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Comments
To charge you a $200.00 deductible on each visit is insane and corrupt when you are already forking out $1,240.00 upfront. That's unbelievable and I've never heard of that in my life...... Yes, you should get your refund if you are entitled and then go to another dealer to negotiate an extended warranty if you want one.
Good Luck and don't be afraid to threaten court action if they won't let you back out.
Meade
--Dale
how about the sweet aroma of curry
So really the debate over which is better is moot because we (mean us the debaters) are a niche market. Our cars the Civic and Protege really are so close that what we probably ought to be discussing is who actually can DRIVE their cars. And who will actually TRY to push their cars to the limits that we argue about so much in here. I mean I'll run my car to redline and leave it there on the highway but popping the clutch from standing start... I'd rather not.
The Austin Mini won races against cars with more than twice its power back in it's day with superior handling but it was racing some cars that were lucky to have disc brakes. Since no one here has an MP3 how many think there is enough difference in actual handling for it to matter between an EX and a SE 2.0 in most driving situations.
Not enough curves on most 4 lane roads, so the handling quotient is moot and pretty equal in the power dept so all depend on who's willing to push that little bit extra. That's why the "green car" kept up with a Maxima SE. She wasn't willing.
80 to 100 mph is nothing. I mean the speed limit is 70. If you are in a car that makes you think that 100 mph is fast, you need another car. Try 1986 RX7 base stripped 147 mph, 1991 MR2 Turbo 145, 1992 300zx Twin Turbo 152 mph. All cars I've owned on an empty stretch of highway. I cruised through Fla yesterday at 90+ with a trail of cars behind me including SUV's. 100 is passe. Got 30mpg with the A/C on.
Vocus...Paintwork kills value. That's why my "silver car" was $4500 and her "black car" was only $11,000. Carmax gave you what they thought your car was worth. Since the prices are no haggle it serves no purpose to lowball someone and kill a deal that may be working on the floor. The buyers only place a figure on your trade, they have nothing to do with the sales floor.
And what that VW dealer did to you on your Jetta should never be mentioned. There are laws in some states against that.
170hp is very little power from a 2 liter. I never had a problem with the boost on my MR2. It was a 2 liter 200 hp engine. Bulletproof til over 100K when I sold it for my Vigor. WRX is a 2 liter 225hp, the Lancer's rumored to have 260hp from it's 2.0, SVT 170hp normally aspirated 2.0., next years SI is rumored to have 200hp 2.0 from the Type-S RSX.
exactly my point....u need a touring car....one that does not have double wishbones...rear axle is fine....one with a big v-6, inline 6 or V-8..
up here in NJ, speed limit is 65mph.."strictly enforced"...and the pro is more than enough for the competition to pass at highway speed(65-70mph)
Which curry? There's Indian curry (which is really a plural, as there are many), Thai curries, Malaysian curries, even japanese curries.
They just get nasty when they are around too long (too long is 2 weeks or more).
just don't get tumeric on the upholstery.
And the thing is, Carmax will give one $5000 for their car, take it in and put new tires on it and detail it some, and turn around and price it for $7500. That's too high, I think. Their one-pricing sucks, because you can more than likely go somewhere else and get a better value in buying a car. Their used car prices run very high, but their new car prices aren't that bad actually.
And you are right, 100 is nothing on the road. It in in an economy car though, like the Protege/Civic/Corolla. My Protege did not feel substantial at 100mph to me (engine was buzzy, and it felt a little light). On the other hand, my VW will do 120mph all day and it feels like a vault. But VWs are German made and also made to run the Autobahn at 120+mph too. That's the difference, I think.
I lived in NYC for a year (Upper West Side), and get back there often to visit friends. I LOVE New York. Um, but I wouldn't want to have to drive the PROTEGE around Manhattan
http://www.teamfocaljet.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000043
Thought you guys would like to know. Sounds interesting.
So, do you agree with me that bigger wheels and stiffer calibration (something that GM likes to do in order to cure a crappy suspension) does not necessarily make a well thought out suspension?
Jetta IS an economy car with a twist axle rear suspension. Not my cup of tea. They get down the highway great though. Base Jetta at 115 hp and not economy car??? Ganja man.
Yup they gave you more in trade and they are getting it back every month, not to mention a balloon payment in the end. That's where you took it. I was lurking through the period when you first got your Jetta. There is no one that can say you got the better end of that deal.
Blew through NJ at 80 on the way to Boston a couple years ago. There is no speed limit where there are no cops. Didn't see any.
However, reading through this info makes me a little worried. There are a lot of references to cutting costs. Cutting corners and cutting costs is a Ford dictum and total corporate culture. It's a large part of the reason they make garbage automobiles. I have no issue with costs being reduced because of technological advancements provided the engines are smoother, more efficient and certainly more durable and reliable. The "corporate" tones of this article just scare me a little and I read tons of stuff like this as part of my everyday job. I always look for the extended "hidden" meanings.
I guess I'm just extremely pessimistic about the partnership or controlling interest of Ford. Ultimately, Ford owns the purse strings and sets the budgets. I just hope that in the long run Mazda is not sacrificing quality and reliability in the name of cost.
I know I'm in a bit of a "crusty" mood today....maybe that's it...
browntrout1 Is a blow off valve the same as a pop off valve (manifold pressure limiter)?
gandalf17 Mazda/Ford purse strings. I don't like it. I feel your pain.
Yes, I like the Cosworth involvement, but keep in mind that using the name alone is part marketing BS in and of itself. How much true Cosworth design/involvement truly is there? We'll never really know. I do know that we won't get patented F1 technology as the marketing people threw at you in that press release. Another bad example of marketing BS is the Daewoo Leganza advertising that it was "inspired" by Italdesign on the exterior and Porsche and Ferrari did all the "inspired" tuning of mechanicals. Gimme a break....oh yah, and the MPV has the soul of a sports car...:)
Sorry, told ya i was crusty today.
In best Clinton voice "I feel your pain"
Unfortunately, this is not an ideal world...and since I'm a pessimist by nature, I am far more inclined to believe Ford would just keep the current benchmark prices and reap more profits as the direct result of any lowered cost.
My biggest worry is that the entire Mazda line-up will essentially become a "re-badged" Ford product. Why? Because in the long run, this would greatly cut production costs. To date, this has not happened to the Protege, Miata or Millenia. One only needs to look at the 626, Tribute and Mazda pick-up's to see what true Ford involvement has done to each of those vehicles. They are all essentially Ford "re-badge's" of a comparable Ford product and are built Ford Tough, where Quality is job number one. They are also the least reliable of all of the Mazda line-up and pretty much stand for (F)irst (O)n (R)ecall (D)ay.
Mazda is often placed behind Toyota and Honda in reliability of Japanese manufacturers and occasionally, even behind Nissan. The reason? All of the surveys and data include the Ford manufactured automobiles. I'd be willing to bet ya a pretty penny that if you looked only at the reliability of the Japanese, Mazda manufactured vehicles, the reliability is at least equal to Toyota and Honda. This is certainly the case on the Protege which has surpassed the reliability of the Civic and is at least equal to the Corolla.
Anyway, i guess what I'm trying to say is that Ford better not screw up a darn good thing. I tend to think they'll find a way though. They always do....
And where is my coat?
Out in the PROTEGE
Glad my little image gave you a laugh! Should be firestones though. Made myself laugh when I thought of it.
I know your not attacking me. Glad the mood is a little better in here since the last time I posted.
By the way, Ford/Cosworth is pretty decent in Europe. Although, there aren't a great deal of affordable and decent quality vehicles in Europe to begin with anyway. Please don't say Puegot or Renault to me....ugggghhhhhh. The next step up are the VW's, BMW's, Saab's etc and they are expensive. My wife's Dad did a lot of rallying for Ford and used to work for them a few years back on the rally circuit as a director before taking over a management position at Silverstone.
By the way, for what it's worth, I'm not entirely sure why you were attacked like that the last time you posted in here. I didn't think you said anything wrong. After all, the Protege is not perfect. No car is........well, except maybe the BMW M5 and the EVOL VII.
seminole_kev you may be hearing about "naming" your feel the pain remark. I got called on the carpet for it shortly after 911.
Was the 2.5L in your Contour the 6 cylinder? If it was the 4cyl. that engine was notoriously unrefined, under powered and problematic in the Contour's. If it was the 6cyl. than that was apparently a very good engine, although i never drove one and can't really comment. I did however drive the 4cyl. many moons ago.
We began by shopping for a Honda Certified 1998-2000 Civic EX with less than 45k miles. We soon discovered that new cars weren't much more expensive, so we drove the 2002 Protégé LX, 2002 Civic EX and 2003 Corolla S (did not find the LE model). We didn't like the looks of the Sentra or Focus (which has questionable reliability.) IMO, Hyundai still needs another 2-4 years in the market, then will be worth serious consideration.
We drove the Civic EX rather than the less expenseive LX because of its more powerful motor, ABS and sunroof. Like the Civic LX, the stock EX has steel wheels and plastic hubcaps. The drive-off price on the Civic EX was about $2500 more than the Protégé (w/ rebate) even if sold at invoice with no doc fee or dealer add-ons. If the Civic EX had alloy wheels and were only $1500 more, we might have bought it -- mainly because it has ABS and a better collision rating. It seems the best made car in this class, and feels a tad more refined and substantial than the Protégé. We didn't think it drove or handled as well as the Protégé, nor were the seats as comfortable. In Atlanta, Civics are everywhere. Understandably, my daughter wanted something different, but comparable in quality. Also, Civics are more likely to be stolen than other small cars. FYI, the Honda dealer had listed an overpriced pin stripe, mud flap and wax job package, plus was trying to charge extra for the Auto transmission which is clearly included in the $18,250 MSRP. When I pointed that out, he quickly agreed it was a mistake. (All the other EXs I saw on the lot had this "mistake", too!)
Before seeing the 2003 Corolla, we read a glowing review saying the quality standard is similar to the first generation Lexus. So, we were expecting a very well-made car. Instead, the US-built Corollas we saw had obvious defects including misaligned panels, paint globs on edges, crudely applied wheel-well damping material, etc.. The model S "aero" parts were very flimsy. The molding strip below the doors was nearly ½" too long and was easy to pull away from the body. The front passenger wheel well intrudes into the right foot area. The car is noisy and shifts abruptly. The paint choices are bland, and as far as I know, no metallic paint is offered. Here in Atlanta, we have to deal with the infamous SE Toyota distributor (The rest of the US is distributed by Toyota). This means rip-offs like almost $600 for an "advertising fee" and a $619 pin stripe and wax job! Even without these insults, the price was way too high for the car offered. We did like the look of the S model Corolla, but not the details. The salesman did not mention the $1000 customer rebate.
The 2002 Protégé LX handles well, is reasonably quiet for its class, and has a responsive motor with good torque. The metallic paint is attractive. The auto tranny is smooth and doesn't change gears excessively. My daughter is very pleased, and so am I.
Let me put the value of this car in perspective. Back in 1991, I almost bought a Protégé, but wound up getting an Infiniti G20 w/ manual. (The G20 served me well for 10 years!) The drive-out price for a loaded 1991 Protégé was around $13,500. It didn't have the safety, capability, features and refinement of the 2002 model. It wasn't as well made as today's Protégé. For its class, it was probably the best value then, as it is today.
We would have preferred the Protégé LX with the ABS/side airbag package, but couldn't find a Silver one with Auto. In fact, for the entire Atlanta area, I only saw one Protégé with ABS -- a black ES with manual tranny.
My daughter left the car at home until she gets back from school at the end of May. (No where to put it at school for now, plus she had a return plane ticket.) This means I get to drive it some over the next two months. This will be fun! Peace.
Then look for every possible loophole in the small print. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PRE-JUDGE WHETHER THE BACKING BEHIND YOUR CONTRACT WILL ACTUALLY BE THERE WHEN YOU NEED IT. Most consumer groups strongly recommend against extended warranties (unless a single major loss might put you into dire financial stress).
Congrats to our new PRO owners! Like you, I shopped first for the usual suspect (Civic), and after being quoted absurd prices and shown the way Honda treats their customers as I walked in the showroom (wonder what would happen if I has a warranty claim), I passed by a Mazda dealer just for the sake of it, even though I didn't want to. Drove a black ES with GT package and was hooked on it. And went to drive it again. And again.
Now I sit and pitty those that never drove one. I feel you were ripped-off of FUN, LOOKS and RELIABILITY if starting 2001, you didn't buy a PRO. Of course this isn't to say other cars are bad, but they certainly don't have the ZOOMness of the PRO.
Dinu
BTW, I have 26.400kms so far since July 15ish 2001.
Dinu
Dinu
Dinu
Actually, I'm pretty good about making sure the windows are up when I park at work...kind of a high-crime area.
Dinu
Seminole_kev: It was Lemko talking about his girlfriend's Impala. All sorts of comments then flew about what she was like...nuff said.
Civics are everywhere, except for the SI of course
vocus: I hope you aren't sayingthat you got a good deal with a straight face. Balloon payments are NEVER a good choice. We did the math one time and I think it ended up that you would be paying more than $30,000 for that Jetta. And that's not even considering all of the extra depreciation, repairs, and maintenance that will result from all of the miles you put on the car. Carmax may have only offered you $9500 but they also don't participate in ballon contracts. Carmax is very fair when it comes to used cars and that's why alot of dealers send their customers to us. And the Protege isn't exactly a hot commodity to Carmax. They can buy them all day long at auctions.
BTW: We had our SI up to 120 on the way back from Florida and it was locked on. Felt just like it did at 80 except, like I've said before, the trees were just going by faster.
Of course CarMax prices are higher, you should see the building they put up here, it's big enough to house the Good Year blimp. When it was under construction I thought it was going to be an annex to the Civic Center. They have to pay for it somehow. Their parking lot is twice the size of the new car dealers on the boulevard.
I've enjoyed your commentary...now, let's get back to talking about Protegés. Glad you are happy with your purchases, we are, too.
fowler3
fowler3
ZZ: 120mph? That's pretty fast. Floored at 120 ALL the way? I hope you really take care of that engine. Oh, I forgot, you don't care since you'll unload it when it gives you one bit of trouble. Reason #1 not to buy pilaf: it's been used and abused BIG time.
Dinu
In my eyes, their value is lower than a regular EX/Dx Civic (to use this example), since it was raced, RPMed to the max and driven with little or no care.
What do the rest think?
Do you think an SI is a better overall car than an EX or DX from a reliability pt of view?
Dinu