Mazda Protegé

mazdafun · June 2002

Go with it. Great deal. Details, give us details.

geckoph · June 2002

No trade, car has 23 miles. Red is the only color available at this dealer in Minneapolis. Rebate is obviously going to the dealer. Another dealer told me to buyit at that price as he said they are losing several hundres and he won't touch it.

vocus · June 2002

That red color (Millenium Red) is usually very hard to come by, and there are not that many Proteges on the streets in that color because of that.

I definitely say to go for it.

dsm6 · June 2002

So the dealer isn't losing that much. Besides, we consumers need to get a good deal every once in a while too. ;-)

vocus · June 2002

One of the reasons that the price might be so low is that the car has sat on the dealer's lot for awhile, and now he's losing money on it and needs to move it. I find it hard to believe considering the color of the car though, which is pretty popular and also pretty hard to find.

pat · June 2002

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pat · June 2002

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chicagopro · June 2002

NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo...............

(Can we tell who's set in her ways?)

But thanks for the warning

geckoph · June 2002

Hi Guys,

I picked up the car tonight. All was as promised. I did all the negotiation via e-mail and only spent about 30 minutes at the dealer. Looking forward to learning more about this car.

I live in Minnesota and plan to keep the car about 10 years. Any opinions out there on rustproofing?

protege_fan · June 2002

IMO,it's a waste of money. Typically, they tell you they spraying your car with some sort of chemical and you will NEVER have to wax again. That's total BS. Whatever they spray on will deteriorate in a few months, the same as wax will.

Also, if they try to tell you it has TEFLON in it, don't get it. To bond to the surface, teflon has to be applied to a surface at extrememly high temperatures. As one person put it, unless your car is a raging inferno of flames, forget about teflon.

protege_fan · June 2002

Congrats on the purchase geckoph! Welcome to the forum!

Happy zoom zooming!!

geckoph · June 2002

My only issue with the car is that the steering wheel feels cheap. Hard Plastic. I'm used to the leather wheel in my miata. Has anyone tried the wheelskins?

What is the manual tranny filled with? I'd like to replace it with synthetic.

Finally, any suggestions for snow tire rims and tires? I'd like to got to a taller skinnier tire.

Sorry for all the questions.

Pete

protege_fan · June 2002

I like the steering wheel...but I've never had leather, so I can't compare it.

I dunno what's stock in the manual tranny, but I am definitely going to switch to Red Line MTF. I've read a lot of material that says the shifts will be much better, especially in cold weather.

Snow tires: I didn't get them last year, but definitely will this year. I think I'm going to go with P185/65 R15. I think it will be the Michelin Arctic Alpins or the Canadian Tire versions (Nordic Trac) which are also made by Michelin, but $40/tire cheaper.

To see the effect that changing your tires have, goto http://www.paspeedo.com/calculator.htm

protegextwo · June 2002

Boxes, Size Small

Chrysler PT Cruiser

Ford Focus ZX5

Pontiac Vibe

Mazda Protegé5

Suzuki Aerio SX

Toyota Matrix XRS

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2002/june/200206_comparo_boxes.xml?&page=1

mdaffron · June 2002

It's a Larry sighting.

And of course the Mazda wins. Zoom zoom. What's your point?

;-)

Meade

offham · June 2002

Close to above and dealer offering $2000 off sticker plus the $1500. Options are Cassette, Moon Roof, Alloy Wheels, Locking Hub Nuts, Mats and believe ABS/Side Air Bags.

As I am normally on the van site, this looks to me a reasonable deal. Any comments

mazdafun · June 2002

IMO they look and feel cheap. Besides, unless you really tighten them down (and stretch the leather), they slip a little.

If you want a leather-covered steering wheel, install a factory-skinned one. The one from the P5 and MP3 looks and feels really nice. Of course, I think the standard plastic one feels really nice too (nice size and "give", and nicely shaped for easy handling). I think the 3-spoke one is easier to handle than the 4-spoke one I have though.

protegextwo · June 2002

Just info.....

-love train

rbrooks3 · June 2002

Car and Driver places us at the top, eh? Now all of us owners of "regular" Pros can say in unison, "When will the turbo kit be available?"

My only gripe with the Pro (OK, two of them, but only one can be fixed): more output would be great (of course this raises the price and would make the Pro less of the fun bargain that it is) and make it rear-wheel drive.

Mazda will certainly not make the car rwd. As I've gotten more used to the car, the wish for more hp is getting stronger. It would be the only reason I would consider not keeping the car. There are no acceptable rwd cars in its price range so that's over with. I can't justify the extra cost of the MP3 for what you get. I suppose I'd consider the Mazdaspeed, but I think there will be some price gouging to the point of making the car less of a bargain. The best bet would be to see what the price on the turbo kit will be for us 2.0 owners. I'm waiting. I wish Mazda would give us some idea of when the package will be available.

That's the problem with the Pro. It's what makes it fun to own and fall a bit short at the same time. The car handles better than it goes. It craves more hp. But, if you look at the Car and Driver comparison, it's also what makes the car come out #1. Overall, it's a better car than the rest even if underpowered in comparison. So, we all want to address that issue.

But, take heart, we are in great company. This gripe of a great handling car in search of more hp is what has been said for years about the Porsche 944 (witness the 944turbo and supercharger kits), Madza Miata (witness v8 conversions, turbo and supercharger kits)and Toyota MR2 (witness turbo model and some supercharger kits).

All of the above involve more $ to make the stock "underpowered" model faster. Always comes down to speed costing more money. Of course, once you get the added hp, 6 months later you want more. In the end, a well balanced handling car may be the best overall goal. Which explains why the Pro tops the list in yet another comparison. So, even if we don't add more hp, we can rest happily knowing we have the best platform to start with. Driving my friend's new SL2 over the weekend remided me of that big time!

mdaffron · June 2002

In taking a 2000 Protege and a 2002 Protege to the track and testing them against each other. I keep hearing people complain about the 2.0 lacking in acceleration and top end power; the 1.8 (actually 1,849cc) in my 2000 ES seems to rev happily all the way up to the redline. (Doesn't hurt that I have a 5-speed too.) Has anyone compared the two engines to see if the 2.0 was really a good move performance-wise?

Meade

P.S. My 2000 ES just passed 38,000 trouble-free miles. Had an oil change and my state inspection last Thursday and everything passed; brakes are fine too. Only expense I've had to date is swapping out the pieceacrap 195/55-15 Bridgestone Poortenzas for 205/50-15 Dunlop SP Sport A2s 5,000 miles ago. My initial reaction stands: Awesome tires!

newcar31 · June 2002

Which Mazda dealer did you get that deal at? Morries? Walser? My brother is looking at cars now and he wants a Civic EX coupe because he doesn't want to get the same car as me. I simply don't understand that. For what he is into, the Civic is clearly an inferior car, but he just can't have the same car as me. For more money than a Protege you get: Hubcabs, 185-15 tires, rear drum brakes, and the chance to see your car driving around 50 times a day. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

I put synthetic in my transmission as soon as I got my car because I knew it would be hard to shift in the winter with that thick of a fluid. I used Valvoline Synpower GL5. I also bought Dunlop Graspic 195/60/15s on steel wheels for about $400. I think the winter tires are a necessity here in MN.

newcar31 · June 2002

I haven't driven the 1.8L in the Protege, but from what I've heard, I'd rather have the 2.0L. I just came from a car that had lots of zing way up high on the tach and not much anywhere else. The 1.8L is just a de-stroked version of the 2.0L. By nature, the 1.8L is going to be the peakier engine. The 2.0L has around 100 lbs-ft of torque at around 2000 rpm and a very flat torque curve. Around town, the 2.0L feels just fine because it has power on tap almost all the time. You don't have to beat it to get it going. Having people in the car doesn't handicap the acceleration as bad either. I bought the car knowing full well the characteristics of the engine. I think it suits a small 4 door sedan quite well.

vocus · June 2002

The 2.0L engine is fine for someone who wants more power low down. The 1.8L isn't really lacking at low rpm, but you have to rev it up. The fun part is when you do rev it up, it doesn't sound like crap.

Meade: You have a 2000 and a 2002 Protege! Why don't you drive both and compare?

meinrad · June 2002

"P.S. My 2000 ES just passed 38,000 trouble-free miles."

Thats great. I am a few miles short of 5000 and am so happy to not have one complaint. Tire pressure was correct, no shakes, no shimmies, no rattles, no nothing. Not one initial quality problem. So if my car can continue this way, I won't have to beat Meade up since his devotion to the Protege is one reason I'm driving one.

newcar31 · June 2002

I don't think the 2.0L sounds like crap though. It sounds like a regular 4 cylinder....and neither the 1.8L, the 2.0L, or your 1.8T sound anywhere near as cool as my old Integra's VTEC motor. It sounded like one pissed off 4 cylinder. IMO, this is an area where Honda can't be beat. BTW, the 1.8T near redline isn't exactly harmonious either.

mdaffron · June 2002

Raymond -- You mean I, little ol' (ha) me, influenced your decision to zoom zoom? Well, let me tell you my friend, you're in good company! My first 1992 LX saved my life when my crappy Poortenzas hydroplaned -- 45 mph into the back of a Volvo station wagon; no airbags yet I walked out of it; my second 1992 LX was still zoomin' along with never one problem when I traded it at 83,000 miles; my 2000 ES is doin' just fine at 38,000 miles, and my wife's 2002 Protege5 is doing fine at 4,500 miles.

Paul: I'd love to drive my wife's Protege5. But so far she won't let me!!!

I think it has to do with the fact that I never taught her how to drive my 5-speed -- a little "backatcha." Oh well, it's fun being a passenger too -- and letting her have her fun. After all, I'm not missing much -- I have zoom-zoom capabilities too! No, what I'd really like to see is some numbers. 150cc isn't that big a difference, and people really shouldn't "[non-permissible content removed]-U-ME" there is one if they've never driven the 1.8. My car has no problem at all in around-town driving or acceleration. Maybe because I have the 5-speed, I dunno. But I do know that I test drove the automatic first, and then the 5-speed -- and there was a HUGE difference in zoom factor. You guys (and gals) driving automatics don't know what you're missing.

Meade

mdaffron · June 2002

You oughta test-drive a Protege5 before you buy that Jetta wagon.

Meade

vocus · June 2002

I know what a Protege5 drives like though. I had the 2001 ES model. I still like the Jetta bettah.

I am sure they are not going to mess up the car again though, so I probably don't have to worry about the Jetta wagon.

And I was thinking if they do take this car back, I don't know if I want another VW anyway. I like the car alot, better than anything I have driven, but it's too much drama to deal with.

newcar31 · June 2002

I don't need to "[non-permissible content removed]-UME" that there is a difference between the 1.8L and the 2.0L. I KNOW what the difference is. A simplified way of looking at the difference would be pointing out the 150cc difference in the displacement. There is more to it than that my friend. Because the 1.8L is a short-stroke version of the 2.0L, it will inherantly have a completely different power band. Read some stuff about over-square and under-square engine designs.

protege_fan · June 2002

#13566 of 13579 Mazda Protege Sedan LX by offham Jun 04, 2002 (05:03 am)
Close to above and dealer offering $2000 off sticker plus the $1500. Options are Cassette, Moon Roof, Alloy Wheels, Locking Hub Nuts, Mats and believe ABS/Side Air Bags.

As I am normally on the van site, this looks to me a reasonable deal. Any comments

rbrooks3 · June 2002

I'm closing on 6,000 and have had no problems since Mazda changed the wiring harness. Another 32k with no problems would be hapilly welcomed. I have the Dunlops on my car and they are good in wet and dry. We didn't get much sloppy stuff here on Long Island this past winter after I got the car so I can't comment there.

vocus · June 2002

I had a 2001 Protege with the Dunlops, and they were great in wet and dry weather. Alot better than what I hear about the Potenzas that came on earlier ES models.

What part of LI are you on? My good friend grew up there.

mdaffron · June 2002

I'm not talking about engine design. I'm talking about TESTING these cars at a TRACK. I don't care what shape my block is or how long my stroke is (LOL), I want to know what it comes down to in zero-to-60s, quarter miles, etc.

Meade

the_big_h · June 2002

uh huh, no comment...

mdaffron · June 2002

Just remember that my Dunlops ain't your Dunlops. Yours are better high-performance tires and are V-rated, I believe. My SP Sports are H-rated but they're designed for wet-weather traction and score much higher marks in that type of driving -- with a slightly lower score (but still impressive) in cornering. Much higher treadwear rating than the Poortenzas too (420 vs. 160, if I remember correctly). 50,000 mile treadlife warranty too.

Meade

mdaffron · June 2002

That's why I inserted "(LOL)" there, big guy.

Meade

newcar31 · June 2002

I don't think there is much difference in absolute performance (0-60, 1/4 mile) between the two engines. The 2001s have more power but they are heavier. The difference between the two is in the characterisics of their powerbands. We've already established that the 1.8L likes to rev and the 2.0L has it's available power down low. IMO, I like the 2.0L better because it's less labored by having passengers in the car and using accesories such as A/C. I don't need to drive the 1.8L to know this. The 2.0L may not have that much more HP, but it has a significant advantage in torque AND that torque comes sooner in the RPM band.

mdaffron · June 2002

Oh well.

Meade

newcar31 · June 2002

That's just the way it is. Look at all of the high-rpm screamer engines. They have impressive hp numbers and torque peaks WAY up high. Then take a look at the engines that have low-down torque and flat torque curves. They usually run out of power well before redline....but then you shift and are right back in the power band. I've owned two cars that are on opposite ends of this spectrum. My 5.0L mustang felt like it could pull tree stumps out of the ground at 1000 rpm, but ran out of juice just before 5000 rpms. My Integra didn't even start to party until 5000 rpms and was completely dead before that. I like both styles for different reasons.

maltb · June 2002

And I was thinking if they do take this car back, I don't know if I want another VW anyway. I like the car alot, better than anything I have driven, but it's too much drama to deal with.

It seems that you aren't in a good position to have your car bought back by VW. At one year old and an upside down loan, you'll be paying them to take it off your hands. I hope you have some reserves or a very creative finance guy.

rbrooks3 · June 2002

I live in Stony Brook which is in Suffolk County but work in Jericho which is in Nassau County. A nice 60 miles of Zoom zoom each day.

mazdafun · June 2002

I spent a few years in Dix Hills, LI. You pass by my old high-school stomping grounds every day.

Pro-related comment: it sure is amusing hearing how people wish for more power from their 1.8 and 2.0L engines when I have loads of fun with my 1.6L engine. Must be a blast with the 1.8 or 2.0.

vocus · June 2002

Unless you are going to buy me a new car in a year, then I think I will be keeping the Jetta, but thank you for your opinion anyway.

vocus · June 2002

My friend grew up around Hauppauge. He liked it alot on the Island. I have never been though.

maltb · June 2002

It sounded like you were hoping VW would take away your current car. (maltb butts his head back out)

meinrad · June 2002

You were probaby being facetious, but don't be sorry anyway. He has continually said that VW will be buying back his car if it is not fixed correctly this time. He already has picked the trim level and color of the Jetta Wagon he wants. The tune changes, but the song remains the same.

dsm6 · June 2002

It's very much relative. Got a Yugo as your daily driver? Then the Pro is a rocket. Got a muscle car? Then I hope you like being able to actually turn now because the car is gutless and both the 1.8 and 2.0 lack low end power.

I find that even which car I drive to the lot before a test drive has a big effect on my perception of the test driven car's performance - on everything from power to handling to comfort.

Oh, but in general on power - one thing that isn't relative: too much is not enough! ;-)

newcar31 · June 2002

That's true. When compared with other engines, the 1.8L or 2.0L are gutless and lack low down torque. I could say that about ANY naturally aspirated small 4 cylinder including the 240 hp 2.0L in the S2000. My old 5.0L had more torque at IDLE than the 2.0L in the Protege has at PEAK. I remember driving my Integra after selling the Mustang and thinking that the Integra was completely gutless and slow when in fact most people would consider the VTEC Integra fast. Like you said, it's all relative.

vocus · June 2002

Malt: They said they would have to go further if the car was not fixed correctly this time. I don't want them to take the car back, I like it. I would like to have a car that doesn't have dumb little problems though. If they cannot fix the car right, I want another one. That makes sense, right? If I did not like the car, I would not want another VW Jetta, I would want another brand or model.

Meinrad: I said about the car because that is what I was told. And the trim level and color was picked anyway, because I just went through this 6 months ago when I bought the sedan.

dsm6 · June 2002

Yeah. The question is, though, are the trade-offs worth it. And the trade-offs can be a personal thing. For me, the trade-off in cost, reliability, and handling with the Pro were worth the loss of power and NVH. Other folks mileage may vary.

Mazda Protegé

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