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Jaguar X-Type

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Comments

  • vckvck Member Posts: 7
    Hi,
    This is the first msg I have ever posted to any chat board. I was hoping to get some info from others who have experience with or who own an Xtype, as I know noone who owns one.

    I am considering a used '03 C320 4matic or a new '04 X-type. I'm kind of drawn to the X-type because I can prob get a new one for less than the used C comparably equipped. I like the styling of the X and the features as well. However, I have been a bit leary bec of Jag's past reputation re: mechanical issues. I have been a Benz owner for many years (mult diff classes), and have always had a good experience re: reliability. I know the C will be solid mechanically. I plan to own this next car -- either C or X -- for 5 years, so I really want to get a car that's fun to drive, equipped nicely (the 320W Alpine in the X sounds amazing!), and solid mechanically.

    What do others feel about the X, esp the new model ones if you have experience?
    Thanks.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi vck - welcome to the Town Hall.

    Why don't you read through some of the past messages here? I think you'll find lots of good information. Also you can use the Search This Discussion feature on the page bar to look for posts with any specific keywords.

    Good luck!
  • zoo_bzoo_b Member Posts: 18
    Are you looking at the 2.5 or the 3.0? I have owned my 2.5 X-Type for almost 2 years and only had a few minor problems that the dealership took care of pretty well. I must say though, I too have worries about the X-Type down the road, but heck Mercedes hasn't been good lately either....as my relative needed her CLK replaced twice by the dealership due to defects! By the way, the 4wd on the Jag is better than that of the MB.
  • rwcliftonrwclifton Member Posts: 19
    Anyone know if Jaguar is planning an X-Type R?? I thought I had heard talk in the past about producing one but I haven't heard or read anything about it in a while. Thanks.
  • farisafarisa Member Posts: 3
    I am the proud owner of a Platinum 02 X-Type Sport (5spd). Purchased in 6/02 as a 05/02 build. I must say that I'm not as fortunate as the rest of you regarding reliability. 2 engine overheats thus far and quite a few other issues. The tow truck driver also told me that my X-type is the 13th X-type he has towed for overheating. On top of everything, the first overheat happened the night I purchased the vehicle. Here's an email I sent to Jag NA:

    ============================
    As the clock strikes six and my long, stressful day comes to an end, I look forward to my half hour commute in my shiny Platinum X-Type Sport. I could not say the same for today's commute though. To my surprise, I was graced with another engine overheat during my commute home. In case you're wondering when was the first time; the night I purchased the vehicle, I learned that a red light DOES flash when the vehicle overheats. On that same night, I had the opportunity to experience the prompt service of roadside assistance as well. Of course this is information that I would have been happy to do without as a new Jaguar owner. I did not expect it to happen again. The madness doesn't stop there. Allow me to summarize all the issues I've experienced in 18,000 miles of ownership:

    6/28/02 - First hours of ownership; Engine Overheat & no A/C; Stranded with passengers (very embarrassing); vehicle towed to Dealer; replaced fan regulator.

    3/28/03 - Bouncy ride; Shocks were leaking; Shocks ordered.

    4/16/03 - Drove over 2 weeks with faulty shocks until they arrived. Got to experience the bouncy ride of my old 4Runner; Shocks replaced.

    6/16/03 - Recalls R935, S937, S934; Handbrake housing cracked & loose; Brake cable making noise, Dash vents popping out,

    10/21/03 - Dash vents popping out; Check engine light on due to fouled spark plugs.

    2/10/04 - Engine overheat; Stranded with passengers again (very embarrassing again) reason TBD. (turned out to be a faulty thermostat). Loose driver seat and Dash vents STILL popping out.

    My ownership experience has been very unpleasant thus far. There seems to be quite a few quality control issues with my vehicle which is leading me to believe it was a Friday 5:00PM car. Just for clarification, my issue is not with the dealership. I do not want their efforts to go unnoticed. They have been very helpful and cordial. My issue is with my vehicle. Its reached the point where being stranded a third time always crosses my mind. This is unacceptable for a vehicle of this stature.

    Sour as a Lemon............

    ============================

    It took almost a week to get this response from JagNA:

    Dear Sir,

    Thank you for contacting Jaguar Cars.

    I was sorry to learn of the problems you experienced with your Jaguar. Please contact our Customer Relationship Center at 1-800-452-4827,option 9, so that one of our representatives can look into your concerns further.
    ============================

    Puleeze.. At least have the courtesy to forward my email to the "Customer Relationship Center" youself. Wait a second; I thought jaguarowner@jaguar.com WAS the "Customer Relationship Center". Whatever..

    On top of all this, I still like my car. I guess it is emotional after all.....

    Would I go Jag again.....Not sure. We'll see how the rest of my lease goes....
  • zoo_bzoo_b Member Posts: 18
    Hey it seems like all your problems are common. I have a 2.5 X-Type delivered in April 2002. I have had your problems too. Once I was stranded arriving to work with smoke billowing out the hood due to the faulty thermostat. The dash vents have been replaced and are still trying to pop out again. As for the seat, it was loose and I brought it in for a fix. But not too long later a spring about 6 inches long pops loose and shoots me in the leg while driving. I also had the opportunity to replace the headlamp washer cover which fell off in the middle of a ride.
    These are no doubt quality control problems with Jaguars, and it is known that the Jaguar operations in North America is a disaster, and that dealers are very frustrated with the company. I guess I can consider myself lucky that my problems are not resurfacing as you have experienced. Hey, at least you've leased yours.
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=44270
  • mjc440mjc440 Member Posts: 76
    Let's hope they dump their reliability problems too.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Just turned over 10,000 miles on my 2003 X-type 2.5 manual purchased in Aug. of 2003. Have had no problems whatsoever outside of a flat tire caused by a nail. No squeeks, rattles, rocking seats, or any other problem. I am totally satisfied with this car.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Consumers' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2004 Survey is posted and ready for your input!
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    But thought I might cross post it here (actually two post combined here but anyway):

    Just curious why the general disdain for the X-type. I don't own one, but I've spent a little time in one. I just don't get the hatred of it. Really size, luxury and peformance wise it is very similar to the old Mk I and Mk II Jag sedans of the 50's and 60's. Good car and true to Jag history if you ask me except for the AWD part. I would prefer the more traditional RWD. I actually don't mind the platform sharing (just something that we're going to have to accept in today's market) but the car seems well composed and for those that knock the interior, it seemed much nicer that the c-class and 3-series that it competes against.

    The only big thing I can think of is that people have come to think of Jaguar as only being the XJ8 and anything other than that they reflexively don't like as a "cheap" Jaguar. I'll have to try to look it up, but I wonder what my '67 Jag Mark II cost in relation to the rest of the market? Probably was a "cheap" Jag then too.

    ********

    I think part of the problem is that you could ask 10 people what a Jaguar "should be" and you'll get 10 different answers. Anything from "sports cars" from people that think of the old XK's, E-types and the XK8.....to sporty cars (the previous and the light, fast sedans of the 60's) to "Luxury" the old Mk V through X's and the XJ6, XJ8 and XJ12's. I'm guessing that's at the root of the issue.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    It's not just because the platform is shared, it's that you can actually "see" that the platform is shared due to some cheap interior pieces.
    Actual and imagined reliability problems, poor resale value and a very scattered dealer network make it less attractive than a BMW or Lexus.
    Unless you happen to live and or work very near one of the few Jaguar dealerships, it could be very inconvenient to drop the car off for maintenance and warranty repairs due to the small dealer network.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    I find the "cheap interior pieces" comments odd as it seems nicer inside than a competing C-class or 3 series. I still think part of it is that it is not as nice as a XJ8 inside and people dismiss it as a Jaguar because of it. (Now for those of you playing along at home, if you happened to note that the X-type is half the price or less of a XJ you might have already expected that).

    Seriously, I went back-to back-to back from the Jag and Mercedes dealer onto the BMW dealer on the same day with 30 minutes of each other (the Mercedes dealer in town is co-located with the Jaguar dealership). The X had a nicer interior than the C or the 3 series. At least to me it did. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but it was nicer.

    *as far as the reliabilty thing goes, I remember Edmunds making a huge ordeal out of its early *production* X-type and how it just was a pile of junk and how they couldn't understand how Jag could have dropped the ball like this.........only later did they sheepishly admit that it was a pre-production model. Probably just a simple miscommunication between Edmunds and Jag, but that definetly got the car off on the wrong foot as far as public opinion on the Townhall was concerned.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    The X-Type has nice leather and wood, so it seems more "plush" at first glance, but you can see some cheap plastic parts if you look around.
    That alone is not enough to cross it off my list. I don't care about those small pieces "that much."
    The resale value is very bad and the limited dealer network for servicing is too small. There are two Lexus dealers and 2 BMW dealers in my area and only one Jaguar dealership. The Jaguar dealership is located where it would add an hour to my commute in traffic if I needed to drop the car off for service before work and and pick it up after work.
    The possibility of receiving a "free" loaner car does not solve this problem.
    Maybe Ford should consider training their Ford dealership techs to do warranty work on Jags.
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    Actually, a lot of dealers will do a pick-up/drop-off service for you. Drive to work like you normally do, they'll pick your car up, and deliver it back when it's finished. If it's a long job, they'll leave a loaner. Granted not all do this, but a lot do.

    In terms of the interior, yes, the X-Type has plastic in it. But the original point is that the competition has as much or more. The 3-Series and C-Class are filled with cheap feeling plastic parts. Far more than the X-Type, but yet, the X-Type gets abused for it, and the others don't. The fact that the 3-series comes with plastic seats not leather standard is outrageous, and yet nobody says a word. The point is that there is a double standard, because I agree with the poster above, the X-Type is compared to the XJ (or other Jaguars) rather than the competition.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    I'll check with the one and only local Jaguar dealership to see if they offer drop off service.
    That still leaves resale issues. The poor residual value leads to bad trade-in value and unattractive lease costs.
    I suppose very heavily subsidized manufacturer-sponsored lease deals could overcome that problem if they chose to do so.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    glad someone else sees the same thing I do.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    I checked and they don't offer drop off service at the local dealer.
    It would be too much hassle to drive that far out of my way if it needed any warranty repairs, so it's off my list again.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Member Posts: 160
    Hey nice name!
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    you (or your family) isn't connected to southern africa by chance are you? don't know of any jontys who aren't.
  • aw57aw57 Member Posts: 12
    I have a 2001 x-type 3.0. I have read about the whining noise but my car did not have it until this year. I took the car to the dealer, who claimed that he never heard of this problem before (I should have left when he said that and gone to another dealer). After I left the car with him, he told me that he called Jaguar and was advised to install a new driveshaft and then did that. Even with the new driveshaft, I am still hearing the same noise. Does anyone know what the fix is (if there is one) because my dealer does not know what to do?
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    is the whine coming from the engine/underneath the car or the steering wheel area? two different whines, two different solutions. the driveshaft replacement is the correct solution to the whine coming underneath or the engine -- as long as they replaced it with the new design. it sounds like your dealer may simply have replaced it with the old design, since they didn't even know of the problem. the other whine (from the steering wheel) is fixed by changing the steering fluid. they have a new formula that eliminates the whine.
  • zoo_bzoo_b Member Posts: 18
    My car too has a whining sound when it is moving from about 40km/h to 60km/h. I dunno if it's a problem or just the way it sounds cause the engine/transmission is not a snice as some other cars? Mine is a 2002, so is this whining the same as what you guys are referring to with the driveshaft?
  • aw57aw57 Member Posts: 12
    The whine is from underneath the car. I also have squeaking coming from the steering wheel, but that's a completely different sound. I don't understand why they would have replaced a driveshaft in 2004 with an old design. I suppose when it becomes unbearable, I'll go back and try again. I thought I read somewhere that it's not a matter of replacing the driveshaft but of adjusting the weights on it. However, presumably the new redesigned driveshaft is properly weighted.`
  • aw57aw57 Member Posts: 12
    It sounds like the same type of noise. Mostly, I get it at lower speeds - under 40 miles an hour. However, I did get it one day at highway speeds. When you bring it back to the dealer for servicing, have them look at it and mention that, from what you have heard, it may be the driveshaft and see what they say.
  • floridaxfloridax Member Posts: 1
    Just completed 2000 miles in my new 2.5 manual. Please with the steering, ride, gas (23 commuting, 28 highway) and solid feel. Disappointed in the cruse and window lock lights being not viable ! Questions:
    a) The clutch is too abrupt, and hard to make smooth changes - is this normal ? a clunk is also starting to be heard and felt from the transmission.
    b) Is there a global open/close on the windows ?
    c) Speedo is about 3% fast, is this normal? and can it be reprogrammed for 17" tires which would fix the problem (mine has 16").
    d) Can a cell phone be easily wired into the audio system ?
    e) I changed the radio to the European setting for the improved FM, but have to cycle through LW & MW, can this be avoided ?
    f) Oil is still looking like "honey", though am wondering if waiting till 10K miles is too long for the first change.
    Appreciate any advice.
  • eurosnobeurosnob Member Posts: 7
    I can find no mention on the official Jaguar website as to whether the X-Type has an outside temperature indicator in the car? I am particularly interested in the 2.5 liter version. Can anyone who has this car help me out here? Is there an indicator of outside temperature in this car??? Thanks.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I have a 2003 X-type 2.5 5 speed, very basic model. The only option is the CD player. The Automatic temperature control display does have an outside temperature indicator.
  • vckvck Member Posts: 7
    Hi,
    I am considering buying an '04 3.0 X-type. My other possibility is a used '03 C320 4matic(or possibly new '04 if I can afford it). I think the BMW is way overpriced for what you get (new or used), and am not a huge fan of Audi.

    What are people's thoughts on the X 3.0 vs C320 4M? Both would be automatics. How is the reliability of the X in reality. This is the one issue that I'm truly concerned about. Resale is also another issue, but it's cheaper up front as well so almost a wash in the end.

    I own and ML so I've driven the C extensively as a loaner. It's very nice, but not particularly inspiring. It also gets pricey very quickly. It has a lot of nice little features and feels very solid, but not a particularly good sound system and the Nav (if you get it) is still CD based. People seem to complain a lot about the X interior, but it seems pretty ok to me. The BMW has FAR more plastic.
    Thoughts from others are welcomed!
    thanks
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Mercedes Benz quality has been on a downward trend, check out the JD Powers IQS surveys and other consumer sources on reliability. Jaguar finished #3 in the latest IQS and the 04 MY X-types are much improved in quality over the 02 MY vehicles. My 03 X-type has had no issues in 14,000 miles of spirited driving.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Has anything really been improved in quality on the 2004 X-Type?
    I know they added more standard equipment and lowered prices on the 3.0, but what have they really done to improve quality?
    Mercedes claims the 2005 C-Class will have improved quality.
    http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/Projects/c2c/cda/c2c_DCComPrint/1,- - ,0-5-7145-1-165309-1-0-0-0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html?PrintLa- - yout=243

    Has Jaguar made any similar claims?
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The drop in warranty costs and improved IQS numbers show the increase in quality. Do you have any evidence that quality hasn't improved? I hope Mercedes does improve their quality, they are a fine historical marque. However, if you read Autoextremist.com there is at least doubt in my mind that the current management will pull it off. Putting out PR claims of future quality is easy, pulling it off is the hard part. I've never seen any company claim that their future products will be anything less than state of the art machines that will turn the industry on it's ear.
  • vckvck Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for the info.
    I agree that MB saying it's going to do one thing and then actually pulling it off are two completely different issues. They said that they would make the ML better as well, and I've yet to see that truly happen.

    The C is out for me. It's down to X or A4 3.0Q. I drove the X today and was a bit surprised that it was a little sluggish on pick up, moreso than I'd expected. Other than that, though, it was a joy to drive. The J gate is actually kind of fun, I thought. It certainly felt solid. The salesman told me that Jag changed vendors for a lot of parts after 2002 when they had a lot of problems. Since then the 03 and 04's are apparently much better.

    The A4 is very quick and agile. A used 03 with low miles is for sale near me for $32K which sounds pretty good. The interior of the A4 is very very nice w/ dual AC zones, etc etc. But it feels more cramped than the X.
    Thoughts on the A4 vs X?
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Haven't driven an A4, so really can't comment on the vehicle. One thing about the X-type, it has an adaptive transmission and engine ECM. Takes a while to adapt to your driving style from the default settings. The engines also free up after a couple of thousand miles and become more responsive. It isn't a race car though.
  • zoo_bzoo_b Member Posts: 18
    Was in the same position as you were 2 years ago, deciding between the A4 and the X-Type. I eventually settled on the X-Type mostly because the dealers are better. The Audi dealership trested me as if I had to beg them to sell me the car. And another thing is the service department which had no idea about the tire and wheel combo I was inquiring about. I thought to myself I didn't want to deal with these idiots for the 4 yrs that I'd bring my car back for service. Anyways I am very happy with the X-Type. I have a 2002 and it's been relatively trouble free, except for the overheating due to a thermostat that went haywire. Besides, the interior is far more inviting than the A4 despite the nice feeling materials they put in there.
  • vckvck Member Posts: 7
    Tincup/Zoo b,
    Thanks for info. I didn't realize the X had an adaptive transmission. Maybe it will open up more over time. I was told the A4 did by my friend who owns one and loves his. He actually has lent me his car for the w/e to "try it out" and decide which I like better.

    The A4 is nice, but for all the raving that reviewers do about the A4 interior being the best in this class, I've got to say the changes they made mid-way through the year on the new X's are much nicer! The only perk in the A4 is dual climate control settings.

    Zoo -- interesting you bring up the Audi dealership experience. I'm in Massachusetts and a colleague of mine said the exact same thing. He said that they completely ignored him the whole time he was in the showroom, then treated him poorly. He was so put off he left and bought a Saab!

    The more I drive various cars and talk to people (like you guys) the more I lean to the X. Any thoughts on the service networks? I've read that getting parts can be a pain sometimes...
  • hd665hd665 Member Posts: 5
    Has anyone noticed the humming that comes out of the sensor just to the right of the steering column on the dash? I notice the hum when I'm in the car without the engine on. The dealership says that's normal as it is a sensor that is testing the air. Now every once in a while is starts ticking that's very noticable, even over the radio. I think I'll have it replaced, but was wondering if anyone else had experienced the hum...
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The hum is normal. It is a fan for the temperature sensor for the ATC. Clicking does not sound normal though.
  • bigguyjerbigguyjer Member Posts: 13
    Can't comment on A-4.

    But, I took delivery of new 2004 X-Type 3.0 automatic in December 2003.

    Mileage is now approaching 8500 and I have had zero problems with car.

    Had oil and filter changed at 5000 miles (my expense)and Jaguar will pay for 10,000 mile service coming up. Very pleased with my treatment at dealership - Patrick Jaguar in Naperville, IL (Chicago suburb) - dropped off car, picked up loaner for the day and picked up my car at end of my workday.

    Car handles great in snow.

    I love the car. It is fun to drive and nice looking. Mine is British Racing Green with tan interior.

    My previous car was a Lexus GS400 2000 year model.

    In my opinion for the price you pay and the features you get, Jaguar X-Type is the best value for the money.

    Hope that this helps in your decision.

    Best wishes.

    Jerry
  • zoo_bzoo_b Member Posts: 18
    Well I have had excellent service from my dealer, although it is outside of the city I reside. They always have courtesy cars available, and the car is hand washed everytime it goes in for service. So the car is clean inside and out everytime.
    The time the car went in for the overheating incident due to the faulty thermostat, I got the car back in one day. So not bad.
    Oh yeah like bigguyjer says, the car is very good in the snow. It handles the icy and snowy road better than my Nissan Murano.
    And yes I'd say it's good value for the money because I did get a good deal on my car. We thought the car may have been out of the price range we were looking at, but we were pleasantly surprised that after the negotiation the price was very reasonable.
    The only thing I'd change in the X-Type is the engine. It can be a smoother V6 engine.
  • vckvck Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for all the helpful comments on this board.
    I bought the 2004 3.0 X type w/ sport & premium pkgs today! They have to ship the car from elsewhere bec none in stock at my dealer so it'll be a week or so before I get it, but I can't wait!

    I'll check in again after I pick it up and have driven it for a couple weeks....
    vk
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Do keep us updated - and have fun! :)
  • nferrnferr Member Posts: 32
    Have fun with the new car. I leased one last October (2.5 manual) and it now has 8800 miles. Not one trip back to the dealership yet. Its been a great car and has a unique combination of smooth,luxurious ride and tight handling. And its a great looker too.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Does anyone have a link to stats on the X-Type-specific rankings in intial quality and and long term dependability?

    I have seen some numbers broadly covering Jaguar as a whole, but not broken down by model.
  • vckvck Member Posts: 7
    I looked for the JD Power info, but couldn't find anything model-specific. At the dealership, they are, however, flaunting the overall #3 Jaguar rating in IQS for 3 of the past 4 years. Big jump up for them.
    You can try this link:

    http://forums1.roadfly.org/jaguar/forums/xtype/5041082-1.html

    Incidentally, I posted a ? on another board, but didn't get any responses. Maybe you guys have some thoughts --
    What do you think about the clear protective films for the hood that are out there? There are several brands - Xpel, Stongard, and some 3M product. I've read mixed reviews about all of them in terms of wearability long term and issues of bubbling, discoloration, etc. I'm thinking about getting one for my new car bec I hate paint chips, but don't want to spend $500-$1000 just to see it do more harm to the car than good.
  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    I heard that some results are skewed because of a high percentage of elderly owners. That may explain some of the brands in the top 5 (Buick, Mercury (and even Jaguar)).
    Apparently older drivers don't complain about small problems and may not notice rattles and other relatively minor problems younger drivers would have had fixed under warranty.
  • jack154jack154 Member Posts: 10
    I am trying to make this decision. I really like certain things about both of them. I wish there was a car that just had the aspects I like about each in 1 car! I have ruled out the BMW, passat, maxima, acura, lexus, toyota, and volvo for various reasons. So here is my jag vs. saab analysis. Any thoughts would be appreciated:

    saab v Jag x

    (s+) softer more comfortable seats seats

    (s+) bigger interior feel (though tech specs say I only have 1 more inch of headroom and everything else is the same... this is weird. I guess it's the positioning in the saab which is more comfortable and upright than the jag which is kinda low and tight)

    (s-) front wheel drive feels slippery...what will this be like in the rain & snow (jag did amazing in big puddles - couldn't feel or hear them)

    (s-) no nav

    (s+) little road feedback... i can't stand bumpy cars

    (s-) handling is airy and not heavy...not as in control as the jag

    (s+) automatic gear shifting not noticeable at all - like the whole car is in 1 gear

    (s+) seat back heats up too - not just butt like jag

    (s-) blah interior with bad cupholders

    (s+) can use ipod. no chance w/ jag.

    (s+) probably wont be mugged in a saab but may be killed in a jag (live in a gentrifying part of the city)... (despite the small 2k price difference, jag screams "im loaded"... saabs are more nondescript to most)

    (s+) better stereo than jag

    210 hp 4L turbo vs. 227 hp 3.0 L V6
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    ... Why not the TL? Except for the lack of AWD (the reason I would not get it), what is it lacking that you get in the Saab?

    Besides the AWD, the specs alone blow away both the 9-3 and the X-Type.

    (btw, my current car is an X-Type)
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Member Posts: 285
    Do yourself a favor and get the 9-2 Aero with the Scooby WRX engine. Youll thank me later.
  • jonty12jonty12 Member Posts: 101
    do you have any experience with the new TL to lead one to believe it would be a mistake? A random comment suggesting that someone buy a WRX with a $2-3K premium so it can be spelled S-A-A-B is not as helpful as providing reasons for the advice.

    I can think of several why the 9-2 is not on my shopping list and the TL is. Can you provide a few (other than lack of AWD leading to torque steer) why the TL shouldn't be?
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