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where did you find this info?
Your telling me the epa estimates were conservative while 1stpik says the numbers were based on old epa estimates that were too generous.
1stpik's info seems to have more credibility to me eventhough I'd like nothing more than conclude there is a conspriacy.
btw: the website I provided said the 89 CRX HF had a 1.5 litre engine?? is that incorrect?
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/5263.shtml
The current numbers are absurdly low to make up for some complainers who don't know how to drive for good mileage.
Today's Civic is about the size of that era's Accord. So no wonder the new one weighs 900 pounds more!
And it isn't just the safety stuff. It is also the insulation, etc. that gives it a better, more quiet ride. And of course, the bigger size!
I had an '85ish CIvic hatch at one point. No idea about weight, but probably about 2,000. 1.5L I think, and moved just fine with a stick.
ALso had a Colt with 68 HP (that was doggy) and a 323 with 82 hp. That car, with a stick, was pretty quick, and just fine on the highway (all sticks). The 323 probably also was barely over 2K lbs.
Funny thing though, my 2005 Accord 5 speed gets almost the same highway (real world) mileage as the 323 did. Not quite the same around town, but not too far off.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's absurd to use isulation in today's car as a reason for the gas milege drop off. For all the weight in safety that's added to today's cars, shouldn't there be more efficient engines, better aerodynamics, lighter stronger frame materials?
I've seen way too much focus on horsepower and 0-60 mph measurements in the past 15 years. that's the beauty of higher fuel prices - people are focused more on fuel efficiency now.
sure they could put smaller engines in downsized cars, but the public hasn't been interested.
Use the Fit as an example. They could easily put out a 1.3L version with better MPG, but would anyone want to buy something so "underpowered", even though it could easily have ~100HP?
also, all the real light great mileage cars from back then (80s) were manuals, another hard sell today.
so, the makers could do it, they just didn't, since it isn't what people want to buy.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
in todays world? Yes! I think the people on the waiting list for hybrids would prove that. There's also been reports on how these older "under powered" vehicles are a hot item on the used car market.
I am glad to hear you write that it could easily be done. What I don't understand, is why isn't it being done!
McDonalds could make their food more healthy, but the masses seem to like it the way it is. That doesn't make it healthy for people or the planet - it just caters to an addiction of comfort. The same thing is going on with car makers. They have alot of say in shapping what people desire through marketing. I'd like to think that higher fuel prices will tilt the balance between consumption and comfort towards less consumption.
I guess it goes without saying that the 2009 Civic Si will have VSC, since my 2008 has it.
I think it's going to be pure speculation as to what models will and will not have it. For certain all cars in the US will have stability control in 2012 as it will be mandatory.
I need to buy a car (actually at least 2) before 2012.
This should help.
Until Honda and other car manfacturers figure out that people want the added safety of stability control at all price points we'll just have to deal with it. Wouldn't traction control help more than stability though....????
I think most dealers don't get all that much info in advance. I think the magazines probably get it sooner in many cases.
Why they keep details like seat height and stability control a secret until the last minute is beyond me. I guess it could prevent sales of older models. However there really aren't many 2008's left.
The dealers are price gouging so much right now. I doubt VSA will be on the Civic LX but who knows on the EX. The High end Fit will have VSA as long as you get Nav with it. :sick:
In this case, I think Honda should have announced a long time ago that only the highest-end Civic trims would have VSA. Then the people who might be waiting for a Civic (not the EX-L or Hybrid or Si) with VSA might have said, "Oh, what the heck!" and gone ahead and bought a 2008 Civic.
Good news at least the higher trim gets it this year.
I think in 2 years all the Civics will have VSA standard.
Another common problem is that the "rich" are assumed to be short (sunroofs take up a lot of headroom and the darn things are standard on almost all higher end Hondas - only reason I did not buy an ex-l).
Elantra SE and Touring (list prices starting around $17k)
Impreza 2.5i (list price starting around $17k)
Rabbit and Jetta (list price starting around $16k)
Sonata (list price after general rebate starting around $17k)
Sportage and Tucson (list prices after general rebate starting under $15k)
And ESC is widely available on inexpensive cars like the Corolla and SX4. I am probably forgetting some.
What is all the more galling is how Honda likes to tout safety. Sure, have all the safety gear you want... as long as you have over $20k to spend on your Civic. :sick:
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/
09 Civic Sedan is up but the coupe isn't up yet. Hybrid is up as well.