Mazda Protegé

newcar31 · June 2002

Me too. The Mustang had to go because it sucked gas like an Econoline Van and frequently needed expensive tires, not to mention the insurance. I really liked the Integra, but it had to go too because Mazda had 0% financing and I wanted a new car. I actually think the ES Protege handles better than my old Integra. The Protege scored bonus points for being affordable, built in Japan, decent gas mileage, and absolutely INCREDIBLE handling for this price range. With 4 wheel disc brakes, 50 series performance tires on 16 inch rims, handsome black interior, euro-style exterior, and an ultra-strong chassis, the Protege ES is hard to beat. The fact that this car still gets high ratings from publications despite the fact that some feel the engine is underpowered just shows how good of a car the Protege really is (similiar things have been said about the Miata). Over one year after I bought my car, I still can't think of anything I'd want instead in this price range.

mdaffron · June 2002

My wife's 2002 Protege5 has that same awful black interior. Im-freakin-possible to keep clean. I know; I'm the one who has to clean it. Gray over black interior any day!

I do find it interesting that the 2.2L in my wife's old Cavalier had no power at all compared to the 1.8L in my Protege. And let's not even talk about the 2.3L in my old Mazda b2300 pickup, 8 plugs or not. Let's hear it for DOHCs and 16 valves!

Meade

vocus · June 2002

I definitely liked the Protege better than my Cavalier. The Cav had no power at all.

If you like 16 valves in a 4, you should try 20 with a turbocharger attached...

mdaffron · June 2002

When I traded my Saab for my Hyundai (result of being WAY upside-down -- hmmm, reminds me of someone else I know), I was questioned whether I had a turbo. Seems turbocharged engines with their high compression ratios are not looked upon too fondly when trade-in time comes. If it had a turbo they were going to really cut my trade-in amount -- especially since the car had almost 90,000 miles on it. Lucky for me I just had the normally aspirated 2.0-liter four.

This link ought to help prove my point. If you own a turbo, you've got to be meticulous with it!

http://www.turbotechnics.com/turbo/tips.htm

Sorry friend, normal aspiration for me anyday!

Meade

newcar31 · June 2002

What's so awful about the black interior? I don't think it's that hard to keep clean. I had a light colored interior before and I though that was bad. Any little spill, any mud, dirt, etc. showed up and usually stained. It's kinda hard to stain black carpet and fabric.

mdaffron · June 2002

It's lint. Dust. Dirt from shoes. (C'mon Mazda, BLACK floor mats?!) Sorry, but I feel you're just debating to be debating here. My wife and I have Proteges that are treated roughly the same and her interior requires MUCH more maintenance than mine. Fact: Dirt shows more on black inside, just as it does outside.

Meade

dsm6 · June 2002

Keep in mind it was a Saab. I think it is appropriate that GM has bought part of Saab. They have the same philosophy on build quality. The Saab folks are smarter, though; they've somehow convinced the car buying public that theirs are premium cars. That way they can charge alot more for the same outdated engineering - but hey, they've got those cool floor mounted ingitions! ;-)

Anyway, the point is, the turbo in the Jetta, used in many other vehicles such as the Audi A4, is a much better turbo than any prev. gen. Saab.

vocus · June 2002

Buy those cheap Wal-Mart floormats and put them in Tammy's Protege. It will prevent as much lint from getting on the floor. My Protege and my VW both had/have black interiors, and these mats really help in keeping it clean in there.

And if you ever dump soda on the floor in your car by accident (hopefully not on purpose), you will be darn happy to have black instead of gray mats. Also, black doesn't show dirt as easily either (at least the VW's doesn't).

jstandefer · June 2002

I have driven many, many Protege's with both motors. My choice? The 1.8L hands down!

The 1.8L is a much happier engine, IMO. It feels smoother and stronger, and sounds much much much better than the 2.0L. My first comment when I drove the 2.0L was, "Is there something wrong with this engine?" It sounded a lot less happy than the 1.8L. The 1.8L growls as RPMs rise; the 2.0L whines. I drove more of the 2.0L's... Same thing.

There is no doubt in my mind that the 1.8L cars are quicker. The 2.0L has more power, but it has to pull around that extra weight. On an interesting note, my '99 ES was recently tested on a dyno before and after my Injen Technology cold air intake. Compared to dyno's I have seen for the 2.0L, the 1.8L actually has a flatter torque curve and puts just slightly more power to the ground! I am not sure why, but the tech guru's on ProtegeClub.com were not surprised. I think it has to do with the shorter stroke and the 2.0L's larger brakes, wheels, tires, etc. More weight to move between the engine and ground...

You can see the dyno results on my webpage:

http://www.caliprotegemeet.1hwy.com/mycar.html

mdaffron · June 2002

And it ain't the floor mats that are the only problem. The seat covers show lint like it's going out of style.

C'mon guys, why are you arguing? Ever had a black pair of pants? Ever had a pair of khakis? Which shows lint, hair, etc., more?

No-brainer! Stop arguing!

Meade

mdaffron · June 2002

More info and not some new 2.0 owner trying to justify why his car is better than my 2-year-old car! Newer doesn't always mean better; look at the switch to rear drums in the '99s!

Meade

mdaffron · June 2002

I was taken to lunch today in a Saturn SC2 (I think that's the model number -- the two-door coupe). Man, that car had extremely narrow seats, NO headroom at all, and was as cramped as could be inside. And it buzzed and rattled the whole 1-mile trip across the bridge to the restaurant. I sat there in the passenger seat thinking, "zoom zoom."

Meade

vocus · June 2002

I never really had a problem with lint on the seats in the Protege though. I really don't have it now though, because I got leather seats this time around.

I know black clothes have a lint problem (I have on a black shirt right now), but never really did notice it in the car, especially not on the floormats.

vocus · June 2002

Yeah, the old Saturns are really a mess to ride in. Two of my co-worker have SC2s, and they are pretty small inside. I have alot of trouble with headroom, and I am 6'3 so that's understandable.

mdaffron · June 2002

Sure you didn't. You've admitted that you never clean your own car. When you spend a half-hour every other weekend in the driveway with the vacuum cleaner, you tend to notice these things. Man, my wife's upholstery is covered in cat hair, lint, etc., and every single grain of salt from her McDonald's french fries is visible on her floor mats and in her seats.

Yeah, I find it on my gray seats and mats too -- but only after I find it in clumps on the vacuum cleaner brush.

Meade

maltb · June 2002

stop your whining...

vocus · June 2002

Well, yeah that's true. I take my car to the carwash and have it done, because I live in the city and don't really have space to do all that at my place. I could wash and vacuum, but I would have to pull out the house vac (or get a car one), then pull the hose all the way up the alley (up the side of my house) and that's too much trouble for me.

newcar31 · June 2002

You said the grey interior is easier to keep clean. I don't agree at all. I understand that black shows more lint, etc. I haven't had a problem with lint though and if I did, it's not hard to clean up. Lint and hair, or hard to remove stains? That's a no-brainer to me.

"More info and not some new 2.0 owner trying to justify why his car is better than my 2-year-old car!"

You asked this morning and I answered. I have a feeling you were looking for an arugument by the way your original post was worded. I guess I didn't give you the right answer. I prefer the 2.0L because I like low end power. I haven't driven the 1.8L, but I know that it is more of a peaky engine. There haven't been ANY 0-60 tests by reputable (C&D, R&T, Motortrend, Automobile) mags on the 2.0L sedan with a 5sp. I told you that if there is any difference in acceleration between the two, it's small. What's wrong with that? Did I say that my car is better than yours? What do you want me to say? The 1.8L is MUCH, MUCH better. I wish I would have bought the 2000 instead of the 2001. Geez, I guess I have to learn to never, ever, disagree with you.

the_big_h · June 2002

never underestimate the wrath of the Meadster!

mdaffron · June 2002

Keep up.

Meade

dsm6 · June 2002

Here's what Edmunds says in their review of the 01 Pro with respect to the change from the 1.8 to the 2.0 on their ES test car:

"Lack of power had been one of the few negatives leveled at the Protege. That claim will probably not be heard again. The car accelerates easily  though still rather noisily at low rpms  and sounds happier the higher it's revved, finally red-lining at 6,500 rpm. This results in good mid-range acceleration, just where you want it for passing or powering out of a curve."

The 0-60 times, 1/4 ets and speeds are about the same, IIRC, so I don't put much stock in the claim that one is quicker than the other. On the other hand, they do have different power curves. The 2.0 has more low end torque. Personally, unless its something like one of the Honda VTECs which do the high end so well, I'll take it down low. Besides, the engine is the weak point of the Pro IMO. I personally am not too fond of either engine. If my first concern was engine, especially if I want a high winding engine, I wouldn't purchase either a 2.0 or a 1.8 Pro. YMMV

vocus · June 2002

I don't know where they say that about the Protege's 2.0 engine. It surely isn't in the review of the 2002 P5. They say that engine is not happy at higher rpm. I don't get Edmunds sometimes.

protege_fan · June 2002

Any of you guys ever seen, heard of, or used this stuff:

http://www.permatex.com/auto/autogr.asp?f_call=get_item&item_no=16067

Apparently, it can fix minor chips in your windshield...something I'm really into as I have a fair share of tiny chips out of my windshield that I don't want to become full blown cracks!!

mdaffron · June 2002

After it's gone over 80,000 miles with no trouble. Cut and paste all the crap you want; I speak from the pleasant experience of having owned Proteges for 10-1/2 years.

Ya little whipper-snappers.

Meade

vocus · June 2002

It might be worth a shot to try it. Is there a money-back guarantee if it doesn't work?

dsm6 · June 2002

To which engine are you referring? I'd think reliability would be about the same on both the 1.8 and 2.0. So I guess you're reference to cutting and pasting info about the 2.0 is a bit out of place, and instead you're talking about my reference to high revving Honda engines? But then why the comment about reliability?

Whipper-snapper? Hmm. I'm pretty sure we're the same age.

Does not compute. Does not compute. ;-)

protege_fan · June 2002

Dunno about the guarantee. I'm gonna go check it out in a few minutes here.

jstandefer · June 2002

I just took a look at a bunch of 2.0L dyno's people have posted on Protegeclub.com. The 2.0L does has a slightly higher torque curve from 2,000 to 4,000 rpm, but it's an increase of about 5-7 ft-lbs which doesn't do much with the extra weight of the 2.0L cars. However, a huge difference is past 4,000 rpm. The 2.0L's torque curve falls rather quickly after 5,000 rpm. The 1.8L barely drops off and actually produces more torque after 5,000 rpm. Plus, the 1.8L's horsepower curve is higher across the board!

-Jerry

newcar31 · June 2002

5-7 lbs AT THE WHEELS is actually quite an improvement and the gain comes in the RPM range used most often.

"Plus, the 1.8L's horsepower curve is higher across the board!"

That doesn't make any sense. Mazda must have fibbed on the output of the 2.0L just like they did with the Miata.

vocus · June 2002

I was looking at the dyno from your Protege, Jerry, and it only gets like 102hp to the wheels? What is the typical output at the wheels compared to at the flywheel? Just wondering.

jstandefer · June 2002

I'm talking at the wheels. The 1.8L seems to be getting better efficiency. It may be the 2.0L's larger (and heavier) brakes, wheels, and tires. I have no doubt the 2.0L makes more hp at the crank, but it's only an 8hp increase over the 1.8L, and the difference at the wheels in only 2-3hp.

"5-7 lbs AT THE WHEELS is actually quite an improvement and the gain comes in the RPM range used most often."

I'm happy that's quite an improvement, because I got a 6 ft-lb increase at the wheels with the Injen CAI. However, those 5-7 ft-lbs at the wheels is taken up by the 2.0L's heavier overall weight. I've driven both cars (over a hundred, literally) and the 2.0L offered nothing more than the 1.8L down low and the 1.8L was definitely better above 4,000rpm. However, in the automatics, there was a difference with the 2.0L giving better power down low, but the 1.8L still offered much more performance up high.

jstandefer · June 2002

A loss of 15% is typical for a front wheel drive manual transaxle. Most 2.0L's I have seen get 98-100hp at the wheels.

vocus · June 2002

How about a front-drive automatic?

newcar31 · June 2002

You honestly gained that much from a cold air intake? Did you lose any power in different RPM ranges? How does the cold air intake work when the MAF is so close to the air filter box? If the gain is that significant, I want one.....as long as it isn't too loud.

jstandefer · June 2002

Take a look at my website. Towards the bottom of the page is the Injen Racing Division Cold Air Intake with a pic of the stock intake removed (and you will see why there is such an increase), the new intake in place, and the dyno results.

http://www.caliprotegemeet.1hwy.com/mycar.html

I gained 5 hp (102.8 to 107.8) and 6.2 ft-lbs of torque (105.0 to 111.2). Under 2,500rpm, I lost between 1hp and 5hp but above 2,500rpm there is a constant gain across the board. On the torque side, torque is pretty equal under 2,500rpm but a constant increase across the board above that.

The Injen intake looks and sounds terrific. Under normal cruising or light acceleration, the intake is quiet. Actually, freeway (65-80mph) cruising is quieter. But, under moderate to full throttle, the intake lets out a deep roar that sounds so much better than most "performance" exhaust systems. It really turns heads, especially from those modded Civic's and Integra's. The increase in throttle response is amazing and the engine revs so much easier, particularly 5,000rpm to redline.

The MAF sensor is positioned about midway in the intake. As you can see, the entire stock air intake system is removed and replaced. The Injen CAI runs from the throttle body into the fender well where a cone (cotton gauze, mesh reinforced) air filter resides. The stock MAF and IAT sensor are used. Also, the purge solenoid valve and coolant resevoir had to be repositioned. The only downfall to the Injen system is the price... about $320. But hey, I got mine for free! :-)

-Jerry

newcar31 · June 2002

That sounds like a good deal, but I'd be worried about the positioning of the air filter here in MN. It looks like it would get wet. Also, I had a cold-air intake on my Integra and it was VERY, VERY loud. It was way louder than any exhaust you could put on your car. It was truly obnoxious and attracted the sort of attention I didn't want any time I gave it some throttle. Between 7000-8000 rpms, it was almost deafening. I'd bet the Protege's would be quieter because it isn't sucking as much air, but I don't know how much quieter. Do they make a kit that doesn't position the air filter in the fender?

jstandefer · June 2002

Injen doesn't make a kit, but AEM does make a short ram intake. It doesn't produce as much power as the Injen, but it's still an increase. I have also heard that the AEM isn't as loud...

BTW, the Injen CAI isn't really loud, from what my friends tell me. They say it is a low rumble which, unfortunately, can be heard several blocks away. It does attract a whole lot of attention because it sounds like some kind of exotic sports car. I love it, but I don't want the attention of the police. If I do see police around, I just take it easy with the throttle and it's as quiet as stock. What is strange is that this CAI is loudest between 3,500 and 4,500rpm. I wonder if it has to do with VICS opening up at second intake runner...

You can get a bypass valve to shed any water that does get in, but the guys at Injen told me it produces enough drag to almost negate the effect of the CAI.

-Jerry

kaiserhead · June 2002

I've driven all three third gen engines, the 2.0 was the least enjoyable, feels just like the 1.6 I drive everyday. The 1.8 was nice for an auto, but hands down the best Mazda engine I've had was the 2.0i in my '87 626. Pure 80's enjoyment!!!

jstandefer · June 2002

My favorite Mazda engine is way smaller and doesn't have any pistons at all... Still trying to figure out a way to drop one into my Protege... Oh well... Only 6 or 7 more months before the RX-8 hits the market... LOL
-Jerry

the_big_h · June 2002

aww man! I want it now!

actually that works out perfectly, by that time I should have the Protege paid off and will be free to make any move I want without fear of going upside-down on loans

protege_fan · June 2002

You can get them from www.aempower.com OR goto This Link

These are the same graphs for a 1.8L 2000 ES.

mem300m · June 2002

I need to replace the left front CV axle on my son's
95 Mazda Protege. I've never done this before though
I do have the Haynes manual. If anyone has experience
doing this I'd
appreciate an email at mikemore@rocketmail.com

Thanks,

Mike Morehouse

protege_fan · June 2002

Try this website:

http://mazdaprotege.net/tech/howto/rightaxle/

maltb · June 2002

by that time I should have the Protege paid off and will be free to make any move I want without fear of going upside-down on loans

Like that's ever stopped anyone...teeheeheehee.

protegextwo · June 2002

"going upside-down on loans".....
"Like that's ever stopped anyone"

HeHe... :-)))

-old head

maltb · June 2002

but my point was not to point....

protegextwo · June 2002

"There are changes coming to Town Hall... and even though they are improvements, you KNOW how online change upsets some folks. So take a moment and read that Letter from the Town Hall Manager on the main Town Hall page to prepare yourself!"

-PF Flyer-Host

Prepare me! I haven't read the letter yet, but I just want to know if these changes have been tested MORE THOROUGHLY than the last major changes that took place here? I know you weren't HERE then, but I'm sure you heard all about it! It was a DISASTER. NOTHING worked right,...

-fastdriver

...were going down for at least 4 or 5 days, yikes
-Larry

protegextwo · June 2002

Call me chicken little, I always think the sky is fallin, lol! I'm sure these changes will ONLY increase our enjoyment of TH and prolly not create any.....

-Larry

vocus · June 2002

You were looking about getting rid of your wife's car a couple months ago when the transmission went up (was it once or twice?), so don't even go there.

chikoo · June 2002

la la lala laa lala.....

Mazda Protegé

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