Mercedes-Benz CLK (2005 and earlier)

huntzinger · March 2002

[Another interesting fact about the C230 concerns its cost outside] of the United States. When the VAT is taken into account in Europe, many countries price out the C230 Kompressor at nearly $50,000

Well, that certainly explains that "Agree not to export" document I was asked to sign at delivery! Anyone else run into this one?

-hh

nyccarguy · March 2002

Wax your wheels and rinse them off whenever you can. Even if you can't wash your entire car, wash the wheels. Brake Sust shields such as "Kleen Wheels" are quite effective at keeping wheels free of brake dust for longer peroids of time, however they do cause excess heat and reduce ventilation and will cause your rotors to warp. Replacing warped brake rotors on a Mercedes isn't cheap. So wax your wheels and wash them as often as you can.

huntzinger: You drove a car with no Radio? Didn't you get bored? LOL!

huntzinger · March 2002

The key differentiation between the 318ti and the C230 is the power -- not just raw horsepower, which is good, but plenty of torque at low rpm's. The 318ti was a pretender when it came to performance, while the C230 delivers very good performance.

Agreed, 110%. I almost bought a TI a few years ago and the reason why was a combination of extreme salesman indifference, combined with it being a gutless wonder; my old 8V Scirocco had significantly more "zip", which was probably due to VW having stroker motors and BMW's preference to run square (or even slightly under square), which hurts torque output. As we all (should) know, people buy HP, but drive torque.

-hh

PS: No Radio. Yes, the '79 Civic's standard equipment did not include a radio. No, that doesn't mean that it stayed that way.

huntzinger · March 2002

- rear window wiper option

I thought the car didn't need one? Right, that is why it is an option :-))

Sounds like Benz has listened to some owners and is making some adjustments. Should make a good car even better.

Hmmm... anyone potentially interested in buying a used 2002 next year? Just rolled 1000 miles this AM.

-hh

nyccarguy · March 2002

Now I'm not starting a 318ti vs. C230K thread or argument here. I agree with huntzinger that the C230 is a much better car then the old ti was. It has much more usable power (torque) and seems like a better built car all around. I too drove a 318ti (slushbox) when it came out and was not impressed at all. However, many people on the 3 series thread seem to like the Ti. I've heard the best way to drive a BMW 4 Cylinder is with a 5 speed and drive it like you hate it! It will be interesting to see if BMW imports the current (E46) 316ti or 325ti. I think they are waiting to see how well the C Coupe sells and if Audi plans to bring the next generation A3 to our shores. This market could get interesting if competition starts to heat up.

jjpeter · March 2002

Thanks for the advise. Looks like an ongoing chore to keep the wheels clean. Question; I live in an apartment complex and the hosing off option is kind of hard to pull off. I take the C230 to the car wash periodically where it goes through the gauntlet of swinging rags and sprayers. I noticed that this one place I go to, sprays something from a big "bug sprayer" pressurized can onto the tires and wheels. After about 45 seconds, another guy using a high pressure wand blasts the wheels and tires before the car heads into the car wash section. What is that they are spraying onto the wheels and tires? Is it some sort of harsh chemical that really strips off the road dirt and brake dust, and thus any wax one might apply? Is it eventually harmful to the wheels? Anyone know? Thanks!

crikey · March 2002

There is a rumor of the 2.3l being changed for a 1.8l. So, not all change is good.

In other words, if you're basically happy with the '02 version, get it; '03 may be worse.

New Engines previewed at http://mbspy.bacosys.be/M271.htm

Well, they might offer other engines aside from the 2.3L, but I doubt that MB would just change the engine to a lower displacement with less power. That would be a severe regression. But, I could be wrong and you could be right.

jrct9454 · March 2002

...will be just that, a family, more than one displacement, with and without supercharging, with and without direct injection. Just exactly which they will choose to put in the Coupe for next year for the North American market is anyone's guess, but I would not bet on less power...just better fuel consumption and lower emissions.

I too am torn between the attraction of the new technology, and the concern that introducing new technology brings greater reliability risk. Even as I am writing this, I'm trying to decide whether or not to make an offer on a C230 Coupe or wait until next year, or pick something entirely different.

Drove the car yesterday [automatic required for us] and I was even more impressed than on our first drive 5 months ago. It isn't absolutely quicker than our '01 Accord V6, but the ready torque makes it feel more effortless when you want extra speed. Ride quality is merely comparable to the Accord - no better nor worse. But it is noticeably quieter than the Accord, by a whole bunch, and of course the handling, brakes, and safety features all favor the MB. However, the cargo capacity with the cover in place and the seats up is just over 10 cubic feet, and I am debating about whether I can get by with that given the normal "stuff" this enthusiast has on hand at all times [torque wrench, some tools, cleaning stuff, car cover, etc.]. Still thinking...

ranchero · March 2002

huntzinger - Yes, I also signed an agreement prohibiting export of my C230K. I talked about this with the dealership; it reminded me of the early '80s when gray market, Euro-spec cars were imported to the USA due to the huge differential in prices in Europe and the strength of the USA dollar. I guess MB pricing is the opposite now, though the dollar is still strong. The car is, in the macro-economic world scheme of things, a screaming deal.

As for brake dust: I get a lot of it, of course the majority is on the front. To me, this is typical Mercedes. You use the brakes hard because they work great. I notice relatively clean (body washed weekly) E-class sedans all the time with absolutely filthy wheels. The dentist's wives are too lazy to wash the cars themselves and the dopes at the drive through car wash don't do the job any better than they do on the preceeding Grand Marquis or the trailing Explorer.

jjpeter - you gotta stay on it. What's wrong with cleaning your wonderful car's wheels at your apartment? Some enviro geeks will complain about greasy brake dust in the storm sewers? Do it; it is a special car and deserves to have those wheels maintained well. Get used to dirty Mercedes wheels; this isn't a Civic with wheel covers. It is a performance car with brakes that perform and leave evidence of doing so. The pads are soft; replace them only with MB parts. Note that the cost of new brake pads is on you, not part of your MB maintenance free deal.

chowchow3 · March 2002

Thank you for even bringing the brake dust up. I would never even though to look there.

The dealer didn't even mention the no export issue at all. I didn't have to sign anything related to this. Interest though.

jrct9454 · March 2002

Those of you with C coupes, please post what you've experienced for fuel consumption. Please mention which transmission you have, and what your experience with gas mileage has been so far. Thanks for your help.

paul_p · March 2002

To combat brake dust I give my wheels a good coat of wax at least semi-annually, and then wipe them down with a wet rag after driving the car.

Ranchero, I appreciate your comments and also agree that a C-Class is a special car, and deserves to have the wheels (and everything else) maintained well!

merckx · March 2002

It's off post,but how about a few comments about that old Merc sedan you owned. I really admire those old,painted-hub cap models. I'm always on the lookout for an old one to buy as a weekend,hobby car.

huntzinger · March 2002

Old Merc sedan? Not me: I think you got wires crossed - I mentioned that I had had a 1979 Honda Civic.

-hh

chronopassion · March 2002

. . . and, at least initially, it is everything I had hoped. I got the C5 and C7 packages which makes the overall appearance quite nice.

I will try to review it more in depth later. Right now I am going for another spin.

CP

merckx · March 2002

Huntzinger,I was referring to the Mercedes Benz you said you bought in 1968.

jjpeter · March 2002

I believe that was Mr. John Robinson aka jrct9454 who has been driving the three star symbol since 68. Ring him up.

pdouglis · March 2002

I've just completed the first 1500 miles on my C230k delivered December 15th of last year . (Alabaster White, C5, K2, Auto Transmission, C1, and C7).

The more I drive this car, the more I enjoy it. The hatchback gives me far more cargo flexibility than my 1998 Audi A4 did, and it is a much more nimble car than my previous car, a 2000 Infiniti I30t.

I am very impressed with it's driving performance, braking, and acceleration. Yes, the brake dust is there, but it comes off easily enough. I get about 22-24 miles per gallon driving on mostly urban streets here in Phoenix.

I love the sunroof -- it's the largest I've ever had. Almost like driving a convertible. The sound system is terrific -- the CD changer in the glove box is a great convenience.

Since it has not rained here to any extent since I've had this car, it has not needed washing so far. I brush any dust off the car after driving it, and clean off the windshield and wheels with a paper towel, window cleaner, and tire cleaner.

Eventually I will bring it to our local car wash, and am wondering if I should request the spray-on wax or "preservative" as it goes down the line? While many of you probably wash and wax your own cars, I don't plan do it myself, nor do I plan to take it in to a detailing shop for such services. Does anyone use the spray-on car wax at the car wash on their C230s? Or do you just ask them to wash the car and omit the "wax"? My sales person at the dealership told me that if the car is garaged, that the original factory finish should suffice, but I would like to get any other views on the subject.

Thanks much,

Phil Douglis
pnd1@cox.net

rockribbed · March 2002

I have a silver coupe, auto, roof, 16"ers, bose with high 7000 mi on the clock. In my normal driving around (rural two lanes, driven vigorously but without downshifting) I get mid 20's mpg, usually around 24-26mpg. My best was a 700+ mile trip from Memphis to S/W Va: according to the dash computer I averaged 71mph (mostly 75 speed limit in Tn) and got 31 mpg. The good mileage takes the bite out of the premium gas (last tank $1.35/gal.)

oh, BTW, hi huntzinger and Markx, been changing ISP's and been out of the loop for a while. Good to see you're still holding the fort and still pleased with your cars.

tommyp13 · March 2002

I'm getting a little more MPG than the old man above. I get 25-26 in mixed (as much as n NJ will allow) driving. Just passed 10k on the odo, and the car's running great.

Hugh, I just switched back to my C7 rims. I just couldn't take the steel rims anymore. Hope that doesn't jinx us and drop 6 inches of snow on us soon.

78280z · March 2002

When the weather is warm, I live in Texas, and the auto fan is on, blasting fan on high, the car will stutter like it is out of gas and die. This happens when standing still or moving. This has happened 6 days so far, since Dec., and on days it happens it continues all day long, unless I turn off the fan. Dealer has had the car two times and has not been able to find anything wrong. This is my first MB and I am not impressed so far!

nyccarguy · March 2002

MB customer service. Keep complaining to people until they send a regional service rep to come look at your car.

jjpeter · March 2002

pdouglis, I would not rely on the "wax cycle" at the car wash to protect your finish. The sun alone in Phoenix is harsh enough to warrent at least one, good yearly wax job. You invested a good chunk of change for your C230 and having it hand waxed on a yearly basis is a wise move.

pdouglis · March 2002

Thanks, jpeter, for the good advice. Your suggestion of a yearly professional waxing on this car makes a lot of sense. I just called the service advisor at my local Mercedes dealership, and they can detail the car for me for $195, which includes hand waxing, which seems relatively reasonable, considering, as you say, my substantial investment in this car.

Thanks again,

Phil Douglis

Kirstie_H · March 2002

Just a reminder that the Town Hall chat is on for Wednesday evening (5-7pm Pacific/8-10 pm Eastern). Hope you can join in this week to meet and greet with your fellow Town Hall users and have a little fun with The Return of Car Trivia!

Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Edmunds.com

tommyp13 · March 2002

It varies by dealer. Some give free MB loaners, some give various brands' free loaners, some give none. It may also depend on whether or not you're going to the dealership that sold you the car.
I'm with nyc - having alot of cars with problems is no excuse for not working on your car. Are you dealing with random people in the service dept? How well did you get along with your salesperson? Sometimes the salesperson can do an end-run around the typical service bs.

If you want your car fixed, you're going to have to get tough. Ask to talk to the service manager - something smells funny about this whole thing. I'd go ahead and call MBUSA to see if they can verify this problem with supply of parts. Ball's in your court - time to kick some Atlanta dealership booty.

Also might want to try other dealerships in the area and explain your problem, and name names. Since this is profit to the dealership, you might do better with a different one, and get better service.

tarik · March 2002

For even more opinions and suggestions simply click here, this is another well frequented MB forum.

Tarik

timjack · March 2002

I appreciate mlsphd taking the time to help me put together a price to offer for the C230 in 744 paint, C-4,C-5, auto, and COMMAND. Greenwich was easier to deal with than Fairfield but as I'm only 10 minutes away bought it in Fairfield. They wouldn't take off the advertising fee (200.) so I paid $200. more to save 30 minutes driving each way for service and iff the last 20 or so postings are any indication of what's to come, I went from

to

quickly. I pick up the car next week and would like tommy13 and mlsphd to post with how their vehicle is performing so far. I need the moral boost.

skobola · March 2002

Well, I wanted that car since I test drove it on the MB Power Drive Event (or something called like that). However, MB's inflexibility in ordering, i.e., not wanting to fix the lease because they could not fix it as it takes more than 2 months to get the car (like that was my fault?) strayed me out of purchase. Now, seeing Madeline's problem, I am happy that I stayed with BMW, as I just simply ordered a 2002 325i to replace my 99 323i. My 323i was perfect, has not needed any servicing except one oil change at 15,000 miles!
But back to MB, I hope that MB will come to their senses, and provide at least some support, especially if the car is such a lemon (as based on Madeline's report of MB Support reps' comments). Or is MB turning to be like Chrysler/Dodge part? I hope not!

alan9999 · March 2002

I've had my C-Coupe for about 2 weeks now, about 300 miles and I love it. It was a big step for me; I haven't bought a foreign car for many years. I have been counting on MB's reputation for quality and service. The features for the price were just too good to pass up, and I have a dealer with a great rep. just 2 miles away.

I will be keeping close watch to see if I get the kind of problems I see in these postings. So far, so good though. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

revka · March 2002

Not to ignore madcloyd's situation, but so far I've seen very few 2002 C230 problems posted on this message board. So it's not to overreact because one person is having a lot of difficulties. Let's also not forget that anything that's manmade is subject to error..., and you'll find an occasional lemon in every make/model.

Btw, I deleted my last post because I realized my wording could have been more carefully selected. All I meant to say was that if people were to also post (copy/paste) their problems in our C230 Problems & Solutions discussion, it will be easier for other people to find. Let's not forget that issues discussed in this faster moving discussion will have a tendency to get lost in the crowd. Hope this clarifies things.

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

mlsphd · March 2002

Timjack-
Just turned over 3800 miles and very satified with the car. We did have a problem with ABS warning message on the dash, which turned out to be a brake sensor. Took 2 trips to dealer, one for diagnosis and on 2 weeks later after they had ordered the part (2 weeks due to my schedule).

Intereswting that you got a good deal at Fairfield dealership. When I asked about discount, the salesman got indignant and condescending, and flatly denied the possibility. He called about 4 days later, and I told him I had 3 offers at invoice +3%. He then offered to deal, but I was not interested. Guess I might have softened them up a bit.

Enjoy the car!

RE: Madeline

Allow one bit of skeptical questioning. Has anyone else had the same experience of rudeness and disturbingt info (eg 42% in for repairs) from MBUSA? Has anyone had some experience which would validate Madelines experiences? Anyone know that there are indeed valid and verifiable complaints and not some journalistic distortion?

tommyp13 · March 2002

Let's not all go overboard and use Mad's experience as typical. Over at the MBWorld forum, I haven't seen anything as bad has what has happened to her car, and that's a bunch that will complain about any small problem (especially galaxygrrl). That board also has more traffic, so don't draw too many conclusions from an isolated bad apple.
Timjack, hang in there, at least until your car stalls out a couple of times :~)

paul_p · March 2002

And spoke with them directly. I wanted to know how I would be treated if I had similar problems with my car.

I spoke with Denise who said maximum backlog to return calls (if that were necessary) would be five days, and that there are supervisors available to speak with customers. Of course it got a little scary when she found out I was calling to ensure their availability and helpfulness, however she assured me that they are indeed available for customers and will do everything they can to help. She did not sound like the kind of person who would hang up on someone. This call was made on Saturday 23 March at 11:50 AM EDT.

So I will continue to rely on 1-800-FOR-MERCEDES if I have any more problems. Denise has assured me if anyone has problems with their MB car, the center will assist them. Ditto on the comments of other posters especially those regarding lemon law procedures, I believe your postings have been good background info for future reference - even for people whose present MB's have run & continue to run well.

mchiu · March 2002

Hi ALl,

It there any option to play MP3?
Can the CD Changer play CDR or CDRW disk?

Thanks.

rockribbed · March 2002

My C230K has 7800+ miles and the only time it needed to be in the service department was to replace a R driving light rendered useless when a medium sized raccoon knocked it loose from its bracket (I paid $300+, raccoon paid with his life). I get 25mpg with spirited driving on twisty rural two lanes, 30+mpg when crusing at 70mph avg.

My only complaint is that a set of golf clubs will not fit in the trunk with the rear seats up. The car does everthing I want of it, it does it with efficiency, and it does it with no problems. To have a little fun with it, turn the esp off: it'll lay nice twin streaks of rubber down said twisty rural roads, and cruise them at 65 to 80 mph without hysterics.

Mad's problems are NOT typical of my findings. I am WELL pleased with my Benz.

jjpeter · March 2002

Have not heard from Madeline now that her claims were questioned. I wonder if it was above board or some sort of tactic to scare off the undecided to lean away from the C230. Our Kompressor has been flawless thus far, zero complaints!

huntzinger · March 2002

I know that there's a small red light over on or near the radio, but I can't even recall if it blinks while the car's turned on. I think its alarm system.

Which part of the dash is blinking?

-hh

lngtonge18 · March 2002

I know my mom's Audi A4 will blink a yellow warning at her from the info center in the gauge cluster after a certain length of time behind the wheel. It's to "warn" you to take a break and get out and stretch so you don't get too tired behind the wheel. A rather frivolous and retarded item if you ask me, but my mom thought it was cool her car told her to take a break, LOL. At least, she thought it was cool once she found out what it was. She called me on the side of the road asking me what the hell was wrong with her car and was about to freak out. Maybe Mercedes uses the same thing and this is what they are referring to? Was it on a long distance trip when it occured? My mom didn't see it until she drove it for 4 hours straight, which is the default timer setting.

huntzinger · March 2002

I know my mom's Audi A4 will blink a yellow warning at her from the info center in the gauge cluster after a certain length of time behind the wheel.

My wife's 2000 A4 does this as well.

My mom didn't see it until she drove it for 4 hours straight, which is the default timer setting.

I think my wife's first blink comes at 2 hours, and then every hour thereafter. Something like a ~10 minute break is what's required to reset it.

On the C230, I did a ~3.5 hours down + ~3.5 hours back jaunt a few weeks ago, and I don't recall seeing any sort of fatigue blinky warning thing.

-hh

dsackman · March 2002

Bryan Kemnitzer - www.kabolaw.com

Daniel

cokane5227 · March 2002

to me, and what i think only.
i don't believe any of the issues madeline have been telling. because just put the issues in basic logic, it's just not possible, maybe u can get a lemon, AND it started having problems on the FIRST day, AND u went bak to the dealership immdiately, i believe that the dealer would at least fix that problem for u because U JUST BOUGHT IT. maybe they won't fix anymore in the future, the on the first day, anybody would do a little favor. and secondly, u get a totally messed up car, and the dealer is telling u all kinds of crap, and MBUSA is hanging up on u? just look at the facts, has anybody ever encountered such problems? EVERYTHING goes wrong? EVERYTHING ?!?! and for her last post, it sounds like the dash blinked randomly, therefore it's probably not any kind of warning system, and i'm sure MBUSA is not STUPID enough to just agree with that. those people are smarter, they would give u trust-worthy reasons, although it's not true. if they lie, they would be good liars.
AND, is there any proof of her story? for MBUSA, has anybody ever talked to the person she said? is there really such a person? and where is the dealer madeline bought the car from? has anybody ever been there? who is the service advisor? has anybody ever got any bullcrap from the same service advisor?
and last, after reading all the messages for 20mins, her story just doesn't sound right, i don't have a reason for that, it's a simple feeling, it just doesn't sound right. after reading all the messages, i see a picture, a not-too-smart person sitting in front of the computer making up a story and feeling fun and good about it. it's a good story, but not perfect. AND IT JUST DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT TO ME.
and once again, to ME, and what I think only.

galaxygrrl · March 2002

You know, I called him and he took three weeks getting back to me, so I bagged him -- thought he was too flakey. Glad he worked out for you. I liked my attorney a lot, just wish he did not cost me $500.

Beth

huntzinger · March 2002

...and MBUSA is hanging up on u? just look at the facts, has anybody ever encountered such problems?

I had a dealership problem before I bought (went to another dealer) and I called MBUSA to ask what they suggested I do, if they wanted to know who their "bad apple" was, etc.

MBUSA didn't hang up on me, but they made it quite clear that they didn't want to know about a problem dealership, to possibly look into it further. Talk about apathy.

I sent in my car survey this AM, and I repeated my complaint in writing (about dealership #1, not #2). Shall we start to count the days until MBUSA tries to contact me for more information? I'm not holding my breath.

Unfortunately, overall Customer Service isn't like it used to be, so problems with MB may just be part of a larger trend. For example, I sent a "nastygram" off to Continental Airlines last night because their Frequent Flier email service blew me off: I asked for a rule interpretation and instead of answering the question, they said that they couldn't book a flight via email! Seems like people can't be bothered, or can't read plain english.

-hh

jjpeter · March 2002

Interestingly, I got a pricey package from MBUSA yesterday in the mail. We bought last October, and this was a thank you letter congratulating us on our purchase. Well, Ok, would have had a little more impact in say, November or December... Inside were two thick paged brochures, one marketing piece that said basically nothing, not even the mention of the new E-class. In fact it looked pre-C230 coupe, the model was not even shown in the full lineup of MB vehicles. So I know the hold up was not waiting for the latest stuff off the presses...

The other brochure was allllll the MB gizmos one can buy if you are really into flaunting your purchase with hats, shirts, jewelry and paper weights with the MB logo emblazed on them. All I can say is, if you are going to send this stuff off, which cannot be cheap to do, at least make it timely. I'm sure in Europe, where the awareness of "time to market" is much more acute, they would not have been this unaware and just stuffed an mailer with - what was available-.

nyccarguy · April 2002

They have a Green C230K with a 6 speed, C7 Wheels, & panorama roof at the auto show. The light green isn't that bad, I actually kinda liked it (That said I would never get it). I still really like the interior. Again, this isn't a driving impression, just from sitting in the car for a muinue or 2, the stick felt really flimsy & vague. I'll have to drive one to really get the feel of it.

sphinx99 · April 2002

I missed the fun, but that coffee comment sure seems low...

huntzinger · April 2002

...this isn't a driving impression, just from sitting in the car for a muinue or 2, the stick felt really flimsy & vague...

Nice to see that MB actually let people sit in the car this year. Last year's color was the "Paprica", and it was on a rotating stand with a good 6ft gap to the handrails all the way around.

Overall, I've found the shifter's gating to be pretty good. Mine is a bit tight when downshifting into 2nd; figure I'll let it wear in a bit more before scheduling an appointment for an adjustment - - nothing else wrong so far, so no real reason to worry about it for just one thing.

-hh

crikey · April 2002

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4776&sid=178&n=156

dsackman · April 2002

Rebekah,

I believe it would be fair to remove all "madcloyd"'s message as they are obvious fabrications. These fabrications give a slanted and untrue perspective on a reputable company and a fine motor vehicle.

Thank you,

Daniel

Mercedes-Benz CLK (2005 and earlier)

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