Ford Explorer Mercury Mountaineer 2005 and earlier

swschrad · September 2003

white-box stuff, funny names from nowhere, etc.

OEM sometimes is the only quiet and sure choice on some cars. the major, traditional brake makers such as Autolite (fka Bendix), Raybestos, and Wagner come to mind as sources worth trying. there are multiple grades of pads for each car from most makers... if there are 3 or 4, for instance, the cheapest ones are what you put on to sell a car that has rotten brakes. they won't last and probably won't satisfy. top line is usually high-ceramic content and the surest stop, but may be noisy and rough on rotors. just below the top grade may be the best value IMHO.

I will readily admit I stayed with OEM top-grade my last 4 brake jobs over two vehicles, and had no rotor replacements, one creepy caliper replaced, and no comebacks for noise, nastiness, or pulling. both were trucks, and the brake system was made a little tougher than the beer-can products that seem to be showing up on some cars for cost and weight (thus fuel) savings.

a good brake mechanic is a find indeed, no matter where you go... when you find one, stay with him. if you are using a good independent shop and like the results, it's probably OK to let 'em loose on yours. I like to look on the wall for the training certificates myself, and ask to be sure Willie Soberup is not the guy doing my brakes when I.B. Champ has the Acar certificate.

lrmet2 · September 2003

2002 Mountaineer - V8, AWD, tow package.
Right after starting it, drive down the road and I hear a buzzing sound from the engine compartment. Engine has to be under load, and the harder it's working, the louder the buzz. Let off the gas and it goes away, put engine under load and it comes back. It slowly dies down after you've gone 2-3 miles and goes away. If I let the car warm up in the driveway for 5 minutes, it's not there.

Anyone else heard this before or had it checked?
Any ideas on how to have this checked?

nvbanker · September 2003

If you can't duplicate the noise while in neutral, or in drive with brake on, giving it some gas, but no motion of the car, then you may have the front axle problem, not an engine issue.

ANT14 · September 2003

There could be many issues pertaining to this, but one that I'm throwing out there, is how about transmission? Some vehicles have quite an audible transmission whine (Many trannies matched with the Ford's 3.0L Vulcan OHV V-6).

Start the car cold, place it in neutral, see if you hear the noise, rev it a bit see if you hear it again. Try this and let me know.... I'm trying to do process of ellimination here.

tjf2000 · September 2003

I had a 2002 mountaineer with the exact same options as yours, when cold I would get the buzzing noise. It would disappear after it was warm. Mine was very load between 1500 and 2000 rpm. After many trips to the dealer they could never solve it, but they could duplicate the noise. The noise was coming from place behind the tach in the dash. Months later Ford bought it back due to other problems. My 2003 Mountaineer is just great no problems, 7 months old and 26,000 trouble free miles. Good luck.

lrmet2 · September 2003

TJF2000,

What other problems? I just got back from the dealer. This time we needed a new battery. Owned the vehicle for a year and a half and the new battery is bad. We're under the 36,000 mile warranty so battery was free. I'm wondering if the 2003 was improved over the 2002 and has all the wrinkles worked out of it.

What did you have to pay for the 2003?
I would think it was the difference in price between the 2002's value and the 2003.

fx4 · September 2003

nvbanker--with reference to the subject and other posts, we ended up buying a new red with parchment interior V-8, 4wd, XLT Explorer, with T/T and 3.73, no third row seat, safety canopy.

The level cargo area and additional cargo space you get without the third row seat was a must for her. The selcetion in the 2003 Mercury Mountaineer was then extremely limited due the third row being standard. With a lot of effort, I did find 4 to 5 third row seat delete models in Mountaineer , but not the exact vehicle we were looking for.

Even though we bought the Explorer, we were the most pleasantly surprised by the Mountaineer models. It is a shame that such very nice inventory has been on the lots in many cities for 12 months or more. Even the 4.0L V-6 that seemed weak in the 4wd Explorer seemed OK in the V-6 AWD Mountaineer. Difference?

There seems to be definite market resistance to the AWD in Explorer. True all over USA? I called about one V-6 XLT AWD in WV that had the safety canopy that was early "A" VIN inventory (built about July 2002 ?). D/T model that the dealer would not discount. Many of the regional dealers have too much Explorer AWD inventory in the pricey E/B and Limited models. Many of the older Ford dealers gave thumbs down to Explorer AWD, apparently due to past 5.0L AWD vibration and poor gas mileage. From my research, these two previous drawbacks seem to no longer exist and the AWD is excellent in 2003-2004 Explorer models in both V-6 and V-8. Any comments?

tjf2000 · September 2003

I had a very bad vibration problem that started on the drive home with my new 2002 Mountaineer (back in August of 2002), it was back in the shop for 2 days... it was not a great way to start new ownership. The vibration problem could not be solved (after 4 months and 17k miles)so Ford bought back the 2002 and exchanged it for a 2003 Mountaineer. My dealer in the Boston area was great help during those tough months. The 2003 has been a real joy, no problems at all. This one does not have the towing package and I miss the oomph off the line that the towing package (3:73 vs 3:55 rear end ratio) gave you.

Kirstie_H · September 2003

If you've recently bought or are shopping for a used domestic vehicle, a reporter working on a front page story for a major midwestern newspaper is hoping to talk with you asap. Please respond with your daytime contact info by 5pm Eastern Tuesday, September 30 to jfallon@edmunds.com. Thanks!

swschrad · September 2003

not here. the dealers don't stock a lot of AWD because it's a harder sell; "Four-by" just sounds more manly I guess.

AWD is a darn sight better for the 99% of buyers who want to go on snow and don't want to wallow through the mud like a hog on a mission.

it's many long years of selling what they had to folks who couldn't use it right that led to this. 4WD on a dry road is nasty.

fx4 · October 2003

Post #1573--we are on Ford suv number 10 and T/B number 3. It is hard to believe, but my daughter's 1997 T/B, 4.6L that was built in September 1996 still has the original battery, 115,000 miles. This is after a major fender bender near the battery's location. Similar very long life with the 650 and 850 CCA Ford batteries on Broncos, Expeditions, Explorers. Even the best Die-Hard, Douglas, Deka, or Exide will short out now and then for no apparent reason per my brother who is a veteran auto parts store owner and marine dealer. Ford OEM batteries have been no exception. Helps to inspect straps and other tie-downs from time to time.

Post # 1575-we had been looking at the 4.0L V-6 AWD and 4wd in Explorer and AWD in Mountaineer and came to the same conclusion about the 3.73 ratio versus the std. 3.55. However, most of my test drives were after arriving in the high torque 5.4L in 2003 Expedition. Thus, neither of the ratios offered much in the way of driving comfort torque in 4.0L Explorer/Mounatineer. Her 4.0L in the 2001 4wd Explorer Sport 2D always had plently of power, but not so in the heavier 4-door models.

sebring017 · October 2003

I need some help with a problem I'm having with my new 2002 Mercury Mountaineer. I had taken my car to the dealership because the cds in my 6-disc cd player was jammed and I couldn't get them out. They replaced the cd player and I had requested for them to return the cds once they got them out. That was 2 months ago. I constantly had to be calling them to get my property back, but their reply was we are working on locating your cds. Finally after 2 months they said that they could not locate them and would reimburse me for my lost cds. Problem Resolved. I took it last weekfor an oil change, an alignment, and to get the brakes checked because it was vibrating when I applied the brakes. Well I got my truck back and the service technician told me the brakes were fine and they shouldn't have anymore problems. WRONG! As soon as I drove off the lot the car was vibrating again. I took it back to the dealership for a 2nd time and I was told my brakes were rusted and had deep pits and they would replace it for free since it was under warranty. I picked it up again. Now the car vibrates at about 40-60 mph. I have called Mercury Corporation and placed a negative feedback against the dealership and am having to go to the dealership for the 3rd time in the same week. Is there any advice anyone can give me on how to get my truck repaired completely?? I love my truck, but if this is the headaches I have to deal with everytime I take it to the shop I would rather get something else. All I want is my truck fixed and driving how it was driving when I first bought it. If anyone can help me out please post something on this board or email me directly at Sebring017@aol.com. Thanks

wijoco · October 2003

Well, the first thing you should do, of course, is to continue to give the dealer negative feedback. That always helps the relationship. Have you considered that the problems with your car are not the fault of the dealership, but the Ford factory that built them? The dealer is trying to repair the mistakes Ford made originally, so your real fight involves you+dealer technicians vs Ford Motor Corporation, not the other way around.
As a general rule, if a car vibrates only while braking, you have warped rotors. A vibration at any speed without braking is often an imbalanced tire, wheel, or other running gear. When you talk to the service writer about a problem like this, you need to have a long list of conditions that create the annoyance: Speed, direction of front wheels, outside temperature, amount of driving time, frequency of occurence, etc. It's not a bad idea to have everything pre-written on a note that the writer can pass along to the technician. On tough driveability problems, which vibrations can be, it's just as much your responsibility to provide information as it is the tech's responsibility to repair the problem.

sebring017 · October 2003

Thanks for the advice. The thinks that really gets me is how I tell them there is a problem and I have to take it back again for them to realize the brakes were rusted. This a problem they could have seen the first time and could have saved us both the headaches. Now that they did that it seems like more problems are starting to appear such as the vibration at 40-60 mph and also now a noise that seems to be coming from the right rear tire area. I have checked the door and closed the window all the way. Hopefully the problem is resolved and I won't have to contact someone concerning lemon laws on these matters. Thanks for your help and I will post and update tomorrow to let everyone know how it went.

nvbanker · October 2003

While I agree with you, that "playing nice" with the service department always is good policy, I don't know if I completely agree that it's not their fault Sebring is having trouble with his car. Frankly I have more trouble with my car AFTER service than what I bring it in for, more times than not. I'm just patient, if I think they're trying. Often, I get the "check-no problem found", which I understand means the computer found no error code. But I still have a malfunction anyway. Takes 2 more trips, often with the service writer on a ride along. That works well, sebring, by the way. Invite your service writer to go with you and show him/her what's wrong. They seem to get more invested in your problem that way, and are reluctant to give you the car back until they're convinced the mechanic has fixed it. Also, they will often refer the car to Quality Control after repair to assure it is corrected as well. I have good experience with that.

Sebring, is there another Ford dealer in your town? Some service departments are much better than others, you know. May wanna try someone else. Lastly, making a friend in there is helpful, because things do go wrong. I have a good friend as a service adviser after all these years. I am friends with one of the mechanics, my salesman, the head parts guy and the General Manager. I get what I need there, eventually. Including a job for my son recently. Juice works. It has taken 11 years to build up this kind of relationship there, but it helps.

wijoco · October 2003

"Frankly I have more trouble with my car AFTER service than what I bring it in for, more times than not."

I'll assume that's an exagerration for effect since it's not even mathematically possible.

I said nothing about "playing nice." The dealer did not create the wind noise problem, the rear end whine, or the source of the brake problem. Yes, the best course of action would have been to replace the rotors the 1st time, but right now Ford technicians are not allowed to use their best judgemnt. FMC has an idiotic set of "cost-cutting" new repair procedures which were thought up by suits in a boardroom that severely limits the amount of labor time their techs will be paid for. To compensate for this, Ford revised their diagnostic procedures to essentially a shotgun approach, which of course costs the company more money in replacing multiple parts that weren't defective to begin with, but you can't teach anything to an MBA who already knows everything. The mechanic may have been following Ford procedure by simply resurfacing the rotors and wasn't allowed to replace them on the first try. I don't know for sure, but it's likely. This is why I say it's you+Ford mechanic vs FMC. If you feel the dealer isn't competent, pick up and try another dealer. Negative feedback and lemon laws won't get your car fixed.

ANT14 · October 2003

If anything, don't ever threaten a dealer with a lemon law suit (or the manufacturer for that reason) untill all means have been exhausted. What this does is make them STOP their efforts at that point, and even slow down any probability they are willing to work with you... As in, they are afraid that any more contact, or effort from their part, might make them seem guiltier.

As stated earlier, if a dealer isn't addressing your issue in a correct manner, or your not satisfied, try another dealer. The dealerships themselves have other factors, and issues to consider each and every time a vehicle is brought in for repair. Issues where it's not entirely their fault, and some other's that's not the fault of the manufacturer. When dealing with a situation that requires you going in again to rectify the problem, make sure you get the service manager's name, above him, the dealership manager. And keep this information where it might be needed in the future.

Hostility and attitude will just get you that, right back so it's not the time for doing so. Dry sarcasm might work a bit, but mainly on Ford's regional directors when your dealing with them on the phone. But not in an insulting way, for they might actually make it even worse on you.... WHEN to get ugly? When you have contacted Ford's regional personel and they actually tell you that NOTHING can be done about it... At that point you have pretty much exhausted EVERY possible opportunity, THEN you can threaten them with a lemon law suit... This is the ONLY level that such a threat would be vaible and correct to do. Just make sure all the bottom rungs of the ladder have been stepped on already.

nvbanker · October 2003

Being a business owner, I can tell you ANT is right. Attitude gets me mad, courtesy gets you anything.

ANT14 · October 2003

I think it's just common sense. Just like these people at restaurants, who [non-permissible content removed] whine and complain about their food. Just picky eater's complaining about it being too hot, or too cold, or too spicy... I just shake my head wondering "WOW they are REALLY going to spit on your food"... Hence, SAVE the complains at the end, when your done paying your bill. That's proper ettiquette.

Or even when some people decide on going to BK, or McD's for some fast food. They get complicated with the drive thru order "cut it in half, no pickles, no onions, no ice, no this, no that"... I'm just in the car shaking my head "They will STILL get it wrong, your slowing us down and everyone behind us, is it REALLY that hard to just fetch it out of the damn burger yourself"... But that's ok, I keep mine simple.

Some situation with service departments. I usually get dragged along when a fellow friend has an issue with their vehicle. Two dealerships in my area I'm already known by a first name basis... No hostility, just a "Hey I'm back again, for the 8th time but it's VW, what are we to expect"..

Even nice enough to buy the the auto tech's pizza and such, and it's those small details that count. Later on when there's an issue, I can "butt" in front of everyone else that had an appointment, the vehicle is given priority status, and we are out of there quickly as opposed to the fools who came in with a bad attitude earlier that day.

There's a few things to take into consideration.

A) Your dealing with a human being, they have feelings too even if your fuming.

Treat them, as you wish they would treat you, respect goes as long way, being nice and sweet takes your farther.

C) Details, leave a lasting impression. Order pizza or soft drinks for them (a few dollars out of your pocket can save you MUCH time in the future and will get you positive attention).

D) They didn't BUILD your vehicle, don't blame them for breakdowns or parts, or the manufacturer issue. Blame the little kid getting paid $.10 an hour in china for assembling the part.

E) Be positive, entrust them and keep repeating phrases such as "I trust you to fix this as quickly as possible"...."I have faith in you that your able to rectify this issue for me", etc. You pretty much putting a psychological burden on them... if they aren't able to fullfill the issue, it's going to be embedded in them the rest of the day for not having done more.

F) Remember people's name. The service manager, the person that attended you. Keep calling them by their name whenever you need to address them, make it a point you remembered their name. This usually works quite well in peoples inner conscience

explorerx4 · October 2003

have an '02 eb. my just 'converted' bro in law (lifelong chevy guy) came over with his new explorer, xlt loaded up, nice truck. was asking me if i knew where to get a mat that covers all the way across row 2. he's not looking for a fancy one; kids play football and get in with their muddy spikes. sometimes you just have to get from a to b, and worry about the details later. can anyone help?

swschrad · October 2003

there is probably a ford parts full-width mat set.

but frankly, why mung up those costly mats with cleats and/or spikes and mud and grass and perhaps a bleeder or two every season? get a chunk of indoor/outdoor carpet or fake-grass, cut to fit, and throw it back there during the season. when that's over, throw it away and put the real mats in until the two-a-days start again.

I'd also throw a couple beach towels over the back seat and take the bunch all out for slurpees to reinforce the notion that it isn't hate, it's just now none of us have to be really worried about messing up the car while we're dirty.

I sewed a bedliner out of 5-buck-a-yard blue IO carpet for my new 90 ranger, filled in underneath with old scraps of felt pad left in the halls after the apartment hallways were recarpeted, and didn't worry about the loads I had from time to time. a few places where I stuck myself with #2 glover needles may still be bleeding, though, I just don't want to look....

sepbuy · October 2003

www.performanceproducts.com has 2 or 3 different full width rear seat floormats. Also, I think I saw one at Pep Boys automotive store.

gregb5 · October 2003

Try HUSKYLINERS. They make plastic "trays" that will do what you need.

mfitzsimmons · October 2003

The 4x4 high and 4x4 low indicator lights on the dash flash on and off while running. I also cannot engage the 4 wheel drive. Is there something that I can check myself to trouble shoot this or do I need to take it to a dealer.

swschrad · October 2003

but of course, you will need a code reader, or will need to get to autozone or csk to have them pull the codes as a sales driver action.

the issues could range a wide gamut, from a gunked-up connector or mode switch, to a munged transmission needeing a rebuild.

fx4 · October 2003

I have a 2003 Expedition FX4 which weighs in at somewhere around 5,800 lbs. with a full tank of gas. It does well towing and travel, etc. and it gets very good fuel mileage given its weight.

My question is why does the vehicle feel so "heavy" to me day in day out? Am I feeling the FX4 off road shocks or maybe the variable rate power steering assist? Or is it as I suspect just an over weight suv that I am never going to get used to. I just came out of 87,000 miles in a 4wd, 5.4 L, 2000 Expedition and prior to that 4 new Broncos ranging from 1981 to 1995 year models. I am a very high skill driver with 42+ years now as licensed driver. Approaching a million miles in Ford suvs? Overall exterior size of the vehicle not a problem at all. Again, very high experience level on and off road, towing, urban communting, parking garages, etc.

As a Navigator owner, do you have the feeling that the 2003 model Navigator is an absolute heavyweight like I am describing? I don't ever read posts on this subject and never got a response when I mentioned it earlier. The dealer just looks at me like I'm nuts when I tell him I just cannot get used to the 5,800 pounds no matter what. Picky driver he says. Looking to go to lighter 2wd Expedition or Explorer/Mountaineer, or something?

P.s. I've got the sinking feeling that Ford has set in motion this overweight problem with their
new 2004 F-150 models and may regret it soon.

swschrad · October 2003

and the 2002 nav also felt OK when I tested one a couple years ago.

rent a dump truck, and see if that doesn't make the nav feel better

nothing discussed on this thread is going to handle like a miata or a Z-car.

ANT14 · October 2003

There's a few factors that contribute to the feeling your experiencing. Weight equals solidity which the vehicle gained during it's redesign. So your probably feeling the vehicle be ponderous because of it's overall solidity and increased NVH

You could try filling half your tank and see if this perception improves any. I've always have had a habit of feeling my gas tanks of any vehicle, half way mainly to remove some of the dead weight. BUT keep it full only during raining season, for added traction over the rear drive wheels.

fx4 · October 2003

Thanks for the reply. Ponderous. Good usage.

That would be increased attention to NVH and decreased NVH?

As I mentioned before on some post, the FX4 is almost too quiet for its own good. A noticeable general whine underneath the FX4 is dominant when the radio is off. In other words other parts the vehicle do not match up to a super quiet environment the FX4 starts to have versus regular XLT in say 2wd. Bottom line is the olde Expedition ain't no Lexus. Ha! The quieter interior of the FX4 (this is post duct tape at the bottom of the doors to keep cladding quiet) seems to be from the skid plate package, the 4X4 works that shields road noise, and even the cloth seats. The 2wd 2003 model XLT Expeditions that I tried had much more general road noise mixed in with wind noise off the mirrors at speed (all do) and some of the above general whine. There is a considerable difference in inside quietness inside between the FX4 and 2wd XLT. XLT in 4wd is somewhere in between. Assume E/B models are quieter than the FX4 or XLT models? Dont know.

Thanks again for your post.

P.s. Waiting on the ultimate insight from nvbanker. Ha!

jcarpi · October 2003

I've owned two previous Explorer XLTs, the 1992, and the 1998. We are looking to replace the 1998 with another Explorer, but we are concerned about the ground clearance. We take these cars on the beach, so need to be able to avoid getting bogged down in deep sand (and need 4Lo), and also to the mountains skiing, so need good traction and ground clearance there too. I am not a soccer mom, and use the Explorer like it was originally meant to be used, for hauling, carrying, and getting where we need to go when the going gets bad. Has anyone out there been on beach in one of these newer models? How about deep snow? Thanks a lot.

1sttimevolvo1 · October 2003

Check the specs here on Edmunds site as for ground clearance info........go to New Cars and select the make and model, then click the `specs' bar. It usually lists all that type of stuff.

dtownfb · October 2003

The Explorer was never meant to be a true off road vehicle but rather an alternative to the station wagon.

Having said that,` the current Explorer has 8.5 inches of ground clearance and should be plenty on the beach. I have a 96 Explorer with AWD and was down on the OUterBanks in NC 5 years ago and got around fine on the beach.

explorerx4 · October 2003

fx4 - it will never be a drag racer, but how many miles do you have on it? my 2k expy took a long time to loosen up. 8, 10, 12K? can't remember.

jcarpi - the new explorer is about the same size and weight as the original design, better 4wd system. tires can make a big difference.

okmom · October 2003

I took our 2000 Mt'neer V8 AWD(30k miles) to Ford dealer 10 days ago for the recall.
I have "the Works" job also.
They said we need new brakes, $210.
I called Mercury dealer, they say brake job is $150.
So I made an appointment for next Monday.

My husband noticed the awful squeaks sound from front end and back seat area.
Sound like the Suspension is going bad.

I took the car back to Ford, they think either tie rod end or ball joint is bad.

Have ever anyone need new tie rod end or ball joint at 30k miles?

How they get bad?
How much for replacement?
(We don't have extend warranty)

We have/had other cars, we never need to get new tie rod end or ball joint before.
Our other cars never needed new brakes before hit 60K.

My husband thinks the Ford dealer damaged it,
so we will let Mercury dealer to fix it when we get new brakes.

Is it norm for AWD?

Any input will be appreciated.

Thank you.

P.S. We move from OK to NY...
We are shock to see high gas price here.
We only get 15.8 mpg, mostly on highway.
Anyone use the engine treatment to improve the mileage?

swschrad · October 2003

none whatsoever. you want better mileage, get a dinky car with a dinky engine. weight needs power to move it, power requires a certain amount of chemical conversion (burning) of fuel to move the weight, and that's the first law of thermodynamics taken from the physics class and put on the street.

around 16 is what I get with merging, passing, and the rest on the highway. it won't get better unless you can drive with a raw egg taped to the gas pedal and one taped to the brake pedal, and can drive in traffic without breaking the eggs.

explorerx4 · October 2003

check your tire pressues, and make sure they aren't too low. i've always run 30+. make sure the air filter is clean. short trips will kill your mileage. speed makes a difference too.

nvbanker · October 2003

I had a 99 Navigator that was drop dead perfect for 5 years and 65,000 miles. That's what I sold when I got my 03. I do understand what you're feeling, but I like it fine. It is different, but IMO, the difference is in the rack & pinion steering, which transmits the road feel very well, without being too heavy. Also, the Independent Rear Suspension eliminates the live axle heave when going over a bump, and levels out the turns. The net effect seems to be less trucky, more ride like Town Car. The car feels a little less nimble than my 99 did, but much more solid. Trade off I guess. I didn't realize how much difference that IRS made until I took a ride in my pals Jeep Grand Cherokee, and nearly got heaved into another county on a speed bump taken at an angle.

Will you get used to it or like it? I don't know. If you can't, there's a Yukon out there for ya with very similar characteristics to your old Expy, with reciprocating ball steering (circa 1939), a live axle (from the Model T era), and as an added bonus, an all pushrod engine designed in the 50's. Amazingly, they make a pretty nice handling truck when all put together.

I'm totally satisfied with my Nav.

shawnski · October 2003

We recently traded my wifes' '01 CR-V in on a 03 Mountaineer. Although the CR-V is a well-made product, we never quite bonded with its sterile personality (me), "SUV wannabe" (wife).

Anyway we looked at:

'03 Envoy-Nice looking exterior, busy boxy dash (GM...) and compared to the Merc it was $1000 more and lacked the room (of course there is the ungainly XL version) plus the Merc had the V8 and DVD (kids). Yes the Envoy has more HP but less torque and a flat engine note (the Merc's all aluminum 4.6 sounds very sweet) plus the overall room is really no larger than the CR-V.

'04 Toyota 4-Runner. I really wanted to like this because of its no-nonsense 4x4 approach and sporty looks. After test driving it perhaps we would have seriously considered it if we had no kids, as it just did not have the convenience features and versatility the Merc had.

'04 Honda Pilot-the fact that these are hard to find meant no test drive. I did talk with an acquaintance that did purchase one and he sounded kind of like me about the CR-V; well-made yes, but lacks the luxuries we take for grated with American Iron. Beside its looks like a large CR-V, and from what I read it handles soft and overall not very responsive (again like our loyal and cold CR-V).

'03-'04 Explorer-virtually the same as the Mountaineer less the lower end models. Would have looked at an EB V8 had ther been any...

The Merc was not aforgone conclusion; first of all I don't think the current Explorer/Mountaineer are very exciting to look at-very boxy and unimaginative, and I was prepared to (god forgive me) to buy (ugh) a GM product if it proved superior. However the execution of the Envoy was so typical of GM, big ugly dash, but on the floor driving position, and cramped back seat. Oh they will sell you a preposterous XL version that gives you a third row seat, but the second row still seemed cramped to me.

Now the Merc SUV is a heck of a buy IMO. In addition to giving a high commanding sense of the road seating position, precise steering with a firm ride, smooth and powerful V8/5-speed, the best seats I have every sat in a Ford product, nice interior textures/colors, roomy second seat and 3rd seat if needed all wrapped up in a reasonably sized (if boxy) body.

It is no wonder the Explorer remains the best selling SUV, it simply provides a great package, just make sure you look at the underrated Mountaineer as it has an extra dash of class.

nvbanker · October 2003

Nice write up and good analysis IMO. Except that I really like the exterior design of the Mountaineer. From the cascading grille and windswept headlight treatment, to the conservative and tasteful rear end. I think it's one of the best looking SUVs on the road. Congratulations on your purchase, and you did good with the V-8. Wish ours had it.

4apexs2 · October 2003

Am considering Sirius radio option on a 04 EB. Has anyone got this installed yet - comments on use, performance, cost?
Thanks in advance..

richard90 · October 2003

I am experiencing engine problems (V8 4.6L SOHC)on my 2002 MM that has just over 45K miles. I noticed a ticking noise, and then the "service engine soon" light went on. I took it to a LM dealer, and their first impression was that it was a serious issue, possibly a bent rod. It's in the shop right now, so I'm waiting for the final diagnosis. I'd like to know if anyone else has experienced a similar problem, especially with such low mileage. This is the fifth serious problem that I've had with this vehicle. Thanks!

shawnski · October 2003

nvbanker, I will agree with the looks of the underrated Mountaineer is growing on me. I do not know why most would need a larger SUV IMO as it is deceptively large and accomidating.

BTY, you stated that you wish you had the V8, don't feel to bad really the 4.0 SOHC is a good engine (I drive an '01 Sporttrac, MM is wife's) and it pulls my project car (3000 lbs) with no problem. While the V8 is melodic in its alto voice, the 4.0 is actually less busy sounding than the SOHC V8 as it appears to operate an octave or two below and thus mellower sounding.

The only notable difference in terms of performance is at elevated passing situations were the extra oonmph of the V8 is at an advantage over the otherwise gutsy 4.0.

nvbanker · October 2003

shawnski: I agree with you - in fact, did a little towing with my Mountaineer last week, and was surprised at how well it did with the extra load on back. The V-8 is more fun, and sounds great, but not necessary. I would still get it though, for the fun.

richard - never heard of such a problem before. Did you happen to get an extended warranty? Sorry! & Good luck.

gpz1 · October 2003

shwanski: I also ditto your post on the quality of the 4.0 V6/5 speed auto combination. We just purchased a 2003 MM Premier V6 and traded a 99' MM with the old 302 V8. The 99' MM V8 was a great vehicle and was still perfect at 67,000 miles. We tested both a 2003 V8 Premier and the V6 Premier and we chose the V6 Premier. We are not going to tow anything and we live near sea level. We also felt the V6 was quieter overall as far as sound in the vehicle is concerned. I also felt that the shifts in the transmission were less apparent in the V6 than with the V8. The V8 seemed to shift out of OD sooner and more often than the V6. In my opinion, the V8 rumble is sweet sounding, but it is also more evident to your rear passengers. Actually, the V6 in my 2003 V6 Premier is so quiet overall, you literally do not notice the engine hardly at all, especially at highway speeds. My wife averaged approximately 13-14mpg on the 99' V8 MM around town. She is averaging around 16mpg city with the new 2003 V6 Premier. We will easily average 20-21 mpg per the trip computer on the highway at 70mph plus. Overall, I feel the MM is the best value of any SUV on the market based on the content (roll over side airbags are a great feature) that you get and more so, after you consider that you can get $10,000 plus off the sticker on a 2003. We seriously considered a 2003 Aviator, but the worse mileage and Premium fuel requirement along with no heated seats and a hand knob - manual dimming mirror turned us off. And the Aviator still would have been almost $10,000 more than the 2003 Mountaineer Premier. I am also wondering why the mileage rating on the 2004 MM V6 was decreased to 15/19 from 15/20 in the 2003 MM? Both the V6 and V8 motors work great in the MM/Explorer - I am happy that they continue to offer both motors, since both motors are unique in their driving characteristics and offer options to those of us who want the extra power and rumble/sound of the V8 or the anonymity and quietness of the V6. Drive a new MM/Explorer and you'll see why they continue to be the best selling SUV's on the planet.

nvbanker · October 2003

I wonder why the Aviators you looked at had no heated seats. The ones here have heated and cooled seats available.

gregb5 · October 2003

There is a problem with certain 4.6L V8s that concerns a ticking noise coming from the left side cylinder head. It is supposedly more pronounced with the hood down through the wheel well than with hood up. Your service dept should be able to determine if that's the problem. It should be replsaced under warranty.

jkunya · October 2003

I have a 2002 XLS Explorer which does not have the lighted sun visors, which my wife would like to have. Does anyone know if it is possible to replace the factory non-lighted visor with a factory lighted visor and have it work? In other words, is the electrical connection readily available? Would there be any other concerns? Really like the SUV so far! Thanks.

explorerx4 · October 2003

the heated/cooled seats are in the 'premium' model; about 2700 more the the base model.
i was interested in one until i saw that.

gregb5 · October 2003

I doubt you'll find the electrical connection ready to go. I added fog lights to my early production '02 XLT and thought they might be there since the EB and Limited models had them. No wires. The kit that Ford sold me had everything in it, though. I had to run the wires from the lights to a battery connection, to the switch location and add the relays. It seems that they don't waste anything they aren't using on a particular vehicle anymore.

swschrad · October 2003

and that always makes sense, even when the economy is going good

Ford Explorer Mercury Mountaineer 2005 and earlier

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