Mazda Protegé

jstandefer · May 2002

LOL. I was visiting my family for Mother's Day last weekend, and my father commented that my Protege sounded like a diesel when I started it in the morning.

It wasn't the engine rattle described above, but rather, the valve clatter on cold starts. The valve clatter started around 20,000 miles and has gotten progessively noisier as the miles have increased (64,000 now).

I have experienced that engine rattle described above from time to time. Of course, I have the 1999 1.8L, so it is not the VTCS. I believe the F-series engine (1.8L & 2.0L) has a serious rattle problem from an abnormal vibration. The 2.0L seems to do it while the VTCS is fully closed. Mine does it just above idle, while the ECU holds revs for a few seconds before coming down to idle. It is annoying, but I seriously doubt it will cause a problem.

seminole_kev · May 2002

it depends if they considerate within operating limits. Is any damage resulting from it, other than being annoying? Maybe if there was an adjustment they could issue....and I hesitate saying the word...a TSB.

maltb · May 2002

maltb · May 2002

have you had your valves adjusted? Those motors use directly actuated (no rocker) solid lifters with adjustment shims, I think. They should be good for at least 100k unless you have a certain tendency to hit redline on a daily basis

.

Anyway, I'd have your clearances checked, it sounds kinda strange.

seminole_kev · May 2002

thanks for being a sport ;-)

protege_fan · May 2002

I agree..there should be a TSB. But since Mazda deems this to be within operating specs, I guess there is no need for a TSB in their opinion.

seminole_kev · May 2002

yeah, that's what it seems like. I haven't been following this deal probably as well as you guys have, so correct me if I'm wrong, but no one's had any mechanical problems result from this noise issue have they? I haven't seen anything like an engine failure related to this, but again, I haven't been following it tightly.

sarahnbua · May 2002

I've got a 2002 Protege LX automatic, 2.0L with moonroof etc, and this morning on my way to work I noticed a couple of things. Well, one of them I've noticed off and on for a bit, but I can't quite pin it down. I'm a huge fan of cruise control -- I haven't gotten a speeding ticket yet, so I must be doing something right, lol -- and I use the cruise a lot even on surface streets and such, as long as it's not like stop and go traffic. Well, this morning I was going along at about 55mph, and there was a red light, so I hit cancel, and the light turned green. Well, there wasn't much time in between to slow down, so I hit resume again, and the cruise picked up normally to bring it back up the little bit . . . and then when it hit 55, it did a funny little . . . well, I don't even know how to explain it. It felt almost like I had put my foot on the brakes for a second or something -- it was like the cruise control forgot to disengage the acceleration or whatever (forgive my lack of technical terms and stuff here) and so it did it too quickly so it wouldn't go too far past the set speed. Does that make any sense? I've also noticed on a couple occasions that the set speed seemed to drop a couple mph between the cancel and resume. It's not a consistent thing though, and it might just be my imagination.

The other thing was just a little something I noticed . . . I went to use my sun visor for the first time today (I've only had the car for like a month, and it's been cloudy most days). I'm pretty tall, but I've had no problem with head room in my Protege, especially with the moonroof. But when I went to move the visor to the side . . . first the moonroof control/map lights console thingy got in the way, and then my head got in the way! So I'm sitting there trying to drive in rush hour traffic, and wrestling with my sun visor . . . it was not a pretty sight.

And for the guy that was looking at the $20,000 Protege . . . IMHO, that's way too much. I got mine for $100 over invoice -- minus $1500 in rebates. Of course it could just be that I happened to get a really good deal, but I think $20k is way too high.

the_big_h · May 2002

so you're saying the cruise seemed to 'brake' a little to slow the car back down to 55 when you hit resume? That sounds reasonable, it being a cruise control and everything.

and cruise control is not the most precise equipment in the world, so a variance of couple mph is more than acceptable IMO.

as for the visor, maybe you could try lowering the seats a little more to gain some additional headroom? I have mine almost all the way to the bottom and have tons of headroom that I'll never use

mazdafun · May 2002

On MazdaUSA's site. Go under the Protege or P5. I think it's under specifications and then suspension. A little (and I mean little) graphic pops up with the lower lateral links in blue and another set of links in red. These do the pulling to work the toe-in/toe-out. I browsed through some Mazda US patents on suspension (and they have several under 4-wheel steering and steering mechanisms for the rear wheels), but I didn't find any that match the current TTL set-up.

seminole_kev · May 2002

Thanks a bunch. I didn't mean for you to actively search for the information. Just if you ran across it one day ;-)

Thanks again for the help. I'll have to take a look.

chicagopro · May 2002

I'm only 5'3", and I definitely had to figure out how to flip the visor to the side without wacking myself in the face...something I have to do rather quickly each morning on my commute to work, when the southbound highway makes a sudden jog to the east.

Now I'm able to do it successfully without even thinking about it, so I can't tell you what my system is.

But I'm sure you'll get the hang of it.

*edit*
Okay, just remembered my system:

Visor in down position.

Flip up, move to side and flip down once it gets past my big head.

Practice makes perfect.

*second edit*

Okay, realized that doesn't make any sense. If I'm headed south in the morning, then my visor is already at the side. When I turn and face the sun, I flip up, move it to the front, and flip it back down again. I do the previously-mentioned manuever when the road jogs back south again.

And I'm sure y'all enjoyed reading every excruciating detail of my morning commute and my visor.

dermen · May 2002

Thanks for the replies. I wasn't planning on paying any where near $20,000. MSRP is around $18,000 and then they have an additional markup of $2000. I live in Alaska and most manufacturers only have one dealership. The Honda dealership charges way over msrp and people pay it. My friend just bought a civic LX for $1000 over MSRP. Anyway my plan was to go back and hope they still had the ES and tell them I would buy it for $15,500. I just thought that maybe i missed the rebate.

About the recent graduate rebate is that high school or college? I am only 18 and graduated high school last year.

protege_fan · May 2002

I believe the grad-rebate is for post-secondary education only. Double check on the www.mazdausa.com website. It outlines the requirements.

nfprofan · May 2002

Which forum did you copy that text from regarding the 2.0L Engine Noise? I think I have the same problem and would like a support group.

protege_fan · May 2002

www.protegeclub.com

mazdafun · May 2002

...that's probably more than I'd like to know.

chicagopro · May 2002

LOL...yeah, I'm a goof. No doubt about it.

vocus · May 2002

The first time I drove my 1999 DX in the sun, I spun the visor to the side and knocked my glasses right off! I was so mad, I almost had an accident. I learned how to flip the visor without doing that again though.

vocus · May 2002

What you experienced is the cruise control catching up to the speed and stopping its acceleration. It's totally normal, used to happen in both my 99 DX and my 01 ES.

meinrad · May 2002

LoL, but are sure you're heading south or east or west or north? Driving in Chicago is such a pain, you're driving east but the sign says west, you change roads and then you're heading nwortheastouth. Someone tells you to take the Eisenhower, then you get out on the road and there is no sign that says that anywhere. And you better carry change, every damn road is a toll road.

rbrooks3 · May 2002

Mazda called back and said that on both my 02 Pro and my wife's 00 MPV the car should not be driven and be allowed to sit overnight after the windshield is replaced. They said it had to do with the bonding process used and the structural integrity of the windshield could be compromised.

chicagopro · May 2002

aaaggghhh...wish you hadn't even told me that...because of course that's NOT what happened when the dealer replaced my windshield.

I'm going to have to think about this....

vocus · May 2002

I think personally that's a load of crap. I had the windshield replaced in my 1999 DX, like I had said before. They came to my job and replaced it, and I was told not to drive the car for an hour until the bonding agent dried or whatever.

rbrooks3 · May 2002

The final word from Mazda to me on this is that it happens on all 2002 Proteges. They based this on the fact that my dealer's service manager took a 2002 Pro out, drove at a sufficient speed, shifted to neutral, turned on the cruise system and hit "set". The engine shot to redline. So, they consider this normal.

I once again explained that I never asked whether it was "normal" in the sense that the 2002 Proteges do this. My question was is this "normal" in the sense of being something Mazda wanted to happen and more importantly, something that they want to continue after having it brought to their attention.

They have no answer to this except to say that if they thought it was a problem they'd fix it. Personally, I'm not convinced. They knew there was a significant hard starting problem on the 00 MPV's v6 and they introduced it to market anyway while working on what they termed a "countermeasure". Of course that did not stop the dealer from first telling me there was no problem and using the same "they all do it" explanation. I don't know if this problem pre-dated the 00 MPV model or not. The 00 is the only personal experience I've had with it.

So, be warned 5 speed owners of 2 situations:
1) if you use your cruise control and then leave the "Main" switch on, if you accidentally hit the "set" or "resume" switch the engine will shoot to redline and stay there until you do something to disengage the system.

2) if you have the "Main" switch on for the cruise control (some people always leave it on) and accidentally hit the "set" button, the engine will once again shoot to redline and stay there until you do something to disengage the system.

If the 02 models used the stalk mounted cruise controls I think this becomes a much more minor risk. But, since the 02 and later cars will apparently use the buttons mounted between the steering wheel rim and hub, hitting the "set" or "resume" switch accidentally is a much larger risk.

I intend to send a letter to Mazda about this, but I won't hold my breath waiting for a response.

rbrooks3 · May 2002

I'm just reporting on what Mazda said. I never would have even thought it was an issue until one of our property damage guys mentioned it to all of our employees in a meeting. It probably is one of those issues that may ultimately never cause a problem for 99 out of 100 replaced windshields. But, that's little consolation if you are that one guy. There's a correct way of doing things and many times short cuts are taken because the risk is small. That's fine, as long as the consumer is the one making the choice to take the risk and not someone else deciding for me.

Even though it may not matter, I'll have the mobile company come to the house so I can leave the cars in the garage overnight.

vocus · May 2002

The cruise should not set when the car's in neutral anyway. I wouldn't think it would. I would write to NHTSA about it as well. Maybe they will do a recall on it or something. It's unsafe I think.

vocus · May 2002

Like I said, I drove the car an hour after they put in the windshield. That was in April 1999, and the car had like 15K miles on it. I kept the car until 38K miles in February 2001, and the windshield never leaked or anything. I took it through car washes a couple times, washed it by hand all the time, and drove in rain all the time as well.

vocus · May 2002

The windshield cracked in my 2001 Protege as well. I didn't get it replaced though, I traded the car in on the Jetta instead. Maybe the windshield thing has something to do with the structure or something in the 2001+s, because they did make the front end stronger or something, didn't they? Just a thought...

mdaffron · May 2002

Are you sure it's racing to the redline when you hit "set?" Why would hitting "set" cause the engine to do anything at all? Hitting "set" while the car's in gear doesn't make the car accelerate; why should it do it when the car's out of gear?

I thought the issue was hitting "reset" in neutral after a speed had been set, causing the engine to try to accelerate up to that speed even though the tranny was out of gear.

Meade

rbrooks3 · May 2002

I've done the same thing myself on every car I've owned that needed a windshield replaced. Those mobile companies are very convenient. But, now that I know what is correct and what's not, it's nothing more than a matter of personal choice on what to do the next time. Like I said, the risk may be small, but it's still good to know there is a risk.

rbrooks3 · May 2002

Hitting "set" when the system is on makes the system try to maintain the speed you just set. Since you're in neutral the car just keeps trying to accellerate which it can't becuase you are in netural.

Maybe I should have just said this: On the 2002 Protege, the cruise control system does not recognize if the car is in neutral. Granted no one will engage the system in neutral on purpose, but the placem,ent of those buttons certainly makes it a risk to do it accidentally.

mdaffron · May 2002

Thanks for the explanation. I hadn't thought of it that way! But still, who would be in neutral while moving? The owner's manual specifically states not to do that. The only time I'm in neutral is when I'm stopped, and hitting "set" then does nothing.

I think this goes under the category of people trying to make their car do something it's not supposed to do. In the same theme, I can drive around all the time in first gear and burn up my transmission -- the car will do nothing to protect me from my own stupidity there. Also, there's no lock to ensure I don't suddenly pull hard on my parking brake while I'm on the highway -- no automatic lockout there. I'll bet there's also nothing to keep me from getting up to 25 in reverse and engaging my cruise control.

Guys, there are some things that are just common sense. Not using the cruise control while you're in neutral is one of them -- just like not flooring the accelerator while you're in neutral. Getting NHTSA involved reminds me of that person who sued McDonalds when they spilled hot coffee on themselves.

Sorry, that's my opinion. I await the tidal wave of responses that assuredly will come.

Meade the Outspoken

mdaffron · May 2002

Anyone gettin' tired of my daily reminders yet?

;-)

Meade

vocus · May 2002

I guess accidents can happen though. I don't drive a stick, so I would never be in neutral when moving anyway. I didn't think you did that in a stick shift car either, but I don't know since I don't know to drive one.

vocus · May 2002

I am trying to make 3 dishes for 2 different gatherings on the same Saturday! I am starting to feel like Betty Crocker or something.

I am going to probably bake a cake tonight for a thing at work tomorrow. That's a whole different thing. I then have the MAPP, which I need to make the crab dip for (hopefully, I can find crab meat). Then I need to make chicken wings and a vegetable plate for another party I am attending on Saturday evening. I have no time for this stuff. It's a mess to be popular sometimes.

All this while planning my trip to Chicago as well (leaving next Wednesday). Good God, what a mess!

newcar31 · May 2002

Right on Meade!

mdaffron · May 2002

Well you are to be commended. Consider opening a catering business.

I may not be busy preparing stuff in the kitchen, but let me show you just what I've done to prepare for MAPP III:

Two months ago: $73.15 on my AmEx card for the shelter

Yesterday: $67 at Costco for 40 hamburgers, four pounds of hot dogs, five pounds of potato salad, bottles of ketchup, mustard and relish and two bags of charcoal.

Last night: Put the Mazda Motorsports banners in the trunk, along with the charcoal, two coolers and a plastic tub containing my grill utensils, can opener, bottle opener, tablecloth clips, grill lighter and several other odds & ends.

Tonight: Putting the Edmunds T-shirts in the car and giving a final wash to both cars. (Of course, it's supposed to rain here tomorrow night. Oh well, just like MAPP I. Same exact forecast. We can only hope it turns out in the sunny manner MAPP I did!)

Tomorrow: Picking up Dale at the airport. Picking up the three dozen Virginia ham biscuits I've ordered (at $9.95 a dozen). Going out to dinner with Dale!

Saturday: ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM!!!!!!

(I'm not trying to rub anything in by quoting prices. This is money well spent. Just showing Paul my dedication to this.)

This is gonna be great, guys and gals!

Meade

mdaffron · May 2002

Honestly, I really didn't expect anyone to be on my (highly opinionated) side!

Meade

dagpotter · May 2002

Where is the MAPP? Is it in the DC area?

chikoo · May 2002

that on the AT, if you are crusing at 55 with gear in 'D', and you partner accidently hits the gear lever, it can knock it into the 'N' (neutral) position.

Guess what happens to the engine?

u got it....
It redlines!!!

so is this normal?

vocus · May 2002

Dang, you are making me hungry with all that food!

I remember those Virginia ham biscuits from last year, they were pretty good.

I hope the forecast does turn out like MAPP I did. It was beautiful up in the mountains. I saw about the rain in the weather, and thought instantly about when we went for MAPP I.

mdaffron · May 2002

It's at Shenandoah River State Park, just south of Front Royal. We'd love to have you. Please go over to the Yahoo group mazdaprotege and read the homepage greeting for all the details. (By the way, there's a pic from MAPP I on the homepage now -- it was held at the same location as this Saturday's MAPP III -- check out the zoomabilities!)

Here's the link to the Yahoo group Matthew. If for some reason you can't get in, go to the second link listed and check out Wil's mirrored information.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mazdaprotege

http://mazdaprotege.net/mapp3info.htm

Hope you can make it!

Meade

Yahoo group moderator & MAPP III coordinator

mdaffron · May 2002

But there IS a lockout so you can't shift from neutral into reverse.

I remember a trip we were taking in my dad's 1972 Volvo -- my mom was in the passenger seat and she leaned down to get something off the floor in front of her, and her elbow hit the shifter -- putting the car in FIRST GEAR at 60 mph! Man, you shoulda heard that engine!

(Didn't damage it, fortunately!)

Meade

rbrooks3 · May 2002

You said, "The only time I'm in neutral is when I'm stopped, and hitting "set" then does nothing."

The problem is, if you had used the system and hit "resume" while at that light, it would go to redline.

You are 100% correct that none of this should happen intentionally. I just think that due to the risk of hitting the buttons accidentally, the system should know it's in neutral.

mdaffron · May 2002

The cruise control won't operate on my car below 25 mph.

Meade

protege_fan · May 2002

I think you should try it today Meade. Some people here have tried it and all have said that the engine goes to redline.

dagpotter · May 2002

I will really try, but I have little league all day. The good thing is I live less then an hour away near Manassas, VA.

meinrad · May 2002

"Tomorrow: Picking up Dale at the airport...."

Make sure you lift with your legs!

shrique · May 2002

Wish I could go but it's just to far away and I don't have the free cash for a flight. Anyway I would want my car there if I could go anyway. Oh well.

I'm in Minneapolis if anyone wondered.

Mazda Protegé

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