Toyota Matrix

nippononly · October 2003

be an emissions thing!! :-)

framenknit · October 2003

I am picking up my new toy today. After having had a Honda Civic for 16 years and 114,000 miles I went with a new Mercury Tracer. Bad mistake. After94,000 miles & 5 years of mini problems that just didn't quite get done right, I am looking forward to having a long-lasting relationship with my shiny new Matrix. Will post more after I have driven it awhile.

nippononly · October 2003

that yellow on the Matrix! Congrats! :-)

loudog2 · November 2003

I just got a '04 matrix xr 4wheel drive fully loaded(sunroof, 6-disc changer, automatic, power windows-locks-mirrors, mats w/cargomat, bumper protector, underbody spoilers, fog lights and cruise control). msrp $20,220. got it for $18,500. is this a good price?

herzogtum71 · November 2003

We got our '03 Matrix 4WD for a bit less than that but without some of your features. I'd say you got a reasonable deal on a popular car. In our case we went through the local dealer rather than the AAA buying plan, where we may have saved a few bucks, because the dealer was willing to price the vehicle at a percentage above the factory invoice.

amiro · November 2003

Hi everybody, I'm looking for a car with decent cargo space with the seats up (we're getting a dog), and I came across the Matrix. I'm confused though, because I've seen 2 numbers referred to. The mfr specs say 21.8 cu. feet, but many places say it's about 15 feet, big difference. Yahoo Autos says it's the difference between EPA (what's that?) and mfr specs.

Thanks for any clarification.

The Protege5 has about 20, if I'm correct, and the Golf hatchback about 18, so they're a bit on the small side I think.

nippononly · November 2003

in the Matrix is not seats up, but seats DOWN: 53 cubic feet of space. It can carry a lot of stuff when those seats are down. I think that is almost as much as the Explorer and other midsize SUVs.

As for the discrepancy, I think Toyota's figure with seats up (21.8) includes the underfloor storage bin in the far back. It can hold quite a bit. But the EPA number only includes what is above the floorboards, so to speak. And the Matrix has a sloped hatch which limits space behind the back seat more than in those others you named, like Golf, which is more squareish. So it depends on how much you like to stack stuff up to the roof.

herzogtum71 · November 2003

This is the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, which is involved with comparative rating of vehicles sold in this country -- cargo volume, passanger volume, miles per gallon, etc.

I haven't looked at the Golf for quite a while, but I think it might be a bit smaller than the Matrix. The under-floor storage that nippononly mentions is good only for certain things. It's big enough for a tire pump, the hold-down brackets and tonneau cover that come with the car, and other smaller items. Not big enough for a duffle bag or anything like that.

If the dog you are getting is any size at all, you might want to look at the RAV-4. Toyota lists the cargo area behind the rear seat as 29.2 cubic feet. It's not as fuel efficient as the Matrix, but it's not bad either.

ajinca · November 2003

I recently purchased a 2004 XRS with no sunroof and the cassette/CD stereo for 17,300 so I think that price of 18,500 for AWD, sunroof and CD Changer sounds like a fair price.

steine13 · November 2003

(and I'll post this in the Vibe group as well)...
.. I just got a new Vibe, and I really really really like it, more so than I thought I would.

I was hauling 3 seats from my wife's smashed minivan in the back, with plenty room to spare. Impressive.

But my question: I heard some nasty cracking sounds while I was crawling around the back getting stuff in place... is the load floor meant to hold a person? I'm 180, maybe 190 pounds, and when most of that rests on one knee, I'm not sure that's a good idea... does anyone have any insight here?

TIA -Mathias

nippononly · November 2003

I have sat back there, and I weigh - ahem - SIGNIFICANTLY more than you (;-P) and I have not heard any cracking. It always seemed really sturdy to me. Perhaps a review of the manual is in order, although I am sure you could reasonably be expected to carry more than 200 pounds of gear back there from time to time - the total weight rating for the car is enough for 4 people and a bunch of gear, I remember that much.

budhinckley · November 2003

I own a Highlander and am looking at a Matrix. I'm 6'3 with a 33-inch inseam and long torso, so headroom and legroom are always an issue. I found the following dimensions for the two vehicles. Is it really possible that the Matrix has MORE front headroom AND legroom than the Highlander?

Bud

Matrix
Front Head Room: 40.6 in.
Front Hip Room: 51.7 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 53.2 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.8 in.

Highlander
Front Head Room: 40 in.
Front Hip Room: 55.1 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 57.9 in.
Front Leg Room: 40.7 in.

nippononly · November 2003

having driven the HL quite a bit (and owning a Matrix). You will notice that Matrix is a bit narrower (but by no means confining) but is very spacious for the driver and all the passengers.

oac3 · November 2003

I weigh much less than you and Nippon, at ONLY 160Ibs, and have sat on the cargo area numerous times while tailgating with friends and my kids out in the park. I have never heard any cracking or crunching sound. It felt solid to my rear behind

Maybe there is a diff b/w the Trix cargo design and the Vibe ? Dunno tho'. Should have gotten the Trix

mikus · November 2003

<steine13>
I heard some nasty cracking sounds while I was crawling around the back getting stuff in place... is the load floor meant to hold a person? I'm 180, maybe 190 pounds, and when most of that rests on one knee, I'm not sure that's a good idea... does anyone have any insight here?
</steine13>
pressure = force / square. Middle school, 6th grade.

steine13 · November 2003

Thanks, just what I was looking for.
-Mathias
[Check my profile]

mikus · November 2003

...so what did you expect? ;-) It is plastic, after all. Spread your weight, like Nippononly does ;-))

sejongs · November 2003

I was offered XR automatic, FW with many options without sunroof, alarm for $17400 OTD (3000 down + $400X36 months).
Is it a fair deal? Should I take it?
Thanks for your advise.

thermboy · November 2003

Anybody know why the Matrix has the lowest quality ratings of any Toyota?

I was really disappointed to see them. What kinds of quality issues are there?

nippononly · November 2003

and rattles and vibrations, everywhere you look. At least, in mine. Everything else is cool. And I think they have managed to fix this a year in, at least according to others posting here.

So far I have had three different ones fixed, but there are always more that crop up. The latest are the infamous dash squeak and moonroof rattle.

The same problem has afflicted the first year Camrys and Corollas of the current gen. :-(

Automobile mag has just completed their year with an XR - they are unthrilled with the powertrain (130 hp isn't enough for those hot-rodding auto mag editors, but on the flip side, they were very impressed with an overall mpg of 30 during their time with the car) and they had to have one rattle fixed themselves, but apart from that they seem to have liked it quite a bit.

thermboy · November 2003

Any other comments on why the Matrix gets such low initial quality ratings?

hudrahead · November 2003

Kinda ironic that the Matrix is screwed together @ a Toyota facility ( Canada) and exhibits all these quality problems but my Vibe comes from the NUMMI plant in California and has NO such problems and after close to 40k on the clock it is just as tight and rattle-free as the day I bought it. Since these vehicles are mechanically identical how do you account for such a non-typical lapse of quality on the part of the Canadian product? Maby they just do not put forth a maximum effort qualitywise on the cars they are shipping to the US. LOL !!

The only issue I have with the Vibe is the sloppy / thin paint on the rear facia and the dealer will repaint it under warranty if I wish.

HUD

:)

petl · November 2003

We have had ours (XR 4WD) for 18 months. No squeaks, rattles or vibrations. Still feels solid. Had 3 minor defects at time of purchase (dealer repaired).

thermboy · November 2003

The Pontiac Vibe has the same drivetrain and tranny as the Matrix? It's really a Toyota underneath?

steine13 · November 2003

Identical.

derosa · November 2003

FYI:
One thing Toyota is doing is adding standard options to optional equipment packages. For example:
My '04 Matrix sticker list "Extra Value Package #2, which includes; aluminum wheels, moonroof, cruise, fog lamps, spoiler, and day and night inner mirror. Well, the "day and night inner mirror" is the "Day and night rearview mirror" which is standard equipment on all Matrix's. I wonder if the sticker was printed incorrectly or it's a marketing thing to show more stuff in the packages.

hudrahead · November 2003

thermboy: take a look @ the latest issue of "Automobile" mag. They have a long term Matrix evaluation article that is interesting.

They listed several comments from actual owners. One that made me LOL was one owner complained about the many squeeks and rattles that his car had that he was wondering IF the thing was a real Toyota. His previous car was a CAVALIER !!!Now if a Cavalier owner is complaining about squeeks and rattles Toyota is really in big trouble in the quality control dept. Really strange. The next biggest gripe was of course the lack of power.

HUD

:)

thel · November 2003

Lunar mist, sunroof, 17's, cd-changer. Nice car overall. Good room in back. Quite a hoot to drive once you get over 6000 RPM's. I've put about 1100 miles on it in one week, but that includes a 3 hour trip from Kansas City.

GOOD: 6-speed, cd-changer, versatility, rear leg room.

BAD: Desperately needs a telescoping wheel. Clutch lets out a bit higher than I'm used to. Front leg room was tight, but I've fixed that (see below). Guages can be hard to read sometimes. Seating position is higher than I'd like, but that's the trend ***sigh***.

MODS: Just one so far. The left foot rest had to go. It pops out easily w/o fasteners and I got about 2 inches more left leg room down there!!

So anyone worried about front leg room should try removing their foot rest.

BTW, my mileage so far has been in the upper 20's but I've only filled up twice.

sb55 · November 2003

I test drove a basic 5 speed Vibe yesterday and it seemed quite "soft" and even loose around some corners. Just this morning I test drove a basic 5 speed Matrix, and it was much, much tighter (even "sporty"). The Vibe had continental tires and the Matrix had goodyears. Is the suspension different, or is it all related to the tires?
Since the basic Matrix (not the XR) has less content than the Vibe, it works out to less $$, even with the current $2000. GM rebate.
PS I have to assume that the tire pressures were set right.

thel · November 2003

Was summed up pretty good by a Dilbert cartoon I saw the other day. The characters were trying to decide how to market their new $.29 widget (or whatever it was).

They decided to price it at $1,000,000.29 and offer a mail in rebate of $1,000,000. In the end the widget (car) is worth what it's worth.

nippononly · November 2003

the tires make a lot of difference in the handling of this car. I am pretty sure the suspension is the same on Vibe and Matrix, and I have also noticed that the Goodyears provide much better handling than the Continentals (which I have). I plan to change out the tires as soon as the wear reaches just enough for my frugal nature to allow it! ;-)

22K so far, and the Continentals are less than half worn.

thel · November 2003

I think that says it all. Just about any tire that wears that slowly would not be considered a great handler.

fullmoon2 · November 2003

Hello,
I have been shopping around to buy a matrix...
my question is, 'do the matrix idle w/gas?' if so how much?? For when trying out the matrix...I did not even have to put my foot on the gas pedal & it pulled right out of the parking spot as I turned...is that normal??? I asked the salesman about it...he replied that all toyota idles.

Thanks so much for a reply...

nippononly · November 2003

not sure I understand your question, but if you mean does it idle high when it is cold, the answer is yes. So do most new cars. In the case of matrix, it is about 1800 rpm when it is stone cold. You will find this idle drops very soon after you get rolling.

Of course, if it is an automatic, it will roll in gear on a flat road at any temperature if you take your foot off the brake. This is also normal for all cars.

If it was a manual, then yes, I imagine you could get the car rolling at stone cold just by releasing the clutch, without using the gas pedal. You would only be able to do so for the first minute of operation, because after that the idle would drop.

thel · December 2003

will go with a minimal amount of gas before engaging the clutch. Most other cars, I'll let the clutch out sort of slowly, not riding it, but slow. With the Matrix, if I do that I get this horrible burning smell. So now, I just let the clutch pedal out just short of popping it and off I go nice and smooth w/o the burning smell.

BTW, my XRS has about 1,300 miles on it and has doen this since I bought it about 2-3 weeks ago.

thel · December 2003

I just read somewhere that the 04 XRS has been "downgraded" to only 173 horsepower. When did this ocurr? I bought mine last month thinking that it had 180 hp like the 03's did.

What did Toyota do to the car? When did this info come out? I just checked the specs here on Edmunds and they confirm that the 04 XRS has 173 hp.

What's the deal??? When Mazda did this with the 01 Miata and the 04 RX-8 they offered $500 with free maintainence or a buyback of the car. Did Toyota do something similar?

nippononly · December 2003

but this was announced for the '04 model revision. The info has been available for some time. Toyota added a smog pump to the '04 2ZZ to meet new stricter emissions regs this year in California. The extra air pump sucks seven hp away from the wheels...

FWIW, it is unlikely that you will be able to tell the power diff between '03s and '04s, but Toyota did play fair here. The Toyota webiste and the brochure do say 173 hp and have as long as the '04 has been available.

thel · December 2003

It's more annoying than anything. My Miata was "robbed" of about 13 hp due to California's emission regulations and I was disappointed to see the same thing happen to the Matrix.

The deal was that I've known since the Matrix first came out that the XRS has the Celica GTS engine with 180 hp. When I went to buy my 04, it never ocurred to me that it would be any different. Now if I was buying an 07, I would expect substantial changes from 03...but then again, engines usually GAIN hp, rather than lose it.

hudrahead · December 2003

C'mon, a smog pump in this day & age ?? That was technology of the 1970's for god's sake. Remember the dreaded "thermactor pump" on the Ford products of that era ? Took mine off my new Mustang the day I brought it home. I think it's still out in the garage somewhere LOL. What is Toyota thinking of,jacking their customers around with crap like that.

HUD

:)

nippononly · December 2003

when the current celica came out, the 2ZZ was a dirty engine emissions-wise. That was four years ago.

This year Cali went to LEV-II, and all the standards got even tighter...the "old" engine just wasn't cutting it any more. So they added the pump as a short-term stopgap so as not to redesign the whole engine. Celica's run is almost up, and I imagine there will only be about two years beyond that for using the 2ZZ in the Matrix and (coming next year) Corolla. Or maybe once celica goes, they will switch to using the S/C on the 1ZZ for the XRS models.

I wonder which would create more power loss: using the smog pump they chose to use, or adding cats on the exhaust side. I am sure the cats would have cost more than the pump.

thel · December 2003

California for their annoying regulations or Toyota for their half-arsed way of dealing with it....argh.

rabbott2 · December 2003

The dealer says Matrix is based on a Corolla, should have the same amount of room in the rear seat. A rear-facing infant or child seat in our '01 Corolla makes the front seat very cramped! Front-facing is much better, but Corolla is still a small car.

Most folks on this discussion board seem to comment on how spacious the Matrix is, but has anyone tried an infant/child seat, and how well does it fit?? I may have to go with a Camry or '04 Prius (now a midsize??) if they are larger. Any suggestions out there? Thanks.

(Need to decide soon, some chick in a parking lot hit my 1987 Tercel wagon because she couldn't slow down or STOP before going around a corner...an ignominious end for a great little car with 238K mi on original engine and clutch! Not worth much to the insurance co, but still runs like a champ. sniffle.)

decaturga · December 2003

I bought my Matrix specifically for a family car. We have 1 child (2 1/2) in a Brittax forward facing seat. There is plenty of room for him. We have a baby due in Feb and I installed the baby seat and there seemed to be plenty of room for my wife to sit up front (she is 6' tall). They are in the rear facing seat for such a short time anyway, especially if you keep you Matrix for 230,000Miles!!!!!

Matrix has been a great car for us so far!!!

hudrahead · December 2003

nippon: Plus it's a whole lot easier to "neutralize" the smog pump by gutting the thing and a lot less obvious than twiddling with the cat convert plumbing. Internally they are nothing more than a little centrifugal air pump.

Really funny that back "in the day" my vehicles always passed emissions with flying colors with the "pump" only acting as a idler pulley LOL !Those west coast tree huggers will be the death of the auto as we know it. If they have their way we'll all be driving hybrids within the next ten years.

HUD

:)

nippononly · December 2003

I'm a west coast tree hugger! :-)

I am surprised that Toyota ever introduced such a dirty engine as the 2ZZ, given that the writing was well and truly on the wall in 1999. But man! Is it ever fun to drive. I have driven the celica and now the Matrix versions - the celica has a much better shifter feel. But it is awesome keeping it revving above 6K.

I prefer that high-rpm rush to having an S/C added to the 1ZZ. I hope they keep issuing this engine in Matrix and Corolla, air pump an' all, once the celica goes away.

nippononly · December 2003

has a much roomier back seat than Corolla. It is one of the reasons I chose it. I have a friend with a ten-month-old who I give rides to a lot, and putting the baby in the back seat doesn't steal room from anyone. The front seat can still be most of the way back on its track.

mcdawgg · December 2003

The '01 Corolla has much less rear seat room than the '03 Corolla.

thel · December 2003

My soon-to-be-3-year-old's front facing seat has adequate room. I put it right behind my driver's seat and she can still easily kick the seat. I don't think I could fit a rear-facing seat behind me, it would have to go on the passenger side or in the middle (safest place BTW).

Rear facing fit fine in our old 2001 CR-V. It was a tight squeeze in a P5 as well, but the Matrix has a bit more room in back than a P5 has(d).

mtnbikes · December 2003

Hi,

I am looking into small stationwagons, and need to carry bikes. I am interested in knowing if anyone has any experience trying to carry bikes on the factory roof rack on the Matrix?

Thanks, Marty

vcarreras · December 2003

Is everyone happy with the size of your Matrix? To me it seems too small. Have driven a few and thought it would be a good replacement for the wifes 93' Villager minivan. BUT when I drove it I felt the Matrix was just too small. Next step up is the Sienna which has GROWN in size. The Highlander is another option.

Toyota builds two wagons which are not here. One the WISH http://www.toyotametro.co.th/WISH/ and the Avensis. Both are a bit larger than the Matrix and seat 7. As Matrix owners if you had to move up would you consider a Sienna or possibly a WISH.

Toyota Matrix

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