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Mazda Protege Basic Maintenance Questions
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Comments
Why does it do so?
I have noticed that it does not do it when you start the a/c but does it if you have the a/c on for about 15 minutes or so. Like Jerry said, all the ES do it.
My question is WHY?
It is so annoying.
Would appreciate your efforts in this matter.
What could be happening is that when the compressor disengages, the engine speed goes even higher momentarily before the computer can correct for decreased load.
If it is really noticeable, have the dealer inspect it, but this may just be a characteristic of the car. The only parts involved in this system are the PCM(computer) and the IAC(idle air control) valve, but there would most likely be other issues if either on failed.
WHY?
The jolt feels like someone has just lightly rear-ended you. It's not just a simple jerk like you feel in other cars, but it seems that if you didn't have a foot on the brake, it would cause the car to roll forward slightly. I have watched the engine while it does this, and the engine physically torques on its mounts. You can see the engine twist and even the open hood shakes.
I've had it checked by the dealer, and they said it is normal. Like I've said before, all of the ES's I have driven, sold, or checked-in do this. I have actually lost a few sales because of this.
Another problem I have noticed is the idle. Occasionally (once a month), the idle becomes really rough and you can see the tach needle bouncing up and down. I have revved the engine in hopes that it will correct itself when it idles down, but it doesn't. It seems the only way to correct this is to turn off the engine and restart it. Once I do this, everything goes back to normal. I knew I smelled trouble when I saw that the ECM is produced by Intel, but then again, I'm a Mac fan...
No Problem.. It's normal.
The big question for me is WHY?
(once I know the why...the solution for that would be also available...)
I haven't taken a close look at the compressor pulley, but I would imagine it is spring-loaded for smooth engagement much like a clutch disc is. Perhaps the spring pressure is too hard for idle speeds, as its engagement is hardly noticable at any engine speed about idle.
ughh, not mad, just annoyed. And now that the covers are gone, I'm considering installing the OEM foglights, anybody know a dealership around DC/MD/VA area that does it cheap?
The engine idle is based on feedback system. it does not think in future. so the moment it senses the load, the speed goes up...but alas...we already felt the jolt.
How's my theory?
does not the low/high pressure sensors check the a/c charge pressure before engaging the clutch?
or maybe there are no low/high pressure sensors in the PRO ES.
Maybe it just cycles every 18 seconds...no matter what the pressures are.
Steve
I don't know what to tell you about the jolt. It's hard enough for a tech to diagnose the thing when they are looking at car, much less for a guy who sits behind a desk and has not gotten his hands dirty on a regular basis for a few years now. If I get a good answer, I'll keep you posted.
First noticed it the other day and thought it was coming from the sunroof or perhaps the antenna mast. However, I'm able to reproduce the sound at will when on the highway at 3400 RPM (in top gear). Releasing gas pedal pressure diminishes the whistle, increasing pressure brings it back at a very discernable pitch (mostly at 3400 rpm). Almost sounds like a turbo charger but not as pleasing.
Today I tried to reproduce the whistle at lower speeds (in lower gear by turning overdrive off) and at same rpm and sure enough it's there too but not as pronounced.
Any ideas?
Dave
btw, vehicle is an '01 Protegé ES Automatic
I know it's not only me, Jerry also confirms this.
please let us know if it is a pressure switch problem...a wrong one bieng specified may cause it.
I have heard whistling sounds generated by the speakers at certain rpm's in other vehicles (not Pro's). A good noise filter near the radio typically takes care of this...
I called the body shop and I get my car back today!! I am sooo happy!!! Now, watch them call and say they have to keep it for some stupid reason again. I will cry.
you will see what I am trying to convey.
IF you don't observe the jolt in the DX, then something is wrong with the design of the a/c system of the ES.
the car is jumping around as if somebody is kicking it .....
chikoo: don't think it's associated with the gearing, though it may be possible.
theparallax: definitely not happening at low speeds or rpms, only on the highway!
vocus: so you too have heard it? Good to know I'm not imagining it! (ps - hope the car is returned better than new!)
jstandefer: don't think the sound may be generated from the speakers (audio system is turned off) but I'll pay them more attention next time I experience (test) it - thanks.
Others:
The whine seems to be a trans characteristic that the '99 and later Proteges come with at no extra charge. I believe it's related to the final drive/differential. There was a production change later in '99 but I think it only reduced the noise slightly.
by the way, your statement "I think it just an issue of a smaller 4cyl. under increasing loads at idle." does not apply to similiar or less powerful corolla or a civic. Why?
what say maltb,jstandefer?
Why don't you guys talk to Mazda and get a TSB published?
Chikoo:
Your best bet is to make a big stink with the dealer and Mazda customer assistance(800-222-5500). Be persistent and convince the dealer that they call Mazda technical assistance on this issue. Your best bet would have been to do all this when the vehicle was a little newer and the threat of lemon law worked in your favor.
Good luck to you!
all 1999-2000 ES (and their owners) have this problem...which is confirmed by none other than Jerry.
So Jerry, what do you say?
and vocus, try it for a longer period of time and let us know the result.
I know a few of the Mazda Master Technicians at the dealership. Let me give them a call and see if they know anything about it. I'll also talk to one of the two service managers as well.
The good majority of the complaints have come from '99-'00 ES owners, with just a sprinkling of DX and LX owners. Their explanation of it: it is really hard to mask the compressor engagment on small 4-cyl engines. However, they could not explain why it is so jolting on the 1.8L and not the 1.6L. It's just a characteristic of that AC system and engine, I was told at the end. They also said they haven't seen frequent AC failures with the 1.8L.
I would imagine it would have to be further investigated by Mazda corporate or regional offices. Let me talk to the service manager and see when a Mazda rep will be at the dealership next (about twice a month). I'll ask them about it.
or the min. pressure at which the compressor engages is much higher than what the engine can take?
So to answer your question in a roundabout way, yes the A/C on the ES is different for your model year. However, I'd take the factory system over the port installed.
anyway, factory installed or not, my question was is it more powerful in the ES(larger capacity) than in DX/LX?
Is that the reason that the engine jolts as the a/c pressure charge is more than what the engine can handle at idle (700-750 rpm) ?
I don't have the engineering specs on either system, but I would imagine that both were designed to meet the same needs. I think the ES compressor is made by Denso and the LX/DX is a Sanden unit. Other than that, research into loads, capacities and efficiencies would be a full time job and not my area expertise.