Toyota Matrix

herzogtum71 · February 2004

Check posts 88-95 in "Toyota Matrix vs. Pontiac Vibe -- Compare Notes." (These are from November 2002, and at that time the discussion apparently was called "Matrix & Vibe Enthusiasts -- Compare Notes."

The brochure I picked up about the Matrix at the time we were purchasing it in August 2002 claims this about the drivetrains:

"Front engine, front or full-time 4-wheel drive (full-time 4WD available on Matrix and Matrix XR only)."

If the Matrix 4WD is 10 percent rear under normal driving conditions that statement is technically true. According to a post by nippononly, this is the same system as Subarus with automatic transmission and still basically FWD that reacts to slippage.

I couldn't find a statement about the 4WD system at www.toyota.ca. If you could provide the exact url I would be interested in how it is worded.

They wouldn't have changed the 4WD system in the Matrix for the 2004 models, would they?

nippononly · February 2004

they wouldn't have changed the system for '04. It is a 90/10 system, not so different from the one Subaru uses in its automatic-equipped cars. I do not remember how much power it can shift to the back if need be, but if it is worth its salt, it should be able to get to 50/50 when things get slippery.

nippononly · February 2004

there is word in the Vibe thread that it gets a restyle for '05. Is there any indication that Toyota will do something similar for Matrix? I have a feeling it might be a little early - Toyota normally goes three model years before the mid-cycle reskin.

petl · February 2004

Not too sure about the 10% rear under normal driving conditions. When we purchased our XR 4WD in March 2002, we were always under the impression (based on the information available at the time) that it was a FWD until slipage was detected. Only then would the additional traction (rear wheels) kick in. That's the way it's described in Toyota Canada's web site. How to get there 1) www.toyota.ca, 2) vehicles, 3) Matrix, 4) handling. Either way it works well.

herzogtum71 · February 2004

I think I found the statement you are referring to:

"All Out.
Matrix is always in the groove. And can change tempo and rhythm in a heartbeat. Touring in front-wheel-drive, the V-flex system kicks in automatically to provide 4-wheel traction when required. Go ahead. Step up."

Since the Matrix is made in Ontario, the 4WD system would have to be the same for the U.S. and Canadian markets. Can anyone explain the discrepancy between the "full-time 4WD" statement in the brochure for the 2003 model that I have and the FWD becomes 4WD statement on the Canadian website?

I had an '89 Nissan Sentra AWD wagon for many years that definitely was described as FWD until slippage. (That was the only year they made this particular system -- different from the 4WD system the Sentra had through 1988.) I must admit that I don't notice nearly as much slippage with the Matrix as with the old Nissan. Whether this should be attributed to a full-time 10% in the rear or to some other factor, I don't know.

petl · February 2004

My original brochure describes the 4WD drivetrain as "fully automatic V-Flex 4WD". Also an article in Autonet ca (November 30, 2001) explains the system this way "The Matrix 4WD's V-Flex drive system acts just like a FWD in normal operation. However, slippage of a front drive wheel causes a viscous coupling in the drivetrain to activate 4WD, transferring up to fifty per cent of power to the rear wheels. When both front wheels have traction again, all the power goes back to the front wheels." There are a couple more reviews that describe the system in the same fashion (Yahoo Canada Autos, Triple Plate.com). That has always been my understanding of how it worked.

I guess we have to keep in mind that this is a totally new system and should not be compared to anything else out there. Works for me (today is the 1st day the Camry has been out for a spin since before Christmas). I wish they would manufacture this type of vehicle based on the Camry platform (don't want a Highlander).

herzogtum71 · February 2004

I took my wife's Matrix in this morning to have the oil changed and the AC filter replaced, and I took the opportunity to ask the service manager to explain in simple terms how the 4WD system works. For what it's worth, I will pass on his comments here.

He said the 4WD senses slippage and routes up to 50 percent power to the rear wheels. There always is a certain percentage of power, about 10 percent, going to the rear wheels. The ratio changes a bit even in dry conditions when going around corners.
When I asked specifically about it being basically FWD in normal driving conditions, he said that was not the case for the reasons just mentioned.

dwightliv · February 2004

Just got a new, base model Matrix with power package. Love the car, but what's with the radio? It doesn't sound broken, but the quality is not what I'd expect. I'm usually not fussy about sound, but my last car was an '86 Mercury Lynx with a stock radio, and it sounded better than this. The sound is a little cheap, like it's coming from a cardboard tube. Music is so-so, and it's a little hard to understand talk. The base is worst, so I've raised the treble.

Have others found this? Should I try to get this fixed or get a new radio?

Thanks

Dwight

herzogtum71 · February 2004

The first time I played a cassette tape in mine I wondered the same thing. Then I discovered that the equilizer setting from the radio had not carried over to the tape. It made a big difference in the sound. Basically I'm happy with the sound from the stereo system in our Matrix. Only complaint is that the speakers seemt to rattle a bit too easily if the volume is cranked up a bit and there is heavy bass.

petl · February 2004

What the service manager has stated is, to some extent, accurate. However, to my knowledge there are times when the Matrix is propelled solely by the front wheels. Every article I have read to date, including Toyota's written explanation indicates that, until slippage is detected, the front wheels drive the Matrix. The amount tranferred to the rear wheel veries depending on the circumstances. That is one of the reasons why we unloaded the wife's RAV for the Matrix.

We could beat this drum forever. The important issue is that the V-flex system is flawless and completely transparent. Please let me know if there is any written documention on how the V-flex system actually works (specifically the 10% thing). Thanks.

herzogtum71 · February 2004

There doesn't seem to be much out there in writing other than the Canadian resouces you have mentioned.

I did find a site about the Voltz -- http://www.stepmathauto.com/voltz_info.htm -- which is the version of the Matrix/Vibe built in California for export to Japan that had this to say:

Four-wheel-drive system
A V*-flex full-time 4WD system with a viscous coupling located in the front part of the rear differential provides torque distribution that approaches that of FF vehicles during regular forward movement and optimally distributes torque to the front and rear wheels while driving on slippery surfaces and when cornering.
*Viscous coupling

I think the use of the word "approaches" is interesting here. FF is the designation used elsewhere on the site to refer to the FWD models, and the source of the article is listed as Toyota of Japan.

There also is a site http://autozine.kyul.net/index.html
that says something about the Matrix being pure FWD in normal driving conditions. I am not sure who is responsible for having created that site, though.

Some other sites (for example http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/siegel/x2812-sgl.htm) state that the Matrix is "full-time" 4WD, but no details are provided on what exactly that means.

mralan · February 2004

Since they share drivetrains why doesn't the Matrix and Corolla get identical gas mileage?

ed_scott0013 · February 2004

The Matrix weighs more than the Corolla, so it needs more fuel to move around.

nippononly · February 2004

having a higher profile, which presumably creates more drag.

thel · February 2004

Also creates turbulence which increases wind resistance which reduces gas mileage which in turns means more frequent trips to the gas station which leads to higher gas bills which leads to less money in your account which leads to less savings which leads to trouble in the unfortunate case of an emergency which could lead to becoming bankrupt which is why the Matrix is a more risky purchase than a regular Corolla.

Maybe I can get an award for the longest sentence in this thread?!

nippononly · February 2004

both Corolla and Matrix are fairly inexpensive as cars go...

thel · February 2004

If you're referring to my rather nonsensical post, I was merely poking a bit of fun at myself. In the process of making a point about the rear-end of the Matrix and the aerodynamics, I found that I was using "which" a lot and I got carried away.

BTW, my XRS gets only about 25 mpg. Not sure about the regular ones (1zz motor??). Ever since I had my Miata, I didn't really care about gas mileage as long as it was at least in the low-mid 20's and I could go fast. C5 gets about 20 with 350 hp! Woo hoo!!!

matthew525 · February 2004

Gas mileage - do you really care, and if you do, what are you going to do about it? Sell your car? Poor gas mileage will cost you a few hundred dollars extra each year. Trade for a better car if your really seeking mileage; but we normally wont because when we drive, were having fun. And as long as the car lets us have fun, we'll complain about the gas mileage and keep the car. Do you really care.

hudrahead · February 2004

matt: I agree. Folks should quit the belly aching about gas mileage. Heck, gas prices in the USA as high as they currently are, are some of the lowest in the world. In the places that do have cheap gas you would NOT want to live there anyway. We Americans are SO spoiled about everything in our lives I shuddder to think how the "poor little kids" out there will ever survive if we REALLY hit tough times. Maby a good old 1930's style depression would be a good thing to wake up some of the spoiled brats we have created ! LOL !!

HUD:):)

zombo · February 2004

Some people not all.Better gas mi. usually translates into less greenhouse gases.I'm not preaching here just stating fact,people are free to do whatever they want.The base and XR are ULEV(ultra low emmission vehicles) vehicles,while the XRS is rated TLEV (transitional low emmission vehicle) about two grades worse than ULEV .There is a government website that tells what gas mi. every car and truck will get as well as their amount of exhaust emmissions and estimated fuel cost per year.Any Matrix is way better than an oversized SUV in any case. The site is at: www.fueleconomy.gov

deg856 · February 2004

1. Take off: a little worse than expected. It felt sluggish, and the engine note was louder and sounded more strained than expected. I thoguht it would be more refined from a Toyota.

2. Once it got rolling: Went up to about 75 mph ( just over 3000 rpm in top gear) and it sounded and felt fine.

3. Handling and ride: Not too soft, about expected.

4. Gauges and dash - Beautiful gauges, and overall it looks up-scale. Numbers and LCD display in the gauges are now a cool white color - I like it better than the orange before. The speedometer now maxes out at 120 mph, which is easier to read than the useless 140 mph max marking before.

5. Seats and passenger space - high seating position feels good, and plenty of passenger space front and back for four six-footers. I really like the hard-wearing looking seat fabric.

I've been cross shopping between Matrix and CR-V. I'm heavily leaning toward the Matrix because of its better looking interior and better ride and handling.

San Jose, CA

dmundy1 · February 2004

Just returned from the Canadian Intl Autoshow and they had a 2005 "Prototype" Matrix XR on display with a few changes compared to the 03-04. The grill is slightly different, the honeycomb look is broken up by a solid line in the middle (don't like it), the fog/driving lights are now closer to the edges of the newly designed front bumper (similar to the Vibes) as opposed to the current design where they are closer to the middle. The taillights have a clear look to them as opposed to the current red look. Inside cloth looks like it has changed slightly, but the car was locked and I could not touch it. The radio was different with the buttons more flush to the radio face, and it had 'Toyota' stamped on the top, unlike the GM sourced radio that did not have a name on it. Very subtle changes overall, and they are available in Canada this spring according to the posted sign.

tommyg12 · February 2004

You will not be disappointed. Actually, and maybe others will agree, after about 1,200 miles my Matrix seems smoother in ways. The engine feels like it revs better and I swear the car drives and rides better than when it had .8 miles on it. Good luck in your search.

dealhunter · February 2004

I'm shopping around for a Matrix, used edmunds, know exactly what I want, and received a few quotes from dealers. I have a loan approved but didn't consider buying the extended warranty.

Bottomline is do I need it?

thel · February 2004

I didn't feel I needed it, but then I don't usually keep cars for very long so...

Anyway, the only car I've every used an extended warranty for was a 97 Sable. That warranty paid for itself a couple of times over before I finally dumped the car for an import.

tommyg12 · February 2004

The only time I have ever bought them has been WHEN the car is almost out of warranty (and I'm planning to keep it). I don' see the reason to buy an extended warranty until the original warranty is almost up (unless you really need the cost of the warranty rolled in with the payment). You can shop around and haggle the prices of warranties. I would recommend sticking with a factory Toyota warranty. Also, when buying a warranty several miles/years later, the dealer selling you the warranty will inspect the car and probably require inspection of your maintenance records.

deg856 · March 2004

Just got my silver XR yesterday. This car is not handsome, but its very distinctive and very interesting to look at. Overall it looks like the characters in Jimmy Neutron  a very big head on a very small body. The unusual shape makes it hard to judge its size by association. By itself it looks like a small car about the size of a Gulf. Park it next to an Accord or even a Sienna for comparison, you suddenly realize its actually pretty big. Move it away from other cars and it looks small again.

The Optitron gauges look beautiful. I love the way the needles glow red for about a second before the dials are lit. The controls and ride are so buttery smooth and quiet, like a Sienna (this really surprised me for whats basically an economy car), except much nimbler. The 6-disc changer stereo looks much better than the base unit. While the base unit (single disc stereo) has a muddy orange display with big numbers that look out of focus (and cheap), the display on the 6-disc changer is red, smaller, and sharply defined to have a precision instrument look.

By the way, I picked the Matrix over Mazda 3 hatchback (more sporty, but not enough utility) and Honda CR-V (too un-sporty, bigger than I need). I also thought about getting a Murano (very nice) real hard at the last moment, but thats a different story.

San Jose, CA

taykinitezy · March 2004

hello all, I have been shopping the Matrix and Mazda 3 hatch. Each one has it's pros and cons. I am trying to gather input from anyone that may have also compared the two. I am undecided and hope that someone can give me some info on their comparison and buying decision.......thanks.

backy · March 2004

I've taken a good look at both of these. IMO the Matrix is ahead on cargo room, rear seat comfort, ride comfort, and price (pretty loaded for about $17.5K + T&L). The Mazda3 has better handling, more power, and is better looking (IMO). Both should be reliable. So if you need to haul a lot of people/gear, the Matrix might be the one. If you like sportier performance/handling, the Mazda should come out on top.

nippononly · March 2004

the newer design: more power and a lot more road noise.

The Matrix is a lot more space for the dollar.

bamacar · March 2004

I have driven both cars and agree with most of what has been said about sporty performance versus space, but not with a few things. The ride seemed about the same to me in both not soft in either. Road noise and engine noise seemed to be about the same also maybe even noisier in the Matrix. The shifter and clutch action is much slicker in the 3. Utility and MPG go Matrix; everything else go with the 3.

deg856 · March 2004

I wont dispute that Mazda 3 hatch is better looking than the Matrix in the normal sense to most people, but then again, its just another pretty car among many pretty cars. What draws me to the Matrix is that it looks different. Its not handsome, but its unique, distinctive, daring and interesting, even a little weird, all in an anti-establishment sort of way. Now I look at normal looking cars and think: Boring!

San Jose, CA

nippononly · March 2004

a little, but I have only driven the Mazda3 hatch (and I used to own a Matrix). If you are looking at a Matrix XR or base, then the ride will be more damped than in the Mazda, and will also be quieter. The Mazda uses high performance low profile tires on the hatch, which make a LOT of noise. It is not high-pitched, but rather a constant deep rumble that competes well with the stereo for the loudness award.

The Mazda is a lot more buttoned down than the Matrix too. It is a smaller tighter package with sport in mind. The only really sporty Matrix is the XRS 6-speed, with better tires and tighter suspension, and even that model will damp rough pavement and expansion joints better than the Mazda (but it is noisy from the tires also, and costs about $3K more than the Mazda).

The only Matrix you would be looking at which is at the price point of the Mazda3 hatch is the XR, and that model has more body roll than the Mazda and the tires give relatively early in tight cornering. In other words, it is much more a "utility" than a "sport". But boy does it win the race for interior space and versatility. And the back seat is no contest either - you cram yourself into the back of the Mazda, and sit down and stretch out in the back of the Matrix. Better headroom in the Matrix too.

thel · March 2004

My view is a bit skewed b/c I have the XRS, but...The Matrix is bigger but most of the size is height which equates to 2 bad things: more body roll and a more upright (less comfortable to me) seating position.

The stock tires may be better than on the XR, but they are still pretty bad, not much traction wet or dry.

The only thing I know about the 3 for sure (haven't driven one), is that they are waay better looking, but less utility. I was initially drawn to the hard plastic, flat floor of the Matrix, but after a few trips to Lowes and hauling home some cut-up sheets of MDF, they slid all over the place and tore some large, unsilghtly gouges in the plastic...I'm not seeing the advantage over carpet back there. I guess if you hauled wet, slimy dogs or something it might be OK, but my back hatch area looks terrible...

taykinitezy · March 2004

I am curious as to how the daytime lights operate and any owner's thoughts on having them...thanks.

deg856 · March 2004

More upright is right. It seems even more upright than in a Sienna. My problem right now is with finding a good driving position. If I (6 w/ 32 inseam.) sit far back enough to get my right foot/leg comfortable on the gas pedal, the steering wheel feels too far away. Im playing with seatback angel and seat height to see if I can make it better. Its pretty different from the spread out driving position in a typical car/truck. A telescopic steering wheel (standard in the 3  amazing at this price point) would be great.

Agreed that the hard plastic cargo floor wont stand up to abuse cosmetically, but its like a truck bed  it will get dinged up if you use it hard. I still prefer it over carpeting. If you dont want it scratched, its a simple matter of putting down a mat and tie down the cargo (using the many tie-down hooks and straps) to prevent it from sliding around.

San Jose, CA

herzogtum71 · March 2004

"(and I used to own a Matrix)"
When did you get rid of your Matrix? What are you driving now? And what prompted the switch?

Running lights and headlights go on automatically in the Matrix. There is a round twilight sensor on the dashboard on the driver's side near the side pillar. There were some problems in early Matrixes with the sensor being overly sensitive and headlights going on and off frequently on sunny days when the pillar cast a shadow over the sensor. Our 4WD Matrix was delivered in late August 2002 and was one of the last VINs affected by a service bulletin on the problem. I had our sensor replaced (despite the fact that the service people said it wouldn't take care of the problem I was describing) and have had no trouble with the sensor since. Still, I would prefer deciding myself when to turn on the headlights. Running lights are on whenever the car is started, which I think is a good safety feature.

thel · March 2004

I am also 6'1" with a 32" inseam and experience the exact same problem with seating position. One thing that helped me was to remove the huge foot rest. That frees up quite a bit of room for your left foot. It's not great, but it's better. Telescoping wheel would be a god-send for this car...

nippononly · March 2004

yes, I turn on my own headlights now, and gawd what a relief!

I traded the Matrix on an RSX, which I really love. Way back in the infancy days of the Matrix, I made the enormous mistake of buying an automatic because Matrix was in such short supply, and no-one ever had a stick. It was the first auto I ever owned, and will be the last. That auto sucks whatever fun this car could be right out of it.

I still love the looks of the Matrix, and the way it could fit me and several friends with ease, but I never warmed to the easily marred plastic interior, especially the huge dash, and I had one of the early ones that just rattled incessantly. Every time I would have them fix a batch of rattles, there would be a new batch within a week or two. I traded it with three rattles that had started within a month prior: the right rear speaker cover, the A-pillar on the driver's side, and the moonroof.

The only cars I seriously considered besides the RSX I bought were the Mazda3 hatch (a couple of extensive test drives) and the Civic SI (ditto). In the end, the RSX felt like the nicest package for about the same price, at the cost of any back seat utility.

I would say if your emphasis is sport, Mazda is the winner vs Matrix XR (the XRS is a tie, but it is also more expensive). If your emphasis is utility, the winner is Matrix, no question. If style is the most important, I would say it is a toss-up, as is likely reliability.

And don't get me started on depreciation - that Matrix lost like 40% of its value in 18 months, but from everything I am reading, that is the new nature of the used car market these last couple of years, and maybe permanently from now on.

herzogtum71 · March 2004

Good luck with RSX. I hope you still will check the Matrix discussion now and then. You always were a good source of information, and just about all of it accurate as far as I could tell

nippononly · March 2004

thanks! I will be checking in here for a while yet. Of all the cars I ever bought new, the Matrix is probably my favorite in terms of styling. I am very curious to see what they will do for the minor update this year, and for the revamp for '07.

mtbcincy · March 2004

should be here in the next week. A base model Matrix (white) manual with power pkg. Don't really care for the color, but I really like the dealership and it was the only manual they had on it's way. Got it for 15,400. $100 over invoice, whatever that means. Anyway, I'd read the last 10 months or so of posts here, and now I feel more prepared than i ever wanted to be. I probably wouldn't have even noticed a noisy dash, or cheap faux metal rings before this. I have two questions for the forum. 1) Has anyone found a good way to cover the backs of the rear seats when they're down, but not have loose bits when they're up? 2) Can you disable the twilight sensor so it always thinks it is broad daylight? I'd rather not go through the drive-in theatre with my emergency brake partly engaged. I am formerly a motorcycle mechanic, and I've seen all types of safety switches get bypassed by locking in the open or closed circuit position(motorcycle kickstand switches never seemed to last more than a few years, then you have to get around them or replace them) Thanks in advance for any advice. John

mtbcincy · March 2004

for the multiple posts. I thought my computer was locking up and not posting. I'll be more careful in the future
John

thel · March 2004

I thought you were just really excited or something.

tnlandsailor · March 2004

I test drove an 04 XRS a while back and felt that the driver seat didn't scoot back far enough. I'm 6-1 with long legs. I found a knob on the lower left side that dropped the seat down and back a little which made it more comfortable and probably doable for me.

My question is, is this knob/adjustment available on the 03 model? How do some of you taller/long legged 03 Matrix owners feel about how you fit into your cars? Any insight would be helpful, thanks.

nippononly · March 2004

is the driver's seat height adjustment, and it is available on all XR/XRS models, including in '03. I always liked the seat fairly high in mine.

thel · March 2004

I am alos about 6'1" and find the seating position just barely tolerable. I removed the huge left foot rest and back the seat up enough so that I can barely reach the steering wheel at 2 and 10 o'clock. Not great, but tolerable...

maverick04 · March 2004

I'd just like to offer my opinion on the Matrix.
I haven't bought a car for 16 years. I was driving a dated Buick but it was recently totaled. My husband (6'2") and I test drove several cars first. We tried the Mazda3 but were impacted with how cheap the interior appeared and how loud the engine was. The car was too small for us as well. Nice exterior styling though.
We bought the Matrix XR 2WD/Auto. The Matrix XR is available in my area with an optional supercharged engine/suspension package, etc. all dealer installed for a cool $4100 extra. We drove one of these cars and the hp was remarkable. My auto trans can be computer tweeked (they call it a high-performance transmission!) to match the supercharged engine.
This Matrix has the QP Value #2 Package/AB/EJ/CK - We love it and plan to keep it for years to come. What a fun little grocery cart and in Phantom Grey it gets some very admiring looks too! Push a button and release the O/D and get a little extra thrust for scootin' around town. We will definitely replace the tires once we pay down the car a bit. I live in the SW and darker window tinting is next on the list.

bostonoriole · March 2004

Why does the Matrix weigh 400 pounds more than the Corolla, especially since it is 7 inches shorter? What are you getting for that extra weight?

Is the engine in the Matrix the same as the Corolla?

Is their any reason why the Matrix should be noisier than the Corolla, as Consumer Reports says?

Thanks

deg856 · March 2004

Mid-level autos FWD are less than 200lb apart between the two cars, so don't know where you got the 400lb difference. You're getting a much bigger interior with the Matrix.

Yes, except the XRS.

Body style (sedan vs wagon), tire size and type, suspension tuning, etc.

Toyota Matrix

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