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Ford Explorer Mercury Mountaineer 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,293
    i would leave the gps unit on, then check it about an hour later. i think you will have your answer.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    green pilot light is on, at least you know that the line is live with voltage...now, if I put a radio on the wire, but the radio is off, then the line is live, but the radio is off, so no power drain (altho the pilot light itself is a tiny drain on the battery...if left like that in an airport for six weeks, you could return to a dead battery)

    I would unplug the cord, or stick it into a power outlet that is connected to the ignition switch, rather than a live plug 24/7...
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Teh always live cigarette lighter (power point) is one of the best features of Ford vehicles. I want it that way. For example,I want my cell phone to charge when the car is off, not just when it is on.

    The tiny amount of power going to the turned-off GPS unit would be an issue only if you had the car parked for a long time.
  • bjohnrinibjohnrini Member Posts: 3
    >>The tiny amount of power going to the turned-off GPS unit would be an issue only if you had the car parked for a long time.

    And what exactly is considered a long time?

    >>I would unplug the cord, or stick it into a power outlet that is connected to the ignition switch, rather than a live plug 24/7...

    How would I go about connecting it to the ignition switch?

    Thanks
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    Bought a 2003 XLT last night with 26k miles :) Salesman bumped the certified warranty to cover 55 more components and I kicked in another $320 to cover 29 more like power window regulators etc. It is a V6 with sunroof, rear air, adjustable pedals, skipped the 3rd row. I think I got a good deal -- $19,800 before tax and title.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    and a good decision too. On the 03, you get a little known added bonus also - your spare is mounted on a matching Alloy wheel - not a black steel wheel, allowing you to integrate your spare into the tire rotation. Only the 03's have that.
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    Thanks -- did not know that! Haven't finished going through the owner's manual yet. In the end, I could not find an '04 that wasn't a rental with the options I wanted. So even though I wanted the extra secuirty features from 2004, I went with the '03.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,293
    i didn't know if the power point shut off after time, like the interior and puddle lights lights, etc...
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    It doesn't, but unless you have a refrigerator plugged into it, it won't kill your battery. Charging a phone or something takes no power from a battery of that size.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Not to throw rain on your parade, but you paid 20 grand for a 3 year old vehicle. A BRAND NEW XLT can be had for $27,000 or so after all the rebates. Although that's about 35% more cash upfront, the miles-per-car would have been cheaper on the brand new vehicle.
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    I had no desire to spend an extra 8k after sales tax just to say I have a brand new car that will rapidly depreciate soon as I drive it off the lot. Go try to make someone else feel bad -- I'm happy with my choice.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,293
    i have 45k on my '02. going to replace the goodyear ap tires next week. they are rated for 45k miles, i think. getting close to the wear bars and i have some long family trips planned over the next few months. the brakes still seem fine, so all i have paid for is the regular maintenance stuff. i did have the tranny flushed at 30k and will have it done again at 60k.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Some cars now have more than one powerpoint outlet...the cig lighter and one other...often one may be live 24/7, and the other only live when ignition is on...I believe my 2000 Sable or my 2000 Intrepid had that feature, the cig lighter was disabled when ignition turned off, so I could charge my cell phone when driving, but not when parked and off...I liked it that way...
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Discount Tire has the new Goodyear Fortera in size 245/70-16 for $540 per set of four, with a $540 rebate, for a total of $490. They also have that tire in the new Limited size - 245/65-17, and I think it is the tire my new Explorer will have.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    I wasn't trying to make you feel bad just to irritate you. But I was pointing out that
    you way overpaid for a 3 year old car in the long run. If you keep your 3 year old vehicle for another 3 years then buy yet another 3 year old vehicle, you will have spent MORE than if you just bought the brand new vehicle at today's rock bottom price of $27,000 (about $3000 less than they were selling for 3 years ago new, by the way).

    The 8 grand you think you "saved" was merely deferred and was being penny wise/pound foolish. Now if you could have bought the XLT for $16,000 or even $17,000.....
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    Regardless, I did not have another 8 grand to spend for a brand new car! I intend to keep this one for more than 3 years.

    A certified used car with the features I got was valued at 19,600 by Edmunds, so I beg to differ about way overpaying...

    Maybe you should have sent me a check for that 8k first and I would have bought the 2005.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Edmunds is high. It always has been. I looked at Kelley Blue Book, (KBB.com) which has shown to be more reflective of the real world, and it's about $2 grand less. And even if you had bought for the much smarter Kelley price, the REAL VALUE still isn't there at today's fire-sale new vehicle prices (especially for a gas hog like Explorer...not a comment on Explorer...I have a Mountaineer...just a comment that these gas hogs can be bought NEW for firesale prices).

    Kelley shows that the dealer probably bought that vehicle for about $13000. He cleaned up, man! So MUCH MUCH MUCH more of your dollar went into dealer profit (to "instant depreciation heaven") than the 3% holdback plus a few hundred above the true rebate-included invoice you would ahve paid for a new vehicle.

    Let me put it another way. Let's say you keep your 26K mi vehicle until it hits 100,000 miles total. Or you could have bought a new vehicle and kept IT for 100,000 miles total. In this case, the new vehicle would have cost less per mile to operate. Buying a 2-3 year old vehicle, ESPECIALLY an American vehicle, is generally an EXCELLENT way to reduce that cost per mile. But in your case, you so way overpaid that you blew that advantage. Not to mention the uncertainty that comes with buying a used vehicle.

    You would have been better off financing the new vehicle for a longer period of time...it would have lasted that much longer anyway....than doing what you did. Again, the dealer paid about $13,000 and you way way way overpaid, Edmunds or not.

    Sure, you avoided $8K additional INITIAL OUTLAY, but to do that you accepted a reduction in the value of your used vehicle over new. Sort of like buying half a gallon of gas for $1.75 when a full gallon is $2.25. You "saved" 50 cents....NOT!
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    Interesting that the starting point at KBB for my zip code, mileage and options on the one I bought is $22,085. So to say my deal of $19,800 is way way too much seems flawed.

    Then again, you must be the expert so KBB.com and Edmunds.com are wrong.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    My KBB numbers are way lower than what you are suggesting. And perhaps KBB and Edmunds used vehicle prices don't yet reflect the huge firesale that they are now having on new vehicles. Again, 20 grand is too much to spend for a 3 year old vehicle when a brand new one can be had for 27. It's just that simple.
  • jcat707jcat707 Member Posts: 169
    As long as he is happy with the price he paid and happy with the vehicle itself, then that's the most important thing. :)
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    His happiness isn't the issue. The issue is that this is an internet bulletin board and we all learn from others. In this case, we can learn that the new vehicle was the better value based on his used vehicle deal.
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    Unless you have secret KBB data, then you're just wrong. SIMPLE AS THAT. Plug in the features, miles, certification and my zip and you'll see what a dealer would ask for the explorer.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Perhaps the certification is the difference. But, truthfully, it just adds bigtime to the price. A new vehicle gets the full 3/36 without addtional certification costs. You're better off WITH the certification than without, but the better value here STILL is the new vehicle.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Edmunds started out catering to consumers; Kelley started out as a dealer service. Which Kelley book do you mean - the consumer one or the subscription one that only dealers can get?

    What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?

    For daily auction and car lot trends on particular vehicles, check out the posts over in Real-World Trade-In Values.

    Steve, Host
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    I still got part of the original warranty then an upgraded extended warranty after that. When you add in sunroof, rear air, XLT package, and power seat/pedals those all increase the price, not to mention small adjustment for less than average miles. Being a leased vehicle, I feel more comfortable buying it used and certified rather than an '04 or '05 that was a fleet/rental car.

    Be thankful you can not think twice about spending an extra 7-8k for a new car. I'd rather get one slightly used and put the rest of my money to work.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Listen, I hear you that $7000-$8000 is a lot of money. I don't disagree that a 2-3 year old vehicle is generally the best way to buy a car...and then keep it until the wheels fall off or until unreliability cramps your lifestyle.

    Did you finance or pay cash?
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    Never finance or lease a depreciating thing such as a car. If you can't pay cash, don't buy the thing. You will never regret paying cash, buy may very regret financing. Remember, the banks and finance companies are selling something, and that something is high interest and the uncertainty or even misery which goes with having a loan obligation on a car, appliance, or other depreciating stuff.
  • moeharrimoeharri Member Posts: 108
    You do realize that most people don't have the kind of cash up front to buy almost any car, much less a $30k car, right??
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    If they do not have the cash, then they should not buy - no exceptions. They can make do with an old car, buy a less expensive used car, ride public transit, or ride with firends or associates. They key is to get off of the debt bandwagon. Once you start buying cars with cash, you probably will never again finance one.

    Once my 2006 Explorer comes in, somebody will find an excellent deal on my 2002 Mountaineer. I doubt it will sell for more than $10,000 in the current market, yet it should give many more years of good service (I would certainly keep it, save for the ride being rougher than I am willing to continue to tolerate for the 31,000 plus miles I drive every year).

    As another example, we sold our 1994 Thunderbird LX V8 in 2003 for $3,000. It had gone 120,000 miles, but looked and ran great. The buyer was a young relative of someone we knew through our work. He could not believe the excellent condition, and he was wisely starting his adult life without developing a dependency on consumer debt (I was not so smart). There are plenty of six to ten year old cars available for a few thousand dollars, and unless you drive far more than average annual distances, such a car should give several more years of good service.

    Once you get off of the consumer debt addiction and build up your income and savings, you will be able to buy brand new cars with cash.
  • moeharrimoeharri Member Posts: 108
    If they don't have the cash, do not buy? I think you are way off. Even a $10k car is hard to save up for for many families, unless you have a really good job and perhaps no house payment, children, etc. Vehicle dependability is very important to many people (especially me) and they are afraid of the unknown with a used car (warranties are nice, but it costs more money and still requires lots of time for frequent repairs). Also, most of the cities around me have no public transit, many people commute 35 minutes each way, etc. In a rosey world perhaps people would buy with cash, but there is nothing wrong with financing (especially at 0%) if you can afford the payments and loan length. It is a great way to lower your payments and have your money do some work for you since you'll obviously make more with it in the bank/stock/etc than having paid for the vehicle outright.

    There are many reasons why a 2002 Ford/Mercury won't sell for much money: it's a gas guzzler, it's American (Ford or GM in the same boat), crazy deals by dealers for new vehicles now to catch up to Toyota/Honda, etc. While all cars depreciate, Japanese (and perhaps German, etc) do so much more slowly, which is quite nice for buyers of new vehicles.

    I just don't see how you can think people can save up thousands of dollars and drive "junkers" until they have enough to buy a new vehicle. Owning a new vehicle shouldn't just be for upper class people, it should also be for hard working lower/middle class people too.

    To get back on topic, we have a 2003 Explorer which we bought new (has 19k miles now) which we will for sure be getting rid of prior to our factory warranty running out (due to dealer and Ford issues/run a rounds). I imagined that spending $30ish thousand dollars on a vehicle "entitled" us to some decent service and to be treated like a human being--guess again. Someone will get a good "deal" from us when we sell/trade, but we'll be happy to give them the good "deal" as we are running, not walking, into Toyota's arms.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    It seems that you need a better dealer. If you like the Explorer, it is a good vehicle. Many / most of us who own Explorers or Mountaineers have had very few problems.

    The $30,000 range is the average new car price. The Explorer and Mountaineer, especially with all of the 2006 upgrades, represent excellent value for the dollar. For about the average new car price, they provide well above average utility, safety, and features.

    I highly recommend the best selling book The Millionaire Next Door. It is enjoyable to read and full of useful information. Anyone who is not just starting to work, just the victim of some disaster, or disabled in some way should have money saved and invested.
  • moeharrimoeharri Member Posts: 108
    AsI mentioned, unless my current dealer is lying to me, Ford Motor Company is telling them NOT to fix vehicles on the first or second time that they are brought in and to have them try "free" things like switching gas stations (to fix my broken gas gauge), "see if it goes away" for the broken window motor in the 2nd row, etc. I've read of similar complaints from other Ford customers due to Ford's "Oasis" (?) system which tells dealers which steps they must do in order to fix customer complaints/issues.

    I guess I'm just very satisfied by the way that each time I go to Toyota to have my car looked at for any reason, I receive a survey from Toyota Company (not the dealer) and I also get random phone surveys from Toyota Company about my satisfaction--now that's what I call service. I believe Ford would dare not call here as I would have nothing positive to say and they know it. People warned me not to buy a Ford, but I said I'd give them one more chance (had a used Topaz and used Taurus prior to the Explorer which weren't high quality, perhaps understandably). BTW, I've had similar problems with Ford dealers in 3 of the neighboring cities that I've visited. Perhaps this has been due to my young age (25), but if I have the money, I think I should be treated like all their other customers (want to be treated).

    PS I don't expect a $20 or $30k vehicle to be perfect, but I demand that I do not get the runaround for obvious problems (gas gauge, window motor, etc), but Ford Mo Co apparently loves to play these games, and it's obviously showing with their sales slumping big time (lucky they have the Mustang right now...)
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    although that is what I do! However, I think you are confusing issues here. For prudent folks, borrowing for a few years to buy a vehicle can still be prudent. The problem is people taking out 6 and 7 year loans for a vehicle that will be worth near zero in 4. The old (1950s-1960s) rule of thumb was never to buy a vehicle costing more than 6 months pay and never to finance beyond 36 months. I think that is still a very prudent rule. I also prefer to pay cash but I think that there is a middle ground for people who are not as ultraprudent as you or I, but are still prudent.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    "AsI mentioned, unless my current dealer is lying to me, Ford Motor Company is telling them NOT to fix vehicles on the first or second time that they are brought in"

    I hate to admit it, but this has been my experience as well! I had a the driver's side front door handle rattle, they tried all kinds of adjustments and wrapping it in material to get it to stop rattling, to no avail. FINALLY, on the fourth visit they ordered the handle from Ford. THIS IS INEXCUSABLE ON A $30,000.00 vehicle.

    BTW, I just traded in my '01 Explorer w/41,800 miles on it last night for a Toyota 4Runner. I will give details in another post.
  • chuck1chuck1 Member Posts: 1,405
    As I briefly mentioned in an above post, I traded in my '02 XLT-2WD( w/leather/6 disc CD changer, third seat, rear air, almost 42,000 miles) for a '05 4Runner last night. My wife an I wanted a medium-duty tow vehicle. I wanted an Eddie Bauer Expedition since they can be had for $28,000.00 here in Southern California. She was insistent she did not want to drive something "that big". She initially did the research on the 4Runner's towing capacity with the V8. When she approached me I said no-way - it has 20 year old technology with the "ladder-type frame" and live-axle. It will ride like a truck!

    Nothing could have been further from the truth. I test drove the "Sport Edition" on my own when she wasn't around. The X-Reas Sport Enhancement package is a wonder of technical achievement! It links all shock absorbers together, with an extra one (shock mounted in the center of the frame), via an hydraulic line. Throw this SUV in to a corner at 50 miles an hour- it will stay almost perfectly flat! The fluid is pumped to the shock that needs it the most. The handing is similar to a sports car. This and the tuning of the suspension makes for a very livable situation. You can tell you have a live axle, but not much. At highway speeds the vehicle is 4 times more quiet than the Explorer. The new V8 puts out 275 horsepower with EPA estimates of 17 city and 20 highway. If I get these estimates it will be the same highway mpg that I got with the V6 in the Explorer. My eyes have been open. Now I see why Toyota will over take General motors---it will just take some time.......

    I will still check this board from time to time to help owners of '01 and later Explorers. These are good vehicles, after all they are still the number one mid-size SUV sold!
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    loan, sometimes a longer loan is feasible...my wife puts on about 8-10K yearly...we financed her 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 for 5 years to keep payments lower, but we will pay a little extra interst over the years...in 5 years she will have no more than 50K miles, but we anticipate keeping this truck for a decade or longer...barring being wrecked, stolen or burned up, I expect the Ram to easily last over 50K miles...IF IT DOESN'T, then I may end up in the Toyota/Nissan camp, as I really do expect an American truck to last 10 years or longer with light usage...anyway, a slightly longer loan for a vehicle that we should keep for twice that loan length, made sense to me...also, if it was stolen or burned or totalled, we carry gap insurance, so we would not have any outstanding loan balance on a greatly depreciated vehicle with a moderately high loan balance...just a thought..
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    You guys are unfortunate to have had such bad experiences with Explorers / Mountaineers, but I still think that you are very much the exception, not the rule.

    When I was a member of NAISSO, the owner's group for the '94 to '96 Impala SS cars, some people would share stories of bad dealers, but I did not have any problems. For example, I twice had the carpet in that car replaced under warranty (after the warranty, I upgraded to the Cadillac carpet, which did not wear through).

    My Mountaineer had three problems when it was new, and they were promptly and properly repaired. The first problem, a pinched fuel tank vent line which prevented adding gas to the tank, was corrected on the spot when I told them I was on my way from CA to St. Louis for my mother's funeral the day after 9/11/01.

    I have owned other GM and Ford vehicles and have lived in several cities in Missouri, Virginia, and California, and have never experienced the kind of horrible service you guys described.

    I sometimes let them know that I have taken apart, modified, and reassembled most major parts and systems on some of my previous cars, so they can't fool me. Most of the time I never mention my knowledge level, and I have not had problems obtaining prompt repairs.
  • midas72midas72 Member Posts: 18
    Paid cash -- I'm also from the camp not to do a lengthy loan on a depreciating item. I used some of the proceeds from the sale of my house. Love living in the debt free world.

    Cheers,
    John
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    My original question to the guy who overpaid for a 2002 Explorer was "did you finance". And while I later stated that the old rule was never to buy a vehicle costing more than 6 months pay and never to finance beyond 36 months, I actually was going to make a point but never did because he never answered my question. My point was that if he HAD to have an Explorer, IN THIS CASE he would have been better off taking a 5 or even 6 year loan ON A NEW vehicle instead of taking a shorter term on the overpriced used vehicle. You made my point in that a new vehicle today, if well maintained, should last 10 or more years.
    For all I know he might have taken a 5 or 6 year loan on the 3 year old vehicle, which is really financial insanity.

    Even on a brand new vehicle, the problem with a 5 or 6 year loan is that most people get tired or their life circumstances and vehicle needs change in that time. So they end way upside down. So the maximum 36 month loan rule is a good rule but there are exceptions.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Now THERE is something we can agree upon! Debt free is the way to go. Problem is that for most people, becoming debt free requires what I call the "hunker down" period. The older and more settled you are before you figure this out (if ever), the harder and longer the "hunker period" is. Truth be told, I delayed buying my first house for a few years because I wanted to pay cash. And I did...have owned three houses in 22 years and never had a mortgage. I wouldn't even know how to apply!

    Anyway, I didn't mean to beat you up about the used Explorer. I do think that the new vehicle was the better value (and maybe you should have financed that extra $7000 and paid it off quickly). But your overall strategy of being debt free shows you have the "big picture" very right. I hope your Explorer goes many miles! Our Mountaineer is at 37K miles and approaching it's 3rd birthday in September (it was the first 2003 our dealer delivered...I ordered it special in July 2002). So far...knock on wood...it's been much more trouble free than the 1995, 1997 or 1999 Explorers we had before it. I've never kept a vehicle more than 3 years but my wife is now working retail and it sits all day in a busy parking lot (can you say "door dings"?). So I've decided she is going to drive this until the wheels rot off as it just makes no sense to put a brand new vehicle into that parking lot day after day. I just hope it doesn't nickel and dime me to death as some Ford (and, I guess, other make) owners have experienced.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Then you've missed out on the home mortgage loopho..er, exemption while paying rent instead of building equity. Although houses aren't always appreciating assets either (I know, I was upside down for 6 years during a bust period in the 80's).

    People have different comfort levels with debt and if you aren't lying awake at night worrying about your car loan, then you're probably fine. Maybe the person with the six year car loan at 4.5% has the funds tied up in a REIT that's throwing off 12%.

    And if you really want to enjoy a good cash flow, drive them forever. My record is 17 years. :)

    The holiday is half over; let's start easing back to Explorer talk and leave the debt philosophy for the Smart Shopper forum shall we?

    Steve, Host
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Missed on on nothing...lived with mommy for free...and that was back in the early 1980s....ancient history. And REITS are not "yielding" ANYWHERE NEAR 12%...more like 4 to 5%. Although they have APPRECIATED quite a bit in recent years...I know...I own a boatload....er...Explorerload. And yes, what goes up can and often does come back down...and HARD!

    Fine to stay ontopic from here on out.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    LOL- yes, we too have a Mountaineer load of REITs - oil & gas and real estate (plus 9 rental houses - talk about an Explorer load of paperwork).

    Back on topic, I think it shows that the Explorer and Mounatineer are excellent values when people who are investors, not spenders, are buying them. Speaking of the 2006 models, for about the average new car price, what else could someone buy which has rear or all/4 wheel drive, an excellent V8 and 6-speed automatic, an independent rear suspension, a smooth and quiet ride (if what Ford says in the Mountaineer media kit is true), good handling, one of, if not the best, stability control systems around, side air bags, an excellent sound system, a fancy interior, seats for 5 or seven, plenty of cargo space, and kinds of nice little features which are so handy - a compass, power everything, heated mirrors, speed compensated sound system volume, and so forth. You could easily spend 50% more for something like the new ML-500 and still have less cargo space (and good luck finding an ML-500 without all kinds of expensive options, or trying to order one at or near the invoice price).

    Wow Steve, 17 years is a long time - what kind of vehicle? I still see old El Caminos and Rancheros on the road, some of them looking as good or better than new. If not for the radical improvements in safety features in the past few years, I think that many of us might have kept some of our vehicles for more years. The mechanical parts are not too bad, but the interior and body parts start to become very expensive.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Oh sure, lead me down the off-topic path again. :-)

    It was an '82 Tercel, and I would still be driving it but we sold almost everything for the Millenium and did a year long road trip in our Ford*, winding up in a different state when we settled back down.

    [*ok, our Ford is a Quest minivan, but it was assembled by Ford in Ohio - how's that for being sort of topical?].

    Steve, Host
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    I see your point...however, my wife has waited 19 years to replace her former pickup truck (1975 Toyota), and we finally took the plunge and made one of our vehicles a full size pickup...this truck will be hers, and there is no "getting tired of it" and replace with another pickup...now, if she wants an SUV, then we take a bad hit on trade-in, but she is not fond of SUV like I am, so she has her brand new vehicle for the next 10 years, unless gas goes to $5 per gallon, and she has a yard ornament for 10 years and beyond... :P ;) :shades:
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Member Posts: 792
    It sure would be fun to take the new Explorer on a year long trip and really see the USA (Oops, that's a Chevy jingle). Glad to hear that you did it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,293
    that went over 'like a rock'. ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    My favorite stupid GM truck ad was the one in the car rags showing the truck hanging from life boat divits on a cruise ship and right below the truck was the "like a rock" slogan...

    Now WHO wants a life boat built like rock?

    Mark
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    ...that $20,000 three year old Explorer is looking like a "worser and worser" deal all the time. Now Ford announced they'll meet GM's deals...this means an XLT can probably be bot for about $25K, BRAND SPANKING NEW.
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    Sounds more like you love to say so.

    Isn't it time to put this issue to bed? I've been convinced that you know all there is to know about financing, and that you're rather insensitive.
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