Mazda Protegé

hkchan · June 2001

True, but then a pair of colored mirrors probably cost more than $15 over the black mirrors. Mazda's putting them in ES's at no additional charge.

inky · June 2001

I came very close to buying an ES/AUTO/Roof car when dealer had a $100 over invoice and you keep any incentives sale. Sticker was $17,800, quoted price was $16,800 and low financing instead of rebate. I asked about the $570 moonroof credit and they stared at me like I was nuts. That soured the deal since I knew it was a real deal.
I really wanted a 5 speed anyway and am glad they shot themselves in the foot. No 5 speeds available so I picked up a 99 Civic 5 speed for a great price and will drive it until some other Mazda dealer starts getting some inventory for 2002. Why do 5 speeds hardly exist? I have never seen a premium package here in OK.
INKY

peregrine_11 · June 2001

I was surprised at the lack of 5-speeds, as well, when I ordered my Pro (the dealer had tried unsuccessfully to do a dealer locate beforehand).

After I did my order, I was talking with the guy at my dealership who does all the ordering, and asked him why 5-speeds were so scarce. He told me Mazda severely underestimated the demand for 5-speeds; if I remember correctly, I think he told me they'd projected about 30% demand for the manual and it's ended up being about 60%. I don't know if these numbers only apply to my region (I'm in WI) or if they're true across the country.

Anyway, sorry your Pro deal soured.

rnd2 · June 2001

i use mobil-1 oil and filter

ramirja · June 2001

I own a Protege 99 DX and also started experiencing back problems after long commutes everyday. After I read your posting I did not have a clear idea of the reason, but this seems very possible.

fowler3 · June 2001

If you plan on keeping the 99 DX for a while, take it to a trim shop and have them put padding in the lower backrest. It should require only a small addition to correct your back problem.

Mazda seatbacks lack lumbar padding on the lower part of the backrest. Sit in the car and tell the person at the trim shop how much and where you want it, custom-fitted for your back.

Any trim shop or good seat cover place should be able to do this.

It shouldnt be expensive.

fowler3

mazdafun · June 2001

I use either Mobil 1 or Valvoline. Both seem to work fine.

What's noticeable is how much more smoothly the engine starts and runs for the first few minutes with synthetic v. refined crude oil. Most engine wear occurs at start-up as parts may not be covered with sufficient oil, allowing metal-to-metal contact and wear.

It costs more, but you'll be much happier with the way the engine runs. Besides, the cost of the oil pales in comparison to the overall cost of the car.

You may go for longer intervals between oil changes with the synthetic, so get the larger oil filter (Mazda makes large and small...usually the smaller one is sold to DIYers and costs less). The small one is adequate for 3,000 mile intervals, but the oil gets dark quickly after this point, so I figure it's surpassed its capacity.

mazdafun · June 2001

It's just a simple RC timer circuit, with the R being a potentiometer or a bank of resistors. Total cost is probably another $2 for Mazda, probably less than it costs to pre-treat, prime and paint the side-mirror housings.

I'd take a multiple-speed interval wiper over body-color painted side mirror shrouds any day. Besides, the painted mirror shrouds just means two more patches of paint I have to maintain. Matte unpainted black plastic is fine with me.

Of course, the painted side mirror housings are distinctive for this class of vehicles. They haven't done this for several years (my 89 323 has painted side mirrors). Hopefully, they have improved the durability of the paint. The paint on my 323's side mirrors is faded quite badly.

maltb · June 2001

Try Browning Mazda in Cerritos. They have a fairly good reputation.

vocus · June 2001

Just out of curiousity, how tall are you? I am 6'3, and the seatback felt like there was this very hard space in it that poked me in the lower back. It hurt my back alot, especially since I have back trouble anyway (from a car accident 3 years back). Other than the back pain, how has your DX been holding up? Auto. or manual, and how many miles?

nematode · June 2001

I do not use synthetic. I do the first change at 3k and then 7.5k intervals after that with regular dino oil (Pennzoil 10w30). Even if I did 100% city driving I would still only do 5k changes. Unless you are:
1) Doing a lot of street racing
2) Live in near the artic circle for any extended period of time
3) Planning to keep your car more than 10 years
4) Like to tow things
5) Live in a super dusty place
6) Never check your other fluids, filters, pressures, belts, and hoses on your own.
synthetic and/or 3k oil changes are a waste of money (my opnion). If you do your own oil changes the difference is not that bad but I you have your oil changed at the dealer or one of the many quick lube places (like I do) then......its a big chunk of change.

I dont keep my cars more than 10 years or so or about 150k miles. Most people in the US dont keep their cars beyond 10-12 years. The fact remains, I still have not lost a car due to engine failure doing oil change intervals as long as 10k with regular dino oil. Has anyone here lost a car due to engine failure as a direct result of the oil breaking down? Its pretty unlikely. If your engine starts to get sludge and stuff before say 100-150k then it was probably a defect duing assembly or some other factor (bad rings, should have replaced coolant, bad injectors, and so on). There is really no evidence that would suggest shorter oil change intervals or synthetic oil would have extended its life.

In my expereince the transmission usually starts to go around 150k but the engine can run well beyond that on long oil change intervals. I just traded in a 90 Ford Taurus (for my new ES 2.0) with a slipping transmission that still got 28mpg on the highway with 150k+ miles and 6-7.5k changes. Engine was running like a champ. Lost about 1/2qt every 5000 miles or so due to a leakly oil pan gasket. It also passed emissions testing with flying colors 2 days before I traded it in. The car was a warrior....a powder blue mom mobile warrior...but a warrior nonetheless.

So in my case:
10 years/150k miles = 50 changes at 3k intervals. $20 a change = $1000. 20 changes at the 7.5k interval. $20 a change = $400. The difference is $600. So if you have 2 cars (sometimes 3) like we do then the difference is $1200-1800 over the life of the cars. If you are talkng about synth changes then you are looking $69.95 for oil and filter (Mobil-1 Lube, Dorsett Rd. Maryland Heights, MO) but you can do longer drain intervals so....it depends.

With that money ($1200-1800) you can:
1) make 2-4 car payments or 1-2 house payments
2) pay down the principle on higher interest loans/credit cards
3) invest it in a money market, CD, mutual fund
4) put it in your IRA
5) invest in a new transmission
6) blow the money on chicks and booze....or just booze in my case since I'm married.
What every you want.

The real point here is that if you are planning on keeping you car 10 years or so there is no reason to do 3k oil change intervals and no reason to use synthetic oil. I think the 3k interval makes most people feel better. Saving money makes me feel better so 7.5k interval for me. If I did use synthetic I would not start until the warranty was over and then go 25k between changes replacing the filter and topping off every 5-10k or so.

roninjouten · June 2001

And considering this over 10 years the prices will go up on the oil changes.

dannyg · June 2001

Way to go, nematode. I seem to remember reading at http://www.auto.com/ that GM is developing a sensor and dashboard "time to change the oil" light for their cars...to get people to change their oil LESS! Turns out that millions of quarts of oil that are needlessly changed every year.

Personally, I just follow the manual. No more, no less.

maltb · June 2001

"I seem to remember reading at http://www.auto.com/ that GM is developing a sensor and dashboard "time to change the oil" light for their cars...to get people to change their oil LESS!"

I'm sure it exists but Exxon bought the patent in order to do "further" development.

Sporin · June 2001

BMW's and Mercedes have them. Average is between 10 and 15 thousand miles, depending on how, and where, you drive.

nematode · June 2001

That's weird....usually I get killed for my opnion. I tried to get people to see my point in the engine oil #2 forum and the synth forum but it was fruitless. I guess people are pretty set in their ways. Really, it cannot hurt the car (the earth perhaps, but not the car) to change the oil at 3k intervals AND I even concede that its probably better for the car BUT I question if its worth it in the useable life (10-12 years) of the car. Based on my experience its not.

I have my quirks too....
1) I always do the very first oil change at 3k. I must do this first change at the dealer. I guess because it makes me feel better

. You never know the oil could be old or something!!
2) I'm also very aggressive (always early by 10%) with all the other fluid, filter, and other regular maintainance but not the oil.
3) I must check my tire pressure every 3rd tank of gas or if the temp changes drastically. Even in the rain, snow, sleet, hail, I have to check the pressure in all my tires (in both cars). When I find one that low.....its like nirvana to do my husband duty and fill that sucker to where it should be.
4) I must check all the fluids at the end of every month (in both cars). They call to me. Finding a small radiator leak early in my Taurus probably got me an extra 40k miles out it just using some $3 stop-leak once a year. Now thats value!!!

Think of all the cars you have ever owned...how did they die? or how did they become to expensive to maintain?
I've lost cars due to (some in the same car) cooling system, suspension, AC, radiator, lost several transmissions, rust, major leaks, fuel system, electrical gremlins, and lots of other things ......but never the engine. Basically I have come to the conclusion that if you maintain everything around the engine and the engine according to the instuctions you can get to 150k without major problems. 150k is really all I need. After than I want a new car. Dont you? I think that all most people need.

texbean · June 2001

take you to get your ordered Pro? Was the commit date by the dealer close to reality? Thanks.

Larry

mazdafun · June 2001

I agree that if you do oil & filter changes every 3-5k miles, you'll do fine with regular refined crude, and you'll spend less money. No matter how you cut it, you'll spend more using synth.

But there are circumstances in addition to those you listed under which you'll notice a significant difference in performance between synth and crude.

For one, I do notice significant difference in how rough or smooth the engine sounds at start-up if I switch between dino and synthetic oil, especially on my '89 323.

There is also a noticeable difference during the subzero winters we have in OH. Not a problem in the morning after my car's been sitting in the garage all night, but I did have extremely rough starts at the end of the day after my car had been sitting in -20F temperatures for 9-10 hours with regular dino (even the 5W30 stuff) oil. After switching to synthetic, starts were much faster and the engine ran much more smoothly.

Yes, it costs more, but like everything else, if you like the benefits, it's up to you to spend the extra $$$. For me, I like the easier starts, especially during the winter.

Also, if you do your own oil changes, the only difference is about $9 per change (I only have to replace 3 US quarts, and the difference in cost per quart is about $3). Would I pay $70 for someone else to put in synth every 5k-7.5k miles? No way. Do it myself? Yes. It costs less than what is typically charged for regular dino oil & filter changes. I just have to spend 30 minutes of my own time and about $15-16 on supplies.

newcar31 · June 2001

I use synthetic because it costs me almost nothing. I get 50% off of Mobil 1 at work (used to get it for free) which works out to about $1.50 a quart. Not bad. Even when I no longer work there, I will use Mobil 1. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to check your own fluids. Power steering, brake fluid, and coolant/antifreeze can all be checked visually without even touching anything under the hood. What is so hard about that? Manual transmissions are almost never low, and the auto transmission is just a dipstick like the motor oil, but you check it in park with the engine idling. As far as whether synthetic is a better oil or not, that is indisputable. Yeah, dino oil will work fine, but synthetic IS better: superior high temperature protection, higher film stregth, a stable viscosity base, very low tendency to form deposits, MUCH better low temperature flow characteristics, reduced wear and friction, and marginally better fuel economy and engine power (this information is in edmunds own articles too). Whether or not it is worth it to you is your call. I had a customer in today that had an MX6 with 330,000 synthetic miles on it!!! (same 2.0L as some of our protoges, but with a distributor, cap, and rotor, instead of the dual coil packs on our cars) Would it have lasted that long on dino oil? Who knows? By the way, it started up right away and ran very smooth with no "ticking". Inside of the oil fill hole it still had the silver color to the metal (looked like new) instead of the amber/brown color of deposits and varnish that most cars with half the mileage have. And yes, it was the original engine. I'll stick with synthetic, I plan on keeping my car for as long as it will run.

nematode · June 2001

All bets are off if you change your own oil. If I did change my own oil then I would use synth for sure.

I used to live in Maine. I remember those rough starts after a few days outdoors at -20. Still, the Honda and Buick I drove around at the time both got to well over 150k before they were sold. I ran dino oil with long changes then too. The most impressive thing is that neither had block or battery heaters. If you live somehere where it does get really cold....they are FANTASTIC.

newcar31 · June 2001

This is from the June issue of Sport Compact car regarding the power issue and handling of the Protoge. "Our testing showed the MP3 to be faster than our previous FRONT DRIVE BENCHMARK car, the Acura Integra Type-R, through our 700 ft slalom---certainly a product of the large effort spent on making the MP3 a SERIOUS handler". They go on to talk about next year's MP3: "Without giving too much away, one source inside Mazda says that the extra power will come from something that whistles." They gave it all away. Sounds like we will get the Japanese Familia (Protoge) turbo version here in the states in the not too distant future. Hmmmm.....

maltb · June 2001

it could be a supercharged version...who knows?

newcar31 · June 2001

but they already have a turbo version developed and proven, so it makes sense that they would use it. A supercharger makes more of a whining sound than a whistling sound. Who knows though. I guess we could be certain that whatever it is, it will end with "charger".

!!!!! Zooooom Zoooooom sssssssssssst

djmax813 · June 2001

Here is my 2 cents. Your oil is the lifeblood of an engine. Get your first change at 1500 mi., and then every 3000 miles. Reg oil is fine. Your car will zoom zoom forever and like you for it:)

djmax813 · June 2001

Try Browning Mazda in olive oil and serve cerritos on the side. Yum Yum!

fowler3 · June 2001

the first oil change is at 3K miles. For me, thats five months of city driving. I think it should be changed at 2000 miles, at least.

As for keeping a car to 150K, never have driven one that long. Usually traded when the warrenty was gone, sometimes sooner, and I have owned 31 cars.

My cousin, a retired dentist, who knows little about maintaining cars, never changes the oil and usually drives 85K a year. Restless, has to be driving with no place in particular to go. May head out to Oklahoma and then up to Canada and back home to Virginia. Stops for food, lodging, and gas. And trades cars about every 18 to 20 months.

fowler3

rnd2 · June 2001

it isn't hard to get 18 to 20 months out of a new car without ever changeing the oil but whoever buys your cousins car will pay for his lack of care down the road, if you only keep a car a very short time all you have to do is put gas in the car and go

vocus · June 2001

I only kept my 1999 DX for 19 months (and 37.4K) but still did all the regular maintenance on it. Keeping a car a short time is no reason not to do the maintenance on it.

I am having a little trouble with my 2001 ES already. The car has been in the shop 2 times already for its alignment being off. Now, when stopping, I feel a slight pulsation in the brake pedal. Guess that means the rotors are warped and need replacing/machining. Also, my driver's seat squeaks like hell now, because the dealer refuses to replace the bottom cushion. Looks like the newness is starting to wear off...

I have exactly 7500 miles right now, and averaging a constant 24-26 mpg with automatic.

chikoo · June 2001

the difference between a supercharger and a turbocharger?

and BTW ,the new MP3 could be with a rotary

chikoo · June 2001

what is the RPM in a 2001 proES2.0L at 70mph
or what is the speed at 3000 rpm?

is it the same as 99-00 models or different?

jstandefer · June 2001

When you say "the shop" you mean the dealership, right? Alignment and warped rotors are all covered under the 12m/12,000 adjustment warranty. I'm sure you know that, but I just wanted to throw it out there for everyone. For everyone with a new car... watch you tires very carefully for the 1st year and/or 12,000 miles. Look for signs of misalignment (cupping, uneven wear). It's common for a new vehicle, after ship, rail, and/or truck transport, to have bad alignment. Mine did and I had it fixed under warranty.

maltb · June 2001

Have they told you why they won't replace the seat cushion? I would be all over them and calling Mazda about the problem.

Just for fun, check your tire pressure. Also, the second time you took it in for the alignment, did they do anything?

peregrine_11 · June 2001

Larry,

My dealer never gave me a solid commit date, just the vague "6-8 weeks" timeframe.

I ordered my Pro on Friday, March 30 and picked it up on Saturday, May 26, though it was ready to be picked up on the 24th. So, it ended up being right around eight weeks.

However, I have heard people have been waiting as long as three months to get one, so I suppose I didn't have it too bad...those eight weeks felt like forever, though.

hkchan · June 2001

"what is the RPM in a 2001 proES2.0L at 70mph or what is the speed at 3000 rpm?"
ES2.0 & LX2.0
At 70 mph (+/- 25 rpm):
3,050 rpm (5-sp manual)
2,775 rpm (4-sp auto)

At 3,000 rpm (+/- 0.5 mph)
69.0 mph (5-sp manual)
75.5 mph (4-sp auto)

vocus · June 2001

Malt: They told me they could not get the seat to squeak when they ride in it. I offered to drive the car with them in it, but they rushed me out the door before I got a chance to drive it. The second time I took the car back for its alignment, they reset it (changed the camber, the paper said). I don't think they ever checked the tire pressure though, but I will when I go home today.

Jerry: Yes, I meant the dealership. I know it's all covered under the 12/12 warranty. My roommate's Neon had its brakes replaced at 10K, and other friend had the same with a Jeep he used to have. I know everything on the car is covered for the first 12/12.

Chan: How are you getting 75.5 mph with the 2.0 at 70? Mine only runs 70 mph when doing 3000 rpm, but I have the automatic. I also run 3500 rpm at 80 mph, 4000 at 90. It seems to increase 500 rpm for every 10 mph, with automatic anyway.

hkchan · June 2001

My numbers are from gear ratios and tire size. A minor error has been corrected. I don't know why they don't match mine either. Going back to the "drawingboard".

ES2.0 & LX2.0
At 70 mph (+/- 25 rpm):
3,075 rpm (5-sp manual)
2,825 rpm (4-sp auto)

At 3,000 rpm (+/- 0.5 mph)
68.0 mph (5-sp manual)
74.5 mph (4-sp auto)

nematode · June 2001

Its at 5500rpm at 110mph. But driving that fast would be against the law

).

newcar31 · June 2001

Both of them force feed air to your engine, making more power in the process. A supercharger is a compressor that is belt driven. A turbocharger is a turbine that is powered by exhaust gases. Generally, a supercharger makes power right away, and a Turbo "lags". With a turbocharger, the smaller it is, the less lag time you have because it doesn't take as much time to "spool" up, but it makes less overall peak power (think VW 1.8T jetta). With a larger turbo, you get more lag time, but much more peak power (think Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo). Turbos generally make more peak power than superchargers, but with a supercharger, the power is there almost instantly as opposed to a turbo. To help offset the lag associated with a large turbo, some cars have two turbos, one small one to kick in right away, and one big one to give you a giant kick in the butt in the high RPMs. (Supra TT) I am not sure, but I think that the RX7's twin turbos kick in at the same time which would create a non linear power delivery and a very explosive burst of power when they do spool up. I have driven many turbo cars and IMO, I like them better than supercharged cars. I drove my buddies eclipse once and it has a giant aftermarket turbo. It has no guts in the low rpms, but once that giant turbo spools up, it feels like it is going to break your neck and has the meanest, loudest, shriek that I have ever heard this side of a turbo diesel Peterbuilt chugging up a Rocky mountain pass.

newpro4me · June 2001

Have the dealership check the runout of the brake rotors. A lot of vehicles appear with this problem after 7-10K miles. The lateral runout of the rotor(s) may have been out of spec when the car was new and the problem is just now showing up.

merrymex · June 2001

The dealer is trying to sell me an MP3 at 2000 over MSRP claiming the scarcity of the vehicle is hiking up the price everywere. Has anyone else heard anything like this before with the MP3? This would be my first Mazda.

fowler3 · June 2001

wait for the replies tomorrow.

Many dealers don't have them yet.

fowler3

protegextwo · June 2001

I could not make it to the chat last night. We needed to make it, to a family function.

-Larry

Sporin · June 2001

They are only making somehting like 1200 MP3's so they are indeed scarce. I seem to remember reading an article at one of th eauto sites (www.auto.com maybe?) that said that all the MP3's were presold already.

texbean · June 2001

Thanks for the info.

Larry

vocus · June 2001

I put my car in the shop for an oil change this morning, and I am going synthetic. Is it true that synthetic oil will last longer, so I don't have to change it as much? The person at the shop said something to that affect, but I wanted to ask for a second opinion. So what do you all think?

Also, I asked Goodyear to check the rotors for slight pulsation. I will see what they say, since my dealer is a complete jerk. Place was great during the sale, but their service sucks. I will tell them this in the next survey they send me too.

maltb · June 2001

see my response on the problems board:
maltb "MAZDA PROTEGE PROBLEMS" Jun 8, 2001 8:10am

vocus · June 2001

Edmund's did the "First Drive" of the Mazda Protege5. Check out their homepage for the story. I would link it, but don't know how. Sorry.

chikoo · June 2001

The Mazda gets a 2.0-liter 130-horsepower engine, which is sufficient to move the 5's 2,716 pounds with reasonable authority while meeting ultra-low emission vehicle standards. Problem is, the grumbling four-cylinder DOESN'T LIKE TO REV, producing LOTS OF NOISE AND VIBRATION as the tachometer climbs. It doesn't smoothly zing toward redline, a characteristic that always puts a smile on the face of an enthusiastic driver

jstandefer · June 2001

...this is exactly what I feared. The 2.0L in the 626 is not a very happy engine when the revs climb. The 1.8L in the '99-'00 Protege was much better in that respect, but still pales in comparison to the 1.8L used in the '90-'98 Protege. That Miata-based 1.8L was an absolute gem to rev. Oh well... at least with the new torque abundance, the engine doesn't need to spend a lot of time in the upper rev range.

edmund2460 · June 2001

I like to change my oil/filter myself. Can't seem to find the filter on the ES. Can anyone tell me where to look? Can I do this without a ramp? Thanks.

Mazda Protegé

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