Toyota Matrix

stillageek · August 2004

The Nav is only available on the Vibe. Toyota switched to Toyota only radios (previous were GM/Delco).

m4prius · August 2004

Can someone tell me why the Consumer Report Annual Auto Issue (April 04) Reliability Rating for the VIBE is higher than the Matrix??? Matrix is only average while VIBE is above average??? The transmission should be all Toyota and built in Japan...I know the engine parts are from USA...but I thought both VIBE and MATRIX would use the same engine components...whats up???

Mike

capitano · August 2004

Differences in the surveys submitted by owners. CR doesn't adjust the data based on reputation.

My guess would be that Vibe owners were more pleased with the reliability of the Vibe because of lower expectations while Matrix owners were less enthused because they expected more from a Toyota.

me_at_edmunds · August 2004

I placed an order for XR 05, exactly the same options as yours. I live in central NJ. The dealer said either 10 days if they can get it from a sister shop or 6-8 weeks if it's a factory order...

deg856 · August 2004

2004 XR auto FWD with 5426 mi. 344.4 mi on last tank. 11.576 gal fill-up.

budh · August 2004

In past year's versions of the Matrix a few years agp, there were complaints that the A/C did not put out enough cold air (both volume and not cold enough) than it should have.

Would these problems expect to still be present on the 2005 models?

Bud H

nippononly · August 2004

I would say check it out for yourself when you test drive it. I had one of the early ones, and I never had a problem with the A/C. Vibes had a problem because the temperature selector for the HVAC was incorrectly adjusted at the NUMMI factory, and it would not go as cold as it was supposed to. But the Matrix is manufactured in a different location.

As for volume, it doesn't blow as much as some larger American cars do, so people coming out of bigger cars probably noticed a decrease. If you go test drive on a hot day and crank up the A/C to max, it should be a fair test of how you are going to feel about it if you buy the car.

maverick04 · August 2004

I didn't get an alarm system on my 2004 Matrix, however I'm interested in installing one - would anyone have a recommendation for a type of system preferred?
Thanks

matrixva1 · September 2004

Thinking of buying an XR, and I wanted to know whether the 17" wheel option comes with all season tires. Do the 17" wheels make a big difference inhandling and ride?

thel · September 2004

has the 17's and my tires are plain old Bridgestone Potenza RE92's...what my wife's 04 Civic EX sedan came with BTW. The have a M + S rating for mud and snow, so yeah, they're no-season tires..er, I meant all-season tires.

I drove on them all winter (bought the car in November) and they were adequate but hardly sure-footed in the snow. I'm somewhat concerned about this upcoming winter with 15,000+ miles worth of wear.

I didn't even bother test driving an XR...knew I wasn't going the low-power route and the one I bought was the only XRS I'd found in the KC area so I can't really ocmpare the handling differences between the 16's and the 17's. I would expect any difference to be minimal at best. But then, my main daily driver is my 90 Miata so...

budh · September 2004

Back in 2001, I bought a Toyota Highlander V6 Limited. A big reason being that it had AWD (all wheel drive) and I had just moved to the lake effect snow ridden area of northern Indiana/southwest Michigan. The Highlander has VSC (vehicle stability control) and ABS (anti-lock braking system) as well as the AWD.

I am thinking of trading it in next year for a Toyota Matrix or other vehicle (that I can fit into - I'm 6'3" and head/leg room are issues). I have found that the VSC seems to be the BIG thing I like on the Highlander - that VSC system saved my bacon twice last winter when I started getting into a skid and the VSC almost magically got the car going straight down the road in only a second or two.

So I am starting to get the impression that the AWD feature is important only for getting the vehicle MOVING, and that the ABS and VSC are what keeps the vehicle on the road and stopping when you want it to stop which is WAY more important.

Since I live in a fairly flat area, I therefore have come to the conclusion that I didn't really need AWD after all. And that ABS and VSC are the must have options.

So when looking for a new vehicle in the near future, does it make sense that AWD isn't nearly as important as the ABS and VSC? (It's not that I can't monetarily afford to add the AWD, it's because gas mileage, horsepower, and even gasoline tank size suffer on many AWD models.)

Feel free to comment on the differences in the AWD types that the Highlander and Matrix have if important.

Bud H

nippononly · September 2004

merely brakes and reduces power when it senses loss of traction. AWD actually helps maintain it as the car pushes forward, and especially when turning in low-traction situations. It helps a lot to have a center differential-type that splits the power 50/50 most of the time, like the RAV does. I can't recall right offhand which type the Matrix has. Some are electronically controlled and are basically FWD until loss of grip is detected, which aren't as good. I would suspect that the Matrix uses the same type as the RAV since it is cheaper than the electronic kind (also heavier and more fuel-economy-reducing).

The only snow experience I get regularly is ski trips in the winter, and in those situations I have witnessed FWDers with VSC lose all traction and come to a halt, especially on uphill slopes like driveways and such.

petl · September 2004

You're right, because of the additional traction that any AWD/4WD system offers, they are mostly helfull for getting the vehicle moving. People forget these systems won't help you stop quicker.

The Matrix and the RAV have seperate systems. We've owned both (still have the Matrix). Both were great for getting us around on ice and snow covered roads. The Rav has the 50/50 split with 25% to each wheel (traction at all wheels is instant). With the Matrix the front wheels drive the vehicle until slippage is sensed. At which time the rear wheels kick in via a viscous coupling (it's a new system for Toyota). From what I can understand the system used in the Highlander is similar to the Rav's.

Contrary to most others, I'm not too crazy with the ABS in similar (ice and snow) conditions. Although you can steer while applied, I found the stopping distances to be longer (this is documented fact). I think that all of the features you mentioned (and others) have their strong and weak points. Depending on your driving style and location some will be more advantageous. To me the most important safety feature in any vehicle is the driver.

herzogtum71 · September 2004

The head of my service department explained Toyota's claim that the Matrix is full-time 4WD by saying that at all times at least 10 percent of the power is going to the rear wheels with no more than 90 percent to the front. If you do a search in this forum you can find a previous discussion on this. There doesn't seem to be anything definitive in print or on the internet about Toyota 4WD systems.

nippononly · October 2004

on the freeway today, I was behind a solid row of 'Trixes - they occupied every lane and spanned the freeway. Just a random occurrence, nothing planned I presume (they all went their separate ways before too long), but it was definitely a reminder of just how popular this model has become...

Only one was an '05 - all the others had the old-style taillights rather than the silver/clear ones. One had an aftermarket roof rack installed that was like one of those old basket-type designs you might see on Land Rovers from the 70s. Very clunky-looking - it ruined the lines of the car.

:-)

oac · October 2004

Still missing your Trix, I see

just j/k of course....

In 2005, it will appear that I'll be trading out of my Matrix for a 330ci. Had an unforgettable drive in a friend's 330ci recently, and cannot get over it. It is definitely a keeper for me - the Bimmer of course. After being a huge Toyota/Lexus-ophile for years, I'll be buying my first German car, and only the 3-series makes the cut for me. I'll most probably get a fairly used one, and wait to buy the 2006/2007 newly designed LSxxx. The wife wants an LX470 in 2005, so we'll do one for her (LX) and one for me (330ci). That should make both of us quite happy.

Oh, my '03 with 33K miles needs new shoes.... Will get one on soon. Anyone chaning brakes at 33K miles ? I would have expected the brakes to go for 50K miles, but the way I drive the car, I am actually surprised it lasted that long..

Like my Trix, but love the Bimmer more... Nothing against Toyota whatsoever.

herzogtum71 · October 2004

If you had a pre-2005 Volvo S40/V40 it wouldn't be unusual to need brake maintenance at 33K, but it's pretty unusual for most makes. The dealer serviced our '03 4WD Matrix in July with 17,691 miles on the odometer and wrote on the checklist:

Front Brake Pads Approximately 20% Worn
Rear Brake Pads/Shoes Approximately 5% Worn

nippononly · October 2004

I do think back very fondly on my Matrix! If only I hadn't rushed into that purchase quite so quickly, I would still have that car.

I like the new front end for '05, but I prefer the old taillights I had on mine. I very much like the change to the Toyota digital clock on the dash inside, as well as to the Toyota stereo. I don't know how it sounds compared to the old one, but it looks nicer and fits the look of the interior better.

If they keep this model around for a second gen and make the 2.4 with the factory supercharger available on the top trim level, I may yet be going back to Matrix in three or four years...

maryk · October 2004

Is there a place on the Toyota website to check dealer inventory? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.

oac · October 2004

Yeah, I agree with you on the tail-lights on the '05. I don't particularly care for the Alteeza look (fits better on the real Alteeza/IS). The 2.4L engine may not be too long in waiting for going into the Trix, seeing that it's already in the Scion Tc. But, I won't bet on it. In 3/4-years when you are ready to trade-out of the RSX there'll probably be plenty to choose from.

herz_: 17K miles and only 20% wear on front brakes of your Trix ? Geez!!! Obviously you don't live in a hilly town like we have here in San Diego. 33K miles is plenty long in-between changing brakes here in SD.

chezplan · October 2004

I love my 2003 Matrix and haven't had any problems with it, but in checking my transmission fluid, I discovered that the fluid was black. It has about 22,000 miles and normally the fluid is a reddish color. I had the 15,000 mile service done at the dealership and it includes a transmission fluid change. In looking at the service invoice, there is no listing for the transmission fluid under the parts. It lists the other parts such the engine oil and filter, but no transmission fluid. I suspect that the transmission oil change service was not done. When I called the Toyota dealership, the service manager said the transmission oil can get dirty and dark pretty quickly. I am skeptical and wanted to get advice from any of the Edmunds forum readers.

herzogtum71 · October 2004

I checked the invoice from the 15,000 service on our Matrix. The transmission fluid is in the itemized list. I'd say you're probably right that it wasn't changed. Otherwise, your dealer is telling you that it was indeed changed but they didn't charge you for it???

Nippon, the elevation in my town west of Boston ranges from about 150 feet to about 500 feet above sea level. Not flat, but also not like San Francisco. (I don't know how San Diego compares to San Fran.) I never had to have the brakes done on my '94 Corolla wagon, which I drove for 111,000+ miles over 10 years. But that had a standard transmission, and I am told brakes don't last as long with automatics. Even so, I am expecting them to last maybe 55K to 60K.

billmchale · October 2004

Are we talking getting the brakes replaced or 111,000 on the brake shoes? If the latter what were you doing, dragging your foot on the ground to stop the car

.

I think I went around 50,000 K before I replaced them on my VW.. but that was doing DC traffic.

--
Bill

nippononly · October 2004

was my Subaru Outback Sport, and when I sold it at 115K, it still had the original front brake pads, with 50% remaining per the mechanical inspection the buyer commissioned. How about that? And I live near San Francisco! A lot of those miles were highway though. And it was a manual - automatics definitely use brakes faster because the engine is still pushing the car even when you are braking (better compression braking in a manual too). It was also still on its original clutch, but that was near its replacement time.

So is there anyone here who is following Toyota's maintenance recommendation not to ever change the auto trans fluid (under normal driving conditions)? That is what I was on the road to doing, before I got impatient with the car and sold it for something new.

oac: Mazda5 will be here in a year - looks like a direct competitor to the Matrix with a sporty mission. Also the Suzuki Reno is here now along with the Spectra5, but I am not yet at the point where I would consider a Kia, or any of the rebadged-Daewoo Suzukis.

herzogtum71 · October 2004

I'm talking about driving the car for 111,200 miles and never doing anything to the brakes. Everything still original, and still functioning properly. That's one of the few things the dealer checked before accepting the car for a trade-in.

I know people who have driven Hondas who got 115,000 miles or more from the original brakes. But again these were standard transmissions.

capitano · October 2004

Same story with the brakes on my Pathfinder. It was a 5-speed and I didn't replace the pads until it had 120k+ on the odo and even then I changed the pads because I wanted to and not because of wear. Just another reason manny trannies are better than slushboxes.

oac · October 2004

My 1996 Nissan Maxima, auto (slushbox) lasted 6 years and 110K before I had to replace the brakes. In fact the starter died first @ 100K miles, and the brakes went next. I figured it was time to change, hence traded it in. That car was superb. I had so much fun and memories with it and still miss it. But certainly NOT the new Max design which, imho, is ugly.

oac · November 2004

Took the Matrix into the Toyota dealership for a brake pad replacement. And as always the case, the service writer called to inform me that my front pads had worn out and its gone metal-to-metal, damaging the rotors. The rear brakes are still good.

So what's the damage, I asked ?

New rotors = $106.50 ea (x 2 = $213)
New pads + labor = $179.99
Re-adjust rear brakes = $40
Total = $433 + tax (7.75%)

Can they simply machine the rotors ? No, they told me, they've got to go.

So, how much should I pay for replacing pads and rotors ? And can rotors be machined and re-used? My car has 33K miles....

lngtonge18 · November 2004

I'd request to see the rotors yourself. Did the squealing noise just start occuring signaling low pads or has it been going on for a long time? You can feel and definitely hear when you are grinding metal against metal. Did you get this sensation or hear it? As long as there was no pulsation from rotor warpage and the rotors feel smooth to the touch (minor lines and variation is ok, just no serious groove lines), I'd tell them to just put new pads on the car. Most shops try to get the owner to spring for new rotors when they aren't needed simply because they are very easy to replace on most cars and adds to their profit. In my personal opinion, unless you have been trying to use every last bit of brake pad material and continued driving it long after the wear sensor started squealing, the brake rotors are probably perfectly fine and can easily last another brake pad replacement. The rotors can be machined as long as it won't go below the minimum thickness to get rid of grooves, but some shops don't have the machine to do it or charge so much to use it that it's almost as expensive as getting new rotors.

As a reference, I was quite shocked when my brade pads wore out on my former 02 Mitsubishi Lancer at 27k. However, it was an automatic and driven mostly in city traffic. I drove it around for a week with the wear sensor makin noise at every stop. The pads were very thin, but the brake rotors weren't harmed at all. I replaced the brake pads on both sides in only 30 minutes at a total cost of $60. You might want to consider doing this job yourself if you have any mechanical knowledge. Once the wheels are off, there is only 1 or 2 bolts and a few clips holding the pads in place. It's very easy, plus you get the satisfaction of knowing for sure you weren't screwed out of money and what condition the parts are in down there (such as CV axle boot, ball joints, rotors).

P.S. By the way, I would take issue with them charging $40 to readjust your rear brakes. Drum and disk brakes are both self adjusting. It's preposterous they would try to charge you for something they probably don't even touch. I would definitely tell them to forget about the adjustment.

oac · November 2004

Many thanks for your detailed response. I am relieved to hear that they tried to stick me for additional $40 for the rear brakes *adjustment*. Which would tell me that their assertion that they could not machine the front rotors was more to do with their profit than my rotors being damaged.

The first time I heard any noise from the brakes, I figured the wear must be real low. My wife also drove it once and told me same. We then parked the car in the garage where it's been resting for the past 3 months (we had 2 other cars). So I couldn't have damaged the rotors that much (if at all) since we hadn't been driving the car since we noticed the noise. That's why I didn't believe the dealership when they told me the rotors needed to go. Unfortunately, I am not mechanically-inclined (wish it were computer-based which I can do with my eyes closed

), so I'll have to take the car to another shop and see what they tell me.

lngtonge18 · November 2004

Glad I could help. Too bad I wasn't nearby or I'd offer to do the brakes for you for $40

herzogtum71 · November 2004

Oac, I think you should take it to an independent garage and/or a Midas shop and see what they say about what needs to be done and how much they would charge.

i_luv_toyota · November 2004

The Toyota dealer is always the most expensive place to get work done.

I avoid them like the plague (good thing I could do my own work on my cars).

fixy · November 2004

My elderly parent loves the Matrix but can not use the center console shift due to a stroke. She would like a shift on the column or some satisfactory adjustment prior to purchase. Any suggestions?

deanc2000 · November 2004

Hello All,
I'm looking at a used light blue 2003 Matrix XR, with FWD, leather seats, automatic, cruise, subwoofer in the back (attached to the back of the rear seats), with 14K miles on it. The seller right now is asking 14.3K, but may go down to 13.5K.

Should I go for it? Thanks.

Dean.

nippononly · November 2004

the price would be about right in my area. Go for it if you like the car! Is it CPO at that price? If not, I would get them down a bit more. Bear in mind that it could already be almost three years old (they started selling them February '02), in which case the manufacturer's warranty could be about to expire.

el_bagador · December 2004

quick question: i've narrowed my purchase choices to a mazda3 hatch or trix xrs...from reading the mazda board, they seem to be pretty buggy, and i can't tell if they've been cleaned up yet. as far as the trix xrs goes--are they pretty solid? what kinds of common issues have come up with the '05's? any pointers would be appreciated...thanks!

billmchale · December 2004

Keep in mind that boards like these can make any car seem like a bucket of bolts only a few miles away from its next break down. People tend to be far more vocal about problems than about satisfaction. Indeed from what I understand the Mazda is actually somewhat above average overall in initial quality surveys.

That being said, the Matrix is several years into its current generation so it is likely that all the major and most of the minor issues have been ironed out by now.

oac · December 2004

So I finally got my brakes fixed this past week. Cost $186 OTD. This is from a non-Toyota shop.

My Toyota dealership gave me an estimate of about $450-ish to replace 2 front brake pads, 2 new front rotors, and to "service" the two rear drums.

Turned out when my car was hoisted up and the tires removed, it did not need new rotors afterall. A very slight, barely perceptible notch on the rotors were fixed by machining. Two new front pads, machining the front rotors and the rear drums, were all that were necessary. Cost me less than HALF of what the Toy dealership wanted.

Just glad I didn't get ripped off that badly. The moral to this story is to always get a second opinion before signing on the dotted line for that "repair" job.

nortsr1 · December 2004

John,

Everyone has their own personal opinion about a comfortable "driving position". Sometimes it is suggested that if you are unsure...rent a Matrix for a day and give it a good drive and a good workout. That way, you will know whether or not it is "comfortable for you". Go to the dealer and see if he will rent or "loan" you a Matrix for a day. That is the best way to determine if "YOU' and YOU ALONE" are satisfied. A lot of people in these forums always either rent or obtain a vehicle for a day before they purchase. YOU are the one that has to be satisfied...not someone else.Also check out the Pontiac Vibe forum.Perhaps there will be some info there.

Good Luck

nippononly · December 2004

TRAC Toyota dealers will rent you a Matrix for a day. Check out how far you have to sit from the wheel (peoples' number one complaint) - can you get your hands comfortable, and do you have to stretch out for every gear shift once you are in that comfortable position (which will guarantee you do not keep that comfortable position, because who wants to do aerobic stretches every time they need to shift?)? The other major complaint is the shortness of the seat cushion - do you feel a pinch point in your legs' circulation? If you feel any pressure at all, the seat will likely be uncomfortable for you after a couple of hours of driving. Can it be adjusted so you no longer feel the pressure?

I had mine for long enough to do a couple of 1000-mile trips in it, and I had no problem with the seat or the driving position whatsoever.

petl · December 2004

The seat cushion in the Matrix (2003) is actually longer than in the Camry (2002). The cushion is approx. 1 inch longer in the Matrix.

herzogtum71 · December 2004

In his automotive column in today's Boston Globe, author Royal Ford wrote this in response to a question about what gift someone might get for a young driver:

"We'll be extravagant here and assume you can afford a new car. Get the Toyota Matrix, with ABS, a four-cylinder engine, and all-wheel-drive.

If a Massachusetts dealer tells you that package is not available (and at well below $20,000), contact me.

This is a safe, cool-looking, reliable car."

billmchale · December 2004

Yeah the AWD matrix is probably a good choice for young drivers (And by this I mean drivers under 20). With the AWD, automatic transmission and slightly less HP than the standard Matrix it is going to minimize the ability of the young driver to do the stupid stuff that gets young drivers in trouble.

woawoa · December 2004

Hi everybody.

My wife has a 04 Matrix XR which recently having some rattle coming off the dashboard. Seems like the sounds coming from the drive side above the gauges. It gets worse when the weather is cold. We had brought it twice to a local dealer but so far they haven't been able to eliminate it. Does anybody have the same issue and what is the fix?

Thanks.

nortsr1 · December 2004

Go to the SUV forum and click on the RAV 4 topic...I believe they discussed tha same dash rattle problem and there was a TSB Dash rattle repair listed.It is one of the more recent entries.

Hope this helps, as it might pertain to your similar problem and give you something to show your Toyota service dept. mgr.

arktrooper2k · January 2005

Has anyone had experience towing 1500< lbs with an XRS 6-speed? All Matrix are rated as being able to do so. I'm considering the purchase of an XRS, but wondering about the high revs necessary to achieve sufficient torque with that engine, particularly on take-off. I don't see an issue when up to speed. I would be pulling a 1000 lb trailer/jet ski up a ramp on occasion, as well as a 4x8 trailer for occasional trips to Home Depot. Any feedback on actual experience with similar situations would be appreciated!

oac · January 2005

Towing with a Matrix ? Why not just buy a small p/u to do that ? Seems like a much better choice than a Matrix to me. I do have a Matrix and can not imagine it towing anything with the 130hp 4-banger engine. That engine labors going up any hill with an incline higher than 20deg. ! Towing with the buzzy 180hp motor will be a chore, imo.

steine13 · January 2005

".. labors going up any hill with an incline higher than 20deg"

That's ok, though, 'cuz there ain't no hills with 20 deg incline. 20 degrees is a ski slope.

I find the engine to have plenty of power (base, 5sp) and could see towing a small sailboat or something like that... but at 1000 lbs, things would start to be less fun...

-Mathias

KCRam · January 2005

That's ok, though, 'cuz there ain't no hills with 20 deg incline. 20 degrees is a ski slope.

Polite disagreement there. This is my Ram dually in front of my home. My handy protractor says about 15 degrees, and this is after the street has actually levelled slightly. Of course, I live in the mountains, so your mileage may vary

kcram

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