Honda Prelude 1997-2002

verozahl · July 2002

I-696/Detroit Autobahn: if you saw a silver blur go by today, it was some triple-digit mph idiot kid in his "Silver Bullet" Integra. Haircut appointment, you know. The mullet I was growing definitely said "Camaro dude" and that was not going to fly any longer!!!!

Preludes are plenty practical. Integra's hatch makes it just a little moreso, but remember that 200hp power! Thus, RSX is so practical, it may not even be fun. But remember, these all have FWD, thus you can hit the Reuther Expressway (I-696) all year long.

I'm getting the idea here that some people think 200hp is not enough. That S2000 has spoiled you! Man!

Two other observations: cheapo rental Focus is ewwwwww. nyccarguy is definitely authentic. NiCE 'LuDz!!!

mutter mutter stupid ingrained tar pellet mutter mutter gotta get me a car bra sometime mutter.

sphinx99 · July 2002

Yes, the cheapo rental Focus was pretty bad. Roll up windows. A while before that I had a cheapo rental Corolla with 31,000 miles on it and I have to admit, it grew on me. It was precise and incredibly tossable, and while I doubt it had more than 100hp underneath the hood, it was so light that it felt pretty spunky. That was my first real Toyota experience but it's given me enough reason to look seriously at a Supra if they ever bring it back.

It's not so much the 200hp as the 156ftlbs torque in a car that pretty much weighs 3200lbs with the driver. (Type SH is what, around 3050lbs?) The S2000 and heck, even the Focus and Corolla, kind of spoil you to lighter cars, and the Prelude could use 150lbs of weight reduction. This gets me thinking about how unhappy I'd be if I ever traded in the S2k for a 350Z. Performance cars should be under 3000lbs; that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

himiler · July 2002

The CR-V's 2.4L is just a longer-stroke/larger bore version of the K-series motor from the RSX/Si, tuned for more torque.

Since the K's spin in the opposite direction as a H22a4, putting one under a Prelude's hood would require more engineering than it's worth.

The JDM Prelude Type-S cranked out ~220HP. There was some speculation that the 2001 US Prelude would get the full Type-S treatment (w/ LSD, subtle body kit, auto climate control) as a kind of "farewell package," but American Honda (bozos) didn't think the demand would warrant the expense. Bummer.

gotenks243 · July 2002

It's funny how what you're used to makes all the difference. My daily driver is a 10-second -ish slushbox, so when I got a chance to test drive a 7-second (right?) Prelude SH, it actually felt like it had too much power. Even right down at the bottom, in first gear at low RPMs right when the clutch grabs, I felt a surge of power I had never felt before in any car. This in a car with 'only' 156 lb ft. It scared me, to be quite honest. And yet since you're used to the S2000, you have the exact opposite viewpoint.

About the 2.4 liter engine, Honda's starting to tune it fairly nicely. The new Accord Type R in Japan will have a version of it producing 240 hp. If the Prelude were still alive, that engine would be a wonderful underhood replacement for the 2.2 liter...well, for those it won't scare with its strength anyway.

Mike

verozahl · July 2002

okay, sphinx! Let's put in a bigger engine and reduce the weight and turn the Prelude into a S2000!

I won't be happy if the next Prelude becomes basically a S2000 coupe.

Prelude is not = S2000.

As for the 350Z, it's heavy enough! They should have given it ZX styling, and I would be all sold on it! >:(

phankane · July 2002

I had a problem with idle speed of 92 lude, the engine just dying down, I have to keep my foot on the pedal all the time to keep engine alive; went to the dealer the tech guy pulled out the modulator (electronic part the size of 2'' x2''), clean the contact points, plug it back and it works as new. Few week ago the samething happened again, I spayed the engine with degreaser and wash the engine, the problem with idle speed disapear!!

nyccarguy · July 2002

I was down in the MD,VA,DC metro area this weekend and saw quite a few 5th Gen Preludes running around (All stock TG). Took my Saab with me as I had to bring a 3rd passenger w/ luggage down with me. They were mostly silver & black. I saw a beautiful Silver Type SH with tinited windows that was especially clean. I've even taken a liking to the Electron Blue Pearl color which I originally thought was made for the shall we say "younger Prelude enthusiast;)"

On my way down while dashing through the great state of Delaware, I was driving next to a beautiful white 3rd gen Prelude Si. It was White w/ white wheels (which are nice, but I'll take the unpainted ones for maintenance purposes). It was in grogeous condition.

You can really see where the 5th generation gets its styling cues from when you see a pristine 3rd generation like the one I saw. Long hood, short roof & reart deck. The long, skinny tail lights.

nyccarguy · July 2002

sphinx99: That last one was pretty good, you just shouldn't have asked it in this forum. You should have started an entirely new thread for your specific question. LOL!

himiler: Yeah, the 220hp JDM Type S engine with auto climate control would have been a nice last hurrah for us. Does the JDM Type S have LSD? I thought it had ATTS in the front coupled with 4WS in the rear.

sphinx99 · July 2002

I've heard a lot of mixed things about the JDM Type S Vti or whatever it was; best I've found is that there was an ATTS version, and a 4WS version, but both technologies didn't make it into the same car.

I've been punishing the Prelude a bit over the last few days on hard curves and am enjoying ATTS a great deal. I find myself wondering whether it should make sense on a RWD or AWD drivetrain. Imagine AWD with ATTS both up front and down back. That car would stay on curves no matter what.

nyccarguy · July 2002

I always thought of ATTS as an "AWD system" for the front axle. If you look at a sophisticated AWD system like Audi's Quattro, one of its functions is to transfer power to the outside wheels around corners. So ATTS wouldn't be needed if the AWD system is advanced enough.

sphinx99 · July 2002

So is the Quattro system in an Audi active insofar as it actually measures yaw rate and redirect torque? See, there are a lot of systems that are active-passive; they measure whether a wheel is slipping, and approportion torque to the wheels that aren't slipping. In other words, these systems are, regardless of sophistication, reactionary. ATTS is rather unique insofar as it's purely active; it keeps track of what the car is doing on a macroscopic level (velocity, yaw rate) and approportions torque to the wheels that, on paper, would best be able to put it to the ground. That's what makes the car and its handling characteristics unique.

Is the Quattro AWD incorporting an active torque transfer system from the inside out, or is it simply reacting to wheel slip if and when it occurs?

nyccarguy · July 2002

Sphinx99

Quattro is a 100% active system. It anticipates when and if a wheel will slip. It transfers power rearward upon acceleration from a stop. It transfers power to the outside wheels when cornering. Check it out on the audiusa.com website or on vw.com (4Motion). It truly is the most sophisticated AWD system on the market.

sphinx99 · July 2002

How does it anticipate when a wheel will slip? I don't think it's physically possible to actively anticipate wheel slippage (in a technical sense) without having sensors operating at the interface between the tire and the surface, and aware of the surface conditions up ahead.

I went to audiusa.com and couldn't find any detailed Quattro specs - any links?

nyccarguy · August 2002

VW's 4motion is Audi's Quattro system. Check out www.vw.com/4motion (requires Flash).

nyccarguy · August 2002

What's the advantage for Acura to use an SOHC VTEC V6 in the TL/CL Type S as opposed to the DOHC VTEC engine found in cars like the Prelude, S2000, Civic Si, RSX, & NSX?

Also, how does the LSD in the CL Type S (6 speed) compare to the ATTS found in the Prelude (Type SH)? Is it that the ATTS is always active while the LSD waits for a wheel to slip in order to activate? I know the LSD helps launch the car better (260hp is A LOT for FWD).

Don't worry guys, I'm not defecting, just curious;) Besides, if I had the money for a CL Type S 6 speed, I'd rather spend the money on an S2000 or a BMW 325Ci.

himiler · August 2002

Acura uses a SOHC VTEC design in the 3.2 cars because it's cheaper than DOHC, and also because of the larger displacement of the engine. Honda's smaller (read: four-banger) engines benefit from DOHC because each of the cams weighs less than a single (larger and heavier) cam does. The more torque the engine produces, the less likely you are to notice that it's not as eager to rev as a smaller engine. DOHC also allows for much more precise cam/valve timing, which in turn permits a higer redline.

Now, about the VTEC. I'm not sure about the 3.2 motor, but all the other cars you mention use VTEC/i-VTEC on both the intake AND exhaust sides, except for the '02 Si, which is i-VTEC on the intake valves only.

The LSD in the CL-S compares favorably to ATTS. Yes, it does require a small amount of wheelspin to begin re-routing torque, but that's not to say that it's any less "active" than ATTS. ATTS requires real-time input from a whole bunch of sensors for its operation, so it doesn't really "anticipate" what's coming any more than a mechanical LSD, although its reaction/action time is quicker.

Unlike ATTS, a true LSD does help launch the car better, and is a traction device when the car is driven on slick or loose surfaces. Also, a helical-type LSD (as found in the CL-S) weighs only 4-5lbs. more than the stock differential, requires no maintenance, and will never quit on you due to a sensor or processing glitch (most commonly provoked by wheelspin).

Evidently, Honda decided that ATTS wasn't worth the effort and expense for the CL-S and went the LSD route.

In my car, the LSD is beautiful -- understeer and torque-steer are history, and the car's neutral attitude and progressive oversteer are countered only my instinct of self-preservation. When cornering hard, there's no additional resistance from the front wheels being felt thru the steering wheel. The car almost feels like it would guide itself thru the turn if I were to let go of the wheel. Lots of fun!

nyccarguy · August 2002

Have you driven a Type SH and your LSD equipped Prelude back to back? What'd you think?

It definitely sounds as if the LSD has more real world applications than ATTS. It also is far less complicated. (I wonder how much a burnt out ATTS unit will cost to replace out of warranty;)

nyccarguy · August 2002

Well, my plans to go to the Jersey Shore this weekend were cancelled because my friend who has a share in the shore house isn't going there this weekend. So I'm going to go to my parents' house tonight and swap cars. My Prelude has been sitting for a couple of weeks (3?) so I'm going to have to stretch its legs. I'll take a ride to my friend's place in Connecticut tonight.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to get up early and run my Prelude through the car wash. I would hand wash it but there are still drought restrictions here in the NYC metro area (even though it has been raining a lot this summer). I'm going to gingerly drive it home from the car wash and put a coat of Klasse Auto Polish on. I hope I can make it home before it gets too hot!

sphinx99 · August 2002

Hmm. I hate car washes! Do they use more or less water than hand washing? Typically (with both of my cars) I simply use two buckets. One is half-filled with soapy water, and other is fulled with regular water. The combined amount of water used is probably less than 1/2 what I use just for a daily shower. I need the entire bucket of clean water to rinse off the Prelude, but by the end it's usually soap free.

I abhor automatic car washes for a couple of reasons. The biggest, of course, are clearcoat scratches. Also, my leased 5th gen got a number of swirl/scratch/fade marks on the alloys because of car washes, although that was a base model and scratches really show through on those reflective rims... when I do need an automatic wash, I usually use the local touchless wash which sprays some chemical on the car, then sprays it off with water. I'm sure that chemical is unhealthy for the paint, whatever it is, but at least I don't have to worry about the power sanders grinding down the clearcoat at the same time.

How is Klasse? I am a Meguires guy at this point. Everyone says Zaino but I don't think silver paint would benefit from the high reflectivity.

jsh139 · August 2002

Hmm. I hate car washes! Do they use more or less water than hand washing?

Car washes typically RECYCLE the water to get around the drought restrictions. Another reason to stay away from them! How clean can that nasty water get after it's been filled with the dirt of hundreds of cars before it hits your paint?

Do these car washes even filter the used water? Probably not too well

nyccarguy · August 2002

I'm not a big car wash fan myself. There is one near my house that is truly brushless (not touchless though). I probably use a small amount of water (comparable to a daily shower), but if the cops drive by and see that you're watering your lawn or washing your car, they will fine you for violating the town drought ordinance. I was actually comtemplating heading to costco and buying 2 cases of poland spring water (at $5 & change each) and using those to wash my car (just like the Accord commercial).

I don't know how Klasse is, I'll let you know on Monday morining. That Zaino stuff seems like it is harder to use than Zymol, so NO THANK YOU. The Klasse is an acrylic based formula that actually "bonds with the paint surface." Lots of guys on the BMW boards use Klasse and they seem to be much more fanatical with their cars than I am. I'm going to polish the car in the Garage so it won't be in direct sunlight. As long as I can finish the job before temperatures reach the mid 80's then I should be OK.

verozahl · August 2002

Poland Spring Water is the best for car washing??

jsh139 · August 2002

but if the cops drive by and see that you're watering your lawn or washing your car, they will fine you for violating the town drought ordinance

I always wondered what would happen if you had well water vs. public water? Could they still fine you even though you're using your own water? The only one who really gets screwed is you if you run out

well, actually, I guess others in your area who are using the same water supply could be affected, too.

hmmmm ...

nyccarguy · August 2002

Any of you guys remember which of the magazines published this article? I don't remember if it is Road & Track or Motor Trend. Anybosy have a link to the article?

sphinx99 · August 2002

It was C&D and I have the links!

Under $30k: Prelude SH places 1st!

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/1997/June/199706_feature_thebe.xml

Over $30k: Prelude SH is midpack, but ties a Viper GTS, beats a vette, a 911 Carrera and a Boxster!

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/features/1997/September/199709_feature_thebe.xml

himiler · August 2002

I drove a '99 SH back in '98 on a lark before I bought my GS-R. The car drove great, but I was in a "lightweight" mindset at the time, and just coming off 218,000 (mostly) trouble-free miles in a '96 Integra LS, so I passed. The fact that I got the GS-R for $500 under invoice clinched it.

From what I can recall from my time in the SH, the LSD in my car is more subtle in its engagement than ATTS, but works just as well.

You're right: ATTS units aren't cheap to replace, but usually it's just a sensor that gets wiggy. Be sure to have the dealer service the ATTS when the manual instructs.

nyccarguy · August 2002

Sphinx99: Thanks for the Link. I enjoyed reading the articles and reading praise about our beloved Prelude:)

So I got to use my Klasse Polish this weekend. It was unbareably hot so I knew I would have to do this early Saturday Morning. I got to the Car Wash about 8AM and just had the standard interior vaccum/exterior wash done. I gingerly drove the car back to my house and put it directly into the garage. I opened the hood up to let it cool off for a few minutes while I started on the deccklid spoiler. I moistened the applicator and put a drop on (about the size of a dime) and started to rub it in firmly. After I put the Klasse on, I wiped it right off with a plain, white t-Shirt. I took me about a half hour and three drops (the size of dimes) to do the entire exterior of the car.

Now I know what you're all thinking: "But NYCCARGUY, that sounds too easy and also you're car is brand spankin new with just over 400 miles on it." (I know I'm sounding like an infomercial here) I noticed a difference. The paint was smoother. It wasn't carnuba wax smooth, but it was smooth. I took the car out into the sunlight and noticed how it was shining brilliantly. Supposedly the protection & water beading will stay for 6 months.

I'd also like to say that even though my car is brand new, it was manufactured in October 2001 and never washed and waxed before delivery. They cleaned my poor Prelude with chemicals due to a water shortage.

Klasse is a great product. I believe I bought it from carcareonline.com

nyccarguy · August 2002

I think a Prelude Type SH would look great in the Spa Yellow of the S2000.

My only problem with the S2000 would be which color to pick. I'd have to pick between the Spa Yellow (Honda makes a great yellow, I've always wanted a yellow car, the S2000 looks awesome in Spa Yellow) and the New Formula Red (I love red Cars, I don't see too many red S2000s, and the S2000 looks incredible in New Formula Red).

himiler · August 2002

That yellow would look good on a Prelude, and I've seen a couple of project cars that had been repainted. Too loud a color for my use, though. In silver, my car attracts 0.0% attention from the fuzz, and I like it that way.

sphinx99 · August 2002

Same. I think I'm the wrong age to drive a yellow car. Most yellow fans seem to be either under 20 or over 40...

nyccarguy · August 2002

True it is a loud color! Silver, Black, & darker colors are great for not attracting the fuzz... I have always been a fan of sleepers/stealthy cars too.

Sphinx99: What color is your S2000, silverstone? Oh, that habitat guy has a Yellow one.

sphinx99 · August 2002

Correct. Both of my cars are silver. I like silver. It looks nice, stays clean, and while silver is one of the less astonishing colors during daylight, it is perhaps the most beautiful color at night when driving along a street and streetlight reflects off it...

nyccarguy · August 2002

Silver is a great color. I'm just a little sick of it for now. My Saab is Silver and it is holding up great. Silver is just way too common around here. The low maintenance factor is a big thing for me too. I love the way a great, clean car looks at night while cruising down the street. White & Silver are my favorite colors for that too.

I got my Prelude in Red because I always wanted a red car. I told the dealer that did a search for me that my top 3 color choices were Red, followed by White, and Then Silver. I told him that if there were none of these colors available (within reasonable distance) that I would take a black one.

nyccarguy · August 2002

I saw a perfectly clean Silver Type SH the other day and it was shining to no end! Beautiful color!

verozahl · August 2002

The green one I saw at Audi of Rochester Hills looked good. Green Preludes are rare. The car wasn't washed, though, so it didn't sparkle like the new Audis next to it did. I wonder if they sold it yet?

nyccarguy · August 2002

I was never a fan of the green because it used to only come with that ivory over black interior. I saw a Green Type SH With Beige Leather, Red center caps, Red Honda Emblems, & Red Brake Calipers. Nice car, not my style though.

I thought the Red Center Caps used to come on the Type SH models. When did they stop that?

himiler · August 2002

Silver's nice, but it's such a PITA to match when it comes to having to use touch-up paint or re-spraying a body panel.

I think they stopped with the red center caps on the 2K model. I remember reading a post about that on PO.com.

Beige leather? Double yuck.

nyccarguy · August 2002

it looked good with the green exterior...but I'm a black interior guy all the way. I'll only buy cars with Black interiors!

sphinx99 · August 2002

I didn't think Preludes had red center caps... certainly don't remember that in the past.

I saw one white Type SH that really blew my mind. Beautiful car...

jsh139 · August 2002

My brother's 98 SH has red center caps. He also owned a 97 Base SS that he traded for the SH. The base didn't have the red caps.

Also, leather wasn't available in the US for ludes right? That must have been a canada car or aftermarket leather, huh?

nyccarguy · August 2002

Leather was never offered as a factory installed option on US Spec 5th Generation Preludes. I believe a car called the Prelude SE was sold in Canada. It looked like our Type SH, but had leather and heated seats instead of ATTS.

There are some great looking aftermarket leather kits for the Prelude.

sphinx99 · August 2002

Actually, I think leather was in fact offered in the '97 and/or '98 model years...

himiler · August 2002

No leather was offered from the factory. Honda was desperately trying to keep the price down.

Speaking of price, my Honda dealer has a new 2001 silver SportShift ready to roll for --get this-- $20,900.00! That's ~$2500 under invoice! Too bad it's not a 5spd...

sphinx99 · August 2002

Are you certain? I am almost positive that leather was an option in the first production year... could be wrong but...

verozahl · August 2002

New 2001 silver automatic? It's in New York, though, right? >:(

kenjabi · August 2002

I think sphinx is right about the leather seats. According to this very own website, leather was an option for the '97 Prelude, both the base and Type SH. Never offered after that--wonder why?

nyccarguy · August 2002

I'm sticking with himiler on this! It was available on the 4th Generation Prelude VTEC, Prelude SE, but never on the 5th Generation (to my knowledge). Honda was desparately trying to keep costs down for the 5th generation Prelude. An option like leather (along with a few others) would push the MSRP closer and closer to the $30K mark...

$20,900...damn! great price, but too bad it's a SS:)

sphinx99 · August 2002

I'm sticking with my guns on this. I'm positive Honda did in fact offer leather in the '97 Preludes, but removed it as an option (cost) in later years. There are folks over on hp.com who salvaged '97 leather from wrecked ludes to put in their newer model year cars.

gperr · August 2002

Hey folks,

I purchased a '97 Lude new back in the day. As I recall, no factory leather- but dealers were offering aftermarket leather as a dealer installed option. That is my recollection. I recall it being about $1K for the dealer installed leather option.

3 cars later- I miss my red base 5-spd with spoiler.

Gregg

nyccarguy · August 2002

What are the 3 cars you've had since then...

Honda Prelude 1997-2002

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