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Some of it depends on the equipment she wants on the car - not so much option packages, but things like engine size and transmission. Jaguar has decided to try and raise the number of 3.0 liter sales v. 2.5's, so they actually may have higher incentives on them than the 2.5 models, despite starting at a higher base price - the performance difference is very noticeable to some, and an expected difference by others. How do you think I ended up with the larger engine? Then the transmission choice has a pretty big impact. Most Jaguar buyers still want the automatic transmission, so there are big incentives on the manual trannies - that knocks a few thousand off right there. On top of that, Jaguar is already moving the 2003 cars off the lots to make room for the 2004's to arrive - this is probably the best time of year to buy since they are trying to ship the cars out. PAG rebounded and made $166,000,000 profit recently, so Jaguar shouldn't be too greedy. It shouldn't be too difficult to get the price to where you want it, though you may have to sacrafice the chrome wheels.
Oh yes, the Sport Package would probably be to your liking as it has quite an impact in bringing out the performance spirit of the car - if your wife still wants chrome and the traditional wood color instead of the body-colored sport blades and gray-stained wood, there are some examples of Sport models with chrome and traditional wood out there.
All-out purchasers also get some extra incentives because Jaguar wants to raise the level of purchasers v. leasers. You'll get the price you want if you let them know you want to buy.
I just checked Autosite to see what's out there quickly, but they've got some error and their stupid list only loads just past Chrysler; maybe you'd have better luck. The list was last updated 3/17/03, so it's a pretty good source, though they manytimes aren't aware of all the incentives on cars (like the new Audis in the used pile).
http://www.autosite.com/new/grabbag/rebatet.asp
From previously looking at the list (when it would load all the way), Jaguar's rates and BMW's were usually nearly identical around 2.9%. However, the Jag dealers are usually very much "dealers," and getting them to match the competition with a financing rate shouldn't be that difficult, especially with Jaguar's financing being under Jaguar's control, rather than the parent company's so much. Your dealer will either be very helpful and try to match and/or give a better offer than the competition, or he/she will have the "this is a Jaguar, sir" attitude as if to almost ask you to leave the lot. If you have a great dealer, fantastic deals can happen the way you want them to. With so many companies doing 0% or 1.9%, Jaguar, though not advertizing it, would probably do the same for an interested customer.
"Looks like I'll have to try and talk her into a CTS or LS to get 0.0% financing." Ouch! If she doesn't like "Art & Science," you're going to have to do a lot of talking (I don't think it's a bad looking car, but then I also think that BMW's, Jaguar's, and Mercedes' executions of their styles turned out a little better - IMHO). Does the CTS have 0% on it now? From what I've read from the CTS board (and I'll admit I haven't been there very recently), all the owners had been unable to find 0% deals, as some of Cadillac's cars were not part of the whole "GM Summer Drive Event" or whatever the thing was called (yet somehow Saab got 0%). Autosite says CTS has a 1.9% rate.
With Audi, you might be able to do better than the 1.9% rate for an A4. Things at Audi are worse than is generally known, and with them having moved new 2002 models into the used cars bin, and applying *used* car prices to all of them, a nice deal might come out of that. Audi and BMW were the two cars I also looked at most closely when choosing my car; the A4 got 3rd place out of the group of three. 3-Series and X-type both have strengths in different parts of their performance and drive a little differently, but both are smooth, refined, and balanced. Audi's engines, IMO, both felt a bit lethargic compared to the X-type's and 3-Series' offerings - the 1.8t doesn't match the 2.5's from BMW and Jag, and the Audi 3.0, while matching the BMW 3.0 and Jaguar 3.0 for displacement, creates less horsepower than both and is pulling a car that has hundreds of pounds more in weight compared to the 3 and X - and even though the A4 stuck to the road with Quattro, the chassis design and power distribution from the AWD still show some FWD characteristics compared to 3 and X. X, even though with AWD, has a RWD power bias along with a chassis design that keeps the dynamic weigh distribution of the car at the rear (despite the static weight dist.), further creating RWD handling with AWD grip. The A4 never shifts enough weight dynamically out of its front end to give the rear a bias, and the FWD dynamic weight distribution and the 50/50 torque split together give more power and traction to the front wheels, thus giving the car more FWD characteristics. C&R noted about the same thing with the RS6 in one of their supersedan comparisons. That's just my take on it, but as a performance car, the A4 isn't quite in the same league. It does have a nice interior, but the design seems kind of dated looking to me. Initial quality is also good, but I think about equal to BMW and Jaguar, and in terms of dependability from the J.D. Powers survey, Audi (like Mercedes and Volvo) still have some work to do; Jaguar and BMW both ranked "well above the industry average" at 11th place for Jaguar, making it the highest rated European Luxury Sport sedan marque, and BMW, at 13th place, quite a respectable second, so both Bimmer and Jag might hold up long term better than the Audi. I'm not trying to bash the Audi, that was just my experience with many tests of the car - I still think it's great, but its strengths are not in the same areas as the BMW and Jaguar. Between the Jag and BMW, the X offers more luxury, and the 3 offers a little bit more performance, but both are quite close, with the differentiating gap between them being much smaller than that which separates the Audi from what I've experienced with the cars. But the A4 is also physically about the same size as the 3-Series if your wife really likes that size, though the X-type's larger dimensions aren't really felt when going from one car to the other - it's not a huge difference. The X-type has about 10 inches more length, two inches more width, and two inches less height than the BMW 3 sedan (coupe height and X-type are about equal). I'd say the areas most affected by the X-type's different dimensions than the 3 are the rear seat being a bit larger and especially the trunk. In driving, they all feel the same size; 3 and X were extremely tossable, really begging to be thrown into a curve at illegal speeds and coming out as if you weren't going fast enough; X's AWD benefits really shine through in that area. With no LSD in the BMW, the computer would come on around a corner and make it a little awkward if the car was slipping. AWD wouldn't slip so the curves feel very natural in the Jag. If you want to have the rear end jerk out and slide around a corner in the AWD Jag though, it is possible.
Mine was an all-out purchase, but I got the nearly-loaded X-type 3.0 for invoice. BMW would have done the same for me on 330Ci optioned like the Jag (as close as possible) that I was considering highly, so you might even want to look at them again, too. In the end, it was my personal taste that won out with the Jag, it's luxury, and cornering performance, as either car would have been within $1,000 of the other with the invoice pricing Jaguar and BMW offered me. With Jaguar, being a purchaser - all out or through financing - usually brings out more incentives, in financing through rates.
Has anyone gotten a better deal? We're looking into the 2.5 non-sport model w/ auto tranny.
the ford side my family walked away from years and now the Jaguar side
1 they fix nothing correct
2 you get you car back dirty
3 they say well come back and we will get it correct like i have the time
4 they do not sell at good price anymore and the dealership is to be sold soon because of thier failing system
bye bye bye bye bye
can not deal with a high end buyer in a crap area
Platinum Plant Quality Award, Worldwide
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A.--Tahara, Japan (Car)
Gold Plant Quality Award, Europe
BMW of North America-Munich, Germany
Silver Plant Quality Award, Europe
DaimlerChrysler - Bremen, Germany
Bronze Plant Quality Award, Europe
Ford Motor Company--Torslanda, Sweden (Car)
So, I'd like more information on the Halewood plant being "the best in the industry", please.
Check out what's being said in the media of Halewood's current production quality, etc. Here are two quotes I just took out of articles that popped up out of quick google searches:
+"Well done to the Halewood workforce. It shows they can compete with the best and their hard work has secured the long-term future of the plant."
+"Assembly of Britain's best selling 4x4, the Land Rover Freelander, will transfer
mid-decade to Halewood on Merseyside with the next generation model. The
Halewood plant, one of the highest performing plants in the Ford Motor Company,
will build the Freelander alongside Jaguar's highest volume premium product -
the award-winning X-Type."
The new management at Halewood told them to shape up and get quality and production right, threatening that if that did not occur quickly, the plant would not be recommended for future vehicles or possibly even continued production of X-type, which would have been moved elsewhere in England. X-type quality skyrocketed with newly adopted rules at Halewood; Jaguar jumped up the J.D. Powers dependability and quality surveys, and is the highest ranked European luxury car maker on the list.
________________________________________
timbesq & alpineman:
Jaguar is trying to move all of its 2003 cars off the lots to make room for the 2004's to arrive. Diesel introductions and the high modifications to cars such as the 2004 S-type (new rear end, new hood/bonnet, other upgrades) and 2004 X-type (new trunk/boot plinth design, new trims, more interior materials and colors available, new aluminum use and bolt-together frame technology, lighter weight, etc.) are occuring in Europe now, and the new cars will come over quite soon. It's the best time of year to get a car from Jag. It's also been profitable for Jaguar; Mark Fields, head of PAG, has been bringing up that while Ford Europe has been losing money, PAG has actually been a profit maker. With everything shaping out, PAG, for in stance in the last quarter, generated $166,000,000. That, combined with other profits, has already pulled them out of "the red." Seems win/win for both sides, especially with the quality being way up, too.
Were I you, I would print the online quotes you have and get a list of dealers within whatever distance is acceptable to you. This can be done at jaguar.com. Call them, let them know what you have by way of a quote, and see if they will beat it. You probably will find at least one who will. You may even be able to play them against each other to some extent. Just be polite about it. It's good to have a positive relationship with the dealer for the future.
If no one is able to beat the quote, then you're probably about as low as you can get right now. In any event, it sounds like you can get a really good deal now. My deal was quite good a month ago. I probably jumped the gun a bit, and I knew it at the time, but Timmy always was an impatient boy...
On the subject of the 2004 models, I found some pictures of the 2.0D on the following site:
http://www.babez.de/jaguar/xtype20d.php
Looks like cloth is the entry level fabric. Also, looking at the center stack, it appears that the thing can be had without automatic climate control. Jaguar's UK website indicates that this model, in the UK, is priced about the same as a 2.5 with automatic, leather and automatic climate control is here. I guess it doesn't pay to drive in Britain with their whopping VAT.
A picture I found on another site (sorry, forgot to note the address) showed the stern. It did not look significantly different. The front end appears the same. There may be minor changes to sidelights. Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to conjure up anything that shows the new alcantara, carbon fibre or other interior surfaces. Not being a real racing, carbon-fibre kind of guy, I'm happy with my Connelly and wood, but I am curious. If anyone conjures anything up, please post the address.
For these and other tidbits, see:
http://www.carpages.co.uk/jaguar/jaguar_the_new_x_type_diesel_par- t_9_15_06_03.asp
This is actually the last of several pages, but there are links to carry you back.
I know that I saw a picture of a 2.0D with a left-side steering wheel and I believe that it's coming here, but I'm not entirely certain. If you do a web search for info, I have found that "jaguar x-type 2004" yields next to nothing helpful but "jaguar x-type diesel" gets results.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
As for the cloth and manual controls in some of the Jag pictures, Jaguar has always offered such features since at least the time of the XJ40 in the most basic versions of each of its cars. The wood is always there though. The standard leather and all-automatic controls in our U.S. cars came because in Europe, our cars would be "SE" models, which are a step up from the base models. It's not a new base trim level because of diesels or anything like that.
On the diesels, I doubt that they will be coming to the U.S. The left-hand-drive diesel was probably meant for export into another European nation where cars are not right-hand-drive (France, Germany, Italy - Jaguar's 3rd largest market). A 2.0 liter engine is too small for the American market, but in Europe, that size is coveted for its economic/performance balance.
The diesels and new X-type have been getting some good reviews. The author of the following article praised the 2.0 D's refinement and quietness compared to its competition:
"If Jaguars are meant to be quiet, this really is the Jaguar of diesels. Sure, it only has four cylinders and we're used to Jags being both petrol-fuelled and better endowed with cylinders. So this is by far the roughest and noisiest Jaguar in living memory. But alongside the direct competition — which means the Germans — it just hums along..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/main.jhtml?xml=/motoring/2003- /07/18/emfjag19.xml
It aparently has some turbo lag, but not more so than any other turbo-diesels. Impressive that the engine is so refined even compared to the German diesels - it must really be a great engine if it is so much smoother and quieter as the author says it is. The real advancement though will be when the Peugeot/Jaguar 6-cylinder diesel appears.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
QUOTE OF THE DAY:
"I know many people in Hollywood with Jaguars and I really like the X-type."
- Partrick Steward from "Cat's Tales" in the latest edition of "Jaguar" Magazine. He owns an XJS convertible. As a Star Trek fan (not a Trekkie so much, I just watch it sometimes) and someone who liked the X-Men movies, it's nice to know that Mr. Steward also has very good taste in cars. Who would have thought that a big Hollywood celebrity's favorite new Jaguar would be an X-type?
JAG
JAG
I think I'll lock up the car today.
The idiot came to a complete stop. I had to push the Jag's brakes to their limit and they responded well. The car remained straight as an arrow and I missed the BMW by a hair. The ABS system acted with precision.
The BMW then sped away through the now yellow light. Bad way to test any braking system, but at least we can all feel safer knowing Jaguar did a great job with the system.
I am very happy with this car and the wonderful service, despite the lackluster 2.5 engine. Anyone in the "looking zone" can be assured there are many happy X-Type owners.
There will always be a Jag in my family. After owning many Japanese cars, there simply is NO comparison IMHO. I do not care what the Edmund's review panel says. This is one fine automobile.
One of my favorite parts of the X is how it handles curves, and with the 3.0, the effortless acceleration. I don't know how many other people drive their car with the, uh, "passion" that I do, but the X-type has been able to take everything I've thrown at it, which means a lot of high-speed maneuvering where I shouldn't be going so fast. There is some body roll, but I don't have the sport suspension, and the roll is more communicative than anything else; it's different from the roll of other cars, which feel tippy at the limits - X is always planted firmly, and the little bit of roll lets you know the degree of the turn, etc. At the limit, the car actually stabilizes, feeling like the suspension decided to push back against the forces of gravity, so the slight roll is very good feedback. Anyway, there's this "S" curve in my area, and the speed limit recommends 35 mph; the X can take it at 70 while passing cars and the curve is not balanced meaning that if it continued in its arc, it would form a spiral getting smaller as you go along, instead of a circle, so it gets narrower as you go, making for a more difficult situation. It simply amazes me with how well the steering and suspension and chassis work together; the Vanden Plas is just too mushy all over to take spirited driving that far, and the S-type's steering imprecision compared to the X-type keeps it from staying in its lane as well as the X-type can carve away on a path at such speed (and my S has the sport suspension with CATS, and the standard X-type surpasses it in terms of chassis and suspension performance).
I don't know about the 2.5, but the 3.0 and the transmission in my car have been refining over time. There used to be just a nano-second of delay with the transmission (much less so than with the VDP though), and then a sudden jolt of power would force its way through, and cause a slightly unpleasant bump before acceleration. Well, no more. It's truly smoother than my S-type now. Push the pedal and the power is right there with perfect precision and pedal feel. I think the tranny and the engine began to understand each other after being taken to the redline a few times. Nearly flooring the accelerator a few times (in a safe area) seems to clean out wherever the tranny's pause used to be, because the whole drivetrain is like silk. Perhaps just slamming the pedal once or twice is all that is needed to blast whatever hairball caused the hesitation on some of these kitties out of the system; it worked for me, but since acceleration is so smooth now, all I do is speed - and yes, that's bad, despite how good it feels in the X.
I'm about to take a long trip down to SoCal now - a 10 hour drive in the other Jags, I'll see if the X-type can't do it any faster, I can guarantee that it will. Wish me luck, I'll see how well the car handles long, down California, and then up again trips. And with the huge trunk, I can take all of my stuff with me this time!
I don't know how the 3.0 liter engine compares in all aspects with your G35, but I must say that its ponies have been growing into stallions and it's really shockingly powerful, and I should be used to the power the car has by now. The way the power comes on so effortlessly now that the tranny response is so silky smooth really enhances the car on every level. Try flooring your X a number of times (again, in a safe area) and see if that doesn't get the tranny to be more responsive; it really feels like the jag hacked up some terrible hairball that was blocking the refinement and power of the drivetrain - it's a whole new beast now, honestly. You'll know it worked when there is absolutely no transmission hesitation from a dead launch and the power just seems much more plentiful. It's definitely something to do with the computer's codes, as I read somewhere that the car has to be taken up to a certain speed in order for certain computer codes to become active. Maybe that 2.5 liter engine of yours will not be the sore spot of the car after blasting the car off a few times.
BTW, I love how quickly the A\C cools the car off on hot days. I hope in the winter it heats just as quickly.
I've only had one problem, which is that my driver door speaker has begun sounding a little tinny. Will soon see how well the service dept. responds.
The only thing I like about the G35 is that it is scary fast and it is fun to blow almost every BMW (3 and 5 series) off the road. With a few minor and inexpensive modifications, the G35 can be taken to over 300 rwhp. This is not bad for a vehicle in the low 30K range. Other than that, the current X-Type wins hands-down.
Regarding the gas mileage, mine is getting better with age. The Super tends to run better than the plus imho. The engine is tuned to accept a certain octane. I once ran 87 octane and found a noticible performance degradation and a lot of engine pinging.
help please especially previous jag owners
Has anyone else had a bent wheel problem that just happened without hitting anything?
Can these wheels be straightened? Could the dealer be wrong and I have a slipped belt on a tire or two?
Any input will be appreciated. The car will be one year old next week.
M
Can the wheel be straightened? Can the dealer be wrong and I do have a problem with the Continental Tires?
Any input will be appreciated.
Thank you.
Did you hear the sound while cornering quickly? With AWD gripping all the time, any kind of traction loss, such as a turning wheel at high speeds, can create a sound. All wheel drive cars are more prone to this as they hold the road all around. But you wouldn't hear the sound unless you had a window open since the car's sound insulation is so good. That's the only time I ever hear anything and it is always very quiet if it does happen.
If you do indeed find damage to the rims, Jaguar may help you free of charge, depending on your dealer. Look it up; I believe there is a 12000 mile warranty that covers most any damage that the owner of the car causes to the car. I hit a massive pothole/rock pile that chipped my rim, which in turn slashed my tire and caused my car to bottom out at about 50 mph - scary. My Jaguar dealer and Continental replaced everything completely free of charge, so they may help you as well. My rim wasn't bent though. It was only chipped with a jagged piece of metal shooting out of it. If they don't take care of the costs completely, they should at least help out a little bit. Good luck.
The noise slowly built up and sounds like a slipped belt in a tire, a whopping sound. The sound is quite loud especially around 50 mph. The noise is always there.
Otherwise the car has been very good, the best feature is the steering, I can go onto a NYS Thruway on ramp at 60 mph with no sway or lean, the car has the best turning radius I have ever driven. I agree with most of the reviews on the car, the inside is too plane, I have never owned a car this basic in the interior.
It is not a chore to deal with Jaguar like it is with other manufacturers. There will be a Jaguar in my family for life!
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=39223
The cargo area is supposed to be one of the best designed in the sport wagon/shooting brake/estate class offering more space and real utility than rivals, and the wagon also looks to be the introductory platform for two six-speed transmissions into the X-type range: an automatic and a manual.
The Estate will also be available with all of the new engines such as the Jaguar/PSA Peugeot-Citroen 2.0 D that have been introduced all the way up to the big powerful petrol/gasoline 3.0 liter.
Some Notable Quotes:
"While the front and central sections of the car may look similar to the standard saloon, the Jaguar is virtually all-new from the A-pillar backwards. The wheelbase is unchanged, but there's a revised roofline, new back doors and modified side skirts. Fresh light clusters have also been designed, while the rear bumper has been revamped to take account of the extended overhang."
"The exclusive detailing doesn't stop there, as the X-Type Estate will also be equipped with roof bars and discreet badging. At the rear, it's obvious Jaguar has decided to produce a practical load-lugger, rather than a lifestyle estate. We can't show you pictures of the interior load space and don't yet have details of the exact capacity, but it's worth pointing out that the cargo area seems generous compared to class rivals."
"In a further nod to versatility, Jaguar has developed a rear windscreen that opens independently of the tailgate. The rear seats also fold separately to offer a wide range of storage options. However, until the car's debut at Frankfurt, Jaguar is remaining tight-lipped about precise technical specifications."
"The introduction of this car is a significant step for Jaguar, as it has never produced an official estate before. Historically, load-lugging Cats have been a treat for the wealthy enthusiast, as the cars were available only on a bespoke basis through exclusive coachbuilders. Lynx was one such company - it built the XJS Eventer in the mid-Eighties. However, this was a limited production run for the well heeled only - the new Estate is a far more affordable vehicle."
It came down to leasing the Jag or an Infiniti M45. The Infiniti was a great deal also but of course was substamtially more than the x-type. At 340 hp it was almost worth the difference but the overiding factor was the AWD on the Jaguar. Last winter here in Connecticut a car like the M45 would have been parked for plenty of days.
Thanks, Jeff
If it was me ready to purchase, I would go after the '03 because of the great dealer incentives being offered. There is no guarantee these will be held over for the '04 models. From everything I have read, there is little change in the '04s.
I have a 3.0 auto which is now about 20 months old and I love it and have had no problems.
The ONLY advantage the Infinity has is the engine power. The car is a literal rocket....almost scary fast. Funny how the coupe has 280hp and the sedan has 260hp when they use the same engine with only one minor modification. The Nissan 350z (same engine) has 287hp while the 3.5 Nissan Altima has 240hp (same engine). Great Japanese marketing?
The '03, G35 appointments are cheap and the finish is lacking. The front brake pads wear within 12K miles and the rotors warp. The ride is harsh and RWD makes it impossible to drive with snow. The CD changer jams CD's and many customers are on their 5th CD changer in a year. The driver's seat becomes dislodged from the seat track and rocks. Moreover, many a/c units need replacement and there is a serious brake switch recall. Customer service is downright terrible if you have a problem. It appears the Japanese do not give a darn about customers once they purchase. Check out the Edmunds G35 Problems and Solutions Board or the regular G35 Board.
Now, this is the '03 Motor Trend car of the year? What are they smoking?
The '03, 2.5 Jag has a lackluster engine (at best), but I love everything else. Your choice of the 3.0 is far superior to the 2.5. A stock Nissan Sentra out raced my 2.5 Flintstonemobile the other day. I needed to bore a hole in the floor and use foot power to keep up with the Sentra.
The X-Type cornering is fantastic and the ride is so smooth. Service after sale is wonderful. AWD and elegant styling put icing on the proverbial cake. In my humble opinion, there is no comparison between the two cars. Forget what the Edmunds Editors say about the X-Type and listen to the people who own the vehicle.