Mercedes-Benz CLK (2005 and earlier)

huntzinger · November 2001

Have I heard of them? I own EIGHT of them :-)

I've found them better than Pirelli's, as well as some older Continentals I've had. And drastically better than All-season tires.

One warning, though...they will be "notchy" driving for around a week after you first put them on each season, until they scrub in a little.

BTW, did Bill recommend 4 tires, or just 2 for the back?

-hh

rbraver · November 2001

Permaplate is like the proverbial "undercoating" that you hear about dealers trying to sell as an add-on. It is a finish protectant that is supposed to be better than whatever top coating comes from the factory. I bought it for a new Passat years ago--it was one of those "heat of the moment" decisions to protect the finish of my new baby. Having had time to reflect on it, it seems that Wolfsburg, or Sindelfingen for that matter, should be able to give me all the protection I need. Thoughts?

tommyp13 · November 2001

He priced it for me for all four, which is what I want anyway, as I don't want my bright new 17 inchers to get screwed up by salt.

Thanks for the warning.

jjpeter · November 2001

The magic of the Perma Plate protection is the guarantee. After talking it over with the service advisor upon picking up the car this afternoon, I was more at ease about spending the $$. Once applied (with their new more advanced formula) they say you don't have to do anything to it for 5 years. If ANYTHING gets on there that won't come off with a normal washing, bring it back to them and they will bring it back to the original finish. OK. Same goes for the interior treatment we got also. They included a bottle of application liquid which one could use to "haze" the car once a year if desired, but its not necessary to maintain the gurantee. Since I don't have time anymore to wax my cars, I figured this is one way to keep the factory finish fresh and protect the car for the long haul.

jrct9454, is there really 10 quarts of oil in the coupe? If so, then yeah, the new engines and using Mobil 1 makes for extended periods between oil changes. Nuff said.

lukyme · November 2001

Thanks for the input. I feel a little better about the oil change intervals. Like mentioned before, my BMW had the same deal, about 8500 miles before it told me to change the oil. I really didn't care as much as it was leased, and I would only have it for 30K. I plan to keep the C230 in the family for a while.
I am on the same page with JRCT9454, regarding the fact that oil stays cleaner in the newer cars. I've mostly owned Honda's and Toyota's for the past 20+ years, and their oil always looked great after 3-4K. Don't recall the clean oil in the Big Three's after 3K. Looked like the stuff that was bubblin' out of the ground in the Beverly Hillbilly's. (At least those of 10 years ago) Thanks for the input "Y'all".

jrct9454 · November 2001

Well, it's somewhere between 8 and 10 quarts...somebody with a current 4 cyl owners manual will have to help out here. On the v-engine side of the family, it's just short of 10 quarts.

In any case, the generalization would work just as well if it were less - the important point is that modern cars are just not poisoning their own crankcases at the rate of even 6-8 years ago.

I will add that the new modular, all-aluminum engine family from MB [all of the new-gen V6s and 8s] are even cleaner than the last of the iron-block engines, which is what the 4 cyl Komp is. Some of the new-gen engines have been known to go 15k miles before the FSS demands an oil change. All depends on how you drive, and most importantly, how warm and long each engine cycle is. For the 4, a good average would be somewhere in the 8-12k miles range.

abc246 · November 2001

I would not worry about the extended oil change intervals. The oil monitoring system on GM trucks will allow up to 10k miles on regular motor oil under certain conditions. Interesting thing is these trucks only hold 6 quarts. GM makes over a million of these a year and with the extended warranties they would have huge repair costs if this was not OK. I am following 10K service on my Silverado, but use synthetic oil. The oil on the dipstick looks fine even after 10k.

I am thinking about purchasing a 6 speed C230 and read every word of Edmonds Road Test. Under second opinions one person mentions rattles. If there one thing I can't take in a car is rattles. Has anyone had a problem with rattles? I was disappointed to read post 542 because the 2000 C230 didn't feel as solid is the 2002. I tried to purchase the ML in 98 and in 99 and did not because these SUVs rattled on the test drive!! I hope MB is not sacrificing quality for price nowadays.

jjpeter · November 2001

abc, so far, our C230 is solid as an oak block, rattle free. Of course its only 2 weeks old, LOL. Time will tell. I'd believe they are building them very tight. Build quality is fantastic on the coupe. We did not get the sun roof. Prefer the safety and simplicity of a solid roof. I was surprised how the 2000 loaner C230K felt. It had only 24K on it. Might attribute it to the fact it had a sunroof, a source of noise intrusion, and junky Goodyear Eagle tires, which transmitted a lot of noise off of the pavement. If I owned that car, those tires would be HISTORY!

billytt · November 2001

I can go jjpeter one better. My C230 is almost 4 months old with 7,902 miles and never a single rattle other than some loose CD cases in the glove box. I do have the panorama roof and it is included in that "never rattled" category.

Now, to be completely honest, there once was a faint squeak coming from the front passenger headrest. I applied a little leather conditioner to the back side and under the back cover piece. That squeak has not been heard from since.

ccweems · November 2001

Look at it close. Without seeing it I bet they have enough room to wiggle out of any claim. Fair warning to those who buy product for the guarantee. That is what Sears has done for years with the DieHard - a cheaply built battery with an expensive guarantee. If MB could significantly improve the finish of the car by applying some liquid they would have done it. Borrow a copy of Automotive News (the dealer will have it) and look at the adds from all of the dealer installed products. Read the claims of "$25 product, 30 min. time and $100's of profit". Remember Poly Glycote (a similar product)? Eventually the state attorney generals shut them down when it became evident that they had no intention of honoring the guarantee. My suggestion: Keep your car out of the sun as much as possible and spend $75 every year to have it detailed.

lukyme · November 2001

When it comes to car rattles, I go nuts. I can't stand any rattles, shimmies, or shakes. My C230 is so far as tight as they get. I have the sunroof, and frankly, don't hear a thing from it. This car feels like it was carved from a solid piece of steel.
I agree with you about the ML. I considered one back in 98, when the 99's were coming in. I was not impressed with it at all. It kind of put me off on MB for a little while. The fact is that these ML's were a totally new product for MB, building them in the U.S. for the first time, and I think they compromised on MB quality initially. I have not driven one lately, so I don't know if they improved or not.
As a side note, I was a quality control inspector for Honda in Marysville, Ohio back in the early 80's. We lived and breathed nothing but quality. I was trained to drive these new cars off the line, take them out to a test track with lots of bumps built in it, and try to create or find any rattles or sounds. Did I ever get picky about the personal cars I drive. My wife thinks I'm crazy when I can hear the most muffled rattle in a car and I've got to get rid of it.
You won't be disappointed with the C230 as far as build quality goes.

jjpeter · November 2001

Have posted pics of our Silver 2002 C230 Kompressor Coupe. Have a look...

http://photos.yahoo.com/jay07_1996

jmess · November 2001

I test drove an automatic tonight and it seemed to have plenty of getup and go. I currently drive Tundra V8 pickup truck which has quite a lot of low end torque and I wasn't disapointed with the coupe. There might have been the slightest hint of a flat spot from a dead stop with the automatic but that was probably due to the supercharger not being spun up. I could feel the shorter wheel base and some choppiness over rough streets as noted in the Edmunds review. The car has a lot of features that you don't find on other cars. The cloth interior fabric seemed durable but the pattern is probably something you get use to over time. The seating and steering wheel are very adjustable. I hate to think about finding the perfect position for everything and then the wife changes it and I have to start over again. I think the electric seats with memory are a must have for anyone who shares the car with someone else but boy are they pricey; over $1000. It hard to believe that the electric seats aren't part of the premium package or the leather seat package. I like the versatility of the hatchback configuration with the folding seat backs. I really like the sunroof and I would have to have one. The lack of an in-dash CD seems way out of place in this price range; I think BMW includes a CD this year so so Benz can't be far behind. At speed on the freeway (65-75) the car was fairly quite and you didn't notice the choppyness of the suspension like I did on the city streets. I hit a few corners and the cars handling seem competent but I wasn't able to really push the car very hard. One thing I missed was a rear wiper for the hatch glass. With previous hatchbacks I have grown to appreciate the usefulness of a rear wiper. All in all I am interested in the car but have some others car I want to compare it with.

tommyp13 · November 2001

MB says that the angle of the hatch is such that a wiper isn't necessary. After 2 months of ownership, I'd have to agree. I haven't had an instance where I've needed one yet. I agree with you about the cloth pattern - it's not the best-looking that I've ever seen, but it's a really tough fabric. Even though I really want leather, I'm having a tough time justifying it to myself, since the cloth will wear so much better.

rickrover · November 2001

Dealer Permaplate is pure dealer profit, read the warranty fine print very carefully - there is LOTS of wiggle room. There is absolutely nothing that will keep your paint and interior looking good for years other than good old maintenance. The best way to keep your car looking new for a long time (if you don't do it yourself) is to take it to a good detailer once a year. The operative word is "good", the guy I take my cars to is a fanatic - he knows all the best products for nourishing the paint, rubber, vinyl, leather, etc, etc. He clay bars the paint when the car is new and gives it a coat of excellent wax (high end Zymol), then uses some increadable stuff on the rubber and seals, then something different on interior plastics and Hyde foods the leather - that's the major detail, he comes back in 6 months for a mini detail which is a good cleaning and wax and the preservative treatment. I invest about $250 a year in each of my vehicles with him and they stay absolutely new looking. I just got rid of an 8 year old Range Rover that looked like it had just been driven off the lot. Perfect paint and not a crack in the interior, just the drivers seat was very slightly worn with 170k miles on it, amazing.
I replaced the Rover with an X5 about a month ago, the first thing I did was have him detail it. It looks so much better than when I drove it off the lot, much better than "new".

Now back to the C230K - I've been in to my Mercedes dealer twice to test drive it - I really like this coupe. I'm looking for a weekend autocross car and think the C230K may be my next one. I've used an old 3 series BMW, a VW Golf and a really old 911 SC for this purpose in the past. Now comparing Golf GTI 1.8t, C230k and the upcomming Mini Cooper S. I'll be looking to the aftermarket to tweak the Mercedes a little - Brabus already has some stuff for the C230k. An underpully for the supercharger takes it from 197 HP to 220. Eibach springs to lower it about an inch, bilstein shocks and beefier swaybars and it will be good to go. It also needs some sort of short shift kit for the 6 speed. I think it will be an absolute blast to autocross. I want a white C230k with black cloth and the wheel package - that's it.

skobola · November 2001

Rickrover, in regard to increasing hp in C230, see my post here, #545, Wetterauer. I do not know how much is the Brabus thing, this one is $1,295; see more at http://www.chip-tuning.com.

loucopits · November 2001

I noticed some comments about the extended warranty. Can someone post the cost and the duration of the extension?

Thanks.

jjpeter · November 2001

We opted for the extended warranty based on several factors. 1-This car is so full of gizmos, seemed prudent to cover it beyond 4/50K. 2- Its our first Benz, and we have heard of bank account draining repair costs happening beyond the standard factory warranty. Of course, not covered are "consumables" like brakes, light bulbs, filters etc. But what concerns me the most is the complexity of the electronics in the car, plus electrical motors in the seats, windows etc. So, we went with the premium 4/50K extended which covers it till the year 2009 or 100K. Cost us ~ $2200 extra.

huntzinger · November 2001

MB says that the angle of the hatch is such that a wiper isn't necessary.

They can claim all they want, but they put one on the C320 Wagon...what's that say?

The bottom line is that as a hatchback owner for the last 15+ years, I know that I use the rear wiper and I want one on my next hatch. PERIOD.

-hh

tommyp13 · November 2001

The angle on the rear window is more like a coupe's than a hatch's. I don't see the lack of a wiper as a big issue on this particular car. If you're stuck on this, then I guess that you've just eliminated one model from your search.

huntzinger · November 2001

That says that the wagon has a different rear window angle, no?

Yup. The catch is that more vertical rear surfaces are less less likely to gather rain, snow or frost, so why did M-B see a wiper as necessary on the C-Wagon? For "looks"?

I don't see the lack of a wiper as a big issue on this particular car.

It is a combination of local conditions and constraints...YMMV applies. As I mentioned, I have 15+ years of direct, relevant experience. The slope of hatchbacks such as the C230 will require that you're going 40+mph in a rain or snowstorm to keep it clear of precipitation. If you're stuck in bumper-to-bumper in a snowstorm, it is going to get obscured.

My point is that this "don't need it" claim is self-contradictory on M-B's part...you need it on both, or neither.

Since a rear wiper also exists on the A Class, its absence on the C-Coupe is downright conspicuous.

FWIW, I personally suspect that MB figured that this was a place that they could cut costs a little, keep the "ugly hatchback" accusations at bay and hope that the profile of their targeted customers won't miss it.

For example, if your car is always garaged, then you don't have to worry about the chore of clearing off heavy morning dews & frosts. YMMV.

If you're stuck on this, then I guess that you've just eliminated one model from your search.

Perhaps. I'm more upset at the lameness of M-B's excuse than its absence. I would have been fine if it had been extra-cost option, but it isn't. IMO, if MB is successful with the C230, expect to see a rear wiper on it within a few years.

Any suggestions on how or where I could get a rear wiper aftermarket?

-hh

pocmonster · November 2001

I believe that Mercedes deemed rear wipers unnecessary on their hatchbacks because of the way aerodynamics work. The rain, sleet, whatever form of precipitation naturally flows off the steeply raked window with help of the wind flow. On wagons, where windows are not as angled, the water tends to gather and stay and slowly drip off, which requires the help of a wiper. Furthermore, since the window is more upright, it is more susceptible to water rising from the rear wheels. It's all about aerodynamics once the car is going rather than what happens when the car is stable.

jrct9454 · November 2001

...we have folk who know better than the engineers...

Believe me, if a $15 wiper were necessary on this car, it would be there.

I've owned plenty of hatchbacked cars in my time, and each has been different about crud buildup in bad weather. A couple of early '80s Celicas never required aux wiping in foul weather; others were a disaster without constant use of the rear wiper. The angle DOES make a difference, and I'll side with the assumption that the people in Stuttgart know what they are talking about - if they didn't, the EU reaction to this would already be deafening.

Relax...

jmess · November 2001

I have owned both generations of the Honda CRX-SI which had a very raked rear windows. Each car had a rear wiper and at speed you really didn't need it. When in traffic, with rain or snow the wiper was useful. If your car is sitting outside and you want to backup, you could flip the wiper and clean off the dew/rain/snow off the hatch window. Without the wiper you have to reliey on the side mirrors for rear vision or get out and wipe off the window by hand. I have found that keeping a rear window well coated with rain-x or equivalent will reduce the amount of moisture sticking to the rear window. I think the wiper was left off to cut costs. So it goes in the entry level luxury sporty car market.

jrct9454 · November 2001

...Mercedes does not cut costs on safety. If the wiper were an issue, it would already be a scandal in Europe.

What everyone forgets is that the things that American customers consider "cheap" about this car are routinely left off of ordered cars in Europe. Leather is rare in this class of car in EU - the cloth upholstery is what most people order. Same with wood, where it is an option, it is ordered by a minority of people. Safety equipment is another story - Mercedes simply doesn't cut corners here...they spent money on standard ESP, headbags, etc. If the wiper were necessary to safe driving, it would be there.

Look, I think there are a lot of things to criticize about the way MB is doing business these days - this is not one of them.

huntzinger · November 2001

I believe that Mercedes deemed rear wipers unnecessary on their hatchbacks because of the way aerodynamics work.

Yes, but this is incomplete: the fluid mechanics of non-inviscid compressible flow to apply as a tangential clearing force are only applicable when the car is moving at or above a threshold velocity.

...we have folk who know better than the engineers...

Or perhaps some of us are Mechanical Engineers ourselves.

Using a semi-laminar flow to blow rain off your rear hatch works fine when its rain. But when accumulated snow blows off your roof, you're pretty much hosed, unless you have a nuclear powered rear window defogger.

-hh

mlsphd · November 2001

If you take a look at the C230 option list, one thing becomes glaringly obvious. MB does not consider safety an option. All of the safety & handling features are standard. Differing from other makes, especially at this price point, MB made a decision about what they felt was important to include. IMHO, I feel more confident when side airbags, skid control, etc. are considered essential parts of the vehicle, and the CD changer, leather seating, etc. are options. I'm fine with that hierarchy of priorities.

My MB station wagon had a standard rear wiper which was needed to clear the window at highway speeds. I agree with earlier posts that if window visibility was a problem, this relatively inexpensive item would have been included.

rbraver · November 2001

Take a look at this URL: http://gallery.mbnz.org/gallery/pics/MBenz1055058_PM.jpg Is this real?

abc246 · November 2001

This part does not cost $15! It has a motor, linkage, arm, switch, ect. I feel they left it off to cut cost. My last hatch, a Toyota Supra, had a wiper. If you live where it snows all winter long this is a nice feature. Sometimes snow from the roof slides off on the window. If the car is outside overnight or at work the wiper will clear light snow. During heavy wet snow the wiper can help keep the rear window clean. In spring and fall the wiper can clear frost using the washer. I will miss it.

chowchow3 · November 2001

I saw two messages (#568 and 569) talking about extended warranties. I talked to my neighbor who is on her 3rd MB. She never knew there was extended warranties. (A fine example of educated consumers) However, she did repeated said how expensive repairs are and for the price she would definitely buy it if she plans to keep her cars longer than the original warranty period.

I conducted an unscientific poll by walking around 2 MB lots - most of the newer used cars have around 45K miles on them. I wonder if there is any coincidence - sell them before warranty runs out.

However, here's the most important thing - is the warranty price negotiable? The brochure said $2500 for the 4yr/50K but I think jjpeter said he got it for $2200. Don't tell me - it also depends on which area of the country you are buying your car.

Thanks guys. This board ROCKS!!!

P.S. My car will be born next wk. Just in time for Christmas.

jrct9454 · November 2001

The cost of the warranty is up to the dealer - he pays a certain level of $, and is then free to charge whatever the local market will bear. On the mainline C forum board, you'll find a number of references to the dealer in Chico, CA, who has built a reputation for selling the warranty at reasonable prices.

The warranty can be purchased from any dealer in the country...all same-o. Make a few phone calls and save some money.

huntzinger · November 2001

Strictly speaking, so long as a vehicle is equipped with dual outside mirrors, the vehicle's rear window can be blocked, but it is not considered to be a safety deficiency. Otherwise, no one would ever be allowed to tow a trailer.

And for a cost estimate, Porsche charged $307 for their rear wiper option on last year's 911. IMO, this is not out of line.

-hh

jrct9454 · November 2001

...there is no reason for ABS, ESP, head bags, or side bags, either, to make a vehicle that is considered "safe".

Clearly, if this item is a show-stopper for some of you, then this is the wrong car for you and should be crossed off your list.

It's on my list for a lot of good reasons. And my only argument with this thread is that in 35 years of dealing with Mercedes, I have never known them to short a particular model on the basic safety list to "save money". They sincerely believe that the angle of the window and characteristics of the wind flow over this car make the wiper unnecessary. It's not as if it didn't come up - it was specifically discussed in the press interviews at the time of the car's intro in Germany. If there are real-world complaints about this [as opposed to theoretical objections from non-owners], you can believe DB will react appropriately. I've never heard this issue raised in any of the English-language reviews [or translated articles] I've read.

I've been a tough critic of this company and some of its recent missteps...I continue to believe this issue isn't one of them, but if it is to you, then this car won't be right. Vive la competition...

jcb_digger · November 2001

Yes, the picture is real - Karmann came up with it as a concept vehicle for the 71st International Motor Show in Geneva.

Sadly, MB decided not to go ahead (probably too much competition for the CLK).

Read more at:-

http://mbspy.bacosys.be/w203karmann.htm

Regards, JohnB

pocmonster · November 2001

the convertible is sooooo sweet. don't condemn me for saying this, but i actually think the convertible is a lot prettier than the coupe.

jjpeter · November 2001

That convertable prototype is sweet. Takes away some of the heft of the butt end of the C230K. Looks somewhat like the VW cabriolet. Not that I'm a convertable buyer, heck I didn't even opt for the sun roof on our C230! But this unit would sell, looks even better then the SLK.

huntzinger · November 2001

If there are real-world complaints about this [as opposed to theoretical objections from non-owners], you can believe DB will react appropriately. I've never heard this issue raised in any of the English-language reviews [or translated articles] I've read.

It would be nice if MB had an obvious email address for product feedback. FWIW, I have heard the issue raised in English...probably in AutoWeek

I'll add a clause on my purchase contract that states that if MB comes out with a wiper on a future model, they agree that they will retrofit it onto my car for $400. Afterall, all contracts are negotiable ;-)

-hh

ranchero · November 2001

I've bought one of these cars. The lack of a rear wiper bothers me not one bit (though I live in the mountain west). The critics of the lack of this as standard or optional equipment are wrong and maybe lazy too.

First of all, why leave a Mercedes parked outside overnight? Is it laziness or lack of a garage? If it is lack of a garage, then don't buy a Mercedes. Keep something more plebian outside in the winter. I can't imagine a decision to buy any new Mercedes without a safe, secure overnight garage for the car.

Now why complain about the lack of a wiper on the rear window when the car has gotten an overnight coat of snow (and the ice underneath)? A great way to damage a wiper mechanism is to try to remove accumulated snow & ice from a parked car by simply getting in the car and turning on the wipers. The right way to do it is to remove the crud with a scraper. Get the stuff off your side windows too while you are at it! But don't rely on wipers to remove an accumulation of snow and ice. Do it right!

As to a rear wiper itself. Please note the configuration of the car. It has a sloped rear window like the CLK coupe. Furthermore it has that (some may think is "cute") kammback. While these features do not keep falling snow off the window, they should work to keep winter road grime off your backlite. That is what a rear wiper is meant to remove! The Sport Coupe is unlike a wagon. A Mercedes or Volvo wagon, with a more vertical rear window and without any structural "dam" to keep road grime away, is quite likely to pick up a lot of greasy, dirty winter road grit. Nothing in the design of a wagon blocks this goop from your window. So a wiper is fitted to do the job. But on the C230K Sport Coupe, this is clearly not the needed. The rear window is much removed from the source of this road grime problem.

Finally, do note that the car does have a heated rear window. Even in a heavy snowstorm, this should serve well enough to melt snow picked up while moving slowly in heavy traffic. Use it!

I can see why Mercedes did not deem the rear wiper a feature that would be needed on the car. If the lack of the rear window wiper will make a potential buyer buy a Daewoo or Hyundai that has a wiper, I say go for it. Geez, you can probably even get a better warranty from the Koreans too. I will take the Mercedes, wiper or not! And I trust Mercedes if they decide I don't need the wiper.

tommyp13 · November 2001

that the "if you don't have a garage, don't get a Mercedes" comment was just a bad joke, and not some misguided a-hole snobbery comment. Many people don't have a garage. If it wasn't a joke, get a life. It's that kind of attitude that makes people dislike MB, BMW, and Porsche owners in the first place.

I still think that the wiper thing is much ado about nothing, but I don't want to jinx myself when I go through my first freezing rainstorm, so I'll have to say that I'm reserving judgment until I go through some bad weather and still don't need the rear wiper.

hirobyn · November 2001

If the MB is meant to be parked in a garage does that mean when I go shopping I have to find a garage to put it in? How about when I visit a friends house? Should I insist that my MB be parked in their garage. How absurd! Cars are driven outside so what's the concern about where it's parked at night?

Besides, parking in a garage does not eliminate the fact that some people would feel more comfortable if there was a rear wiper. It's simply a preference. When I test drove the C-coupe I thought, "Hey, where is the rear wiper switch?" Then I realized there is no rear wiper. It didn't bother me that it wasn't there. I also test drove the Acura RSX/S and I don't believe it had a rear wiper either. I figured I would put a little Rain X on the back windshield anyway so I wouldn't need a rear wiper.

abc246 · November 2001

Roles are reversing. My Silverado cost more than the C230 I am looking at! My Blazer costs more too! By the way, it has a rear wiper with washer. So I guess I will just have to leave the cheapest car (C230) outside!

Have you been to a Chevy dealer lately? You will be suprised at the number of $40k trucks, some even $50k. I am sure Chevy sells more over $35k trucks than all MB combined in US. It might be time to wake up and consider that many other cars and trucks may cost more than a MB and some poeple maybe buying this car as a "toy", as this Chevy owner would be.

ranchero · November 2001

No, the garage is not a joke. To invest in a $30K car and not have a garage for it is inane. Do you really want to buy that beautiful, expensive car and let it sit outside overnight? Sorry, get the garage first, 'til then live with the Honda.

Of course you don't put it in a garage when you go to a friends or shopping. You probably don't leave it out long enough to get buried in snow then. But leaving this car outside at night to collect snow and then thinking that the car is lacking because it does not have a rear wiper is warped. If you buy nice toys, put them away. You don't leave a wonderful car like these outside all night.

tomqbui · November 2001

Guess I'm insane. Got the C230 and parking it in my 6-unit apartment small assigned-spot parking lot.

Space is tight in the Bay Area, and getting an apartment with a parking space is one thing, covered parking space another, getting a totally enclosed shared parking garage is harder, and having an individual garage (with house attached) is too rich for my blood. I guess I'll have to pay $500k-$1mill to buy a house and sell my $30k car. Shame, I didn't know sun and snow and water and dirt hurts cars.

Maybe I'll just walk from now on. At least I have a "garage" to park myself in.

skobola · November 2001

I calculated a lease price for a silver C Coupe w/o anything else a week before and it amounted to $403/month for 36 months with 10,000 miles/year, $0 down (for MSRP of 26,235). Than yesterday I went to check it again, and the lease for the same car and terms jumped to $483/month!!! Proportionally, the price of a silver with C7 was $414, which jumped to 497! I know that the car is pretty hot, but such a jump is just ridiculous! Any suggestions?

jjpeter · November 2001

Wow, this forum has certainly taken a left turn, into the great garage / rear wiper debate. I guess I'll have to contribute. I don't have a garage, live in the SF bay area and I'm not losing sleep over parking our coupe outside at night. I'd like to garage our baby, but its not possible for now. Put the PermaPlate protection on the car to ward off the effects of the elements. Had Lo-Jack installed to recover it if it is stolen. I doesn't snow here, so I don't need a rear wiper to clear the cars rear window during blizzards. I guess I'm blessed, live in a beautiful place with benign weather, and in a safe neighborhood where leaving ones car outside doesn't cause sleepless nights.

jmess · November 2001

Location, location.

I have been spending time in way southern California the last couple weeks and the 3 of the 4 cars that were on the local Benz lot last week are still there. I talked to one of the salesman last week and he was quick to offer a $1500 discount. He knew I was from out of state and needed to give me a reason to buy a car so far from home. So shop around and/or be patient. The C230 is still a new and different. 6-9 months from now the demand will probably drop off a little like it does with any car. By waiting you might even get a better car. Benz will most likely have made a few adjustments to the manufacturing process and/or parts used in the cars to address any problems/issues they have found.

mdmetz · November 2001

There are plenty of people in prosperous city neighborhoods who fit the income demographics of an E or even S class owner (let alone those of a C230 owner) who don't have convenient parking access. Personally, I wouldn't keep a car in Manhattan below 96th Street without parking (less for security than for the hassle of finding a space and alternate side of the street rules), but many people pay up to seven figures for garageless townhouses and large apartments in places like Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Georgetown and Pacific Heights, where street parking's somewhat easier than Manhattan and commercial garages are inconvenient. Since many of these people are childless and the C230 is the most compact (and thus easiest to park) Mercedes sold in the US, it wouldn't be surprising if its buyers are disproportionately prosperous and brand-conscious city residents when compared to buyers of larger Benzes. Not everyone is interred lives in suburbs or sprawling instant cities, after all.

Besides, the C230's comparatively low price point (the average transaction price probably isn't all that much higher than that of a loaded Accord, and is most likely less than that of a loaded Odyssey or S2000, Hondas all) means it will probably be a daily driver for the majority of its owners. Therefore, chances are C230s driven by people who work in the 'burbs will be parked in uncovered lots for eight to twelve hours straight every workday - more than long enough for rain, snow, bird droppings and various and sundry other classifications of grime to build up.

revka · November 2001

Where did you get your original calculations? Have you tried a different dealer...? Also, here are direct links to Edmunds' PowerShopper and Leasing information which you might find helpful. Good luck.

Revka
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huntzinger · November 2001

First of all, why leave a Mercedes parked outside overnight?

Could it be because we have only two garage bays?

My wife gets one, and I choose to park my 911 in mine, instead of my daily driver (see the photo is in my profile).

No, I can't add a third bay (long story). I've looked at spending the $3K to put in a "car stacker" lift, but they require 9'6" of clearance and I only have 8'7". FWIW, for the new house alternative, you're looking at $600+K for a McMansion, on a piddling 1/5th Acre lot on fairly steep hillside.

Now why complain about the lack of a wiper on the rear window when the car has gotten an overnight coat of snow...?

I'm not complaining about overnight snow.

Finally, do note that the car does have a heated rear window. Even in a heavy snowstorm, this should serve well enough to melt snow picked up while moving slowly in heavy traffic. Use it!

You don't think I already do?

Frankly, the problem is that I have yet to find a rear window defroster that can honestly keep up with bad NJ snowfalls.

Please don't get me started on those "helpful" manufacturers who decide to put their rear window defrosters on (aargh!!) timers. These timers are a gross disservice for our local needs.

Driving home in a snowstorm is my biggest complaint for a lack of a rear wiper.

Consider yourself "gosh darn" lucky that you don't have the winter driving conditions that I have to cope with here in Northern NJ. For example, instead of nice light fluffy 'Champagne Powder' (or anything close to it), our snowfalls are generally consistency of wet concrete and just as sticky. The melt:snow ratio is often as low as a ratio of 1:5 (Powder is 1:15 to as high as 1:30).

Now add in that over 75% of our winter storms are typically transitional: they start as snow & change to freezing rain, or they do opposite (which is actually worse). You don't know what real fun is until you've tried to negotiate a homeward hilly commute when its 15F (-10C) and driving rain. Please recall that no road salts are effective below ~20F.

If you're not having fun yet, toss in enough traffic congestion so that it can take 2 hours to go 10 miles. More, if there have been accidents.

It really is an example of just how different customers requirements can vary...ie, YMMV. So my suggestion is: "Please come to NJ for a winter test drive and then decide."

If you buy nice toys, put them away. You don't leave a wonderful car like these outside all night.

Its not a toy, but a tool.

I don't really want to rant about this type of attitude, so I'll leave it at that. I buy what suits my needs, and that does NOT include paying extra for perceived image because that might somehow offset my personal shortcomings or massage my ego. It is, and will always be, a tool and nothing more than a tool.

-hh

skobola · November 2001

The calculations came from the Benz's Build Your Own web pages, which come after one configures the car per his/her liking. Those are the leases offered by MB itself!
I know that they are not the only way to get a lease, however, I was just disappointed that they are hiking the price up so incredibly high while all the car market is relatively low, so I almost wish that they get burned with their short-term vision and greed, and that people stop considering the car. I thought that I will go for it, but now I believe that I will go back to my Bimmer, namely the 325, which should be in the same price range.

Mercedes-Benz CLK (2005 and earlier)

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