; Neuroguy got an "upgraded" Toyota Camry and loves it as well. I drive an "upgraded" car as well: an Alfa 164 which shares platforms with the SAAB 9000 and Fiat Croma. I agree that Jaguar has more of a cachet than Lexus does, but it has decreased somewhat with the X-type - the "cheap" Jaguar. Lexus's however is rising with the introduction of the SC430. When I was little, I used to think Jaguars were untouchable...

    Leo
  • jonnyjjonnyj Member Posts: 15
    First, like ego29iste, I am about to come out of a 2000 328 (prem) and am considering the X-Type or a 330. I drove an X almost a year ago, and was really impressed. I thought it handled well, and had lots of zip. I also like the idea that it has rear curtains; you can only special order rear bags on the 330. Also, BMWs are everywhere; the X seems a little more unique.

    However, Neuroguy has about convinced me to pass on the X, especially since I, too, live in Charlotte (small world -- also saw your same post on Jagtalk). While the dealer would be very close to my office, I don't think I could deal with constant problems. Maybe this would be solved by the 2003. I don't care if Jag is raising the price -- they'll still have to heavily subsidize the leases.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    If you really want the X-TYPE, then I would urge you to get one. Neuroguy is a single person who encountered problems with his car, and unlike him, I and many other X-TYPE owners are far beyond pleased with our cars.

    I have had NO problems with my X-TYPE except for the initially leaking windshield wiper jets that were promptly fixed by my dealer, who has also been very good to me. To this day, I am still impressed with my car in every respect, from its solid build quality to its unique styling and inspiring performance. I would not take any other car for it, and much like you, I had previously really wanted a 330i before the X-TYPE was released. When I compared the two cars however, and both are exceptional, the X-TYPE came out on top. I preferred its distinctive eye-catching styling, its smooth ride and road manners, its richer interior appointments, its larger size, and its individuality. It just made me happier to be around than the other cars I was considering. You should get whatever car your tastes prefer.

    Don't let one very vocal person who had issues with his car drive you away from the X-TYPE. You have tested the vehicle for yourself and made your own judgments, and it comes down to what you truly want. Good luck, and I hope you choose the car that is best for you.
  • heelntoeheelntoe Member Posts: 21
    ...on neuroguy's problems but I'd have wondered about the insurance situation when I didn't receive a new card and information regarding changes to my policy within a few weeks, not after almost six months.

    On another note, the Jaguar-branded leather cleaner seems to work very well on the dirt-gathering Ivory interior. Better, in my opinion, than Lexol...
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    The guy who reps the Budget Rent-A-Car turn-ins at the auctions down here (Who I know) says that their X-Type fleet has been nearly flawless and that their customers are very pleased. Hesaid they had a few problems with some early cars... but that since then they have been great.

    Bill
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    Hey thanks heelntoe. I just bought two bottles of Lexol(cleaner & conditioner). I have used it in the past and it used to be the gold standard of leather care. Now it seems everyone is getting into the act including Meguires. I too have the Ivory interior and have contemplated putting sheepskins on. As with most new Ford Corp. products, the headrests do not come out and require a upholstery shops assistance. Then there's the side airbags......
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    The latest issue of Automotive News, an industry trade publication, has an article titled "Quality bugs bedevil X-Type."

    Note these are not my views (I have no experience with the car personally).

    The article quotes several owners who have experienced problems with their cars. Most say it's not only the problems that are bad, it's also the dealer and/or Jaguar itself not providing any assistance and follow-up.

    While I don't have a link, here's a quote lifted from the article:

    "Jaguar Cars Ltd. is at risk of alienating its newest group of owners, many of who complain their new X-Type sedans have an array of irritating quality snafus. While none of the problems directly affect safety or operation, they are of sufficient annoyance that some first-time Jaguar buyers say they're ready to bolt the franchise."

    The article says there are two separate drivetrain problems:

    1. A high-pitched noise during acceleration up to 70 mph. This problem is so widespread there has been a bulletin issued and a manufacturing change has taken place to correct the problem.

    2. A noise during cold-weather driving. This problem has not been acknowledged by Jaguar, and some owners have had prop-shafts replaced (some more than once, including one guy who is on his sixth).

    Some other quotes from the article:

    (An owner named Miller): "While he loves his X-Type, Miller is frustrated by his dealer's inability to repair the problems, despite three visits to the service bay."

    (An owner named Kennedy): "But the prop-shaft is only one of several problems Kennedy sites, including a rocking driver seat, weeping windshield washer nozzles, vibration from the tires above 45 mph, and an apparent knocking from the CV joints when turning. 'It seems to me that Jaguar doesn't know how to handle my problems, and it's taken them a long time to get this under control...'"

    "Many of the X-Type customers are buying their first luxury car and are bristling that a luxury carmaker can't solve the problem on its first attempt. None of the customers interviewed for this article said they had been contacted by a Jaguar representative. Said Moss: 'If you insult one customer, you lose 25 of his friends down at the country club. And Jaguar is still considered a risky purchase."
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    Uh, after replaceing 2 or 3 driveshafts, it's apparant that's not the problem. That guy's mechanic is a complete and utter idiot for replacing 6 of those things, instead of trying to find where the problem is coming from. Not Jaguar's fault that the guy doesn't have the brain God gave a cowpattie. Maybe the guys boss, or some district manager should can the incompitent klutz, but its not the guys in Coventry's fault.

    Also, why is making a manufacturing change & issuing a TSB bad? Sounds to me like they're trying to fix the whining-at-70MPH problem.

    Remember, this is the first car in Jaguar's history with AWD and a sideways engine. A lot of engineering was done in-house by Jaguar, despite the Ford platform, so a learning curve is to be expected when heading out into uncharted waters. It's a chance the owners took buying a 1st year model, especially with a lot of technology the automaker had never tried before.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    Wow! There are 2 whole problems on a few of the early, first-year, new technology X-TYPE models and Jaguar is trying to fixing them for their owners! Sounds like Jaguar is doing just fine, and they also have nearly the highest rates of customer satisfaction out of any manufacturer.

    I cannot help but feel as if any problems that Jaguar may have on any of its cars are looked upon more harshly than problems with other marques' cars because of the past reliability issues that Jaguar used to have. The bullet-proof Mercedes-Benz has more reliability problems with its cars now than Jaguar ever had, and Audi and BMW currently cannot even get their speedometers and odometers functioning properly.

    These are just very vocalized announcements about temporary problems with the X-TYPE, and after some of the initial problems on a few of the early production models are fixed, everyone will be very pleased with their cars. My only problem was the weeping windshield washer nozzles, and those were fixed in less than 15 minutes by having my dealer simply tighten two valves on the underside of the car's bonnet. After that, there have been no problems at all, and I still cannot get over how much I love this car.

    Every manufacturer has initial problems, especially on new models. Jaguar knows how to please its customers, and it still builds world-class cars.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It appears that the real problems and complaints are with the dealer and the dealer's inability/unwillingness to fix the problems. Every brand new model will have some teething pains but as long as the factory corrects the problems promptly and the dealers fix the problems and treat the customers well then it's ok. Going back to the dealer over and over for the same problem is extremely frustrating. This isn't unique to Jaguar and it seems to be a hit or miss thing - some dealers are great and others are terrible. It underscores how much power these dealerships have under the franchise laws. The mfrs are almost powerless to force improvements in service. When they try the dealers haul them to court and usually win.
  • mfprmfpr Member Posts: 41
    The problem was indeed with the design of the propshaft, as Jaguar refers to it, not the dealer who repeatedly replaced it. Jaguar has made at least 5 modifications to the design since the problem began to appear. The service departments ordered the latest parts, but consequently learned the problem continued. The final design reportedly has fixed the whining noise, which only occurs under specific temperature and speed conditions, so it has been difficult to verify that a proper fix was made. The issue with the whining noise will definitely reappear when the temperature drops and new owners who have bought their cars in warmer weather experience the effect of winter.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    If there is a problem, then I have no doubt that Jaguar and its dealers will do everything to fix it. I have driven my X-TYPE in temperatures ranging from slightly below freezing to 98 degrees (F) at speeds everywhere from 0 to 90mph, and I have had none of the reported problems. When were the design changes made? If I got a car with the design changes, then I can say that they did a marvellous job with the fix, and if I did not, then I must say that any problems must be annoying enough to report, but are only found on a few cars - my own car not included as it has been perfect.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    So does every "propshaft" (on this side of the ocean, it's still called a driveshaft), on every X-Type made whine? Does anybody here have one that doesn't? It seems to me, that unless 100% of X-Types made have this problem, after six attempts, you'd get ahold of one that works. Also, if every X-Type did have this noise, would Jaguar have noticed it before shipping squillions of these things all over the world? Also, Englad was never known for it's tropical climate, so I'm sure the engineer got plenty of cold-weather testing in on the X-Type, before and after release. After six times, I'd question the competence of any mechanic who kept replacing the same thing without fixing anything, as well as any engineer who kept redesigning the same thing without fixing anything. Maybe they should poke around and see if maybe something other than the driveshaft is causing the noise.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    "So does every "propshaft" (on this side of the ocean, it's still called a driveshaft), on every X-Type made whine?"

    Answer: NO!

    "Does anybody here have one that doesn't?"

    Yes, I think that many people have X-TYPEs that are working perfectly, and then there are a few that happen to have this very annoying problem. My X-TYPE is in perfect working order with not even a rattle, as many of the cars are. It is a superb car regardless of a few that have problems in their first model year, and it happens to be publicized more because it is a Jaguar, and Jaguar's first new compact entry-level sedan in a long time.

    I did some research into the problems that plague some X-TYPEs, and I found that it is a very few number of cars that actually have the driveshaft or whining in cold weather problems. Also, if you have one that has none of those problems, then your car most likely will not develop the problems either - very good news.
  • rea98drea98d Member Posts: 982
    In that case, since so many seem to be working fine, I stand by my first post. After 6 driveshaft replacements and still no cure, if that were the problem, the would have gotten a good one by now. Any mechanic who uses the brain between his ears rather than the one that plugs into the car's computer would start looking to see if just maybe something else might be causing it. Every car maker is going to produce a few cars that rattle, whine, squeal, buzz, hum, sing, or make racket more than the rest of that particular model. That's what warranties are for. But the way to fix it is to find the whine and replace that part, not just replace part X because part X was bad on someone else's car, and then keep replaceing part X until the owner gets fed up with the dealer and swears off that brand forever. It's a classic case of a lazy service department who, since they keep sending the bill to the manufacturer each time, aren't motivated enough to find the problem and fix it, because *gasp* that would require them to do some actual work!
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    Well, I do understand that it would be terribly annoying and upsetting to have a car that doesn't work properly, and I am sorry for those people who have problems, but I must say that I do not think that Jaguar is having many more problems with any of their models than any other manufacturer. Because they were once tainted with the reputation of being problematic in the past, Jaguar is still suffering and trying to get past that image. Although in actuality they are as or more reliable than other cars today, they still must make that their reputation, and any flaws along the way do not help them.

    That is why any little problems with Jaguars are scrutinized, where as larger problems on other manufacturers' cars (like the speedometers that do not function properly on BMW's) are overlooked. How many of you knew that the newly introduced, $87,165 Maserati Spyder has a recall because it requires "modifications to their power steering hoses to avoid the possibility of engine fires, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said". That sounds much more serious than annoying sounds or vibrations.

    Jaguar is doing great and has nothing to worry about if it can keep its few problems out of the vocal media the way other manufacturers do. All it needs is the reputation of being reliable - the cars themselves already are.
  • skobolaskobola Member Posts: 207
    Well, I believe that Jaguars are not more scrutinized than any other better brand, especially the BMW (or MB). Believe me, Bimmers get their bad apples criticized to the n-th... However, it seems to me that they are not that many to criticize, including my last two ones, 1999 323i and 2002 325i. I agree with you that by having a high/luxury/better-brand car opens it to criticizing for even things that are "normal" for other cars, but well, this is because we paid more money for these 4 wheels. Also, if you want to feel a little bit better, maybe you should go to the Mercedes Benz web sites, there are a lot of (new) owners crying about the lack of quality and unfulfilled expectations... Good thing is that all these cars come with free warranties and maintenance programs, so we should just bring cars to the service and let them play with them. I consider myself lucky for not having any of such problems, though...
  • drivinisfundrivinisfun Member Posts: 372
    I agree.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    Your opening statement: "...I believe that Jaguars are not more scrutinized than any other better brand, especially the BMW (or MB)" indicates that you already have a bias towards BMW since you think it is a "better brand" than Jaguar, and you are acting as if I was attacking BMW with my statement about their inaccurate speedometers. This was not what I was doing or my intention, as I was simply using it as an example of how every marque has problems, but the ones Jaguar has have entire articles written about them, where as other marque's troubles go virtually unnoticed, even if they are more dangerous to the people in the cars.

    And how would reading about the problems that many Mercedes-Benz drivers are having make me "feel a little bit better"? My post above already said that "I do understand that it would be terribly annoying and upsetting to have a car that doesn't work properly, and I am sorry for those people who have problems". Why would knowing that people are upset cause satisfaction for me? Does it for you? Are you that kind of person?

    I don't have any "unfulfilled expectations" of my new X-TYPE, and I never said that more expensive marques get criticized more than lesser ones either. My car has been working perfectly, and I am glad to hear that your car has been the same for you. Also like you about BMW, I feel that there is not much to criticize about Jaguar, as every one that we have had has been great, and I have found that they are still some of the best world-class cars around. That was the entire point of my last few posts, but it must have been written in too complex a form if you got nothing from it.
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    The biggest criticism of BMW which I have heard repeatedly over the years is the high cost of maintenance. Friends with BMWs will validate this. I hope the XType is not in the same boat. Mine will be under warranty and free maintenance for the life of the lease so I may never know unless I decide to buy it. So far, over 5K in five months and NO problems.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    Nice to hear from you again, desertguy! I've still had NO problems either. Maybe it's the Carnival Red... :-)

    How are your seats looking? I clean mine all of the time to keep them looking brand-new, and I was wondering how someone else with Ivory was doing. Someone posted that Jaguar's leather cleaner has worked best for them with Ivory, so I'll check on that next time I'm at the dealer. What do you use? Our Ivory interior S-TYPE has a slight belt stain on the seat, and nothing else has taken it out yet. I'm thinking of seat covers for my X as a last resort if I get any stains.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    "...but I must say that I do not think that Jaguar is having many more problems with any of their models than any other manufacturer."

    This is not true, especially compared to the Japanese cars.

    If you take a look at J.D. Power's latest study in 2002 initial vehicle quality (released yesterday) you'll see there's not a Jaguar to be found at the top of any list.

    Lots and lots of Japanese products. And the plant that produces the best cars in the world is located in Japan.

    That's not to say that somebody does not prefer a Jaguar to own. There is a lot of emotion that goes into car buying that is not based on facts.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    I never said that I did not think that Jaguar has no problems, but I did say that I do not believe that they are having any more problems than the majority of other manufacturers, and that although they are not the most reliable cars, they also are no worse than most anyone else.

    How is your Toyota engine sluge, anyway?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Initial quality only covers the first 90 days. Long term reliability is more important. If you check the 2001 long term reliability report which counts problems after 4-5 years, you'll see that Jaguar is #3 just behind Lexus and Infiniti and just ahead of #4 Lincoln. Would you rather have 90 days of quality or 5 years? See for yourself.


    http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/01102afull.gif

  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    Yeah, has to be the carnival red. I just purchased Lexol cleaner and conditioner(separate bottles) I've used Lexol in the past with good results. You do put me to shame though as I have not cleaned my seats yet and they do need it. I have some beautiful sheepskins from other cars I've had but there are two problems. The head restraints do not come of and require an upholstery shops help and then there are the side airbags that would be covered up. I think with proper maintenance the naked leather is probably the way to go.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    Yeah, I agree with you about the leather. Overall, it is probably the best way to go. I hadn't considered the side airbags until you mentioned them. I just don't want the seats to age before their time. I parked next to a bright red (Phoenix) XKR convertible, and the tan seats inside the car were in horrible condition. The natural texture lines in the leather were so dirty that they were totally black. On Ivory, that would look even worse.

    Thanks for the Lexol information. I'll go check it out.
  • keyrowkeyrow Member Posts: 214
    As the owner of a detailing business I recommend everyone check out Leatherique, we have found their products provide the best cleaning and replenishment of vital oils of any product currently available. The Rejuvinator Oil also does not produce a slippery surface, as do some other products, so you will not be sliding all over after treating your seats. Lexol is good, but Leatherique is better!


    http://www.leatherique.com/Default.htm

  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    Thanks for the information. I'll add Leatherique to my list of care products to look at.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I was mearly pointing out a fact: the X-Type, as a brand new model, is having more initial problems than many other new luxury cars. More than the Lexus ES 300 or SC 430. More than the Infiniti G35 or Q45. More than the Acura RSX or MDX.

    I also said that, of course, there is more to buying a car than just reliability. There is a lot of emotion involved. People buy cars for a host of reasons.

    As for the engine sludge, I've had no problem whatsoever. And if a day comes when there is a problem, I am confident Lexus would take care of the problem. Unlike your beloved Jaguar, which according to the previously posted article (a trade article for dealers no less, not a consumer article) has annoyed many customers by not responding to their problems.

    No car is perfect, or made for everybody. You need to listen to the criticism people have of the X-Type as well as the positives instead of getting so defensive.
  • desertguydesertguy Member Posts: 730
    One does wonder why you feel it necessary to get on the Jag. BB and post unflattering articles about the X Type when you admittedly "have no experience with the car whatsoever." And are not in the market for one as far as I can tell. Maybe you are trying to validate your choice of the Lexus? The ES300 is not comparable to the X.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Since I have access to automotive articles most people don't, I post lots of articles (good and bad).

    There are people reading these forums searching for information that do not know a lot about cars. By posting articles these people can learn more before buying a car. That's why many people go to Edmunds - for new info.

    Despite what you may think, I have nothing against the X-Type. I believe the more competitors the better.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    The Town Hall is about to take on a new look in an effort to make content more easily searchable and accessible.

    Have you seen the Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the Town Hall Welcome page? If not, you might want to follow that link to have a look.

    And hang on to your seats. Change is never easy - for any of us - but resolving the Search problems we've had will be worth the pain.

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    there are already 14 tsbs out on the 2002 es300. most are minor issues, much like the x-type issues. the notion that the es300 has less though is absurd. there are 6 tsbs for the x-type. the tsbs for the x-type cover everything people have complained about except the washer nozzle issue, with that there are 7 problems. still half that of the es300, and i'm not counting issues that lexus doesn't have an official tsb out for.


    if you doubt me, go to http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov and check for yourself. the difference is the way the manufacturer deals with the problems. where jaguar customers have to pull teeth to get jaguar to fix something, lexus does it many times before the customer even recognizes a problem exists. it's a matter of customer service, and yes, lexus does a better job than jaguar in that respect.


    as for problems with the cars though, the x-type does not have more than the average first year model, and in fact has half the problems the 02 es300 has.

  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Thanks for that piece of info.

    I was going by initial quality as reported by JD Power. According to that study, only the Thunderbird had fewer initial problems than the ES 300 in the entry-luxury class. I guess if something is wrong and taken care of before I notice I don't care about it.

    I appreciate the response.
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    the only people who seem to like jd power surveys are those who end up near the top. the problem is that they are completely based on customer reported problems, not actually on problems. many lexus owners don't know they have it as good as they do, because lexus fixes the problems so quickly. they sometimes also seem to overlook minor issues that owners of other brands would report, simply becuase lexus has treated them so well.

    as a side note, i looked at the 02 camry numbers, there are already more than 20 tsbs.

    lenscap, i appreciate you taking the time to look at the data.
  • jagboyxkrjagboyxkr Member Posts: 53
    "As for the engine sludge, I've had no problem whatsoever. And if a day comes when there is a problem, I am confident Lexus would take care of the problem. Unlike your beloved Jaguar, which according to the previously posted article (a trade article for dealers no less, not a consumer article) has annoyed many customers by not responding to their problems."

    If you would like, I could post the many articles that I have found both for consumers and dealers about the Toyota/Lexus "oil gelling" (as they call it) problem. It took a colossal amount of unhappy and annoyed Toyota/Lexus owners to finally get Toyota/Lexus to even admit that there was a flaw in the design of their engines, a problem which dates back to 1997! So for five years, Toyota/Lexus said that it was the car owners' fault for having engines that sludged! Yeah, you are right, they give great service, if you can call that service. I'm glad they have your confidence.

    Jaguar may have a few initial problems related to unwanted sounds on a few of the brand new, new-technology X-TYPEs, but they have engines that function properly and they do not blame their problems on their customers. I have had NO problems whatsoever with my Jaguar X-TYPE, and I have full confidence that Jaguar will work out the problems in all of the few cars that have them. I even found some articles where some surveyed X-TYPE owners who actually had problems came back for a follow-up response after Jaguar responded to them, and they had nothing but praise for the service they recieved and thier cars.

    As for your remark about service from Jaguar, I have had nothing but good experiences with my dealer and the Jaguar company itself. I also must say out of experience from ownership that Jaguar makes some of the finest cars the world has to offer. Since you have no experience with any of these aspects, you have no basis to make any valid statements about Jaguar's service, ownership experience, how they treat their customers, or even the cars themselves.

    You would not have come here and posted unflattering articles about the X-TYPE had you not had, "nothing against the X-Type". In your message addressed to desertguy, you make the statement that you "believe the more competitors, the better". This establishes that you believe that the Jaguar X-TYPE and your stylistically challenged Lexus ES300 are competators with one another on the market. Then, in that same post, you state, "There are people reading these forums searching for information that do not know a lot about cars. By posting articles, these people can learn more before buying a car". This establishes that you are trying to educate the unknowlegeable public with the information that you post on these boards. By posting only unflattering information about a car that you consider a major competator to the car you are trying to promote, you are attempting to make it appear to the "people who do not know a lot about cars" as if that competator is horribly unfit for them, and as a car in general. Your true intentions seem to be to try and sell the ES300 to the public over the X-TYPE, not make a fair and unbiast observation about any car.
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