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Jaguar X-Type

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  • Just got an offer from a local dealer in Los Angeles area for X-TYPE 2.5 with sunroof package and automatic 2003 (service car with 400 miles on it) MSRP w/destination $33,895.
    Offered for 27,500+tax+doc fee.

    Is this a good deal, need help
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    For those asking, Jaguar issued a few "updates" in the last week. I am bringing my '03, slow 2.5 in tomorrow for the latest. The car hesitates a lot and the updates are geared to fix this. Someone posted a while ago that there is a TSB to fix this.

    As for resale, these cars depreciate faster than most.

    Just got a used '03 Infinity G35 with 6,600 miles and a 260 hp, 3.5L stallion of an engine. It is off a one year lease. It blows away the 3.0 S Type hands down. While not a head-turner like the X or the S, what a rocket of a car! Infinity is coming out with AWD next year and should give Jag. some more competition.
     
    In all, I love both vehicles: The Jag for the outstanding looks, wonderful leather and service and the Infinity for the performance and price.

    Jagboyxtype: Great pics! I see you are still posting your vast knowledge base on both this board and the S Type board. Thanks again!
    I gained much insight as a result of your posts and appreciate them very much. I am sure others agree.
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    You are getting a great deal. Take it and run with no hesitation...unless you want some power.

    My strong preference being a 2.5 driver would be to purchase the more powerful 3.0. Three of my friends who had the 2.5 traded-up for the 3.0 and took financial hits. I am considering doing the same as I LOVE the way the car looks. Who can argue this is not a great looking vehicle?

    Your 2.5L price is outstanding if you do not care about power. The used ('02, X, 2.5L) is selling for the same price on the east coast.
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    Jag updated my 2.5L today with the most recent transmission and engine codes. The hesitation is gone and the car is a little quicker. People with the same issues should get the updates.

    They gave me a Ford Taurus SEL for a loaner and it seemed like the exact same car with a different front grille and interior. It was also faster. I guess we paid 12K more for the hood leaper and the leather.
  • I keep reading comments about "seeing Ford in Jaguar", but no one seems to say exactly what it is that looks like a Ford. I've not checked, but are people seeing Ford in Volvo? How about seeing GM in Saab? Now I don't want to rankle anyone, but is there VW lurking behind a radio knob in any high end vehicle? I would respect other's opinions about Ford design cues ONLY if they could point them out specifically.
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    For those interested, the 2002 and 2003 X-Type new service actions and recalls are as follows:

    · R935 – Replace GECM – NEW Recall
    · S928 – Revised Crankcase Breather Valve
    · S934 – Restraint Module Reflash
    · S937 – Reprogram ECM/TCM – Reprogramming to stop the engine and the transmission hesitation.
    · S939 – Hose Clamp Replace – NEW issue
    · S936 – Throttle Pedal Stop – NEW issue
    · S918 – Fuse Rating Change (Manual Transmission Only) – NEW issue
    · S921 – 20 AMP Micro Relay
    · Inspect and replace ashtray if necessary (no code, old issue)
    · Inspect and replace trunk latch if issues exist (no code, old issue)
    · Inspect and align AWD if issues exist (no code, persistent issue)
    · Inspect and replace gas latch if issues exist (no code, old issue)

    S = Service
    R = Recall

    I recommend printing this list and bringing it to your service advisor. Bring both key fobs as the service technician needs to reprogram both.

    Hope this helps!
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    You really need to do some homework and read the NUMEROUS back posts regarding the Jag/Ford looks. Also read the Edmunds, the Car and Driver and the Motor Trend reviews. They all suggest the Jag's rear end looks like the Ford Taurus.

    Some are bold enough to suggest everything about the Jag X looks like the Ford except for the front end. Other articles compare the Jag X to the Mercury Mystique (sic).

    These same publications also state the the Jag S Type rear end looks like the Taurus and is a Linclon rebagged. In fact, the base 3.0 models share the exact same power train and engines.

    The Volvo's reviews also state similar findings if you would just read before posting.

    Ford improved Jaguar quality. The Taurus is one of the most reliable American-made cars on the road. That is why so many car rental companies purchase them in bulk. Less maintenance and more road time equates to greater profits.

    After the recent servicing, the Jag is running great with no further hesitation.
  • It is human nature to look for familiar or common things in everything. Ever try and look for similarities in siblings only to find they are adopted? Same goes for manmade designs. In my opinion I find the rear of the new 725 to look like a late model Chrysler Cirrus and the front looks themed from the Rover 75, (a short termed subsiderary of BMW).

    As per needing to "do some homework", the back posts you refer to are opinions as are mine. If you agree that a concave rear fascia and a convex rear fascia makes a similar design, I would disagree. If a chrome brow over a license plate makes two rears the same, I would disagree. If scale and massing that are similar makes cars the same, I would disgree.

    Follow a design line on the Jag, it will flow into another line, not usually transect it. But then again, so does it on a Ford Ka, so I guess that makes them similar in looks as well.

    P.S. The dog ate my homework
  • bigguyjerbigguyjer Posts: 13
    It's a little early yet, but, I will be turning in this fall my leased Lexus GS400. I love the car but will not go Lexus again because '04 GS400/300 is basically the same car I have now; my wife has an ES300 and LS430 is too pricey for our budget.

    My wife and I have had 4 Lexus products and are a bit spoiled with Lexus quality and service.

    In considering a different car, we have decided to go with a 6 cylinder version, automatic with premium options; i.e. moonroof etc.

    We are considering the following: Lincoln LS6, Jaguar X-Type 3.0, and Cadillac CTS 3.6 (coming out in 04).

    We would appreciate your experience and comments on quality, service, reliability and performance on the above automobiles.

    Also, we hear that some domestic manufacturers give a special discount (on top of negotiated deal)for customers who leave foreign manufacturers; i.e. Toyota, Honda, etc; to purchase domestic products. Is that true and how do we find out about these programs.

    Thanks to all who take time to respond.
  • desertguydesertguy Posts: 730
    It would help if you would let us know what your interest in the autos performance might be. I have owned both a Lincoln LS and now have a Jag six cylinder. Are you a boy racer, point A to point B only or something in-between? ie., how important is performance relative to comfort. That sort of thing.
  • bigguyjerbigguyjer Posts: 13
    Thanks for your response.

    Further information. I am 57 years old 5'10" 225lbs. Live in Chicago area. (2000 GS400 was terrible in snow).

    I had my powerful car experience with the GS400.
    0 - 60 in 6.2 seconds, had dealer installed radar to help avoid tickets.

    Today, I am mellowing a bit. Looking for comfort features in something fun to drive that looks good and is less expensive in price than the Lexus GS400 product and a bit more economical to run.

    My biggest concern in leaving Lexus is the quality, service and customer care I have received from the dealers and Lexus management. I hope to find that level of quality and customer service in another manufacturers product.

    Hope this information helps.

    I assume from your handle that you are from Arizona. We just returned from two week vacation in Arizona - Scottsdale and Sedona. Awesome vacation.
  • desertguydesertguy Posts: 730
    Seventeen years in Ariz. and another five in the Palm Springs area make me the desertguy. But, in the last year I have moved to Iowa but kept the handle. One winter under my belt. We shall see.

    IMHO, you will not find anything like the Lexus service with the cars in your present thinking. Lexus spoils you for anything else which is of course the idea. I have never had a Lexus but my friends have and tell the story.

    Now, I had a Lincoln LS when they first came out and there were some bugs but not many. Most have been fixed now. I had the V6 with many luxury features. It is a wonderful driving car. Being rear wheel drive only it handles beautifully. Best handling as far as cornering or a slalom that I have ever driven and I have had several sports cars. I think it is a real sleeper and vastly improved for the '03 model year. If you buy from a Lincoln/Merc dealer you have a chance to get decent service. I bought mine in Palm Desert and It was the Ford/Linc/Merc configuration. The service people can't just jump from an Escort to a Lincoln and have a whole different attitude.IMO

    As for my current ride, it is wonderful as well. I love the looks, the best paint of any car being produced today etc. My V6 is also an early build XType. I have had no problems with it at all in the 17 month I have had it. There is something about a Jaguar........ is what you will hear. I can't explain it but I have loved owning one. I will not get another because the only dealer is 90 miles from me. As you are in the Chicago area the All wheel drive would be great for the snow.

    I would not by the Cadillac because I have had poor experiences with General Motors and the one Caddy I had. I don't like the snowplow front end anyway.

    I would test drive them all. It is mostly a subjective decision. Good luck in your pursuit. BTW, does the jer at the end of you handle stand for Jerry? Just wondering 'cause I'm a Jerry!
  • bigguyjerbigguyjer Posts: 13
    My name is Jerold, Jerry or Jer, take your pick.

    I'm a mid-westerner. Grew up in St. Louis, been in Chicago area since 1978. I'm settled in here now - avid Bears fan, season ticket holder.

    Yes, I am one of those crazy people you see under parkas in the stands in December. Hope we do better this year than last.

    I plan to wait until the '04 models come out. Then go do some serious test driving. If it's a toss-up then, I will probably wind up with the one my wife likes best.

    Thanks again for the input.

    Regards.

    Jerry
  • I've had my X-type for 8 months. The only gripe I have is the service department. Prior to the X, I had Infinitis, 7 years. There is NO COMPARISON with their service. Infiniti service exceeds expectations and Jaguar is sloppy and inconsistant in handling paperwork, understanding needs and delivery of vehicle. Parts is also another poorly managed department. After 3 attempts to order touch-up paint, I had to call the general manager. It's odd, Jag beats them on sales and Infiniti beats them on service. I only hope that you have more than one dealer accessible to compare BOTH sales and service. You'll love the car.
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    geecheewheels, sorry the dog ate your homework ;-)

    I have both Jag X and Infinity G35 and find Jag service to be far superior to any car I have ever owned (past and present). Guess it is just a matter of finding the right dealer?

    Many of my friends traded their 2.5L X-types for the 3.0L and took a substantial financial hit. They all love their 3.0's. Not many problems except for the minor common issues (trunk latch, gas latch, weeping windshield washers, etc...).

    I think I may also get out of my current lease for the 3.0 if this tells you anything. It is just a faster car that is "more fun" to drive. Would recommend the Jag to anyone.

    Have you considered Infinity or the Jaguar S Type? You mentioned the Lincoln LS6 which is basically the base 3.0L Jaguar S Type. You may want to go for the S Type 4.0L engine. Why not go for the Jaguar S-R with 390 hp?
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Posts: 241
    I too have a really good dealer, so it seems that Jag dealers are either very pleasant or quite bad. I have both an S-type and X-type. The X-type actually has more room than the S-type and a larger trunk. The V8 of the S-type may make the car faster, but the X-type, despite only having a V6, is much more nimble and feels much more sporting - it feels easier to drive. I love them both, and both have been trouble free.

    As you are looking at V6 models, I would think the LS6 would feel close (not identical though) to the V6 S-type, however, neither will equal the quickness of a V8 GS400, but will easily challenge a GS300. The X-type is lighter than the CTS, LS, and S-type, so with the V6, it feels the fastest.

    If you have any specific questions about the X-type, feel free to ask them and I will tell you all I know.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,679
    Just for the record, the 3.0L jag engine has NOTHING in common with a Taurus duratech other than the block casting mold. Everything else is pure Jaguar. Lincoln did the same thing with their version. Both the Lincoln and Jag have VVT and put out 235 hp, give or take, which is at 25-35 more than any Ford version.

    If you're going to bash at least have the facts straight.
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    Who is bashing? The block casting mold is the heart of the engine! While most other things are different, what is so bad with Ford anyway? Why do you think the Taurus is used by so many rental companies? Could it be that the car has so few problems and is easier to maintain than other vehicles or do you think it is just the bulk discount?

    What about safety? Both the Taurus and the Jag(s) rate the SAME in the eyes of insurance companies. The insurance cost is relatively low for both cars!

    In fact, rental companies like Enterprise are starting to purchase the 2.5L Jag X-Type in bulk! It appears most of the problems are corrected and the second year models are relatively trouble free.

    Regarding the X and the S, the X-Type does seem to have more trunk space as jagboyxtype indicates. Thought it was my imagination.

    The ride does seem very similiar between the Lincoln and the 3.0 S-Type! The "professional" reviews even state this.

    After carefully considering the S-Type 3.0 and the S-Type 4.0, I bought an Infinity G35 that is sooooooo very fast and a blast to drive. It is nice to blow BMWs off the road, but it does not "look as nice" as the S-Type IMHO. Saving for the S-Type R which is a dream car at 390 hp.

    Anyone have one or had the chance to drive one yet?
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Posts: 241
    Yes, but unless you really DRIVE the cars pretty hard, a 4.2 is almost as lively, and the 3.0 is no slowpoke either. The X-type 3.0 feels much faster than the S-type 3.0, but both are very refined on the road in terms of ride. The 4.2 S and XJ feel a lot like the sporty X 3.0, but their size keeps them feeling a little less tossable (yet still very fun!). The XKR feels a little faster (maybe because I had the top down?), but is not really a handling car as much as the newer sedans, and that's probably because its chassis is the same one under the old XJS from decades ago.

    Inside, the S-type feels a little bit wider - just enough to be noticeable, but overall, the X-type seems to have larger interior dimensions, including rear seat leg and headroom. The X-type's trunk is also remarkably large for its class, at 16 cubic feet v. about 13 for the S-type (for comparison, the new Rolls has a 16.2 cubic foot trunk capacity). They all use the same leather too!

    That said, I like every one of them (the Jags that is, the new Rolls seems almost cartoony to me, and it is distractingly tall IMHO). The S-type's style is still one of the best on the road, and the X-type's looks grow on me every day. It looks younger to me, and that goes with its character - a little more spirit than the others. The new XJ is great too, but it's still a bit old-manish IMO - I'll take one when I'm older. And despite not having the best chassis compared with the X, S, and XJ, how can a convertible Jaguar XK not be considered cool, or stunning just to view?

    You can pretty much rent any kind of car on the road nowdays. Every model Jaguar (save for the XK I believe) can be rented at Hertz or Enterprise, and Cadillacs and Mercedes and Volvos can be found there and at other rental agencies. Some people at JagTalk tried rent a Jaguar for their trip they were taking (having to leave their kitty at home), but the agency was out of Jags - they are very popular. Most of them ended up with Volvos or Mercs.

    And on the topic of the engine, while the Duratec and its block are very good engines and components in their own right, the version of the block under the X-type's and S-type's hoods have been ribbed, re-enforced, and reshaped by Cosworth/Jaguar's engineering teams, and are not in any way - other than having a distant ancestry - shared or even very much related at all. The Aston Martin V12 comes from the same initial roots as the Jaguar AJ-V6, and is actually closer in relation to it than the Duratec. Darn, the cars are still Jags!
  • vqt2vqt2 Posts: 4
    I understand the ECU reprogram for the hesitation of the engine & transmission but what is replaceing the GECM?? Thanks

    Codes:
    · R935 – Replace GECM – NEW Recall
    · S928 – Revised Crankcase Breather Valve
    · S934 – Restraint Module Reflash
    · S937 – Reprogram ECM/TCM – Reprogramming to stop the engine and the transmission hesitation.
    · S939 – Hose Clamp Replace – NEW issue
    · S936 – Throttle Pedal Stop – NEW issue
    · S918 – Fuse Rating Change (Manual Transmission Only) – NEW issue
    · S921 – 20 AMP Micro Relay
    · Inspect and replace ashtray if necessary (no code, old issue)
    · Inspect and replace trunk latch if issues exist (no code, old issue)
    · Inspect and align AWD if issues exist (no code, persistent issue)
    · Inspect and replace gas latch if issues exist (no code, old issue)

    S = Service
    R = Recall
  • desertguydesertguy Posts: 730
    The recall is for "general electronic control module." Exactly what it does I don't know. I recently had my recall done (4 weeks) and in addition they did the following:

    Crankcase breather valve - renew
    Reprogram restraint control module
    Reprogram existing ECM and existing TCM.

    So... they did four things and mind you I went to the dealer with NO complaints about anything.
  • gerald6gerald6 Posts: 1
    Just put 1000 miles on my x type and must say it is a fabulous car. Not only gorgeous to look at but fun to drive. A real eye-catcher. WE are in our 60's and downsizing from Cadillac. After driving my X the Caddi is like a dinosaur
  • rea98drea98d Posts: 982
    I could be mistaken, but I beleive the floorpan is the only part an XK8 shares with an XJS. That being said, looks alone are a good enough reason to buy an XK8, something that cannot honestly be said about the XJS.
    However, when Ford took over Jaguar, the XJ-40 got replaced with the X300, the XJS with the XK, and then the S and X Types were introduced. After that, the X300 was replaced with the new aluminium X350 XJ, so based on that, and the fact that the XK8 was first introduced way back in 1997, my magic 8 ball is predicting the next new product to come out of Coventry will be a replacement for the XK8.
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    Sorry to answer so late. Just got back from a beach trip with the X. It is amazing how many suitcases and golf bags the wife and I can fit in the trunk. The ride just gets better with age. A little Eagle Talon beat the you know what out of the X 2.5 from a standing stoplight. Oh well. The X looks better and turns so many heads.

    Just got the recall from Jaguar even though they fixed the problem on my last visit.

    Desertguy is correct when explaining what "GECM" stands for. I am giving the board what the service advisors see when they pull the recall on the Jaguar National Computer Network. I am very fortunate to have an excellent service manager who explains everything to me. If anyone in the Washington, DC area needs a good dealership, contact me. It is nice to finally work with a good dealer.

    Recall Action 935 reads: "Directional Indicator Tell Tale Operation System. 2002 and 2003 Model Year Jaguar X-type....VIN Number Range C00294 to D17471. When power is lost to the external directional indicators the internal 'tell tale' indicators located within the instrument pack flash as if there is no fault with the system. Investigations have determined that the design of the General Electric Module that controls this system includes feedback to the driver via a "tell tale" (sic) function for bulb failure but does not include feedback in event of power loss to the external direction indicator system. Therefore in the event of power loss to the direction indicator system and the non-operation of the external indicators, the internal indicators operate normally providing the driver with no warning that there is a failure within the system. Failure to properly signal a turn could lead to a crash.

    To overcome this concern on all affected vehicles Jaguar Cars will replace the General Electric Module with a new unit that contains software providing correct feedback should a power loss occur."

    Important: Bring all car keys to the dealer as the keys and need reprogramming at the time of the service recall.

    Hope this helps clarify for those that did not receive the notice
  • kssodkssod Posts: 37
    3.0 sport manual with x1,x2,x3,alpine and xenons
    delivery 11/01 currently 23k miles

    1) paint not smooth at delivery had to be wet sanded
    2) trunk did not close properly
    3) drivers door would not open latch replaced 2x
    4) overheated- fan relay repaced
    5) brake rotors warped
    6)sunroof button rattles replaced
    7) defroster vents do not stay snapped down
    8) gas gauge failed
    9) overheated again fan relay and thermostat replaced
    10) brakes warp again, sevice guys over torqued lugs
    11)power steering pump leak
    12) gas door would not open
    13) all recalls and electronic TSB performed
    Needless to say I've gotten to know my service personel very well. The current dealer Westside is great. Delivers loaner and picks up but I plan on a repair every 6 weeks or so.
    But the compliments from others are amazing, there just is nothing close in looks as the adriatic blue sport in this price range,
    At 80-100mph it is rock solid and drives great. The new GEM upgrade really smooths out the engine and improves throttle response in third and fourth. Plus it is awesome in the snow
  • vqt2vqt2 Posts: 4
    re: dealership contact you could trust. But youcan post it here if it's more convenient. Thanks
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    It's okay to post the name of a dealership, but not a specific salesperson....
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    Now that it is OK to post a dealership name, Manhattan Jaguar in Rockville, MD is by far the best at service in the Washington, DC area.

    Wish I could post my service advisor's name as he raises the bar for all others. He is the one who gives me the computer codes for my posts as he knows I post edmunds.com.

    BTW - the used car manager is a less than friendly (nobody likes him), so I recommend going straight to a new car salesperson if you want to buy a used Jaguar. Tell them you do not want to deal with the used car manager and they will not put you through the pain and suffering.

    I paid MORE for a vehicle at Manhattan because I know the service is top-notch and hassle-free. You can find cheaper prices elsewhere, but not the same service. So far, I would score them a perfect 10 out of 10!!!

    Hope this helps some in the area suffering with bad dealerships.
  • ps2g4ps2g4 Posts: 2
    Similar to KSSOD, here's my x-type's history to warn anyone who is interested in this car:

    2.5 manual, X1,2,3, moonroof. Delivered Nov 02, about 12K miles on it:
    - Coolant system leak (before delivery) 2 attempts to fix - successful
    - Driver seat squeaks (loud enough to hear over the stereo) 4 attempts to fix -- temporary fix, problem now back
    - moonroof rattle -- 2 attempts to fix - successful
    - dash rattle -- "no problem found" - still rattles
    - driver rear door handle squeaks -- mechanic applied so much lubricant to handle mechanism that it's still leaking out on the door 1 month later (I was told to wash the car & it will be okay -- I suspect that there is a huge gob of lubricant in the door that will sooner or later seep through the interior trim, tan color, and stain it)
    - trunk trim fell out and won't reseat -- waiting on parts
    - driver seat loose -- tightened seat chassis bolts, fixed
    - engine runs rough at idle -- 4 attempts (oxygen sensor replaced, reset ECM for manual trans - was set at auto trans from factory, reflashed ECM with new software) still not fixed
    - brakes seize if car left sitting for more than a day -- 3 attempts, "no problem found" although the service manager told me he saw pad imprints on the rotors, won't replace pads or rotors unless the mechanic "sees" the seized brakes
    - fault indicator "fuel data system failure", just occurred, haven't taken in to service yet.

    The car does have positive attributes, but anyone interested in purchasing has to understand that the traditional poor build quality is still part of the Jaguar experience, and while the service reps are very friendly (I also get a free pen and pad of paper with each visit) the mechanics are no better than average.
  • desertguydesertguy Posts: 730
    I understand YOUR build quality issues. But, the rest of us do not "have to understand" that there is poor build quality overall. My car 3.0 2002 which is now about 18 months old has had absolutely no problems other than the leaky washer jets which were fixed at the first service. Don't drag the whole Jaguar line down because of your problems.
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