Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Mercedes-Benz CLK (2005 and earlier)
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
What will happen is that drivetrain evolution is inevitable with Mercedes. They are working on new direct injection heads for the V modular engine family, and will do similar things for the 4s. Eventually the 4s will get a new aluminum block [the four we get is the last of the iron blocks among MB gas engines]; this was supposed to have happened already, but the all-alum 4 cyl engine project collapsed a couple of years ago, and it has been slow-going since. None of these observations changes the likelihood of a more powerful V6 in the US Coupe - chances are slim to none.
Also does any one have any pictures of the door sills thing on the C7 package as i ordered this without seeing them. Please help
Pocahontas
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
No extra charge:Black, White, Magma Red [586], with any standard interior.
Metallic Paint [typically $635 or so]: Obsidian, Orion Blue, Paprika, Bordeaux Red, Silver [744] with any standard interior [see the brochure for what is considered a standard interior combination - any that has a black box filled in]
Special Order [$1000 - $1635, depending on whether the nonstandard combination is with or without metallic paint]: Everything else on the pallet, including some that are available as "std" but include a non-std interior, e.g. the combination of Magma Red [a no-cost exterior color] and Oyster [a non-standard interior color for this car] would incur the $1k charge. Picking a combination like Capri Blue [359] would add both the $1k AND the $635 metallic, whichever interior you pick.
Confusing? Well, sure. The only way to decode all this is with the '02 C-Class brochure, which lists all of the "standard" combinations and all of the special order combos. This year, the only exterior paints that cost you nothing are black, white, or magma red [code 586]. Everything else incurs at least the charge for metallic paint, and then escalates from there if it is a non-standard combination.
And as I have said, and will say again, the Website is full of these kinds of errors, and cannot be depended upon for much of anything. See your friendly dealer, and hope your salesman is smart enough to know what's right, or at least can find the order guide without a dog's assistance.
Beware the website - the prosecution rests...
But I have been told the tires may need replaced every 10,000 miles (at a cost of $1,300), the rider will be rougher and there will be more road noise.
All sound like negatives. Is the C7 package worth it? Has anyone driven a car with the C7? I primarily drive in town.
Also, the tires seem to have a speed rating of up to 150 or 180 mph. When replacing the tires, could you get replacements with a lower speed rating and that won't wear out as fast?
KG
I wouldn't necessarily rely on all the info there tho... according to the site you can't have leather interior and the bose premium sound. It hasn't been up long and some of those $1000 combinations are definitely wrong and they forgot to add the C5 premium package also. I'm sure they will get the detail worked out soon tho.
And KBgills... The ride will be a little firmer tho with 17" rims and the lower profile on the rubber but you get the bonus of better handling (which could lead to replacing the tires at 10k miles if you really love to take the corners) But really the tires should last atleast 50k+ miles or more with minimal care and responsible driving.
Thanks for all C230K V6 responses.
AL
Another error [I hope...!] is that if you use the build-it feature for EU delivery, it is adding in the US destination charge as part of the deal, which up until now is the last little $ break you were supposed to get on the factory delivery program. I interpret this as another error, but it could just as easily be another case of DB maximizing revenue, while pretending prices are mostly stable.
They are looking for someone who recently traded in a big luxury car for a smaller one--like a 7-Series for a 3-Series, or a big Jag for the new small one. But they don't want "econoboxes". They're looking at the likes of the 3-Series BMW, C-Class Mercedes and Jaguar X-Type.
If you fall into this category, please post your comments in the Talk to the Press discussion on the Smart Shopper message board. Or send an email directly to jfallon@edmunds.com.
Thanks for your participation. ;-)
Pocahontas
Host
Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards
A quick internet search makes me believe that you might be able to find the Becker unit for somewhere around $500, which is as much as I'm personally willing to pay...as I get older, my ears can no longer hear the difference between CD and FM anyway :-).
--------------
(2) A pretty comprehensive price list, for those who haven't seen one yet, is available at this URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=C230+price+author:%7Brm_to_reply%7Dhummer%40webspan.net&hl=en&safe=off&rnum=1&selm=3B8250C5.7B9A%40webspan.net
FWIW, I did get a chance to do a quick and dirty test drive of a C230/automatic a few weeks ago. Overall, it seemed very much like my wife's 2000 Audi A4/1.8t Didn't really have a chance to really push it, to see if it really is a worthy reincarnation of the old VW Scirocco (that I still miss :-)
--------
(3) Finally, for the person whose wife found the C230's seat uncomfortable, I'm betting that she's petite.
For petite drivers, it is absolutely critical to CHECK OUT THE SEAT DEPTH of any car you're considering buying to make sure that the seat isn't too deep/long.
When the seat cushion is too long, it pushes on the back of the driver's knee and this can be a source of discomfort that can be overlooked on short drives, but will become increasingly uncomfortable the longer the drive is.
My wife is very petite and she has major car comfort problems because of this...when we replaced her car last year, one of the very few that had a *short* enough seat was the Audi A4. The A4's seat length was ~20" instead of ~22" on most of the rest (including MB). Those extra 2" make a big difference. Carry a tape measure with you car shopping; I'm dead serious.
A lumbar support can sometimes alleviate this problem by moving your hips forward, thus effectively shortening the seat length, but isn't always viable...it also moves the petite driver closer to the airbag.
If you're stuck with this problem, some solutions are: OEM sport seats (but measure!), a reupholstery modification job, an aftermarket replacement...or a different make/model of car.
-hh
I'm going to talk up the car and if someone buys one I'm going to my dealer and demand at least a cd, if not a phone. I took off the license plate trim surround with their name on it, and if they ask me about it I'll tell them that I can't give free advertising: give me a cd and I'll proudly put them back on.
------
You're right about the Audi, except the boost is a little smoother and lower in the RPM range. The price, however is another story. The best Audi I was able to find was a LOT more expensive.
They go on saying..."But a 30-something hipster drawn to this fetching, affordable, and moderately fun Benz probably won't be lured away by a used car dating to the stuffy strictly business days." Being that I am in that age demographic (although I am not a hipster), I would have to say that they are right on the money. Why would I buy a used Benz or Bimmer if I can buy a brand-new C230 Kompressor that handles better than the C240 and C320 (again, per C&D)?
C&D pretty much says that if you want a sports coupe, get an Integra (RSX now) or Celica GT-S. But why would I buy those generic cars if I can get a Benz for about $26K? Oh yeah, and they're not a Benz.
I am 56, have never been mistaken for a hipster, have owned more enthusiast cars than most of the C&D staff put together [they borrow them, they don't buy them], and I think this car may be MB's best effort in any category outside the new CL. Everyone with eyes has reservations about the rear styling of this car, but that aside, I can't imagine buying an RSX or Celica over this car...and I've owned both Integras and Celicas in my time.
The magazines have a real tendency to get all wrapped up in analysis about the demographic marketing targets for new cars, because the manufacturers themselves tend to obsess about this nonsense. A good deal of the time, it's hogwash. The marketplace often refuses to behave the way the marketing majors predict it will...I'm as much proof of that as you need. I think this is an excellent car, and certainly the best raw value in the MB line.
Anyway, I usually like C&D's reviews, and are usually on-target with mine. I hate the editorials, especially Brock Yates, whose ego is as big as the great outdoors. As has been said several times, the rsx and gt-s are different animals than the c230. Try fitting anyone over 5 feet tall into the celica's front seat, and anyone over 4 feet into either car's rear "seat". I really think that the c230 is more practical and more well-rounded than either of the other two.
BTW: I'm 35, so I fit one part of the demographic, though the "hipster" part I don't think anyone wants to be in. Why do they throw these silly words into reviews anyway? Remember when the first reviews came in on the New Beetle, and the word "groovy" was passed around more than Monica Lewinsky at a keg party? They should stick more to car talk and less to describing demographics.
In this context, all the hoo-hah about its handling, or sportiness, or lack thereof, or whatever, is just wind to me. That they aimed the car at a part of the market that is notoriously fickle is a marketing problem [or opportunity], but there will be others like me who look on the car as a practical, economical alternative to their sedans.
Having owned MBs since 1968, the "prestige" angle doesn't cut much with me...I got over that 20 years ago. To me, the superior safety engineering and promise of long mechanical life, combined with good long-distance touring comfort, is the reason to keep considering these cars. On this level, the least amount of bucks to get the benefits is in the Coupe.
I fully agree with you on why to keep considering M-B cars. Although I find Toyota and Honda vehicles also very well-built, I really enjoy the solidness of the M-B product and hope that trait continues for years to come.
I've had mine for almost a month now, have had to work too much filling in for a colleague on a long vacation, so have not had the chance for a long road trip. That is the only test she has not had the opportunity in which to shine. She has passed all other tests with flying colors. The best new car I have ever owned and the last one!
Someone called robert served me for 5 mins,when I just say I want a test drive, but probably won't buy or order today, he says he will ask someone to help me, so I waited another 10mins, but nothing happen.
Then I go to talk to him, he says he is serving the other customer "with appointment" right now, cannot help me anymore, it just a waste of my time.
I know I look young and I am an Asian, but I should not be served like that, I felt like ignored and stupid, never mind, this is just a little story wanted to share with you guys
Come on, honestly- you walked into a Mercedes dealership, tell them that you just want to test drive the car with no intention of buying it- did you really expect them to wait hands on knees on you?
It's a Mercedes dealership- people who buy Mercedes (at least in theory) range from upper-middle-class to downright wealthy. The C230 may cost "only" $26,000, but for that amount of money someone else could buy a minivan or a bigger family sedan- this car is certainly no bargain on the table, either.
You may be upset with your dealership experience- but let's face it- money talks. And if you appear to have none, well you basically don't have a voice.
Moreover, I've read (was it on this board?) that when Mercedes dealers were briefed on this car that it was explained to them that for some buyers it would be their first new car. The average transaction price for a new car these days is just above $23,000, so a young and reasonably well-employed member of the middle-class (not the upper-middle-class), or even the lower-middle-class in cities with high wages and reasonable housing costs, can certainly afford a base Benz that's around $26,500 with tax, title and license. Since Mercedes is looking to attract buyers to the brand with an entry-level model, its dealers are going to have to get used to the idea that the incomes of many buyers, especially after the initial demand from well-heeled Benz enthusiasts with the need for a second car or a big cargo bay is satisfied, isn't going to be horribly high. Besides, the people who are looking at any smallish hatchback are unlikely to be cross-shopping the bigger cars or minivans that you referred to. Not only are they not necessarily going to be old and white, they aren't necessarily going to be presumably straight married types with 2.4 children in some depressing tract in some God-forsaken place like Santa Clarita or Orange County...at least, not considering the natural territory from which Downtown LA M-B is going to draw much of its clientele.
The salesman has a duty to serve someone with an appointment, and very well may prefer to spend his time with a customer with demonstrated interest, but to say that Winifred has no right to complain about the service she received (whether or not those complaints may have grounds; they seem to, since the promised other assistant didn't come out to replace the first salesman) because she doesn't fit the illusory profile of a Benz customer is nothing but silly (M?)BS. If the personnel at dealers of any car make scare off potential customers on that basis, they're tarnishing the image of that make and most likely missing a few commission-paying sales. Not good for anyone involved, no?
One more comment: I went shopping for my first MB at 23, in 1968. I wanted to arrange an EU delivery, and the dealer in SF had a good specialist there whom I wanted to work with [in those days, factory delivery was not the well-oiled process it has become]. I too felt the skepticism as I walked in and announced I wanted to test a 220 sedan [the equivalent of the E nowadays], but everyone was too circumspect to voice their doubts out loud. They did ask some carefully veiled questions that were obviously designed to "qualify me" [what was I driving now, how had I heard about them, about MB, what did I know about the car, etc], but when it became clear I was serious, so were they. At the time, they had no way of knowing it was a test, and by passing, they got more of my business over the next 15 years. No dealer deserves you if they are stupid enough to pre-judge on appearance alone...find another one, since in So-Cal in particular, there are lots to choose from.
But the reality is, it's a Mercedes dealership.
There is prestige and a sense of status symbol associated with this brand.
You just don't walk into a fancy restaurant, tell the garcon you want to just have a sip of the soup and expect them to offer you a table. And that's exactly what she did.
And frankly, I don't think it's just a Mercedes dealership. You go to any car dealership and tell the salesperson you just want to test drive the car and have no intention of buying it whatsoever, and I don't think he would be willing to serve you at all, considering the fact that there are other people he could have better success with.
Standard rims are 16", with the 17's the sport option package.
For snows, 15's would be better...but will they clear the brakes?
I guess you could get a dealer to find a tire with a similar circumference in a 15" wheel but why bother? Just get a pair of 16" rims for any C class Benz (I guess the bolt pattern is the same) and mount a pair of Blizac or similar performance snow tire and store them in the summer.
I pick up my new Coupe tomorrow.
By telling them that she has no intention of buying it, it leaves them with this first impression of her:
First time buyer- no credit, no money.
They weren't judging her by her age, her looks or her race- they based their opinion on that one sentence alone. You may have had a better experience with your Mercedes dealership because you didn't tell them that you didn't want to buy their car. Of course they'll treat you right.
I never said that Mercedes dealerships were rude or that they're supposed to be rude. I said that it was a luxury marque showroom that will cater to its preferred customers.
My comment to winfred was never meant to incite such negative views from fellow posters.
I just found it rather naive for someone to walk into a Mercedes dealership, tell them that she doesn't want to buy their car but would like to test drive it, and expect them to actually treat her like their other customers. And then to go online and slander the dealership, saying that it sucked and warning people not to go there.
I've already explained myself twice regarding this, I'm not going to take up more space.
Moreover, at $26,000, this car isn't that expensive (certainly not by standards of incomes and consumption levels in Los Angeles), and lots of young buyers can qualify for a lease, even if they don't have the cash for a purchase down payment. (Who's out there buying RSXes, Celicas and Eclipses - the cars that Mercedes mentions as competitors in its comparison charts - in this price bracket, anyway?) Therefore, the assumption that young buyers necessarily mean low incomes and poor credit (and we don't know how young Winfred is, or how young she appears) isn't one that should be made by a dealer who is trying to sell cars to young buyers.
If the salesman had a customer with an appointment, then obviously he should serve that customer first. If there's no one else available to help, then he shouldn't say that there is someone, and should offer to make an appointment at another time when it's convenient for both of them. Lying to a potential customer isn't good business, though, and if she decides that she wants the car, she will be visiting one of LA's many other Benz dealers. Here's hoping Robert made a commission on his appointment.
And I note Winfred has decided not to come back to the board to pursue this...maybe the rest of us should move on, as well.
For external wheel circumferences:
225/45R17 = 205/55R16 = 195/65R15 = 185/75R14
With all of these, the speedometer calibration will be correct (or close enough), vehicle ground clearance will not be changed, and control systems such as ABS will not be affected because there is no difference in wheel rotation speed, because their diameters and circumferences have not been changed.
Assuming all other factors equal for things such as rubber compound, tread design and sidewall stiffness, what does change with the tires' profiles is its dry road performance and its winter driving performance.
Pretty much everyone knows that wide, low profile tires provides superior dry road handling performance, although the ride will be harsher.
What people don't necessarily know is that for winter driving, a narrow, skinny tire performs better because it has higher a ground pressure, which gives it the propensity to "dig down through" the snow surface for traction, whereas a big summer tire will tend to "float" on top of the snow and not provide traction. It is by this basis that ski's and toboggans function.
As far as other systems, a larger minimum tire rim diameter allows a manufacturer to fit larger brakes and improve stopping performance and reduce brake fade. But having the room doesn't mean that a manufacturer must use it. For example, I highly doubt that the optional 17" wheel package includes different brakes than standard.
Personally, I'd prefer to have a 15" snow over a 16", assuming that its inside diameter clears the C230's brakes. Not only are the 15's less expensive, but they perform better in snow. I can live with the reduced handling performance for the ~3 months that they'll be on the car.
-hh
then you can have fun posting about this as much as you like because I'm not going to respond to someone who's more inclined to insulting, rather than discussing, the issue with the other party.
Having said that, I still have to make a comment on the dealership (I know, I'm a hypocrate) - if you don't like the service where you are looking, go somewhere else. It shouldn't be that difficult to find another dealer in almost any area of the country.
Ordered on July 26th, so this is pretty fast; about a month faster than I originally had thought.
Tarik
Then I decided to peek at Edmunds while killing time on a Friday and somehow ended up in the Mercedes area. I saw C230 hatchback and my interest was peeked. I saw the Edmunds MSRP and the pictures and I immediately began some research. Everything looks good so far.
Now I'll quit boring you and ask the relevant questions:
Are people out there able to buy this car for around 27K/
Is Mercedes getting / asking above MSRP?
How long to get one?
Thanx for any info.
Jbreez
If you build your own on the MB website, you can configure the car to around $27k, but it'll be pretty much stripped.
If you order a cloth one, it should take about 8-12 weeks. I ordered mine on July 26th, and am picking it up tomorrow. Now, if you want leather, that's a different story. There are a couple of posts at mbworld.org that say that people have just gotten confirmation of MB scheduling leather for production, with delivery here around Thanksgiving. Of course, if you go in now and want leather, you will end up at the end of the line, so I don't know how long the c230 leather order backlog is.
Thanx,
Joe