Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Toyota Matrix

1565759616264

Comments

  • badgerrrbadgerrr Member Posts: 6
    In case anyone is thinking of buying one of these critters right now, here's the price and model I just got today.

    Base Matrix (Manual tranny) (2 wheel drive)

    (optional equipment as defined by window sticker)
    All weather guard....$250
    cruise control......$250
    Power windows & locks...$980
    carpet mats......$88

    Total price to me, delivered, including Oregon plates,
    $16,291.00

    Be aware, I only wanted the rear window wiper option. But was stuck with buying this other stuff cause there isn't a lot to choose from. ( I positively HATE power windows!) Got stuck with Silver color when I wanted Red or White, also.

    Went thru an Auto buyer in Portland, and got the rig inside a week.

    Took her out and about today, and am proud to say; everything seems to be in order and working. So far, so good. :D
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    If it's any consolation, silver is the safest color vehicle to drive according to highway safety studies!
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    I was always under the impression that YELLOW was the safest and easiest to see.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Although silver it is the most popular it is actually the most dangerous colour for a vehicle. Very difficult for some to see. It seems to blend with the road and background. That's why DRL'S are beneficial.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    The article I read in the Boston Globe indicated that Silver was safest with brown, black, and green among the most dangerous. This Globe article may have been reporting on a study from New Zealand that is described on the following website:

    http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm366575.html

    I also found a link that, among other things, mentions a Swedish study claiming pink is the safest color for a vehicle and black is the most dangerous:

    http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/fascinating-facts/safe-vehicle-colours.html
  • drspongklongdrspongklong Member Posts: 48
    I was disappointed too with my Matrix. I was one of the earliest buyer of this car. Bought the 2003 base model in June 2002. I was happy in the beginning. It was my first new car. I was so excited until almost all the problems you mentioned happened to me. I am happy now that I have gotten rid of it. I traded it in with the new 2006 Mazda5. This car is almost exactly look like the Matrix but a little bit bigger, 6 seater (3 rows of 2), sliding rear doors, and handles way lot better. If you want to upgrade your Matrix, this is the perfect one.
  • uj53uj53 Member Posts: 4
    Can you give me a breakdown on your Matrix ?
    Price--tax---title--license ? Please
  • spark321spark321 Member Posts: 1
    Get rid of it now if you can before it costs you a ton of money.
    I have had similar problems with my 03 plus a whole host of others.
    I originally bought the car hoping to get great milage. The average with auto trans is 29mpg with a majority of highway miles. Ok so I'll deal with it it's not the mid 30's I was hoping for. First it comes time for tires. I find out these are a special low profile tire that only comes in high performance styles $150 a tire mounted and balanced. "Outch" this is a matirix not a porsche!
    I decide it's time to change the transmission fluid because it is getting dirty looking. I find out the trans. pan gasket/ filter is not available and the fluid is a special Toyota blend at $12 a quart. Again I'll deal with it.
    Now I am coming up on 90K and the check engine light comes on. I take it to Autozone and they tell me that the O2 sensor and the coolant sensor are bad. The O2 sensor is only available at the dealer For the modest price of $140 and autozone has the coolant sensor for only $50. At this time my brakes are starting to squeal telling me I need my second set of brake pads for a meer $50. When I go to install the pads I find the reason for the premature brake wear is the driver side caliper is rusted up another $140.
    So for $380 in parts total I think I have my car back in shape. Mind you this is more than the car payment. Five days later my check engine light comes back on. I have not had the chance to look at it again. I'm sure it'll cost me another $200.

    The car just lacks quality!!! The heater blows lukewarm in the winter and the air blows luke cold in the summer. The position control for the heat is just there for looks as when it is on floor it comes out of the vents and defroster almost as hard and likewise for the other positions.
    Rust is rediculous for a car this new. Around all four door handles there are rust stains and around the rear window there are numerous rust bubbles. I swear on a quiet night you can hear it rusting.

    VERY DISAPPOINTED II
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Won't get into specifics. However, I'm confident there are 2 sides to the information that was posted.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    Won't get into specifics. However, I'm confident there are 2 sides to the information that was posted. Good luck with your next vehicle.
  • las1las1 Member Posts: 1
    Hi...I wanted your opinion about my 2003 Toyota Matrix which I purchased in June 2002. I have just over 60K on it and I heard a tapping noise. At 60,500 mi I took it to toyota (after just completing a 60K servicing at another place - not Toyota dealer at 59,000 because the engine light came on) and they said it was my transmission, big time. Because of how unusual this problem was at this mileage, they offered to pay 1/2, but this had nothing to do with the warrantee being so close, because when it was out, it's OUT. They said it would cost $3100. How do they know that's what it will cost? I took it to an independent transmission specialist and he said it is hard to tell what the cost will be until they get in there to see what the extent of the problem is. If it costs less to repair, should I pay less? I am concerned they just came up with that number so that I would pay the bulk of the cost. Should I not expect Toyota to cover it fully? I could have them itemize and set a price to all their work, but how do I know it's legitimate? I feel vulnerable and taken advantage of. Do you have any recommendations? I really want to get rid of this car...I have had Honda's, Subarus, Acuras and VW's and none has caused me this type of problem at so low a mileage. Please advise.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    I would get to a Toyota dealer immediately, and have them see what's wrong. Then, if it is a transmission, call Toyota (not the dealer) and explain your situation. I bet they cover it. It is very unusual to have a transmission fail in a Toyota. They generally have the best reliability of any make. You are just unlucky!! Even the best sometimes have a problem.
  • path4path4 Member Posts: 24
    I was just about to complain about its poor MPG before I saw your post. Today, it got 27 mpg for a 300 miles highway trip. Admitted, there were a few miles of stop-and-go traffic and I averaged 78mph, but, 27mpg is not acceptable. Actually, its best observed MPG is 30mpg, so 27 is within normal variance, and is consistent with Spark321 number. Besides its poor mileage, it is very noisey and floaty on highway. It is simply a punishment to drive more than half an hour in this car. I haven't got any mechanical problems. Only the front driver side window can not be closed tighty, which makes a lot of annoying noise on highway. This noise however, is nothing compared with wind noise and engine nosie. I also concur with Spark321 as to what he said about the heater and AC.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    If you were AVERAGING 78 mph, 27 mpg sounds pretty good. Optimal gas mileage is supposed to be at something like 55-58 mph.
  • caveman70caveman70 Member Posts: 3
    1) Gas mileage: used to be 30ish in city and 35-38 freeway. Recently (post 100,000k hard miles) it had dropped 2-3mpg.
    2) Maintenance: replaced tires (85k) and a CV joint (106k)
    3) I expect at least another 100k miles.
    4) Performance: my base/manual will smoke a 2003 v6/automatic Mustang every time.
    5) After about 300 miles, the seats get somewhat uncomfortable.
    6) Absolutely comfortable. Driven in high winds, 100+ degree temps, -15 degree temps, high winds (hurricane force), jeep trails (did I mention hard miles?), heavy rains (hurricane again) and snowstorm (1-2"/hour in NE Ohio) and have had no problems controlling my 2003 Matrix.
  • caveman70caveman70 Member Posts: 3
    I always find it interesting that DRLs are considered a "safety" feature on cars ... and were called "suicide lights" on motorcycles when they came out.... Maybe my motorcycling background is why I _ALWAYS_ turn my headlights (and, therefore, taillights) on when driving.
  • path4path4 Member Posts: 24
    I see you are very easy to be pleased. I was comparing it with my friend's Buick LaSable, which got 25mpg locally, and another friend's Camery, which ran 35mpg on highway. Personaly, I got 32mpg from a rented Impala for a 1K miles' trip at an average speed of 85mph. All these cars are heavier, much more comfortable and accelerate much faster than the Matrix.

    -----------------
    If you were AVERAGING 78 mph, 27 mpg sounds pretty good. Optimal gas mileage is supposed to be at something like 55-58 mph.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    Most people say I'm quite the opposite of easy to please....

    My father has a Buick (Century, I believe) with V6 and also has reported some highway trips averaging 35 mpg when wind conditions were favorable (basically no stiff crosswinds). He drives 65-70. Keep in mind that the low-profile sedan has better aerodynamics than the SUV or station wagon shape, so fuel efficiency isn't reduced as much at higher speeds as with cars like the Matrix/Vibe.

    Today's paper had an article about new EPA testing that is supposed to better reflect real-world driving -- hard starts and stops, highway speeds greater than the current 60 mph, etc. Bottom line is that the EPA rating on most vehicles will decline, some being as much as 30 percent lower than today's ratings. Hybrids are supposed to take the biggest hit.
  • mkolmkol Member Posts: 6
    Hello,
    I finally purchased my Matrix XRS and I am looking for some accessories online(bumper protector, pet screen, wheel locks, etc). So far, I have found toyotapartspeople.com to be cheaper. Do you have any other recommendations? Also, they seem to have only up to 2005 model accessories, were there any changes at all at the 2006 model? I highly doubt it, excuse me for my ignorance. :)
    Thanks a lot.
  • wizzard3wizzard3 Member Posts: 1
    I have the same thing happening with my 2004 Matrix. Oil leakage, irritating squeak in the driver's seat and inconsistent "catch" in the starter. The mechanics looked at me like I was crazy when I complained.
    Somehow, it's nice to know I'm not alone.
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    on a hot day how did you find the airconditiong? i tried the scion xa out on a very hot day , and it was poor . i am hoping the matrix is alittle better .
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    i know the corolla without side air bags scores low , but at least you can get them . since you can only get side air bags in the 4 wheel drive , how does the regular matrix score? i thought if i would buy one it would be a good idea to get the side air bags , do you feel the regular matrix would be safe? or would it be like having the corolla with out the side air bags?
  • path4path4 Member Posts: 24
    Haven't you seen all the posts about the poor AC in Matrix ? It takes half an hour to cool down the cabin to 70F with the medium setting even the outside temp is 70. While under the same condition, a camery needs only 2-3 minutes. For local commute, I rarely use the AC. For a long trip on a nice day, I scroll down the window and turn the AC to maxium setting for ten minutes, and then close the window. For a long trip on a hot summer day, I just bear it for the first half an hour. In my opion, it is the worst AC. I have driven toyota echo and chev aveo. And yes, their AC's are better. I would have traded it in had my financial situation allowed me. It is my first new car, and I see a lot of first new car buyers including myself regreting on not spending a little bit more on a better car. The bottom line is that civic, corrola, matrix ..., they are not that cheaper if you can find a deal on accord or camery.
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    hi thanks no i did not see the information . i just started to look at thev matrix and just start researching about it . infact on a very hot day i tried the pt cruisner and that worked really fast and was very cold . i would like toget something alittle better on gas . i see that honda fit is coming out , not sure if that will be any better .do you think it is because the engine is just to small ? and that is why the air isn;t that good . thanks
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I am trying to figure out if the Matrix and Corolla have the same final drive ratio - It seems they have the same gear ratios. Can somebody tell me how many rpms a Matrix is turning at 60 mph in 5th gear (manual tranny of course).

    Thanks
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    i know that the matrix has problems with the AC being poor ,how about the corolla since it has the same engine?
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    i read the matrix has a starting problem , does anyone know does the corolla have the same problem? do they drive about the same ?
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    i think i can answer both of your questions; the AC problem can be fixed by properly adjusting the hot air/cold air blend door.

    the starting problem is confined to the matrix, since the vibe does not have a passive theft deterrent system.

    -Mathias
  • capitanocapitano Member Posts: 509
    Living in Miami, I run my AC pretty much every single day. It works well enough for me. I generally cruise around on recirc at level 2 though I will go to 3 and vent if it's been sitting in the sun.

    My wife's Civic always had decent air conditioning. After a ride in my Matrix one day she starting complaining about how weak her AC was. So since the car was a few years old I took it in to get AC checked. It came back within spec. No leaks, no refrigerant loss. Nada.
  • johnc19johnc19 Member Posts: 15
    Actually you can get side airbags in a Matrix that is not 4 wheel drive. Just over 1 year I ordered a 2005 front wheel drive Matrix XR 5-speed through my local dealer (Central Atlantic Region). My salesman first checked all dealers in the region for a vehicle that I liked (5-speed, ABS, and Side Airbags) and found none. It took approximately 7 weeks from the time my order was placed to receive the car. I've been completely satisfied in my first year with the car.

    If you buy a Matrix without side airbags, crash performance will likely be similar, (but not necessarily identical) to the Corolla, since the Matrix has a higher seating position and weighs slightly more.

    Another thing to consider when deciding between vehicles that may or may not have side airbags is resale. In 5 - 10 years when you might sell this vehicle, side airbags will probably be standard on every car sold. A car without side airbags would be harder to sell, or would sell at a reduced price.

    In my opinion, the initial extra cost of side airbags is worth it when you consider that they might save your life, or that your car's resale will be that much better. (I just wish that Toyota would make them standard equipment like Honda is now doing on all of their vehicles, or at least make them more readily available without having to custom order from the factory.)
  • path4path4 Member Posts: 24
    If you care about gas price, you shouldn't buy Matrix. A V4 Camery is more fuel efficient. It sounds very strange, but it is the absolute truth. I have never got above 30mpg, mostly 28 on a long highway trip. It is probably because of wind resistence and 1.8L engine being too little. All in all, Matrix is a vehicle poorly made by toyota.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Too bad there is no V4 in the Camry.
  • johnc19johnc19 Member Posts: 15
    As one other person pointed out, there is no V4 in the Camry. However, as a Matrix owner, I must disagree with your assertion that the Matrix is a "vehicle poorly made by Toyota." Since I purchased a 2005 XR 5-speed just over 1 year ago, the car has performed exactly as expected. It has needed nothing more than routine maintenance (oil changes and tire rotations) and gas mileage has been right in line with the EPA estimates of 36 highway and 30 city. The lowest mileage I have ever gotten was 31 MPG, and that was on the first tank from the dealer. Since then, fill-ups with mostly highway miles have consistently been 35 - 36 MPG, while fill-ups with a mix of highway and some local driving have averaged 33 MPG.

    I don't know whether or not you also own a Camry with which to compare the Matrix (I don't); but if you compare EPA mileage estimates for the Camry with the Matrix (both with 4 cylinders, 2WD, and automatic transmissions) you'll note that Camry estimates are 34 highway and 24 city; while the Matrix is estimated at 34 highway and 28 city. Mileage estimates for the 4WD Matrix are a bit lower at 31 highway and 26 city, while estimates for the XRS model, with the more powerful engine, are 32 highway and 25 city.

    Bottom-line, in most cases the Matrix will get better MPG (based on EPA estimates) than the Camry, with possible exceptions being the 4WD and XRS models of Matrix, neither of which represents a sizable percentage of sales. My own experience with a 2WD XR 5-speed Matrix suggests that Matrix MPG is very good and exactly what I should have expected.
  • johnc19johnc19 Member Posts: 15
    My 2005 Matrix XR 5-speed turns at about 2300 RPM at 60 MPH in 5th gear.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Thanks, I was trying to figure out if the gearing is the same as the Corolla, and it appears to be. The Corolla also turns 2,300 rpm at 60. I am trying to avoid a buzzy car, as the speed limit here is 75 and routing hwy speeds are 80+. 4,000 rpm gets old after several hours.
  • path4path4 Member Posts: 24
    I must congratulate on your lucky Matrix. I also read someone's matrix could get 38mpg on highway. Mine is 2004 base 2WD with 19K miles now. Today I got a pathetic 26.4mpg for a 350 miles highway only trip. I know I am not alone, so I am not sure why people are telling vastly different stories. But, I will ask the guys at toyota to take a look at it. Most likely, they will do nothing about it.

    My lowest mileage is 18mpg, for a normal local only driving.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Were all 350 miles on the highway? What speed were you going? How many psi in the tires? Were there hills? What transmission do you have? etc.
  • tommyg12tommyg12 Member Posts: 158
    Expect a short carryover '07 model year, with the following changes applying to a early release '08.

    ***Breaking News***

    2007 major model change.
    - 2.4L (2AZ-FE)
    2.4 Litre
    4-Cylinder
    16-Valve
    2AZ-FE specs
    VVT-i
    Sequential Multiport Electronic Fuel Injection
    Balance Shafts
    Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle [ULEV]
    Compression Ratio - 9.6:1
    Horsepower (kW) - 157 (119) @ 5700 rpm
    Torque (N.m) - 163 lb.ft. (221) @ 4000 rpm

    - available all wheel drive (new one) 5 speed tranny
    - solid hatch door (no more separate opening glass)
    - XRS will be discontinued

    These are confirmed for the major model change in 2007 either for the 2007 model or early release 2008 depending on how the new Woodstock plant launch goes.

    With the XRS being discontinued, this means that the GT Vibe is being cancelled. Also the AWD Vibe is being cancelled.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Sounds like I better hurry up and get one before they "improve" it with a thirstier and heavier engine.
  • herzogtum71herzogtum71 Member Posts: 470
    It's too bad they are discontinuing the separate opening glass on the hatch. The cargo area is really quite small. When I traveled with 2 teenagers it was packed to the brim. The separate glass opening made it easier to unload. If I opened the entire hatch, things tended to fall out before I was ready to catch them!
  • tommyg12tommyg12 Member Posts: 158
    I agree completely. It is very nice to have the choice of opening the glass or the entire hatch. Especially having a hatch button on the key fob.
  • mmyk72mmyk72 Member Posts: 67
    I'm seriously considering buying the Matrix, but not for 8-12 months. I'd like the XR auto, with anti-lock brakes.

    What's the difference between the newer models and the existing: Are there more engine power, change in mpg, any cosmetics improvements?

    I've read the compliants about weak heat/AC, and rattling...these problems didn't give me a warm and fussy feeling to just go out and get it.
  • path4path4 Member Posts: 24
    I highly recommand you to wait and test. The change from 1.8L to 2.4L may turn out to be a huge improvement. From my own experience, the AC is weak, but it will cool down the cabin. It just takes a longer time. You can hear the rattle at low speed, but once on highway, you cann't hear it anymore because it will be overpowered by other noises. Engine noise, wind noise and tire noise, plus a floaty ride are traits that unmistakenly put it in a decidely lower level below camry. I imagine the 2.4L engine will lower the engine noise and RPM significantly to improve comfort factor. Gas mileage may increase as well, as a small 1.8L engine and a big resistance factor are not a good match for fuel efficiency.
  • sgmsgm Member Posts: 23
    No significant changes between the 2005 and 2006.....we have one of each in red, as you described, but without antilock brakes.

    Gets heat within 3 or 4 blocks here in Dayton, OH even when it is in the teens and air is nice and cold in summer. No rattles or squeaks in first 6 months of ownership. Very well built.

    The only thing we can say even slightly negative is that economy is not as good as the EPA ratings of 28 city and 34 highway. Actually it may get 34 on pure highway, but we have not ran a full tank through doing nothing but highway. City and suburban we get about 26 average; sometimes a little more.

    As a comparison, my Miata is rated 23/29 mpg and in the same urban and suburban driving I average about 28-29.

    Very nice cars though. Never see many on the new car lots and never see them advertised on TV. What the dealers get, they seem to sell quickly.

    We bought both for invoice plus $50 title plus 7% tax. On the second one we bought I had the dealer order it in to coninside with the fall sale Toyota Corp. has around Thanksgiving. They put out $1000 coupons, so on the second one I got it $1000 under invoice.

    At least in my market (OHIO) Toyota has two of these $1000 coupon sales a year (at least the past few years).....one at Thanksgiving and one in the Spring.

    Steve
  • zombozombo Member Posts: 89
    If the fuel mileage is so bad in the Matrix,then why did Edmunds recently rate it no.10 in their top ten fuel efficient cars? I've had my 03 5 speed XR for 4 years now,never got below 30 mpg and usually average 33-34 in the warmer months and have gotten 36 on long highway trips.I think people buy it with the auto and/or all wheel drive configurations and somehow expect to get 5 speed two wheel drive gas mileage out of it with the AC on most of the time-never going to happen.Noisy engine? It's a sporty car with an engine that likes to rev and the sound is part of it's appeal.

    As for reliability I've had a DRL light sensor and the rearview mirror replaced under warranty and those are the only problems I've ever had with the car.I'd consider buying the new model,but it looks like Toyota is going to ruin it with a bigger engine and poor fuel economy like they did with the Celica replacement- the TC! I'm also disappointed to see that they're doing away with the rear window opening on the 07 ,as I use that most of the time,much more convenient than opening and closing the big hatch.
  • path4path4 Member Posts: 24
    I don't know why some people always assume others are stupid. This is not some hightech stuff and people do know what they are talking about. Mine is 04 base 2DW. I drive at 75-80 and occasionally 85. The reason I don't drive faster is because it is too noisey and floaty, although the highway here is almost empty at night. The 300 miles/oneway commute I take every week is straight,flat and not much above sea level. The mileage is about 26-29 regardless AC on or off from my one year's observation and unsatisfaction.

    I once rented a 04 Chev Impala in March and drove it more than 1K miles at a speed around 90mph and sometimes 100mph. It got 31mpg even with some local miles. I also enjoyed how quiet it was. I didn't have to increase the volume to listen to the radio. Inside my matrix, I have to double the volume.

    I did read people reported both 28 and 38 mpg for matrix from different websites, with the 28 ones claiming they drove like grandma and the 38 ones 10mph above speed limit. Maybe it is a quality control issue. But, all of my friends who have corrolas complained how noisey they are, and none liked the rev-happy sound. Seriously, my matrix changes gears at 6K rpm when I floor it, which I did less than 10 times as there was no fun doing that, but it is still too sluggish to be called sporty.

    My previous 10-years old, beaten-up, oil-leaking, tires-evened accord got 31 mpg at about 80mph. When I bought the matrix, I had a lot of hope to see an increase to 33 or 35 from what I read on different websites. I kept hopping after the break-in period, the second oil change, the 7.5K maintance, the 1.5 maintance, but it never happended, and I began to read more and more complaints about its poor gas mileage.

    I think negative reviews from experienced owners are more helpful for potential buyers. When I was doing research on Matrix, all I read was how wonderful it was, and none mentioned the exccesive noises on highway. I believe they do know their cars are noisey, but reluctant to say it. I can accept the poor gas mileage because it is not too bad after all. But, the noises are killing me on highway as I drive a lot on highway and have to turn the volume up to listen to the music. I was often surprised to realize that the music was at an ear-deafening level after I got off the highway and stopped at a stop sign. Having said that, I don't think I am a picky person, neither I am rich enough to be picky. However, from my own experience, I consider Camry, Accord, Tauras, Impala are comfortable cars. Matrix, Corrla, Civic are certainly not.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,818
    The reason the Matrix/Vibe twins only get 30mpg or so on the freeway is aerodynamics. These are tall cars with a lot of frontal area; there's a lot of drag.

    My wife can get 35 mpg in the car, I've never been over 30. I don't believe there's anything wrong, it's just physics at work. Drive 65-70 mph on level roads and with low winds and I think you'll see 35 mpg or so.

    "The Laws of Physics Are Strictly Enforced."
    -Mathias
  • zombozombo Member Posts: 89
    You're routinely driving at 75-85 and wonder why you're not getting better gas mileage in a relatively tall car and why the road noise is so loud? No lightweight economy car that I know of is going to be quiet at those speeds.Obviously you need a heavier,more streamlined car for that type of driving. A radar detector and a PBA card wouldn't hurt either!
  • paulie1paulie1 Member Posts: 2
    I'm about to purchase a new XR and would welcome comments on the optional JBL 6-disc, 7 speaker system: was it worth the extra dough? I'm thinking of going with the standard radio and adding an amp and better speakers.
  • indgomtrxindgomtrx Member Posts: 7
    I notice quite a few posts about the Matrix's aerodynamics. Is Cd of .32 that bad?
Sign In or Register to comment.