Toyota Matrix

mfarmer2 · April 2001

Thanks. :-)

Mary

vocus · April 2001

I drove a 130hp automatic Matrix XR a couple weeks ago, and left the AC on the whole time, just to evaluate it with the air on (I know it takes some power). The acceleration was slow. The engine was pretty quiet, but I was revving the snot out of it to get any movement. I never drove the XRS because they didn't have one, but I am sure it wouldn't make much difference in automatic form (I can't drive stick). So maybe there is some truth in the MT article.

pocahontas · April 2001

From what I've read, the 2003 Toyota Matrix is going to be built on the same platform as the Toyota Corolla. It's also the twin of the 2003 Pontiac Vibe.

Here's some more information about the Toyota Matrix from the Edmunds.com's coverage of the 2001 North American International Auto Show: 2003 Toyota Matrix

In addition, we also have a active Pontiac Vibe (Corporate Twin) discussion on the Station Wagon Message Board. I'll let this one remain on this board, since these vehicles really do fall into the cross over category.

In the near future, I hope to link this discussion to the Station Wagons board. In the meantime please note: I've linked the Pontiac Vibe discussion from Station Wagons into the Additional Resources on the left hand side of this page. Hope this is helpful. ;-)

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leomort · April 2001

Kelly's Blue Book website has it marked as a 2002 model due out this summer. They also have the Pontiac Vibe as a 2002 due out this fall. Check it out under kbb.com click under car preview section.

Leo

hilltop33 · April 2001

I looked at KBB, but something is odd. It says the Matrix will launch this summer while the Vibe (Pontiac partner car) will not launch until Fall 2002. This does not make any sense. It is also clear, that to get the 180HP engine in either car, we're going to have to wait quite a while.

FYI - Both the Toyota and Pontiac websites say the cars will launch in January 2002.

Lori

pocahontas · April 2001

regarding the date. Reason being I have not posted an exact date in the title of this discussion. My previous post was quoting dates/information from Edmunds.com's auto show coverage... which quotes a "2003 Toyota Matrix... set for release in mid-2002".

For further clarification, please feel free to direct your questions to the Edmunds.com's content editors. You can do that via the "questions, suggestions, and feedback" box near the bottom of this page. Good luck and sorry for the confusion. In the meantime, if I find out more information myself, I'll be sure to post it here. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

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viktoria_r · April 2001

question

does Vibe/Matrix duo have removable rear seats (like minivans)? I read that they have flip/fold seats, but what about removable? Also, is manual the only transmission available with 180hp engine?

totalnet · April 2001

If go to the video section under the auto show, there is a video clip of the Vibe. You can see the rear fold down seats are in the down position. Like most hatchbacks and wagons, it is not removable. But the area in the back will be flat once the rear seats are down.

vadp · April 2001

Still not too much of info.

Pretty nice interior/exterior 360º views.

http://www.isthistoyota.com/high/index.html

s852 · April 2001

I looked at the pictures of the interior and there seems to be a large screen where the CD player is.
Does anyone know if Toyota plans to make a GPS navigation system available on the Matrix in the US?

vadp · April 2001

Yes, the DVD-based navigation system will be available as an option.

elehto · May 2001

The pontiac website says a 5 speed manual will be available with the base car (assuming the Vibe and Matrix will have identical specs). The 6 speed is only available in the GT with the 180 hp celica engine. The AWD version will only be available with the 130 hp base engine and a 4 speed auto.

leomort · May 2001

Any info on the car's wheelbase, rear leg room, and cargo capacity?

Leo

vadp · May 2001

Width - 69.5 in.
Wheelbase - 102.4 in.
"Capable of packing a whopping 57.2 cubic feet (1,621 liters) of cargo behind the driver,"

leomort · May 2001

Thanks!

Leo

badtoy · May 2001

may be due to the fact that the Vibe will be built at Nummi and the Matrix in Canada. However, I would trust the manufacturers' web sites before the others -- after all, they're the ones who should know!

rdeschene · June 2001

"Capable of packing a whopping 57.2 cubic feet (1,621 liters) of cargo behind the driver,"

That's 1 cu. ft. LESS than a 2001 Saturn SW2 wagon, with the seats down.

badtoy · June 2001

Guess that nixes the Vibe and Matrix. Saturn, here I come!!! (By the way, where are they??)

njbongo · June 2001

Well, specs can betricky. Yesm the Saturn may have moe cubic feet, BUT my sister has the 2000 SW2 (same as 2k1) and the side pillars that house the rear struts stick out so much that they invade the cargo space. This makes the opening very narrow even with the seats folded down. If you are trying to carry large objects in the saturn, your screwed.

Haven't seen the INSIDE of the MAtrix yet.....they had it at the NY Auto show, but wouldn't let anyone touch it !!!! I really hate that.....anyway, something to think about.

damax07 · June 2001

Last Saturday on Speedvision,
they have been broadcasting a 30 minutes show dedicating to Toyota's brand products (Subaru also) from the existing model line to the future models and that included the Matrix...It was really informative, they showed the interior, the open hatch with a bicycle in it. Since taste is not a matter of discussion and varies from individuals, but the styling did meet my taste though!
Damax

eclipsegs · June 2001

Is this a new relationship? Please say no. What are these completely different automakers doing? I'm extremely interested in the Matrix, but if Pontiac is part of it, I'm not so sure.

One quick equation comes to mind:

Pontiac = Not Reliable
Toyota = Reliable

How reliable will the Matrix be? Or is this relationship much like DSM (Diamond Star Motors) which was basically Chrysler and Mitsubishi. This relationship still exists I believe, just not under the DSM name. Looks to me that the Vibe uses all engine, interior, and frame work from Toyota and just the bodywork is different.
Much like the Mitsu Eclipse and Eagle Talon. Is this correct?

Sporin · June 2001

The Chevy (Geo) Prism and the Toyota Corrolla are/were IDENTICAL below the skin and built on the same assembly line.

The Maxtrix appears to be all toyota Celica under the skin. The pontiac version has different sheetmetal but that's about it.

eclipsegs · June 2001

Thanks Sporin. I just finished reading more in depth about the relationship and you are correct. My thoughts are that the Matrix will sell more. The Vibe looks too much like a Aztek for me.

Now about this AWD system. I'm curious to see if that the Matrix will have a AWD option, will the Celica? I hope there will be a 180HP version without AWD.

himiler · June 2001

It'll be built on the 2003 (new) Corolla platform, according to a local dealer. I hope Toyota works out the bugs in the the 6-spd. shifter and engine combo that Edmunds' long-term Celica GT-S was loathed for.

comedydrama · June 2001

Matrix is set to debut in February/March of 2002, as a 2003 model. There are all sorts of great graphics and articles that were written about it on the internet. Use the google search engine, as there are some very interesting reviews and opinions, as well as some downright pretty and well-done graphics.

Look for a slew of websites to pop up in anticipation, much as the Subaru WRX model owners have had. It may be somewhat of a "cult" car, as it's a pocket rocket with the hot 6-speed/180HP motor available.

CD

pocahontas · June 2001

This discussion is now linked across three different message boards. As indicated in the title, you'll now be able to access this discussion through our Hatchbacks, SUV's, and Station Wagons Message Boards. Hope you enjoy discussing this new cross over vehicle with participants from these different boards.

Thanks for your participation. ;-)

Pocahontas
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Hatchbacks/Station Wagons Boards

the_rock73 · June 2001

The Toyota Matrix will officially debut on January 01 2002 as a 2003 model.

rdeschene · June 2001

That's ridiculous, the term 'model year' has meant less and less these last ten years, and it's now official: it means bloody squat all !

Why don't the manufacturers just abandon the concept entirely? Effectively they already have abandoned the concept, which is quite OK, but spare us all the farce.

beanboy · June 2001

Yes, the Cavalier was sold as A Toyota in Japan until very recently. GM worked a deal out with Honda to exchange V6 car motors for V8 truck motors. This is going to be the norm in the future folks.

-B

osfan456 · June 2001

Does anyone have any guesses on the price of this interesting little car?
What about gas mileage?

comedydrama · June 2001

$24000 pricing, or thereabouts on the "rocket" version. $20,000 on the morer sedate car.

And, it will NOT be here in the states, available for sale, til Feb/March 2002 as a 2003 car.

steine13 · June 2001

comedydrama opined somethign like $20k "in the more sedate version". Not likely.
First up, I suppose you're pulling your numbers from a very dark place, because the only official word I've seen is that it'll be priced "competitively" (Pontiac website). And the Japanese tend to be very secretive about pricing etc.
However, the car will replace the Pontiac Sunfire in the GM lineup, and the Sunfire has an MSRP of approx. $15k. The Prizm starts at $14k sticker, and both of these cars have hefty rebates throughout much of the year; Prizm is at $1500, I believe. The Corolla stickers for about the same money as the Prizm, as it has to.
Add to that the fact that GM admits the Aztec was overpriced, I'd doubt they make the same mistake again. On the Toyota side of things, the Matrix will have to be significantly below the RAV4; and don't forget a Subaru Legacy L AWD wagon stickers for $20k even. These things don't happen in a vacuum.
So: my educated guess is $16k for a base model (AC 5spd), and good luck finding one on the lot; slightly above $20k for a loaded GT or loaded AWD.
If comedy has hard information, however, I'd be eager to hear it and be educated.
-Mathias

Sporin · June 2001

MY guess would be around $17k for a base model 5spd and $20k-$21k for a loaded GT or loaded AWD.

rdeschene · June 2001

Here's a little light reading. The first link is earlier than the first, so it incorrectly listing "Japan" as the point of assembly. Can anybody say: "Exchange rate differentials?" I knew you could. Just plot a graph comparing the Yen-U.S. exchange rate, and the Canadian-U.S. rates. The good news for the U.S. is that Cambridge has consistently put out top rate Corollas. :-)

http://www.velocityjrnl.com/jrnl/2001/v2kmdl2414spec.html

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/010221-2.htm

comedydrama · June 2001

The quandary you have is that Toyota is planning to place the car in the "Corolla buyers" range of pricing, but the hyped up model, with the 17" wheels and the 180HP motor won't be able to have the sunroof (or perhaps they can, on a limited basis with the stick shift) due to EPA weight restrictions, so the moderately equipped cars will be at the Corolla pricing at the outset (MSRP right now averages 16000-17000 on the S and the LE versions) and the Matrix with the GTS sorta features, 180HP etc would be $22,000 at the highest point.

Guesstimation, and making the assumption that a lot of dealers will be marking them up over the MSRP at first. I'd think that MSRP will be where it's at, for purchase, when it debuts.

I sure hope you are right though. It'd be nice to have this car at the $14,000-$15,000 range with lots of extras but I can't see my way clear to that possibility yet. We can hope!

CD

jvkalra · June 2001

Toyota says the Matrix will be "affordable", and priced in the compact car range. The only problem is that Toyota makes it a practice to jack up the price with a lot of useless "options" ($800 alloy wheels, etc), which would be better left as options installed at customer request by the dealer. The result, I think, is that younger buyers go get something else because the price is too high, and the Toyota they want is very hard to find. Remember the RAV4 was supposed to be for the young, hip buyer, but these buyers didn't have 21K+ to burn when the RAV came here in '96. The RAVs starting price was only 16K. Even the Echo, targeted to younger buyers has a page long list of options, but it's impossible to find power windows. DUH!

I'd love to see Honda come out with a competing vehicle that has their simple no option pricing, so buyers have a real choice among the imports.

badtoy · June 2001

Hondas are cheaper than Toyotas -- right??

s852 · June 2001

Actually, Honda's are generally always substantially lower-priced than similarly optioned Toyotas.
Compare an Accord EVV6 to a Camry XLE with the same options as what comes standard on an EXV6.
Same with Corolla Vs Civic.

badtoy · June 2001

I'll take your word -- I'd always heard the opposite.

eclipsegs · June 2001

The Vibe is offered with AWD, but not with the 180HP engine. (odd?) Anyone know about the Matrix with this option?

himiler · June 2001

Until trim lines are announced, it's all just speculation, anyway. But, I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

eclipsegs · June 2001

...as am I my friend.

eclipsegs · June 2001

...for the new Matrix that is. Has anyone started a website specifically for the Matrix. Love the car and the movie. (hehe)

badtoy · June 2001

that's news to me. I won't believe that until I see it in print (although, as a Toyota fan, it would delight me to no end!) =O)

mpgman · June 2001

Try finding ABS and side air bags, even though the 01 brochure claims they are available. Understand the 02s will have package 3...power windows and keyless entry or something like that.

mpgman · June 2001

27/32 is what I have heard for the base engine automatic, although I wouldn't be surprised if the EPA hasn't even tested it yet. What is this supposed to weigh? If it is close to the Celica, then you can pretty much use the Celica figures and maybe subract a bit for less aerodynamics, if that is the case. Doubt the 6-speed will have a deep overdrive...more likely at the other end. Then too, AWD will exact its toll.

lngtonge18 · June 2001

I would imagine the reason why AWD may not be offered with the 180 horse engine is the simple fact that its power band would not work too well with the extra drag and friction of 4 wheel drive. The Celica GTS engine only has 5 more pound feet or torque than the regular 1.8, but where that torque peaks jumps from 4200 rpms to 6800 rpms. The extremely high power band would make the AWD version feel slow off the line. The thin torque and high power band simply would not work with AWD. You need a lot of good low end torque to pull the extra wheels and weight and overcome friction. Also, I'm not sure whether an AWD system could handle the stress of an engine spinning close to 8000 rpms. So, my guess is that the 180 horse engine will not be offered with AWD for these reasons, not because there is no market for it.

himiler · June 2001

Sad, but most likely true.

mpgman · June 2001

Preliminary numbers are 21/28 for the larger engine and 27/32 for the smaller. Suspect that auto and manual will be a mile or two from each other.

clyde2000 · June 2001

I found it amusing to read that Toyota is all good, and GM is all bad. If it's made by Toyota it's reliable, if it's made by GM it's not. Is that any way to evaluate a car? Talk about judging a book by it's cover!!

The best though is reading the post about how in Japan, the Chevy Cavalier (that would be the twin of the [Pontiac] Sunfire) is sold under the Toyota name. Hmm, I own a Cavalier... does this mean that it is suddenly more reliable?

eclipsegs · June 2001

Great speculation. Sounds reasonable to me.

Toyota Matrix

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