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Mercedes-Benz CLK (2005 and earlier)
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Comments
I've found them better than Pirelli's, as well as some older Continentals I've had. And drastically better than All-season tires.
One warning, though...they will be "notchy" driving for around a week after you first put them on each season, until they scrub in a little.
BTW, did Bill recommend 4 tires, or just 2 for the back?
-hh
Thanks for the warning.
jrct9454, is there really 10 quarts of oil in the coupe? If so, then yeah, the new engines and using Mobil 1 makes for extended periods between oil changes. Nuff said.
I am on the same page with JRCT9454, regarding the fact that oil stays cleaner in the newer cars. I've mostly owned Honda's and Toyota's for the past 20+ years, and their oil always looked great after 3-4K. Don't recall the clean oil in the Big Three's after 3K. Looked like the stuff that was bubblin' out of the ground in the Beverly Hillbilly's. (At least those of 10 years ago) Thanks for the input "Y'all".
In any case, the generalization would work just as well if it were less - the important point is that modern cars are just not poisoning their own crankcases at the rate of even 6-8 years ago.
I will add that the new modular, all-aluminum engine family from MB [all of the new-gen V6s and 8s] are even cleaner than the last of the iron-block engines, which is what the 4 cyl Komp is. Some of the new-gen engines have been known to go 15k miles before the FSS demands an oil change. All depends on how you drive, and most importantly, how warm and long each engine cycle is. For the 4, a good average would be somewhere in the 8-12k miles range.
I am thinking about purchasing a 6 speed C230 and read every word of Edmonds Road Test. Under second opinions one person mentions rattles. If there one thing I can't take in a car is rattles. Has anyone had a problem with rattles? I was disappointed to read post 542 because the 2000 C230 didn't feel as solid is the 2002. I tried to purchase the ML in 98 and in 99 and did not because these SUVs rattled on the test drive!! I hope MB is not sacrificing quality for price nowadays.
Now, to be completely honest, there once was a faint squeak coming from the front passenger headrest. I applied a little leather conditioner to the back side and under the back cover piece. That squeak has not been heard from since.
I agree with you about the ML. I considered one back in 98, when the 99's were coming in. I was not impressed with it at all. It kind of put me off on MB for a little while. The fact is that these ML's were a totally new product for MB, building them in the U.S. for the first time, and I think they compromised on MB quality initially. I have not driven one lately, so I don't know if they improved or not.
As a side note, I was a quality control inspector for Honda in Marysville, Ohio back in the early 80's. We lived and breathed nothing but quality. I was trained to drive these new cars off the line, take them out to a test track with lots of bumps built in it, and try to create or find any rattles or sounds. Did I ever get picky about the personal cars I drive. My wife thinks I'm crazy when I can hear the most muffled rattle in a car and I've got to get rid of it.
You won't be disappointed with the C230 as far as build quality goes.
http://photos.yahoo.com/jay07_1996
I replaced the Rover with an X5 about a month ago, the first thing I did was have him detail it. It looks so much better than when I drove it off the lot, much better than "new".
Now back to the C230K - I've been in to my Mercedes dealer twice to test drive it - I really like this coupe. I'm looking for a weekend autocross car and think the C230K may be my next one. I've used an old 3 series BMW, a VW Golf and a really old 911 SC for this purpose in the past. Now comparing Golf GTI 1.8t, C230k and the upcomming Mini Cooper S. I'll be looking to the aftermarket to tweak the Mercedes a little - Brabus already has some stuff for the C230k. An underpully for the supercharger takes it from 197 HP to 220. Eibach springs to lower it about an inch, bilstein shocks and beefier swaybars and it will be good to go. It also needs some sort of short shift kit for the 6 speed. I think it will be an absolute blast to autocross. I want a white C230k with black cloth and the wheel package - that's it.
Thanks.
They can claim all they want, but they put one on the C320 Wagon...what's that say?
The bottom line is that as a hatchback owner for the last 15+ years, I know that I use the rear wiper and I want one on my next hatch. PERIOD.
-hh
Yup. The catch is that more vertical rear surfaces are less less likely to gather rain, snow or frost, so why did M-B see a wiper as necessary on the C-Wagon? For "looks"?
I don't see the lack of a wiper as a big issue on this particular car.
It is a combination of local conditions and constraints...YMMV applies. As I mentioned, I have 15+ years of direct, relevant experience. The slope of hatchbacks such as the C230 will require that you're going 40+mph in a rain or snowstorm to keep it clear of precipitation. If you're stuck in bumper-to-bumper in a snowstorm, it is going to get obscured.
My point is that this "don't need it" claim is self-contradictory on M-B's part...you need it on both, or neither.
Since a rear wiper also exists on the A Class, its absence on the C-Coupe is downright conspicuous.
FWIW, I personally suspect that MB figured that this was a place that they could cut costs a little, keep the "ugly hatchback" accusations at bay and hope that the profile of their targeted customers won't miss it.
For example, if your car is always garaged, then you don't have to worry about the chore of clearing off heavy morning dews & frosts. YMMV.
If you're stuck on this, then I guess that you've just eliminated one model from your search.
Perhaps. I'm more upset at the lameness of M-B's excuse than its absence. I would have been fine if it had been extra-cost option, but it isn't. IMO, if MB is successful with the C230, expect to see a rear wiper on it within a few years.
Any suggestions on how or where I could get a rear wiper aftermarket?
-hh
Believe me, if a $15 wiper were necessary on this car, it would be there.
I've owned plenty of hatchbacked cars in my time, and each has been different about crud buildup in bad weather. A couple of early '80s Celicas never required aux wiping in foul weather; others were a disaster without constant use of the rear wiper. The angle DOES make a difference, and I'll side with the assumption that the people in Stuttgart know what they are talking about - if they didn't, the EU reaction to this would already be deafening.
Relax...
What everyone forgets is that the things that American customers consider "cheap" about this car are routinely left off of ordered cars in Europe. Leather is rare in this class of car in EU - the cloth upholstery is what most people order. Same with wood, where it is an option, it is ordered by a minority of people. Safety equipment is another story - Mercedes simply doesn't cut corners here...they spent money on standard ESP, headbags, etc. If the wiper were necessary to safe driving, it would be there.
Look, I think there are a lot of things to criticize about the way MB is doing business these days - this is not one of them.
Yes, but this is incomplete: the fluid mechanics of non-inviscid compressible flow to apply as a tangential clearing force are only applicable when the car is moving at or above a threshold velocity.
...we have folk who know better than the engineers...
Or perhaps some of us are Mechanical Engineers ourselves.
Using a semi-laminar flow to blow rain off your rear hatch works fine when its rain. But when accumulated snow blows off your roof, you're pretty much hosed, unless you have a nuclear powered rear window defogger.
-hh
My MB station wagon had a standard rear wiper which was needed to clear the window at highway speeds. I agree with earlier posts that if window visibility was a problem, this relatively inexpensive item would have been included.
I conducted an unscientific poll by walking around 2 MB lots - most of the newer used cars have around 45K miles on them. I wonder if there is any coincidence - sell them before warranty runs out.
However, here's the most important thing - is the warranty price negotiable? The brochure said $2500 for the 4yr/50K but I think jjpeter said he got it for $2200. Don't tell me - it also depends on which area of the country you are buying your car.
Thanks guys. This board ROCKS!!!
P.S. My car will be born next wk. Just in time for Christmas.
The warranty can be purchased from any dealer in the country...all same-o. Make a few phone calls and save some money.
And for a cost estimate, Porsche charged $307 for their rear wiper option on last year's 911. IMO, this is not out of line.
-hh
Clearly, if this item is a show-stopper for some of you, then this is the wrong car for you and should be crossed off your list.
It's on my list for a lot of good reasons. And my only argument with this thread is that in 35 years of dealing with Mercedes, I have never known them to short a particular model on the basic safety list to "save money". They sincerely believe that the angle of the window and characteristics of the wind flow over this car make the wiper unnecessary. It's not as if it didn't come up - it was specifically discussed in the press interviews at the time of the car's intro in Germany. If there are real-world complaints about this [as opposed to theoretical objections from non-owners], you can believe DB will react appropriately. I've never heard this issue raised in any of the English-language reviews [or translated articles] I've read.
I've been a tough critic of this company and some of its recent missteps...I continue to believe this issue isn't one of them, but if it is to you, then this car won't be right. Vive la competition...
Sadly, MB decided not to go ahead (probably too much competition for the CLK).
Read more at:-
http://mbspy.bacosys.be/w203karmann.htm
Regards, JohnB
It would be nice if MB had an obvious email address for product feedback. FWIW, I have heard the issue raised in English...probably in AutoWeek
I'll add a clause on my purchase contract that states that if MB comes out with a wiper on a future model, they agree that they will retrofit it onto my car for $400. Afterall, all contracts are negotiable ;-)
-hh
First of all, why leave a Mercedes parked outside overnight? Is it laziness or lack of a garage? If it is lack of a garage, then don't buy a Mercedes. Keep something more plebian outside in the winter. I can't imagine a decision to buy any new Mercedes without a safe, secure overnight garage for the car.
Now why complain about the lack of a wiper on the rear window when the car has gotten an overnight coat of snow (and the ice underneath)? A great way to damage a wiper mechanism is to try to remove accumulated snow & ice from a parked car by simply getting in the car and turning on the wipers. The right way to do it is to remove the crud with a scraper. Get the stuff off your side windows too while you are at it! But don't rely on wipers to remove an accumulation of snow and ice. Do it right!
As to a rear wiper itself. Please note the configuration of the car. It has a sloped rear window like the CLK coupe. Furthermore it has that (some may think is "cute") kammback. While these features do not keep falling snow off the window, they should work to keep winter road grime off your backlite. That is what a rear wiper is meant to remove! The Sport Coupe is unlike a wagon. A Mercedes or Volvo wagon, with a more vertical rear window and without any structural "dam" to keep road grime away, is quite likely to pick up a lot of greasy, dirty winter road grit. Nothing in the design of a wagon blocks this goop from your window. So a wiper is fitted to do the job. But on the C230K Sport Coupe, this is clearly not the needed. The rear window is much removed from the source of this road grime problem.
Finally, do note that the car does have a heated rear window. Even in a heavy snowstorm, this should serve well enough to melt snow picked up while moving slowly in heavy traffic. Use it!
I can see why Mercedes did not deem the rear wiper a feature that would be needed on the car. If the lack of the rear window wiper will make a potential buyer buy a Daewoo or Hyundai that has a wiper, I say go for it. Geez, you can probably even get a better warranty from the Koreans too. I will take the Mercedes, wiper or not! And I trust Mercedes if they decide I don't need the wiper.
I still think that the wiper thing is much ado about nothing, but I don't want to jinx myself when I go through my first freezing rainstorm, so I'll have to say that I'm reserving judgment until I go through some bad weather and still don't need the rear wiper.
Besides, parking in a garage does not eliminate the fact that some people would feel more comfortable if there was a rear wiper. It's simply a preference. When I test drove the C-coupe I thought, "Hey, where is the rear wiper switch?" Then I realized there is no rear wiper. It didn't bother me that it wasn't there. I also test drove the Acura RSX/S and I don't believe it had a rear wiper either. I figured I would put a little Rain X on the back windshield anyway so I wouldn't need a rear wiper.
Have you been to a Chevy dealer lately? You will be suprised at the number of $40k trucks, some even $50k. I am sure Chevy sells more over $35k trucks than all MB combined in US. It might be time to wake up and consider that many other cars and trucks may cost more than a MB and some poeple maybe buying this car as a "toy", as this Chevy owner would be.
Of course you don't put it in a garage when you go to a friends or shopping. You probably don't leave it out long enough to get buried in snow then. But leaving this car outside at night to collect snow and then thinking that the car is lacking because it does not have a rear wiper is warped. If you buy nice toys, put them away. You don't leave a wonderful car like these outside all night.
Space is tight in the Bay Area, and getting an apartment with a parking space is one thing, covered parking space another, getting a totally enclosed shared parking garage is harder, and having an individual garage (with house attached) is too rich for my blood. I guess I'll have to pay $500k-$1mill to buy a house and sell my $30k car. Shame, I didn't know sun and snow and water and dirt hurts cars.
Maybe I'll just walk from now on. At least I have a "garage" to park myself in.
I have been spending time in way southern California the last couple weeks and the 3 of the 4 cars that were on the local Benz lot last week are still there. I talked to one of the salesman last week and he was quick to offer a $1500 discount. He knew I was from out of state and needed to give me a reason to buy a car so far from home. So shop around and/or be patient. The C230 is still a new and different. 6-9 months from now the demand will probably drop off a little like it does with any car. By waiting you might even get a better car. Benz will most likely have made a few adjustments to the manufacturing process and/or parts used in the cars to address any problems/issues they have found.
Besides, the C230's comparatively low price point (the average transaction price probably isn't all that much higher than that of a loaded Accord, and is most likely less than that of a loaded Odyssey or S2000, Hondas all) means it will probably be a daily driver for the majority of its owners. Therefore, chances are C230s driven by people who work in the 'burbs will be parked in uncovered lots for eight to twelve hours straight every workday - more than long enough for rain, snow, bird droppings and various and sundry other classifications of grime to build up.
Revka
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Could it be because we have only two garage bays?
My wife gets one, and I choose to park my 911 in mine, instead of my daily driver (see the photo is in my profile).
No, I can't add a third bay (long story). I've looked at spending the $3K to put in a "car stacker" lift, but they require 9'6" of clearance and I only have 8'7". FWIW, for the new house alternative, you're looking at $600+K for a McMansion, on a piddling 1/5th Acre lot on fairly steep hillside.
Now why complain about the lack of a wiper on the rear window when the car has gotten an overnight coat of snow...?
I'm not complaining about overnight snow.
Finally, do note that the car does have a heated rear window. Even in a heavy snowstorm, this should serve well enough to melt snow picked up while moving slowly in heavy traffic. Use it!
You don't think I already do?
Frankly, the problem is that I have yet to find a rear window defroster that can honestly keep up with bad NJ snowfalls.
Please don't get me started on those "helpful" manufacturers who decide to put their rear window defrosters on (aargh!!) timers. These timers are a gross disservice for our local needs.
Driving home in a snowstorm is my biggest complaint for a lack of a rear wiper.
Consider yourself "gosh darn" lucky that you don't have the winter driving conditions that I have to cope with here in Northern NJ. For example, instead of nice light fluffy 'Champagne Powder' (or anything close to it), our snowfalls are generally consistency of wet concrete and just as sticky. The melt:snow ratio is often as low as a ratio of 1:5 (Powder is 1:15 to as high as 1:30).
Now add in that over 75% of our winter storms are typically transitional: they start as snow & change to freezing rain, or they do opposite (which is actually worse). You don't know what real fun is until you've tried to negotiate a homeward hilly commute when its 15F (-10C) and driving rain. Please recall that no road salts are effective below ~20F.
If you're not having fun yet, toss in enough traffic congestion so that it can take 2 hours to go 10 miles. More, if there have been accidents.
It really is an example of just how different customers requirements can vary...ie, YMMV. So my suggestion is: "Please come to NJ for a winter test drive and then decide."
If you buy nice toys, put them away. You don't leave a wonderful car like these outside all night.
Its not a toy, but a tool.
I don't really want to rant about this type of attitude, so I'll leave it at that. I buy what suits my needs, and that does NOT include paying extra for perceived image because that might somehow offset my personal shortcomings or massage my ego. It is, and will always be, a tool and nothing more than a tool.
-hh
I know that they are not the only way to get a lease, however, I was just disappointed that they are hiking the price up so incredibly high while all the car market is relatively low, so I almost wish that they get burned with their short-term vision and greed, and that people stop considering the car. I thought that I will go for it, but now I believe that I will go back to my Bimmer, namely the 325, which should be in the same price range.