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Mercedes-Benz CLK (2005 and earlier)

145791031

Comments

  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...simply isn't going to happen anytime soon, and by this I mean the next 2+ model years. The whole point behind this model is to hit a price-point that is new to MB in this country. Moving it "upmarket" at this stage is pointless, especially since the gurus in the business think DB is taking a big risk in offering this car in the first place. This is a long discussion, some of which we have had here and in the C-Class forum, but suffice to say that you will get very blue in the face holding your breath for a different engine in this car for the forseeable future.

    What will happen is that drivetrain evolution is inevitable with Mercedes. They are working on new direct injection heads for the V modular engine family, and will do similar things for the 4s. Eventually the 4s will get a new aluminum block [the four we get is the last of the iron blocks among MB gas engines]; this was supposed to have happened already, but the all-alum 4 cyl engine project collapsed a couple of years ago, and it has been slow-going since. None of these observations changes the likelihood of a more powerful V6 in the US Coupe - chances are slim to none.
  • ccoupe1ccoupe1 Member Posts: 2
    I ordered my 230 several weeks ago and the dealer said i should have it in late October the delay was the mad cow thing, i surely hope they arnt much longer than that as my current lease on my car will be over i dont want to be carles. Does any one have any latest answers to this.

    Also does any one have any pictures of the door sills thing on the C7 package as i ordered this without seeing them. Please help
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    I tried to build a C coupe on the MB USA site and when I pick certain colors, it indicates that there is an additional $1000 for ordering due to color. Is that true? The only color that did not do this is White, everything else has the $1000 addition.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Member Posts: 802
    Just came across this article in today's News/Auto Headlines that I thought some of you might find interesting: Take a test drive of a Mercedes or Saab without going to the dealer. Happy Motoring!


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  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    No, it is not true. Only certain color and upholstery combinations incur the $1k special charge. From the brochure, let me cite some examples of all three types of combinations:

    No extra charge:Black, White, Magma Red [586], with any standard interior.

    Metallic Paint [typically $635 or so]: Obsidian, Orion Blue, Paprika, Bordeaux Red, Silver [744] with any standard interior [see the brochure for what is considered a standard interior combination - any that has a black box filled in]

    Special Order [$1000 - $1635, depending on whether the nonstandard combination is with or without metallic paint]: Everything else on the pallet, including some that are available as "std" but include a non-std interior, e.g. the combination of Magma Red [a no-cost exterior color] and Oyster [a non-standard interior color for this car] would incur the $1k charge. Picking a combination like Capri Blue [359] would add both the $1k AND the $635 metallic, whichever interior you pick.

    Confusing? Well, sure. The only way to decode all this is with the '02 C-Class brochure, which lists all of the "standard" combinations and all of the special order combos. This year, the only exterior paints that cost you nothing are black, white, or magma red [code 586]. Everything else incurs at least the charge for metallic paint, and then escalates from there if it is a non-standard combination.

    And as I have said, and will say again, the Website is full of these kinds of errors, and cannot be depended upon for much of anything. See your friendly dealer, and hope your salesman is smart enough to know what's right, or at least can find the order guide without a dog's assistance.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    To compound the problem, when I went to order the '02 C-Class brochure online, the website wanted to sign me up for the '01, of which I already have at least three copies. I got the '02 at the dealership over two weeks ago, while the webmaster claims it "isn't available online yet, but they would be happy to put me on a list".

    Beware the website - the prosecution rests...
  • kbgillskbgills Member Posts: 1
    I am very interested in the Tire Package because I like the look of the bigger wheel and the color coded door handles.

    But I have been told the tires may need replaced every 10,000 miles (at a cost of $1,300), the rider will be rougher and there will be more road noise.

    All sound like negatives. Is the C7 package worth it? Has anyone driven a car with the C7? I primarily drive in town.

    Also, the tires seem to have a speed rating of up to 150 or 180 mph. When replacing the tires, could you get replacements with a lower speed rating and that won't wear out as fast?

    KG
  • suprchrgdsuprchrgd Member Posts: 8
    Finally MB updated there MBUSA.com site with new info on the 2002's.

    I wouldn't necessarily rely on all the info there tho... according to the site you can't have leather interior and the bose premium sound. It hasn't been up long and some of those $1000 combinations are definitely wrong and they forgot to add the C5 premium package also. I'm sure they will get the detail worked out soon tho.

    And KBgills... The ride will be a little firmer tho with 17" rims and the lower profile on the rubber but you get the bonus of better handling (which could lead to replacing the tires at 10k miles if you really love to take the corners) But really the tires should last atleast 50k+ miles or more with minimal care and responsible driving.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Member Posts: 2,228
    The ride will be a little firmer and possibly slightly louder with the 17" wheels. You should get more like 30-40K out of the tires if you rotate them often. I would not expect anymore than 40k as low profile large performance tires do not last as long as touring tires (especially when driven in the city). You can always switch to a different brand tire that lasts longer or is cheaper once the originals wear out. And you can definitely switch to a lower speed rating. H-rated tires would be plenty unless you plan on driving over 130 mph.
  • skijazmanskijazman Member Posts: 3
    I live in New England and have had mostly front wheel or 4 wheel drive vehicles over the past few years. But, I loved the new C-Coupe when I drove it and I ordered one. My question is: How effective are ESP (Electronic Stability Program) and ASR (Automatic Slip Control)in snow? Also, do you have to adjust your driving to compensate for them?
  • amattusamattus Member Posts: 4
    Yes! you GTI lover you... Are you the first owner of that GTI? That's a great little car to keep. I gave mine to my Dad when I worked overseas in '89. Broke his heart when I forced him to sell the car 2 years ago. It had a couple of small accidents; not our fault though. The 1st one was being sideswiped while parked in my apt. building. Had to replace the passenger door panel and ever since lost the vacuum you feel when all doors are closed. The seals weren't properly seated. It had 140K miles but it ran like a tank as my dad would say. Repairable problems here and there so we decided to let it go. Anyway, I didn't mean to compare it with C230K. Had the GTI when I was younger. Driving the C230K brings back those laid back memories driving in LA freeways just like in the C230K commercial. Test drove an auto though. Currently, I still drive a '92 Maxima SE stick. I'm leaning towards a C320 V6 Sport and would eventually convert to auto and give the left leg a rest for better golf.

    Thanks for all C230K V6 responses.

    AL
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    So, I guess I have to make a trip to the local MB dealer to get the right info. I also ordered a brochure online and it sent me an email that it was sending me the '01 C-Class brochure :(. I guess I should not trust the website too much.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    The basic problem seems to be that the build-it feature is set up [for the C-class, at least] as if there is no difference between the sedan and coupe on color availability, and what constitutes a special order combination. One glance at the brochure tells you this isn't up to the job.

    Another error [I hope...!] is that if you use the build-it feature for EU delivery, it is adding in the US destination charge as part of the deal, which up until now is the last little $ break you were supposed to get on the factory delivery program. I interpret this as another error, but it could just as easily be another case of DB maximizing revenue, while pretending prices are mostly stable.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Member Posts: 802
    Seems that high fuel prices and the teetering economy have more people looking at smaller cars. So the Wall Street Journal is looking at how small sport sedans are taking over the market.

    They are looking for someone who recently traded in a big luxury car for a smaller one--like a 7-Series for a 3-Series, or a big Jag for the new small one. But they don't want "econoboxes". They're looking at the likes of the 3-Series BMW, C-Class Mercedes and Jaguar X-Type.

    If you fall into this category, please post your comments in the Talk to the Press discussion on the Smart Shopper message board. Or send an email directly to jfallon@edmunds.com.


    Thanks for your participation. ;-)


    Pocahontas
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  • huntzingerhuntzinger Member Posts: 356
    (1) On the CD Changer, MB is using a "Becker" unit. My local (expensive) aftermarket place says it goes for $900 plus installation.


    A quick internet search makes me believe that you might be able to find the Becker unit for somewhere around $500, which is as much as I'm personally willing to pay...as I get older, my ears can no longer hear the difference between CD and FM anyway :-).


    --------------


    (2) A pretty comprehensive price list, for those who haven't seen one yet, is available at this URL:


    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=C230+price+author:%7Brm_to_reply%7Dhummer%40webspan.net&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=3B8250C5.7B9A%40webspan.net


    FWIW, I did get a chance to do a quick and dirty test drive of a C230/automatic a few weeks ago. Overall, it seemed very much like my wife's 2000 Audi A4/1.8t Didn't really have a chance to really push it, to see if it really is a worthy reincarnation of the old VW Scirocco (that I still miss :-)


    --------


    (3) Finally, for the person whose wife found the C230's seat uncomfortable, I'm betting that she's petite.


    For petite drivers, it is absolutely critical to CHECK OUT THE SEAT DEPTH of any car you're considering buying to make sure that the seat isn't too deep/long.


    When the seat cushion is too long, it pushes on the back of the driver's knee and this can be a source of discomfort that can be overlooked on short drives, but will become increasingly uncomfortable the longer the drive is.


    My wife is very petite and she has major car comfort problems because of this...when we replaced her car last year, one of the very few that had a *short* enough seat was the Audi A4. The A4's seat length was ~20" instead of ~22" on most of the rest (including MB). Those extra 2" make a big difference. Carry a tape measure with you car shopping; I'm dead serious.


    A lumbar support can sometimes alleviate this problem by moving your hips forward, thus effectively shortening the seat length, but isn't always viable...it also moves the petite driver closer to the airbag.


    If you're stuck with this problem, some solutions are: OEM sport seats (but measure!), a reupholstery modification job, an aftermarket replacement...or a different make/model of car.


    -hh

  • rockribbedrockribbed Member Posts: 44
    I agree with you on the cd: if I want 'concert hall' sound I'll go to a concert hall and/or go listen to my home unit. Plus the multi-changer units are too much distraction to change cd's; in dash units are better than trunk mounted ones (you tend to never change the mix and the repetition drives you crazy - you never think about the cd's unless you're on a trip, then its too late).

    I'm going to talk up the car and if someone buys one I'm going to my dealer and demand at least a cd, if not a phone. I took off the license plate trim surround with their name on it, and if they ask me about it I'll tell them that I can't give free advertising: give me a cd and I'll proudly put them back on.

    ------

    You're right about the Audi, except the boost is a little smoother and lower in the RPM range. The price, however is another story. The best Audi I was able to find was a LOT more expensive.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    Everyone considering the C230 should glance at the C&D Review in the October 2001 issue. In their closing, they ask "Does this C230 Kompressor earn its sports-coupe moniker? Not really." And I don't think it needs to.

    They go on saying..."But a 30-something hipster drawn to this fetching, affordable, and moderately fun Benz probably won't be lured away by a used car dating to the stuffy strictly business days." Being that I am in that age demographic (although I am not a hipster), I would have to say that they are right on the money. Why would I buy a used Benz or Bimmer if I can buy a brand-new C230 Kompressor that handles better than the C240 and C320 (again, per C&D)?

    C&D pretty much says that if you want a sports coupe, get an Integra (RSX now) or Celica GT-S. But why would I buy those generic cars if I can get a Benz for about $26K? Oh yeah, and they're not a Benz. :)
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Everyone who reads the buff books [I read them all, and have been reading C&D since they were Sports Cars Illustrated] knows that no MB that is not an AMG car will get much respect. These people judge everything based on cornering power and raw speed.

    I am 56, have never been mistaken for a hipster, have owned more enthusiast cars than most of the C&D staff put together [they borrow them, they don't buy them], and I think this car may be MB's best effort in any category outside the new CL. Everyone with eyes has reservations about the rear styling of this car, but that aside, I can't imagine buying an RSX or Celica over this car...and I've owned both Integras and Celicas in my time.

    The magazines have a real tendency to get all wrapped up in analysis about the demographic marketing targets for new cars, because the manufacturers themselves tend to obsess about this nonsense. A good deal of the time, it's hogwash. The marketplace often refuses to behave the way the marketing majors predict it will...I'm as much proof of that as you need. I think this is an excellent car, and certainly the best raw value in the MB line.
  • tommyp13tommyp13 Member Posts: 146
    Of course, I've got a '90 crx si, which has an eerily similar rear-end treatment. I wonder if anyone at MB used the crx's rear end as a model for how to allow a little more view out of the rear area.

    Anyway, I usually like C&D's reviews, and are usually on-target with mine. I hate the editorials, especially Brock Yates, whose ego is as big as the great outdoors. As has been said several times, the rsx and gt-s are different animals than the c230. Try fitting anyone over 5 feet tall into the celica's front seat, and anyone over 4 feet into either car's rear "seat". I really think that the c230 is more practical and more well-rounded than either of the other two.

    BTW: I'm 35, so I fit one part of the demographic, though the "hipster" part I don't think anyone wants to be in. Why do they throw these silly words into reviews anyway? Remember when the first reviews came in on the New Beetle, and the word "groovy" was passed around more than Monica Lewinsky at a keg party? They should stick more to car talk and less to describing demographics.
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    I actually own a C320 Sport. Geez... if I knew the coupe was going to be this good... I'd have bought two! What a bargain!! My wife LOVES it and though the rear is controversial, the front looks BETTER than the C320 sedan (IMHO). The car has PLENTY of pep (feels like a six). MB did a good job of making this engine sound a bit less agricultural. Granted there are fours out there that are smoother but I LOVE the way it sounds now. The coupe seems to corner flatter than the sedan and feels a bit more nimble even though the weight difference between the two is negligible. I was fortunate enough to get the last one with leather. I also sprung for the CD changer (ripoff), automatic, sunroof and cold weather package. I still think $30k is a great deal for this car. After I drove home, I had to move my C320 and granted it's smoother but I can't justify the $13,000 premium of my sedan over the coupe . It makes NO SENSE. Overall, it's the same car!! I also LOVE the hatch and it looks fantastic in white!!! Enjoy your cars!!
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    Even after reading the article, I am still interested in the C230. Like I said, the two other cars they mentioned do not carry the same panache as a Benz.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    My enthusiasm for this car revolves as much around the simple fact that it is a hatchback, and the most affordable MB to boot. We have needed for some time, on at least a couple of occasions a year, the ability to carry something that will not fit in the trunk, folding seats or no folding seats. The C wagon starts in the real world at $40k, because of the silly decision to only offer it with the 3.2 engine...so the C230 Coupe looks pretty good to me as a wagon alternative.

    In this context, all the hoo-hah about its handling, or sportiness, or lack thereof, or whatever, is just wind to me. That they aimed the car at a part of the market that is notoriously fickle is a marketing problem [or opportunity], but there will be others like me who look on the car as a practical, economical alternative to their sedans.

    Having owned MBs since 1968, the "prestige" angle doesn't cut much with me...I got over that 20 years ago. To me, the superior safety engineering and promise of long mechanical life, combined with good long-distance touring comfort, is the reason to keep considering these cars. On this level, the least amount of bucks to get the benefits is in the Coupe.
  • paul_ppaul_p Member Posts: 271
    Yes, John - Many times I wanted to carry something home in my '95 C220 and had to stuff it cross-wise into the passenger compartment, being careful not to damage the MB-Tex. This is why I chose a '00 C230 with fold down rear seats - and I think that the C230 hatchback would be even better. But since I also have an old Toyota pickup now, it's less of an issue. Still nice though when I find something while cruising for antiques out in the C.

    I fully agree with you on why to keep considering M-B cars. Although I find Toyota and Honda vehicles also very well-built, I really enjoy the solidness of the M-B product and hope that trait continues for years to come.
  • rockribbedrockribbed Member Posts: 44
    I have no problem with the rear of the my C230, it looks like a refined Honda as mentioned in an earlier post. The problem is with the rear flank. If the designers had increased the wheel arch in the rear to match the front it would be spot on.

    I've had mine for almost a month now, have had to work too much filling in for a colleague on a long vacation, so have not had the chance for a long road trip. That is the only test she has not had the opportunity in which to shine. She has passed all other tests with flying colors. The best new car I have ever owned and the last one!
  • winfredwinfred Member Posts: 11
    Never go to the Downtown LA Motor to check out the car, it was an insult when I went in today for a test drive, I had waited for 15mins, no one served me, I need to ask someone for service.

    Someone called robert served me for 5 mins,when I just say I want a test drive, but probably won't buy or order today, he says he will ask someone to help me, so I waited another 10mins, but nothing happen.

    Then I go to talk to him, he says he is serving the other customer "with appointment" right now, cannot help me anymore, it just a waste of my time.

    I know I look young and I am an Asian, but I should not be served like that, I felt like ignored and stupid, never mind, this is just a little story wanted to share with you guys
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    It is a Mercedes, after all.

    Come on, honestly- you walked into a Mercedes dealership, tell them that you just want to test drive the car with no intention of buying it- did you really expect them to wait hands on knees on you?

    It's a Mercedes dealership- people who buy Mercedes (at least in theory) range from upper-middle-class to downright wealthy. The C230 may cost "only" $26,000, but for that amount of money someone else could buy a minivan or a bigger family sedan- this car is certainly no bargain on the table, either.

    You may be upset with your dealership experience- but let's face it- money talks. And if you appear to have none, well you basically don't have a voice.
  • onie1onie1 Member Posts: 6
    I've had my C-Coupe about three weeks now and i LOVE it. I just purchased a set of 18" Brabus Monoblock V and i'm expecting them to arrive tuesday. i'd rarely use the trunk to haul stuff since my wife drives a Passat Wagon.
  • mdmetzmdmetz Member Posts: 27
    You may be upset with your dealership experience- but let's face it- money talks. And if you appear to have none, well you basically don't have a voice.
    I don't think Winifred said she didn't appear as if she doesn't have money; she said she was young and Asian. There is a difference there.

    Moreover, I've read (was it on this board?) that when Mercedes dealers were briefed on this car that it was explained to them that for some buyers it would be their first new car. The average transaction price for a new car these days is just above $23,000, so a young and reasonably well-employed member of the middle-class (not the upper-middle-class), or even the lower-middle-class in cities with high wages and reasonable housing costs, can certainly afford a base Benz that's around $26,500 with tax, title and license. Since Mercedes is looking to attract buyers to the brand with an entry-level model, its dealers are going to have to get used to the idea that the incomes of many buyers, especially after the initial demand from well-heeled Benz enthusiasts with the need for a second car or a big cargo bay is satisfied, isn't going to be horribly high. Besides, the people who are looking at any smallish hatchback are unlikely to be cross-shopping the bigger cars or minivans that you referred to. Not only are they not necessarily going to be old and white, they aren't necessarily going to be presumably straight married types with 2.4 children in some depressing tract in some God-forsaken place like Santa Clarita or Orange County...at least, not considering the natural territory from which Downtown LA M-B is going to draw much of its clientele.

    The salesman has a duty to serve someone with an appointment, and very well may prefer to spend his time with a customer with demonstrated interest, but to say that Winifred has no right to complain about the service she received (whether or not those complaints may have grounds; they seem to, since the promised other assistant didn't come out to replace the first salesman) because she doesn't fit the illusory profile of a Benz customer is nothing but silly (M?)BS. If the personnel at dealers of any car make scare off potential customers on that basis, they're tarnishing the image of that make and most likely missing a few commission-paying sales. Not good for anyone involved, no?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...dealers have an obligation to treat every potential customer with respect and attention. And I note the handle is "Winfred" not "Winifred"; ironically, I suspect a female would actually get better treatment in these circumstances than a male. Regardless of Winfred's sex, race, or belief in aliens, a GOOD dealer knows better than to prejudge anything in a first transaction situation. Yes, it's always better to make an appointment, especially for a weekend visit, but when I occasionally drop in unannounced at our MB store, those people are all over me in 30 seconds, no matter how crowded it is. They always back away politely if I want to be left alone, and in any case I have my regular guy there, but the point is they understand you don't make a sale by ignoring people.

    One more comment: I went shopping for my first MB at 23, in 1968. I wanted to arrange an EU delivery, and the dealer in SF had a good specialist there whom I wanted to work with [in those days, factory delivery was not the well-oiled process it has become]. I too felt the skepticism as I walked in and announced I wanted to test a 220 sedan [the equivalent of the E nowadays], but everyone was too circumspect to voice their doubts out loud. They did ask some carefully veiled questions that were obviously designed to "qualify me" [what was I driving now, how had I heard about them, about MB, what did I know about the car, etc], but when it became clear I was serious, so were they. At the time, they had no way of knowing it was a test, and by passing, they got more of my business over the next 15 years. No dealer deserves you if they are stupid enough to pre-judge on appearance alone...find another one, since in So-Cal in particular, there are lots to choose from.
  • hunterkhunterk Member Posts: 1
    With rear wheel drive, relatively small size and weight, I'm worried about winter driving. Is the ESP effective? Any experience with the C-class in snow? Thanks much.
  • tommyp13tommyp13 Member Posts: 146
    I agree with your post. The most important part being that there are tons of dealer/salesperson combos out there. If you don't get the service that you want from one place, try another. There's no reason to put up with rudeness. But, if the dealership is busy with people who got appointments, take that into consideration as well. Next time, don't tell them that you're not interested in buying one currently.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I didn't imply that winfred should have gotten treated the way she did.

    But the reality is, it's a Mercedes dealership.
    There is prestige and a sense of status symbol associated with this brand.

    You just don't walk into a fancy restaurant, tell the garcon you want to just have a sip of the soup and expect them to offer you a table. And that's exactly what she did.

    And frankly, I don't think it's just a Mercedes dealership. You go to any car dealership and tell the salesperson you just want to test drive the car and have no intention of buying it whatsoever, and I don't think he would be willing to serve you at all, considering the fact that there are other people he could have better success with.
  • huntzingerhuntzinger Member Posts: 356
    Looking at how to equip the car for winter snows...

    Standard rims are 16", with the 17's the sport option package.

    For snows, 15's would be better...but will they clear the brakes?
  • rockribbedrockribbed Member Posts: 44
    Bad idea! Assuming that the rims will clear the brakes, you'll have to go to a 70 or even 78 aspect ratio tire to get the proper diameter so that your speedometer will register properly. And with all the electronics (the speedo is not mechanical) plus the FSS system I suspect you might end up with a mess. Also don't forget ground clearance, the Coupe is lowered at least a half inch if not a full inch in the rear.

    I guess you could get a dealer to find a tire with a similar circumference in a 15" wheel but why bother? Just get a pair of 16" rims for any C class Benz (I guess the bolt pattern is the same) and mount a pair of Blizac or similar performance snow tire and store them in the summer.
  • quickbquickb Member Posts: 3
    Diploid, my experience with a local MB dealership was exactly the opposite of Winfred's. I am a first car buyer, and fit the profile of the C230 audience. By treating me right in this purchase, my local dealership has established a future relationship that will mutually benefit both parties. To say that we should accept rude, degrading service as the status quo for MB would be contrary to the corporate objective of obtaining young, first time buyers. If you are correct in your statement, the rude dealership will certainly fall behind corporate standards and objectives as outlined by their entry into the first time buyer market segment. That being said, I would never tell a dealer that I wasn't going to buy a car when a walk into the showroom. You still need to play the game.

    I pick up my new Coupe tomorrow.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    I agree that there are plenty of excellent alternatives out there for winter tires to use on 16" wheels...no reason to go to 15s. Tire Rack and others will shortly begin marketing seriously their various tire/wheel packages for the winter...go to the web site or watch their ads in the magazines.
  • crvolscrvols Member Posts: 23
    I just ordered Michlien Pilot Alpins for my c230 sport coupe. Got a set of Mille Miglia 16" chrome rims for $109 each on sale. The whole deal is $950 delivered from Tire Rack. Tried my local Town Fair Tire and they were $50 higher per tire. Based on comments I read from the Tire Rack survey, these should do the trick coupled with traction control and the transmission "winter" mode.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    That was the main reason why winfred got treated the way she did- she told them that she didn't want to buy the car. Of course they're not going to treat her well. Why should they cater to her when they can have better luck with someone else?

    By telling them that she has no intention of buying it, it leaves them with this first impression of her:

    First time buyer- no credit, no money.

    They weren't judging her by her age, her looks or her race- they based their opinion on that one sentence alone. You may have had a better experience with your Mercedes dealership because you didn't tell them that you didn't want to buy their car. Of course they'll treat you right.

    I never said that Mercedes dealerships were rude or that they're supposed to be rude. I said that it was a luxury marque showroom that will cater to its preferred customers.

    My comment to winfred was never meant to incite such negative views from fellow posters.

    I just found it rather naive for someone to walk into a Mercedes dealership, tell them that she doesn't want to buy their car but would like to test drive it, and expect them to actually treat her like their other customers. And then to go online and slander the dealership, saying that it sucked and warning people not to go there.

    I've already explained myself twice regarding this, I'm not going to take up more space.
  • mdmetzmdmetz Member Posts: 27
    To quote Winfred's post:
    Someone called robert served me for 5 mins,when I just say I want a test drive, but probably won't buy or order today [emphasis added], he says he will ask someone to help me, so I waited another 10mins, but nothing happen.
    Note that she certainly didn't say that she absolutely wasn't going to buy the car, and somehow I suspect even S class buyers will go to more than one dealer, not to mention take a test drive to compare the S to a 7 series or a Lexus LS430. So she was being honest with the guy, not to mention a little defensive against common high-pressure tactics. Even when I'm serious about buying a car, I'm certainly not stupid enough to tell the salesman that I've got the money burning a hole in my pocket to do so. (And although I misspelled her ID in my first post, at least I read what she wrote - do your critical reading skills need some honing?)

    Moreover, at $26,000, this car isn't that expensive (certainly not by standards of incomes and consumption levels in Los Angeles), and lots of young buyers can qualify for a lease, even if they don't have the cash for a purchase down payment. (Who's out there buying RSXes, Celicas and Eclipses - the cars that Mercedes mentions as competitors in its comparison charts - in this price bracket, anyway?) Therefore, the assumption that young buyers necessarily mean low incomes and poor credit (and we don't know how young Winfred is, or how young she appears) isn't one that should be made by a dealer who is trying to sell cars to young buyers.

    If the salesman had a customer with an appointment, then obviously he should serve that customer first. If there's no one else available to help, then he shouldn't say that there is someone, and should offer to make an appointment at another time when it's convenient for both of them. Lying to a potential customer isn't good business, though, and if she decides that she wants the car, she will be visiting one of LA's many other Benz dealers. Here's hoping Robert made a commission on his appointment.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    I'm betting Winfred is HE, not SHE...and I too do not plan to repeat why I think that should make no difference.

    And I note Winfred has decided not to come back to the board to pursue this...maybe the rest of us should move on, as well.
  • huntzingerhuntzinger Member Posts: 356
    Let's start with the basics:

    For external wheel circumferences:

    225/45R17 = 205/55R16 = 195/65R15 = 185/75R14

    With all of these, the speedometer calibration will be correct (or close enough), vehicle ground clearance will not be changed, and control systems such as ABS will not be affected because there is no difference in wheel rotation speed, because their diameters and circumferences have not been changed.

    Assuming all other factors equal for things such as rubber compound, tread design and sidewall stiffness, what does change with the tires' profiles is its dry road performance and its winter driving performance.

    Pretty much everyone knows that wide, low profile tires provides superior dry road handling performance, although the ride will be harsher.

    What people don't necessarily know is that for winter driving, a narrow, skinny tire performs better because it has higher a ground pressure, which gives it the propensity to "dig down through" the snow surface for traction, whereas a big summer tire will tend to "float" on top of the snow and not provide traction. It is by this basis that ski's and toboggans function.

    As far as other systems, a larger minimum tire rim diameter allows a manufacturer to fit larger brakes and improve stopping performance and reduce brake fade. But having the room doesn't mean that a manufacturer must use it. For example, I highly doubt that the optional 17" wheel package includes different brakes than standard.

    Personally, I'd prefer to have a 15" snow over a 16", assuming that its inside diameter clears the C230's brakes. Not only are the 15's less expensive, but they perform better in snow. I can live with the reduced handling performance for the ~3 months that they'll be on the car.

    -hh
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I don't mind you defending your argument, but if you're going to turn it into a blood bath ("And although I misspelled her ID in my first post, at least I read what she wrote - do your critical reading skills need some honing?")
    then you can have fun posting about this as much as you like because I'm not going to respond to someone who's more inclined to insulting, rather than discussing, the issue with the other party.
  • tommyp13tommyp13 Member Posts: 146
    I hope that today's events put things in their proper perspective. There's really no reason to get nasty on this forum (something that I have to check myself on every so often).

    Having said that, I still have to make a comment on the dealership (I know, I'm a hypocrate) - if you don't like the service where you are looking, go somewhere else. It shouldn't be that difficult to find another dealer in almost any area of the country.
  • tommyp13tommyp13 Member Posts: 146
    In case anyone has not seen pics of the C7 package or the color Orion, my car is coming in next week, and I'll be throwing in some pics in my photopoint account, and posting a link here.

    Ordered on July 26th, so this is pretty fast; about a month faster than I originally had thought.
  • tariktarik Member Posts: 344
    ...in case you wanted to know: http://www.brabus.com/news/news07e.htm


    Tarik

  • eman5eman5 Member Posts: 110
    how much for one of those brabus monsters? where can i get one?
  • jbreez1jbreez1 Member Posts: 46
    Just tripped onto the C230 by accident. Have been looking for a sports coupe/sedan for a few months. Have checked out and driven the WRX, 323, Acura CL, Audi A4, etc. Got tired of looking and not buying and decided that having two boring cars (97 Taurus and 95 Civic) with no payments was probably a good thing, especially with a daughter ready for University of Florida and the present economy.

    Then I decided to peek at Edmunds while killing time on a Friday and somehow ended up in the Mercedes area. I saw C230 hatchback and my interest was peeked. I saw the Edmunds MSRP and the pictures and I immediately began some research. Everything looks good so far.

    Now I'll quit boring you and ask the relevant questions:

    Are people out there able to buy this car for around 27K/

    Is Mercedes getting / asking above MSRP?

    How long to get one?

    Thanx for any info.

    Jbreez
  • djasonwdjasonw Member Posts: 624
    Hey... glad you're interested... as it truly is a unique car. It's no tire screecher by any means but the car is as well poised as any C class (that's a good thing!) for thousands less. I really got lucky and got one with leather, heated seats and sunroof. I just wish I could drive it more but it's mainly my wife's daily driver. I understand that these cars are hard to find (especially with leather) and they sell for MSRP. I don't know any dealers selling above MSRP. That would be a travesty.
  • tommyp13tommyp13 Member Posts: 146
    As the previous post said, you should be able to get one for MSRP, and maybe get the dealer to throw in the cd changer if you're lucky.

    If you build your own on the MB website, you can configure the car to around $27k, but it'll be pretty much stripped.

    If you order a cloth one, it should take about 8-12 weeks. I ordered mine on July 26th, and am picking it up tomorrow. Now, if you want leather, that's a different story. There are a couple of posts at mbworld.org that say that people have just gotten confirmation of MB scheduling leather for production, with delivery here around Thanksgiving. Of course, if you go in now and want leather, you will end up at the end of the line, so I don't know how long the c230 leather order backlog is.
  • jbreez1jbreez1 Member Posts: 46
    Thanx for the info. I'm going to start doing some serious research. The girls (wife and daughter) like the car from pics i have shown them. We're going to take a look at some real ones this week. The wait for an order will probably be okay as we can afford to wait. I'll keep you guys posted.

    Thanx,

    Joe
This discussion has been closed.