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Mazda Protegé

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Comments

  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    The outside should scrub less (unless you push a lot), so you will have more tread left on the newer tire when you get 3 more Toyos as soon as the Dunflops wear out.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    why outside tire scrub less? Someone cares to elaborate? Otherwise how can I believe.
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    1. Changed his tune
    2. Agreed with me

    Watch out for the flying pigs ;) (JK)

    Have a good weekend all.

    Bruno - I'd say the outside tires may continue to hold on during a tight highspeed turn, but the inside ones do the sliding, because they're the fulcrum (kinda) around which the vehicle turns, in the vertical plane (rather, relative to the vertical plane). Hmm - terrible phyics - but it seems obvious to me :)

    I'm sure you'll turn up a more credible description/explanation to correct or support that ;)
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    My next car!

    Please, oh puh-lease Mazda, keep the 3 wagon looking like this for 2006!!!

    http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,277694,00.jpg

    http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,277697,00.jpg

    Meade
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    Generally, you align wheels with negative camber which means that, in cornering maneuvers, the outside tire is more vertical which is good because you maximize the surface area of the contact patch. This spreads the force out across the whole tire instead of what happens on the inside tire. The inside tire does not get maximum surface area for contact, so the friction is concentrated to the inside of the tire which will cause uneven wear.

    This is a downside to unidirectional tires. The tires remain on the same side of the vehicle at all times. If you drive like I do (more right turns than left) one side will wear out quicker than the other. This happened on my 2001 ES. The passenger side tires had more wear than the driver side.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    if no one can give a clear explanation, I will be forced to do my homework and figure out what's really happening during cornering. Later then...
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    ... and lean your head out the window while taking some off-ramps fast. Be forewarned, you may have to set the cruise control and steer with your foot while you lean out the passenger window.

    Let us know the results of your observations Monday.

    If you can.

    Meade
  • danpearsondanpearson Member Posts: 12
    I don't know if I follow all this left vs. right logic but the bad Dunlop is on the back right so I will probably put it on there. I believe the Dunlops are directional and I don't want to have it on the wrong way. When I'm ready to rotate them back to the front I'll probably replace the other Dunlop with a matching Toyo.

    Dan
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    Arggg. No, I think I will rather chose a safer solution of theoretical vs experimental, because otherwise you risk won't me alive Monday to tell you my finding. Have you heard a story of Lavoisier+Guillotine? I don't want to be an heros like him. Check it out:

    http://www.strandmag.com/new_page_12.htm

    A must sentense: Protege is nice, regardless which tire scrub more during cornering.

    Bruno
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    I don't think they are unidirectional tires.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    I did my homework. Here is what I find out:

    - Given a specific speed, the smallest cornering radius can be achieved when all four tires do not slide (manifested by the squeezing noise otherwise). If one of the tires starts to slide, the overall friction is immediately getting smaller to correctly count balance the centrifuge force. In the next, we'll assume the car is in the no-sliding situation.

    - The maximum centrifuge force that the Protege/P5 can take in a dry surface is around 0.85 g.

    - For such hard cornering (0.85 g), because of the weight transfer, the weight applied on the outer wheel will be around three time larger than the inner wheel. Furthermore, the front outer wheel is the most loaded (than the rear outer) because the center of the turning circle is located more in the back of the car (since the steering wheels are in front), and also because of an eventual deceleration during cornering.

    - Lateral deformation of the rubber is greater when there is more weight and lateral force load.

    - The slip angle of the tire (i.e., the angle of the deformation of the rubber around the contact patch due to the active steering) is proportional to the torsion/lateral load of the wheel, which in turn is proportional to the dynamical weight. Therefore the outer tire is subject to about three time more of slip angle than that of the inner tire. However, it's true that the camber effect that Boggse has referred previously could make the slip angle in not uniformly distributed in the patch contact of the inner wheel.

    - Because the outer wheel has more weight and thus more dominant in the steering, the other effect of the negative camber is to provide then a natural oversteer compensation for the car during the cornering.

    - Tire wear depends mostly on slip angle, lateral/directional deformation, and weight load that apply on the tire.

    I think we have all necessary ingredient to find out the best place for putting the good tire: OUTER FRONT WHEEL.

    Bruno
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,277694,00.jpg

    the body line looks like it was stolen from a hyundai Accent.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    What if you aren't at the limit (0.85g)? What if you were at a reasonable speed, say 60% of the limit? What would you calculate the lateral slip angle proportion to be? I am trying to understand why the tires on the passenger side of my 2001 ES wore out faster and less evenly than the driver side tires.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    did the tires on the passenger side wore out evenly or only the inner side?

    If only on the inner side, then there is a possible answer and that is -ve camber.

    secondly, i might conclude that u might have taken more tight turns to your left, thereby shifting the weight to the outer side, namely the passenger tires.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Yesterday (Thursday) afternoon while I was sitting ahem.. working at work, the power went off. So since the Maxima did not have any gas in it and traffic was stopped everywhere in the city and gas pumps were not working, I left it at work and hitched a ride home with a colleague in her 1week old RSX (that I helped her buy - negotiate $500 over invoice) - nice car, GREAT sport seats.

    So since collecting on delinquent folks is not exactly considered to be "Essential Services", I stayed home. Well not exactly. Got together with my friends and went to the beach, about 100-130kms north of Toronto in...

    A 200 Sunlight Silver Metallic PRO SE (DX in the US) equipped with AT and A/C - no power windows and all those fancy gadgets - saved lots of weight this way :)

    Now picture this: the powerful 1.6L engine, A/C on at fan speed 2, 4 guys in the car - say roughly 600lbs - a wise guestimation only, AT-equipped, all riding on 14" Firestones - while not as refined inside as others better equipped, the car did not have one rattle or squeak, although the front right side vibrated at 120km/h but went away at 130km/h or 140km/h which was NOT our cruising speed during this trip! :) While not as powerful as our 2.0L 2001 ES, even this little silver bullet was ok, although picking up speed on an uphill was not its "best feature".

    And as I returned home tonite, the power was back on, I filled up the PRO and as of tomorrow it's back to reality driving my "luxury sedan", while only looking at the sleek lines of this fine "sport sedan" I call the Protege.

    Dinu
  • fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    beaches? How are they compared to Florida's? Are you sure you guys totaled 600 pounds?

    The reason deer wait until cars get close to them before crossing roads is so they can see potholes and avoid stepping in one and breaking a leg. Cars are their nightlights.

    fowler3
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    You're a collector? That's what I do too.
  • bluong1bluong1 Member Posts: 1,927
    if you take the corner with 0.5g (60% of the max), then the weight of the outer wheel is still 1.7 time larger than the inner wheel. The end effect is less extreme but still there, I guess.

    Are you sure the alignment of your ES is perfect?

    Bruno
  • pierreasdfpierreasdf Member Posts: 22
    on passenger side (I have it too) may be because of the 'crown of the road'. I don't know if it is the correct english expression, but I'm talking about the slight slope from left to right for evacuating rain. For instance, on the interstate, I'm always slightly correcting the steering to left because of this, and I know that my Pro is perfectly aligned. My opinions is that this result in a constant higher pressure on the passenger side...
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Not a "collector collector", meaning I don;t work for an agency. I work for TELUS Mobility (Cell phone provider) in A/R, which really is collecting on clients that have been cancelled and assessing risk on new accounts.

    Dinu
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    I had the Protege precision aligned at 5,000 and 10,000 miles. Wear was heavier on the inside of the passenger-side tires.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    We collect in-house also. I'm really retired but I work there about 16 hours a week for the fun of it. I love a good irate customer.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    "I love a good irate customer."

    HA HA! Same here. Nothing is funnier than having someone go through their whole dictionary of not-so-innoffensive language only to have to hang up on them when they're done. It's as if they wasted their whole fuel tank and now when they're running on fumes, the gas station is out of gas. And no I'm not a mean person.

    Oh yeah, and I love driving the Protege.

    Dinu
  • maltbmaltb Member Posts: 3,572
    we know how both of you enjoy stirring the pot.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    This is the reply I got back:

    From : <carcomm@microsoft.com>
        
    To : <xxxxxx@hotmail.com>
       
    Subject : CST127314143ID - RE: Offensive reviews
       
    Date : Fri, 15 Aug 2003 02:46:05 -0700
       
    Hello Dinu,

    Thank you for writing to MSN Autos regarding the content of Consumer Reviews for
    the Mazda Protege.

    We appreciate the time you spent in reporting Review IDs 377928, 377376, 377375,
    377374, 377371, 377036, 377035, 377033, 376236, 376231, 374601, 374600 and 374356 to our department. The opinions expressed in the reviews are the opinions of the writers and do not represent the editorial position of MSN Autos.

    We have already disabled the said reviews as they contain inappropriate and irrelevant information. We hope this will somehow make up for the inconvenience you have experienced.

    We hope you are enjoying MSN Autos, and we look forward to meeting all your future service needs.

    Thank you for using MSN Autos.

    Sincerely,

    Sabrina
    MSN Autos Customer Support

    Dinu
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    What? Me? :)

    Dinu
  • chicagoprochicagopro Member Posts: 1,009
    First car: This one, a 2000 Protege ES.
    Current mileage: ~26,000
    Seat squeaks: absolutely none, and I weigh somewhere in between Todd and Meade.
    Warranty work: new radiator, new seatbelt locking thingy. No hassles.
    Would I purchase again?: absolutely.

    Question: Just got the postcard from the dealer, saying I'm due for a transmission check and some kind of flush. (Can't remember right now...coolant? Fuel injection something?)

    Should I go for this?
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Yes for the coolant flush b/c in your case after 3yrs and 3 Chicago winters (or even 2 depending on when you bought the car), that coolant will eventually lose some of its effectiveness.

    So yeah I would do it and also do the plugs by 30K.

    Dinu
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Member Posts: 1,583
    i need to flush my coolant AND tranny soon... :-/
  • tomcivilettitomciviletti Member Posts: 207
    Unless you drive like a little old lady [very slowly and never on a freeway], I strongly suggest against changing one tire; that is, unless it is of the same type and size and the others are almost new.

    The 3 wagon looks pretty good, but I'm not sure about the shoulder line. it does have a certain Hyundai feel to it. Maybe they should go look at BMWs and Audis for a while, then go try again. A small reprofiling could have a big effect.
  • boggseboggse Member Posts: 1,048
    That was my point initially, which I forgot in the inside/outside debate. You do not want 2 different tread patterns on the drive wheels. Best to put it on the rear. Even better if you put 2 tires of the same tread pattern on the rear or front.

    There has been some debate on whether to put the best tread on the front or rear. If you have ABS, putting the best tread on the rear will aide the driver in controlling stability, but will hamper traction for accelerating, cornering, and braking. Without ABS, the stability advantage is lessened as braking becomes more of a concern. Cornering is not much of a concern because the car will just understeer more which is generally considered safe behavior for left-hand drive vehicles. Acceleration traction also is less of a concern since you can just let off the throttle to control wheel spin. Pretty much, it comes down to a case of braking vs. stability. Personally, I would choose stability, but to each his own.
  • tomcivilettitomciviletti Member Posts: 207
    I think there are many potential problems here. Any time the car is close to the edge, whether braking, accelerating or cornering, losing grip on one side can turn you around [and around, if you are going fast enough]. Depending on the situation, it could be the new or old tire that breaks free. The new tire would be less likely to hydroplane, due to deeper tread, but the old tire might have better dry road adhesion.

    All things considered, I would put the dissimilar tire on the back and drive like the road is always ice covered.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    ... and since I've been in TWICE since my last rotation-and-balance for them to take another WHACK AT IT after getting on the highway and experiencing VIBRATION CITY, I'm gonna take it in today ... even though it's been only 2K since my last rotation/balancing..

    I know, I know ... should take it to a real tire shop. But I just love those free rotations and balancings ... if they get it right this time, I'll stay. If not, I'll drop 20 bucks and get a tire shop to do it. (I'm starting to question the "balance every time you rotate" thing anyway. Seems just when everything's smooth and wonderful, they re-balance and all is crap again!)

    BTW, they'll be using those weights that stick onto the inside of the wheel ... no weights will be visible from the outside of the tire. I had a Saab that had those weights a few years back. I kinda liked the unbroken appearance of the rims -- I only wish this could've been done from the beginning, since after 62,000 miles I've got plenty of scars on my rims from weight changes!

    (Yesssss, I know ... I'm 2K overdue for my 60K-mile major service. I'm looking under my seats and beneath the sofa cushions, trying to find $250 in spare change ...)

    Y'all have a good week -- I'll be back Friday. Taking two days of comp time to ... er ... "enjoy" painting the trim on the house ...

    Meade
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    I agree with you, Sepang Green just doesn't look good on cars. My wife spotted a Protege sedan in that color yesterday and actually was impressed enough to tell me how much she disliked it. She normally doesn't care about how cars look.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    On the PRO it doesn't look good I agree, but the shape of the M6 allows it to look classy and more expensive than it is.

    Just my opinion...

    Dinu
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    Sepang is the light puky color on the M6.

    The Protege, on the other hand, has a richer (but still not-great-looking) Seabreeze Green. No mazda or review website or brochure photo seems to do justice to either color - you have to see them in person. IMHO, anything but the Emerald Mica Green (really dark, almost black) doesn't suit either the M6 or the Pro.
  • bluem6ibluem6i Member Posts: 77
    To each his own. I have an 02 LX PRO in Seabreeze. IMHO, it's the best looking color on the PRO. I get a lot of compliments on the color. I don't see very many so it makes mine kind of exclusive.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    I came across a brand new 2003 Pro LX with Auto for $11,800. not entirely sold on buying it new as I've seen two 2001 Pros that sold for 7k this week (I missed them...bummer). Decisions, decisions...
  • fowler3fowler3 Member Posts: 1,919
    I checked back, maybe not far enough, I don't recall saying I did not like Sepang Green. It is a nice color. The Seabeeze Green (thought it was Seafoam Green for some reason) is different, not as much metal flake. You have to like green in just about any shade to buy a green car.

    The only problem I have with Sepang is it's hard to photograph and get the exact shade. The metal flake is highly reflective with the lightest shades of the color photographing as greys. AND the less than inspirational name. Mazda seems to have a problem with that too, no imagination. It isn't very cool to give colors names their buyers don't recognize.

    I have problems with Seabreeze Green too. Hard to visualize seas as green, most are vivid blue. Fresh water is green. But it says *breeze*, which has no color at all. Sometimes I think they grab people off the street and drag them in to make these decisions.

    Can hardly wait for fall when people start chatting again.

    fowler3
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    I got the greens mixed up. Green was never my favorite color on a car anyway, (except that nice dark green on the Miata, and the dark metallic green on the Protege). I guess it's the lighter shades of green I don't like.

    I don't know where they're coming up with these names, but you know someone at MNAO approved them. What's "Sepang" anyway?
  • mdaffronmdaffron Member Posts: 4,421
    You almost dissed me but you quickly redeemed yourself.

    Meade
  • ashutoshsmashutoshsm Member Posts: 1,007
    ... just caught our tongues (or keystrokes) in time, realizing we had a strong contingent of Mica Green owners here. And by strong I mean numbers. Only.

    Ooops, did I say that out loud?
  • kizer4kizer4 Member Posts: 12
    Blueguydotcom,
    Where have you been able to find a new LX auto for 11.8K? I'm in NY and wondering if I could get one near that price?
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    I had gotten a green Protege. He associates green strongly with our gutless neighbor country. India's neighbor, not USA's
  • mazdafunmazdafun Member Posts: 2,329
    When I posted my qualification on green on cars. :)

    Seriously though, I like the dark metallic greens, but find the light greens kind of pallid. Ick. Not for me.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    San diego. It's a mica blue one. Their final price is 12300 but I get another $500 off for the college grad stuff (finished grad school under 2 years ago).
  • kizer4kizer4 Member Posts: 12
    Rochester, NY here. I just graduated too, I was quoted $13K for a LX auto that includes the college rebate. I'm gonna see if I could get it down to $12K or close enough. I loved the test drive, a lot more than the civic. thanks for the reply
  • vocusvocus Member Posts: 7,777
    One of the many loaners I drove when I had my VW was this color. It wasn't too bad a color really, IMO.
  • tom4321tom4321 Member Posts: 4
    I think it's gone. www.protegeclub.com
    I tried to get to it but i can't.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    wwww.mazda6club.com
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