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Mazda Protegé

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Comments

  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    "ALL 2.0L between 2001-2002 are affected"

    It is VERY slight and I don't know if I would call it a rattle. Most people wouldn't notice it, but I am really picky when it comes to cars. Besides, if only some of them did it, then Mazda would figure out what is different from the affected engines and fix it. What Mazda is saying now is that ALL of them do it and it is normal. If all of them DON'T do it, then it is not normal. If yours truly doesn't do it, then what is different between your engine and mine? See what I am getting at?
  • shriqueshrique Member Posts: 338
    itself isn't that apparently. I can only hear it when the windows are open and I'm driving past something that will reflect the sound back. The only thing that's slightly noticable is a slight decrease in power when the car is cold and below 2500 rpm or so. After that it picks right up and starts to feel just like normal.

    I finally got rid of some of the "roughness" of the engine at high RPMS by changing to synth. Now I want to track down this other niggling little issue.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    I can never notice decreasing of power as I never push my car when it's still cold.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    If you read the TSB, you'll notice that they say "light to moderate" throttle. I don't push my car either when it's cold but I can still notice the slight (and I mean SLIGHT) drop in power. It feels like the A/C compressor turning on, but it's not. (Yes, I know the HVAC control setting has the A/C on if you don't select "face".)
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    any engine at cold temperature?
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    I hear it, and feel it, quite well even when not pushing the car.

    IIRC, the person who made the original post I quoted above was going to check again - but didn't report back with anything new to add.

    I believe it is indeed an emissions measure to reduce emissions during the warm-up period (when cars tend to pollute the most), in combination with reducing engine warm-up time, through fine tuning of the intake stage (through VTCS) and spark advance, used only until the engine warms up as indicated by the ECT.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    is exactly coincident with the rattle, in an on-off-on pattern, as if the throttle is lifted a bit as you accelerate.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    It seems that I never experience what you guys described either. Lucky me.

    Bruno
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    From Edmunds of all places (gee, imagine that):

    "The variable tumble control system reduces emissions on cold-starts by promoting greater swirl within the combustion chamber."

    Anybody have an technical details on how it works? I'm starting to see what might be going on here, but its hard to know without knowing exactly what VTCS does.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    how some people experience this and others don't. According to the TSB, ALL 2001-2002 2.0L engines are affected. Either you guys aren't noticing it, or there is a difference between our engines. If there is a difference between our engines, then there HAS to be a way to correct it. ???????????????
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    it's called "manufacturing tolerance." Unfortunately, one can't possibly dream of a zero tolerance mechanical piece. Let's me say it again: one can of course dream, but it doesn't exist. Also I live in Houston where the temperature is pretty warm.

    Bruno
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    I once heard a sound clip of the death rattle. It was awful and I know that my Pro doesn't do that. However, maybe there are different intensities of the sound...ie. worse in some Pro's than others.

    What I have noticed is that you have to be very careful w/ the throttle when the car is cold, otherwise it's like it almost stalls.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    I have driven some with it and some without it. It doesn't happen in all of them.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    the engine is noisier when it's "really" cold (< 40 deg. Far), may be it's just at the border of what's called "rattle".
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Right, it's tolerances, and the better built/stronger/more powerful engines do it, whereas the wimpy "Friday car" engines don't. ;-)
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    If that's the case, what's the difference between those that do and those that don't? Sorry, but I don't buy the manufacturing tolerances idea. This is a programming issue, not a manufacturing issue. If some do and some don't, then Mazda needs to reword their TSB so that it doesn't say "all 2.0L from 2001-2002". Like I said before, if some do and some don't, then it can and SHOULD be fixed.
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    wish I could tell you though. Somewhere, somebody probably knows but it could be a $/effectiveness equation that keeps it from being known.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    "This is a programming issue, not a manufacturing issue."

    Could it be one is the cause, the other is the cure? But again, all that are suppositions.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    The fact that some engines do this and others don't is very troubling and proves that it is not a "normal operating characteristic". Mazda's own TSB contradicts itself. First it says "ALL 2.0L between 2001-2002 are affected". Then it goes on to say:
    "Customer *may* experience an engine rattle"

    Well, if all of the engines are affected, then the "Customer *WILL* experience an engine rattle". It's really simple logic. I'm affraid Maltb answered my question already though and it's not the answer I wanted to hear...
  • glideslopesglideslopes Member Posts: 431
    This thread brings back found memories of years past defending the " zoom factor " of our 1.8 as the 01 model year arrived. I'll take my 00 ES 1.8 over the 2.0 any day.

    Regards,
    Mark.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    I have been car shopping the past couple of days. No, not because I am tired of my car, but because one of my best friends wrecked his car on Saturday night, and it's totalled. I saw a 2001 Pro DX with only 20.5K on it for $8900. He said his budget is $10K OTD, so I am going to talk to him about this one. Other cars in the running: a new Kia Rio, 99 Saturn SL1 (17.5K, $6990), and an 01 Elantra GLS (21.5K, $7999). He will decide in a week's time what to drive...
  • theparallaxtheparallax Member Posts: 361
    Either the Protege or the Elantra...
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    I wish I had the 1.8 too, but I'm stuck with the 2.0 and the pinging of course on cool days. And now this pinging will get worse as the temp will dip in the next weeks. God I hate that noise. I'll take to to Mazda just so they know it occurs, you know, just in case.

    Dinu
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    I think they did poorly in the NHSTA or IIHS crash tests.
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    "Well, if all of the engines are affected, then the "Customer *WILL* experience an engine rattle". It's really simple logic."

    Well, not really. Using the word affected does not mean it has the rattle. It means it has the possiblity of the rattle due to a design flaw. After that flaw, manufacturing tolerances, climate, driver, all play into whether you have a serious rattle or no rattle at all. But do to the engines design flaw, ALL are affected.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    How does your 2.0L ping? I though the 2.0L's have a knock sensor. I thought it was the older models without knock sensors that pinged?

    Meinrad--Well, that's your interpretation.
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    My friend wrecked a 1997 Sentra with 121K miles on it that he got used with 14K on it about 4 years ago. He was recently complaining what a POS the car was, because the doors unlocked themselves, the battery and starter went, the CEL never went out, the low fuel light broke and stranded us once, and other stuff. He said last night he liked the car, it never had any problems, and he wanted another one just like it.

    People just amaze me sometimes...
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Did I just hear the pot calling the kettle black???
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    I think you are to naive to believe that company is telling to the costumers the whole true as if they are in the house. On the other hand - not going to defend Mazda - but I don't see any contradiction in the TSB as meinrad has pointed it out. The rattle is the minor comfort issue, and it doesn't affect the performance of reliability of the engine. I think this fact is right. Now if you are not happy that Mazda will not fix it because it's economically not worth it, it's perfectly legitime for you as costumer, I share also the frustration. Just I don't get your point trying to tell that those of us who do not hear the rattle are insensitive, or the TSB is wrong, or etc...

    Bruno
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Play nice.

    My 2000 ES just turned 43,000 miles this weekend ... still goin' strong!

    Looking forward to MAPP IV!

    Meade
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Naive? I know Mazda knows more about this than they are telling us.

    "Just I don't get your point trying to tell that those of us who do not hear the rattle are insensitive, or the TSB is wrong, or etc..."

    Huh? I never called anyone insensitive. I just wanted to find out if everybody was experiencing this. I felt a lot better when I thought that "they all do it". Now that I know that they don't all do it, it makes me nervous even though it might not hurt the engine.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    OK sorry, "insensitive" not the right quote, here is the exact quote from you:

    >>Either you guys aren't noticing it, or there is a difference between our engines. If there is a difference between our engines, then there HAS to be a way to correct it.<<

    Anyway, as I told before, my car is not completely immune of the rattle, and this happens in a relatively warm weather. This will probably make you feel better.

    Bruno
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    ...I left some orchids in my car during the day yesterday (accidentally, of course...do I ever do anything on purpose?).

    And the car was in the sun.

    And last night, the interior of my car smelled like rotting vegetation.

    Drove home with the windows and roof open, left the windows cracked last night.

    This morning: the interior of the car still stinks of rotting vegetation.

    Other than nasty chemical sprays and weird cab-driver air fresheners, any suggestions?

    Ironic, since just the other day a passenger commented that my car still had that new-car smell.

    And the first person who suggests going through the carwash with the windows down will get a personal kick in the a** from me. I don't care if I have to buy plane tickets to do it.

    --Dale
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    why don't you take the car through the carwash with windows down...

    (runs away)
  • meinradmeinrad Member Posts: 820
    some Hello Kitty Litter!
  • protegextwoprotegextwo Member Posts: 1,265
    Dale, have Meade Fed EX you a pair of his pre-worn unwashed socks from last weekend. Stuff them putrid babies in your air vents, crank the heater and the ghastly smell of decayed orchids will be just a wishful memory.

    -old head
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    just go to walmart's Auto section.
    They have a air-freshener with "NEW-CAR" fragrance.
    Try that out!!
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Well, actually, Wise Guy Raymond's suggestion makes the most sense. An open bag or small pan of fresh kitty litter in the back of the car for a couple of days probably would absorb the odor pretty well.

    Nick: Do you drive a cab?

    Larry: I doubt Meade would part with a pair of his unwashed socks. Haven't you heard what he does with those?

    Hank: Be afraid. Be very afraid.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    Absobs odours (not odors) and moisture very effectively. Very useful in refrigerators as well :-)
    Get a small box, open it and place it somewhere it won't spill, of course!

    Also try a room/air freshener spray and a car air-freshener that you can place inside the car somewhere.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Member Posts: 2,405
    Get a small box, open it and place it somewhere it won't spill, of course!

    I don't think that's possible if Dale's involved.

    :O
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    Yeah, the baking soda might be a little neater than the kitty litter. (See, I'm thinking ahead, Mike! :P)

    Like I said, I'm trying to avoid sprays and car air fresheners. I can't STAND those things.

    Makes me think of all those years of taking cabs, and paying money for the privelege of being driven around by weirdos. No offense to any weirdos...er, I mean...cab drivers.
  • newcar31newcar31 Member Posts: 3,711
    Matter of fact, I'm getting kind of sick of the new car smell. Meade-can you send me a pair of your un-washed socks, preferably after you've worn them for a week. I want my car to smell like an airport taxi.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Shmmummpf thrmmm grmmmbb fmmfh. Whmm uh mummffmmt.

    Hmmff?

    Oh. There. Couldn't talk with my mouth full of sock.

    Can't part with my socks, thank you very much. But I'll happily toss a pair of old, overstretched tighty-whities. Now that I've lost FORTY-NINE POUNDS since January 5 of this year, they keep falling down around my ankles. Kinda embarrassing when you're giving a Power Point demonstration to your organization's board of directors.

    So ... Meade's used underpants. Only a buck a pair. Get yours now! And to keep this on-topic, I'll throw in an Edmunds MAPP T-shirt with every order!

    Meade
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    Now there's something that would welcome the smell of dead flowers...
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    All Dale had to do to keep those flowers alive was visit ONE car wash ....
  • shriqueshrique Member Posts: 338
    If you can find it you can get a bag of activated charcoal. Stick it in a pan and leave it over night in your car. That can remove some amazing odors. This suggestion was from a guy that cleaned up crime scenes. (yuck)
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    They're made of silica gel (same stuff commonly used in dessicant bags). It works on a similar principal to activated charcoal: molecules of the offending chemicals get trapped in small crevices. You toss it out after it's saturated. You could recharge it (or activated carbon) by heating it, but you won't like the smell.

    Regular clay-type litter works the same way, but to a lesser degree.

    Leave your windows open as much and for as long as you can. You'll eventually dilute the odor source enough that it'll blend into the background.

    If you want to be more active about it, try an odor-neutralizing spray. Look for ones that claim to neutralize organic sources of odor. And avoid the heavily-perfurmed ones. I really hate those myself.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    oh good heavens.

    Dirty socks, used underpants, dead flowers, crime scene odors...

    Y'know, it's lunchtime for many folks at this moment. (At least it WAS.)

    :)
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    Just leave your windows down (shouldn't be a problem for you) while you're driving here and there. I'll betcha that bad odor wafts away after a few days.

    Heck, that's what cured my former Mazda pickup of my wife's little bout of "morning sickness" she left in the seat, cloth door insert and door map pocket a few years ago ... orchids, by comparison? Them's easy!!!

    (How's that for your lunchtime appetite, Pat?)

    Meade
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