Toyota Matrix

mikus · September 2003

Now, when both Focus and Mazda3 has 2.3-L engine, and Golf/Jetta always had VR6 option, and even Elantra and that funny Suzuki have 2.0-L... Now Toyota has no other choice than to drop at least 2.0 into Matrix. I will wait till next year. Hope Toyota will return All-Trac version as well...

nippononly · September 2003

that would be really cool.

Now that they have "seen the light" to install the Highlander 4-cyl as standard engine in RAV, maybe they can take the now-former 2L from the RAV and plop it in the Matrix! That would be good for almost 20 additional hp, still would not compete too much with the racy XRS engine, and would be most welcome, especially in the AWD models.

capitano · September 2003

But wouldn't they have to revamp the AWD system? They already detuned the 1.8l for that as it is.

I was in a Matrix convoy the other day. The front one was indigo then came my cosmic blue followed by a silver. All three were XRS which is probably all of them in this area. Maybe I should have been playing lotto that day.

lngtonge18 · September 2003

Actually, that funny Suzuki gains a 155 hp 2.3 liter engine for 04......The Matrix is definitely being left in the dust in the hp war.

nippononly · September 2003

they didn't "detune" the 1.8 for the AWD system. The re-routing of the exhaust around the AWD componentry created additional back pressure, resulting in a 7 hp output drop. So, I guess if the RAV 2.0 makes 148 hp in the front-drive versions, the AWD versions would make 141. Still a big improvement! And as the field shifts now to the point where 140-150 hp is the standard range for compacts (excepting Honda), it would keep Toyota right in the middle of the game.

herzogtum71 · September 2003

what will this do to gas mileage? We opted for the Matrix AWD over small SUVs in large part because of the 30 mpg rating on the highway. I think the AWD performs adequately with the current engine and hope they don't eliminate this option even if they decided to offer an engine with more HP in the AWD.

capitano · September 2003

I was just parroting what I read in all the reviews. No one mentions the rerouting of the exhaust, but they all lament the lower power rating for the AWD Matrices.

nippononly · September 2003

wondered....is it Matrices or Matrixes? Since it is a model name, not an actual thing. An important point, I know! :-)

Yeah, I would hope that if they put the 2.0 in the Matrix, they would increase its fuel efficiency first. It looks like that is what they did for the Highlander's 2.4.

smo615 · September 2003

Pontiac now sells a supercharger for the Vibe. It is listed on the Pontiac website under accessories. But when I called the local dealer he did not know anything about it. The website says it increases torgue and hp by 35%. I would bet it will work on a Matrix just as well. It will not go on the variable valve timing engine - only the base engine and not on the AWD model.

Sure might help the current weak engine.

nippononly · September 2003

has one for the Matrix already. Has had for some time now. Unfortunately, poor slobs like me that bought an auto because there were no manuals around may not be able to install it!

It wouls still be a nice idea if Toyota upped the standard power a little bit. As long as they could stay close in EPA numbers.

kjtg · September 2003

Does the Matrix come with tinted glass? I could not find it in the brochure but I thought all cars with air had it.

nippononly · September 2003

UV-blocking glass, I think. It does not have a darkening tint though.

derekgdw · September 2003

Hello!

Im considering a 2004 Toyota Matrix for my next car (If the 2004 Prius isnt quite quite attuned to my tastes like I hope it might be that is) and I was hoping that some of you on this board could answer some questions I have about the car.

#1 - Is this a car that youd recommend purchasing snow tires for or does it hold its own well enough with the standard all season tires. I travel to Wisconsin regularly down roads that arent plowed near as well as they are around here. I did fine in the past with an old 93 Front Wheel Drive Subaru Impreza no ABS (I had put on 14 inch tires by that point I think with I believe Michelin MXV 4 tires)

#2 - 16 inch vs 17 inch tires. Are the 17 inch tires (all season, not summer) worth the upgrade? Any negative tradeoff as far as snow/rain handling or should the car handle better in these conditions with all season 17 inchers? Any experience with this?

#3 - Ive read that the paint is rather thin and chips easily. Is this still true on the 04s? Has anyone tried a clearbra/invisashield (those clear acrylic kits that fit on the front of the car to prevent rock chips) for their Matrix? How do you like it? Worth the money? Stupid question, would waxing the car frequently help prevent against some of the more minor rock chips since it is providing some sort of barrier?

#4 - This is probably more of a general question than anything but does anyone else have problems with their windshields developing a bunch of chips that are visible in direct sunlight? This was a problem that I inherited with my 93 Subaru and developed on my 02 Subaru. My parents 94 Infiniti Q45 has the same problem (they inherited that problem when they bought the car used). I suspect that it has something to do with highway driving (brilliant deduction eh?) I never tailgate but when youre going between 55 to 155 (these are Chicago expressways after all) I guess its not outlandish to expect dust and dirt to impact the windshield at such a high rate of speed that itd leave pitting. Is there any way to avoid this problem or have you found the Matrix have a more durable windshield that resists this better?

#5 - If I choose the Matrix over the 04 Prius Ill definitely be having a remote starter installed (something I somehow doubt I could have put on the Prius). This time around I want to have it installed by the dealership. The system theyre offering is by Pursuit (apparently a division of Audiovox) anyone have any experience with a Toyota Dealership installing one of these on their car? How do you like it?

#6 - Interior rattles . . . Nothing drives me up the wall more than interior rattles that arent attributed to something Im carrying. This is ESPECIALLY true on a vehicle I can expect to dump 20k or more on. I understand that theyve fixed the interior rattles more or less for 2004? Is this true?

#7 - Anyone have the TRD Sway Bar and Strut Brace installed? Does it negatively affect the ride? How much better is the handling of your vehicle and would you recommend it?

I wasnt considering the Matrix until about a week ago when a friend of mine suggested the Corolla after I test drove a Scion (was visiting in San Diego) and didnt like it (was rather slow to get up to speed on the expressway). I didnt like the Corolla (after driving Subaru Impreza sport wagons for years I find cars with trunks to be impractical) but I was very surprised and pleased with what the Matrix had to offer. Good job Toyota!

johnclineii · September 2003

A car bra (or mask) will cause a lot more damage than it prevents UNLESS you religiously remove it after EACH drive, wash the car thoroughly, remove any grit from inside the bra and put it back on after the car is thoroughly dry. Most car bra users find this out the hard way. You will note you see very few of them on good looking cars nowadays.

As for windshields, I suspect they have gotten softer due to some weight reduction efforts and/or crash factors. I wouldn't want the windshield to be so strong that it didn't pock or mark but it also stopped me and my head real quick in a collision. But you are right, they definitely get many more scratches, pocks marks, etc,, than they used to and it seems to take far less to cause them.

Snow tires are needed where ice is prevalent or where it snows with any frequency. It is best to put them on ALL four wheels, not just the drive wheels, but few people do. All season tires are not a snow tire substitute.

And waxing will do nothing to prevent rock chips.

capitano · September 2003

I've read some comments on owner sites by people who have some clearbras. They seem to like it.

I don't know about hardness levels of windshields. I got a nice chip in my windshield 5 miles from the dealership on the day I bought it. All the other cars I have had got chips in
them too.

I haven't noticed any chips in the paint yet, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.

Mine's an 04 and at 3200 miles so far I have no rattles.

I have the 17" all seasons. So far they are fine for me. I wanted the better handling and was willing to accept the stiffer ride that that brings. You may feel differently. Mine's an XRS and already rode stiffer than the XR.

mikus · September 2003

SC is offered by TRD for about 3K. I would prefer to add 500 just for plain 2-liter engine instead. Why would I buy underpowered car with good mileage and spend 3K to get the same mileage as other 2 or 2.3 engines? Do not think so, Toyota. I would rather buy Mazda3. Granted, 1ZZ-FE is about as powerful as others' 2-liter engines, but Matrix still seems underpowered.

derekgdw: about tires. 17 vs 16 would not make a big difference, it is the rim which is 1 inch bigger, not the tire. But 17 are usually wider. For snow the wider tires the worse, because a car "floats" on the snow. The rain driving is not that straighforward, it depends on tire design. Get a set of winter tires, maybe a little bit narrower with higher profile. Studs might help too if they allowed in your state. Or at least get a set of "M+S".

Prius is gotta be way cool car. If only its styling was nicer, like Audi A2.

xr5speed · September 2003

POWER: I found the automatic transmission to be a bit underpowered, but the 5-speed, while not a rocket off the line, is pretty fun to drive and I am still getting +-37 mpg.

SNOW: I have not had a winter yet with mine, but, like other posters said, at least M&S and, in case of emergencies, keep chains and bourbon in the car.

RATTLES: None (yet)

PLURAL OF MATRIX: Take your pick:
A. Matrixes
B. Matrices
C. Matrii
D. Matrix (like "fish," both singular and plural.
E. Corollas

nippononly · September 2003

"corollas". Yup. :-)

TRD's SC gives you 170-175 hp in the Matrix, much more than those other 2.0s mentioned, and even more than some of the 2.3s. Yup, $3K investment and fuel economy will drop to that of the competitors, but the power will be higher than them.

To my mind, a 2.0 with 150 hp is a better compromise with fuel economy than a 175 hp S/C engine with fuel economy in the low to mid 20s.

microrepair · September 2003

xr5speed:
"D. Matrix (like "fish," both singular and plural."

Unless you're Mafia, in which case its "fishes" as in "sleeping with the fishes".

nippononly:
"To my mind, a 2.0 with 150 hp is a better compromise with fuel economy than a 175 hp S/C engine with fuel economy in the low to mid 20s."

Like I've been saying for some time, Toyota must have installed that SC engine in my Matrix by accident because that's the mpg range I'm seeing.

After 13000 miles the infamous instrument panel squeak is with us... And now the wife is complaining about the way it "blows around" on the highway. I think it is very stable in crosswinds; what she interprets as blowing around is really the short wheelbase bounce and since she is a white knuckle driver, she twitches the steering wheel when the car bounces; ergo, it does some weaving within the lane. I don't have that problem; for me it is a pretty good highway cruiser; actually not too noisy either..

But since it is her car, I have a feeling it's life with us is gonna be on the short side.

nippononly · September 2003

bugged me very much, but this car DOES feel light in heavy crosswinds. I am surprised anyone gets mileage as low as low 20s.

I am just about to get the 20K oil change, and I will leave the car to get rattly A-pillar panels quieted, and the center storage bin cover fixed (broken hinge), and the wobbly rear-view mirror replaced. I may ask them to look at the loud whiney wiper motor too...it would be just my luck for those to quit working 5 miles out of warranty. Anyway, this little pit stop will happen this week or next.

I was reading in automotive news this AM that the new Mazda3 will have a 148 hp 2.0 or a 160 hp 2.3 - I wouldn't mind having the former in my Matrix. I wonder what mileage the new 3 will get. It is interesting that one of the segment leaders, the Civic, is still at 115 hp when everyone has up-powered so much, and Honda does not seem to be concerned...Civic is still at least two years away from its next redesign.

capitano · September 2003

My wife's Civic has an older 106hp engine. It is fine for her. If the car had a manual transmission it would be rather zippy too. There is more to a successful engine than a peak HP number.

nippononly · September 2003

one of the advantages of the Civic is its light weight, at 2500 lbs or so. Of course, all these new crossovers and compact wagons, including the 3 and the Matrix, weigh in at more like 2800. They are also higher with more drag than 2 and 4 door sedans and coupes like Civic.

I will bet, though, that Honda brings in standard continuously variable valve timing with the next gen of Civic, which will boost low-end power.

nippononly · October 2003

I had an XRS as a loaner for a couple of days this weekend while my truck was in the shop...I had no idea just how different the XR and XRS are! Now I want to trade for the 180 hp, and fuel economy be darned! :-)

This thing would get me a ton of tickets though - it just isn't happy unless it can go 90 mph or more, and the engine is SO rev-happy. You can drive around at 5000 rpm in town, no sweat - sm-o-o-o-th! I never got out of second gear except on the highway! And even with those drive habits, I got 25 mpg. When I turned it back in I went and had a test drive in an '04 (the loaner was an '03) - I really like the updated gauge lighting on the '04 much better. Plus, now you can get the 17s with the moonroof. The handling is much better in the XRS vs XR. I don't think it can be just the lower profile tires and the 17" rims - are the stabilizer bars bigger too? Or firmer struts?

I think I have to trade up for one of these next year! :-)

capitano · October 2003

I told you. It's a rocket. No tickets yet for me.

I keep thinking how versatile it is. I can putter around at 2-3k rpms or I can let it go. I love on ramps. I like being able to merge at 75-80 mph. Don't wanna let me in? Ok, I'll pass you.

bluestar1 · October 2003

saw somewhere on the other popular Trix website that the main edge of XRS over XR starts above 6000rpm. The top end speed for both is a whisker apart as rpm climbs with identical power curve up to 110mph. However everything changes when lift kicks in at 6500rpm for the XRS, the XR is left eating its own dust at such elevated rpm. ? for you: Do you need to drive around at >6000rpm everytime to really get the butt-kicking feel of the XRS? Yeah, I've read about how the XRS is rev happy, but I kinda wonder if that is a good thing on the lifespan of the 2ZZ Yamaha engine.

BUT, I am intrigued enough to go test drive an XRS, just for kicks....

mikus · October 2003

And if you did not go above 6000 rpm, you did not feel real XRS

capitano · October 2003

I find that I don't "need" to get into lift to have fun. Sometimes I hit it, sometimes I don't. I shift when I feel like shifting based on the situation at the moment.

The XRS doesn't have to get into the lift range to get more power than the XR and the handling is better at all speeds.

nippononly · October 2003

the handling is MUCH better in the XRS! Don't be fooled! The XR is a rolling couch next to the XRS.

I LIVE above 6000 rpm in this car! But you have to drive both to appreciate the difference below that engine speed. The XR engine feels suffocated by emissions controls by comparison. It is less connected, less quick to respond and rev, slower to slow down when you take your foot off the gas. (It is also MUCH lower emissions than the XRS engine). The stick and clutch engagement are couchlike also in the XR, by comparison with the XRS.

The 2ZZ is the same engine in the celica GTS, and from what I understood reading about it in the past, it is specially reinforced for high speed operation, so I don't think being above 6K rpm a lot would significantly decrease the life of the engine. If you own an XRS and don't engage the extra lift above 6000 rpm regularly, I think you would be missing a good part of the fun of this car.

I am back in the rental this week, which of course (because it is a rental) is an auto ('03), and it is a bummer that the gears are so far apart that when you floor it, it will only go up to about 7400 rpm (below redline) and when it shifts will fall back out of the high-powerband for a time. In my recent test drive of an '04, I had the salesman on my right, and so did not bring it up to redline at every shift, but in the 6-speed can you keep the engine in the powerband at each shift?

capitano · October 2003

Yes, you can keep the engine in lift with the six speed. Matrix owner and enthusiast sites even have some video of guys doing it in a celica. 120mph in 5th gear. If you can't shift enough you might not land in lift but you'll be close.

matthew525 · October 2003

I drove both back last Dec. Settled on the XRS for the reasons you've mentioned - my spousal unit doesn't like me when we exceed 6K RPM; so we take the Avy when we're together. Kind of miss her in the XRS right up to 6000 RPM! BTW: gas mileage still remains above 29mpg. But who really cares.

carlisimo · October 2003

How's visibility out the back? I rented a Vibe once and I was frustrated by how little I could see when turning my head. I know you can drive just using the mirrors but I'm used to older cars with plenty of window space and sometimes without a right side mirror. I think visibility will be a big factor in what I end up buying.

bluestar1 · October 2003

When you hit 6500rpm, what speedo are you at ? I have never driven a car up to anything beyond 4000rpm, even then my LS400 will be well beyond 120mph anywhere >3500rpm, so I'd never imagine driving in the stratosphere of 6000rpm+. I'd speculate you have to be well above 130mph at lift, right ? BTW, since most speed limits are 70mph or less, I don't see how any XRS driver could ever stay within limit, with such a rev happy car, or can you guys do it ?

mikus · October 2003

You remember that the car has a gearbox, don't you?

One can easily rev it up to 8K on the first or second gear, still staying within speed limit

The higher gears the easier to keep engine within the "high" zone, because the gap between gears is smaller. I guess, about 1200-1500 on the 1-2, and about only 600 on 5-6. Something like that. So, if you managed not to drop when changing to second, you are in money

capitano · October 2003

Gee, I think the highest gear I've lift in is 3rd.

From the reviews I read, the visibility in the Vibe is a little worse than the Matrix because of the thicker D pillars. It's fine for me, roughly comparable to my old pathfinder.

nippononly · October 2003

what speed are you at when first gear hits lift?

If this car were raspy or rough at high speeds, driving it that way would be no fun, but the 2ZZ is so smooth that it begs to be driven at those rpm.

The auto is hard to keep on boil around town, because the gears are so far apart. Lift occurs in second around 60-65 mph. But I assume that in the 6-speed lift occurs in first and second at much lower vehicle speeds?

capitano · October 2003

It looks like I hit lift in 1st gear around 33mph.

nippononly · October 2003

that's much better...I notice that even at 4-5K there is good pulling power, it is just below 3K or so that it tends to lag a bit. That settles my mind as to the question of whether or not it would bog around town at low speeds.

bluestar1 · October 2003

I meant to ask that when you stay in the *lift zone*, what speedo range is that ? My guess is that it gotta be >100mph at 5th gear, and >6500rpm. And that is well above speed limit. I suppose that is what I am aiming at, lol ! But seems you guys are hitting lift in 2nd or 3rd gear.

capitano · October 2003

Lift is only dependent on engine rpm and not groundspeed. You can hit lift in 1st 2nd and 3rd and not exceed most highway speed limits.

There's a video of a celica driver who launches at 5k, shifts to 2nd at redline and just over 40mph. After the shift he is still in lift and then he shifts into 3rd at 65-70mph.

mikus · October 2003

> Lift is only dependent on engine rpm and not groundspeed.

Yep. This is the whole point, to get the most acceleration right from the start. Short first gear helps, because it revs up quickly to the "high" zone, and then you just have to keep the engine revs there

nippononly · October 2003

a car with only 132 ft-lb of torque on tap can really use a super-short first gear! One drive over the hills of San Francisco will convince you. :-)

planetdon · October 2003

Does anyone know?

nippononly · October 2003

can now be had with the moonroof AND the 17" rims. Previously, you had to pick one or the other. Also, the gauges on all trims have changed from deep red lighting to red and blue numbering with white accents and a white odo/outside temp display.

Finally, the prices for middle of the line XR models with popular equipment have actually dropped a little bit due to new equipment packages that reduce the price: I recently configured an '04 exactly the same as my '03 XR and it wound up about $300 cheaper!

I don't know of any other changes: it shouldn't be changing that much, since it is only in its second year.

malibu_jack · October 2003

I could be wrong on this, but I think the only diff is the new gauge cluster....and possibly a couple new colours.

matthew525 · October 2003

Sorry I didn't answer earlier - up in DC last week. If I ever get the chance to push 6k RPMs in fifth or sixth gear it had better be on the open plains of Montana; we're going to need wings for the time we spend airborne if we hit a bump. Don't like pushing more that 4K in first; up to 6K in second and third. In fourth gear, 4K is usually just beyond the speed limits so I move to fifth and sixth. Normally, I push 6K when accelerating onto the Interstate where I can quickly get to 65-75 mph . I have not had the safe opportunity to run faster than 3500 rpm (~90 mph) in sixth gear because of traffic, road conditions and local environments. Just waiting to go out west to the "Resume safe speed" limit roads and see what she really can do. As noted above, it is geared to move quickly - but she's isn't a sport car.

Rear visual are good; I make a conscious effort to look over both shoulders when moving between lanes, check both mirrors, and ramp the prm which are all a result of European driving lessons.

faifai83 · October 2003

Hi there,

I recently purchased an '04 Matrix XRS a month ago thinking that I had following underneath my hood:

1.8-liter DOHC
16-valve VVTL-i
4-cylinder
180 hp @ 7,600 rpm
130 lb.-ft. @ 6,800 rpm

Unfortunately, Toyota recently downgraded their specs to the following:

1.8-liter DOHC
16-valve VVT-i
4-cylinder
173 hp @ 7,600 rpm
127 lb.-ft. @ 4,400 rpm

Toyota's '04 Matrix Brochure states that it has 180 hp, which was the reason I purchsed the vehicle.

If you guys also feel you have been cheated, please let Toyota know at 1-800-331-4331 Ext. 3(M-F from 6 am - 6 pm)

Hopefully, Toyota will do something about it.

When Hyundai misstated their hp figures, they extended the bumper to bumper warranty by an additional two years.

When Mazda recently misstated the hp figures on the RX-8 to 250 hp when it really had 238 hp, Mazda offered it's owners a choice of FREE scheduled maintenance during warranty period, in addition to $2000 in gas money. If you didn't like that idea, Mazda offered to buy the car back.

capitano · October 2003

It did seem odd that Pontiac had adjusted numbers downward and Toyota didn't.

Numbes aside, is there any measureable difference in how a 2003 and 2004 XRS actually drive?

I am somewhat disappointed in the drop in numbers, but I am still more than satisfied with the car.

faifai83 · October 2003

Personally, since I own the '04 Matrix XRS, I haven't driven the '03 Matrix XRS so I wouldn't know personally.

nippononly · October 2003

that it would be impossible to notice this difference outside a race track. However, it is true that the precedent is there from other car companies for compensating buyers who are misinformed in this manner.

So the torque peak now occurs much lower down in the engine speed: should make for better round-town driving. I wonder what was changed? I will bet it is something to do with stricter emissions requirements - the engine in the '03 was from the '00 Celica GTS and had been unchanged since its introduction way back then. Even in 2000 it was a high-emissions engine.

montanafan · October 2003

2004 has an air pump system, I have read. Hence the new operation numbers.
The difference, I believe, between the Ford/Mazda/Hyundai cases and this Toyota case, is that in the other cases the manufacturers actually thought the higher numbers were correct and then where proven wrong. Toyota has just corrected an error in specs. I am sure there are disclaimers in their catalogs and on their websites that cover them.

Toyota Matrix

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