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Comments
Steve, Host
Bottom line, if you don't mind a bit of unreliability to suit your needs for "prestige" and an otherwise fun drive, I wouldn't completely dismiss the FL...I recommend doing what I did...lease it for as long as the warranty lasts...with problems like this, I wouldn't want to get stuck owning one of these things...resale values could be low after a couple of years.
Why on earth should I spend $30k on a 2 door, 2.5 liter British attempt at an independent suspension, unibody SUV? (Before you start crying that the SE3 costs only $27k, consider that you have to pump premium fuel, deal with the initial rush of snobs who want the latest cute SUV, and few if any incentives such as financing and cash back that you get with every American car manufacturer right now). What could I have for $30k, a down payment on a house, a year of my college tuition, or how about this, nicely equipped a Jeep Wranger Rubicon and have enough money for a killer stereo, a CB radio with enough power to warrant investigation by the FCC, a winch, and a WAAS enabled navigation system so I can always get back to my campsite in time to roast some marsh mellows.
Did I mention that a Rubicon is better in almost every criteria SUV's are defined by? Just look at the specs. Power - Wranger. Off-road capability - hands down Wrangler. Practicality/cargo space - Wrangler. Heritage - still Jeep (Land Rover is Ford and was BMW before that). Seems like it's Jeep hand down. Oh wait, I almost forgot, snob appeal - Land Rover. The only reason someone would want to buy this car is to say to their friends at the cocktail party "I drive a Land Rover." Not to say LR isn't capable of making a great car - the Defender 90, Series II, and Disco are proof - this is just not one of them.
I have an idea, I'm going to take my Leatherman tool, peel off the Land Rover oval off the front of the car, and put a nice, blue Ford oval. In the process, I will be dropping the price tag by $5000 and placing the car against the cars it should be competing against - 2 door, cute-utes priced at around $20k. As it stands, for $30,000, there are many more bigger, better, more powerful, more practical, and more capable SUV's out there, each one of them giving reason not to buy this car.
Seems like the logical comparison for the Freelander is the Liberty anyway. link
Steve, Host
Have had my FL since last August. Now that it is nearly threw an Alaska winter, thought I would post some thoughts.
First - This is a highly capable vehicle. My previous vehicle was a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8, and I can say without reservation that, when it counts, the FL takes the cake. The main reason seems to be the traction control. My Jeep had Selec-Trac, which cannot send power left/right between wheels. Once got stuck on a dirt road 15 miles outside of Talkeetna, and the two left side wheels just spun in the muck. No such problems with the FL. It has handled ice, snow, mud, rain, and hell of all kinds without any problem. Bravo!
Second, a lot of people on this board grouse about price. Yes, the HSE is expensive. But my S (with special financing offer) costs significantly LESS than a comparably equipped CRV or RAV4.
Reliability has been a minor issue. The thermostat had to be replaced - wouldn't warm up at highway speeds below ten degrees. Occasionally at colder temperatures, the Hill Descent warning light will come on. Turning the vehicle off then on has fixed the problem. Note that these repairs are relatively minor compared to the problems I had with my Jeep. Time will tell how reliable the car really is.
The engine is "reasonably" peppy. Certainly one area where the V8 was much better, but not an "apples to apples" comparison. The sport mode does well, but the gears seem to be spaced too far apart in the regular mode. Gas mileage, mostly in town, has been 16-18 mpg.
Finally, the one thing that really sold me on this vehicle was how solid it felt. Compared to the Jeep, CRV and RAV4, the FL feels like it was machined from a solid block of steel.
Would I recommend it? As long as reliability doesn't become any more of an issue, I certainly would.
Thanks for the report!
Steve, Host
Now if I may... I wouldn't like to say: Boooo-Ya
The used Range Rovers from the mid 90s and Discovery II's from the late 90s are really reasonably priced - anywhere from $8K for a used Disco II with some miles to $20K for a used 96 Range Rover. That seems very cheap compared to their original sticker prices! Should that raise red flags?
I guess what I'm asking is: How do you guys feel about the Freelander? Is it trouble-free? In a year or so, what will the resale value be? Mid teens? My initial thought is to buy a bigger Disco II or Range Rover - but if the Freelander is more trouble-free, that might be the way to go.....
I have a 2002 SE Freelander, fully loaded. I am getting rid of it. I have had more problems with it both in maint & service. Here are some things I have learned from LR:
1. If you buy the FL, you will be considered 2nd class by LR b/c you did not buy the RR or Disco.
2. If you move or have to use another dealership you WILL NOT get a loaner.
3. The A/C is poor & does not cool interior well, don't buy this car if you live in a desert climate!
4. Check your A/C coolan res., it may be cracked.
5. Brake lights are poorly designed
6. Ever 15-20k you will need entirely new front brakes (pads & rotors.. cost $500 - using HDC will make the service on this even sooner)
7. The drivers seat will squeak, the sunroof shade will rattle & the passenger door will rattle if you have the upgraded HK sound system.
8. Service bays are not open on the weekends
9. Radiator not well protected, small road hazard can damage it. New radiator cost: $800-$1000
It's a shame. I loved this car & had loved Land Rover. Now I can't get rid of the thing fast enough & will never own another LR again.
If you bought this car & love it.. good for you & I hope you keep loving it & don't have the problems I encountered. If you haven't bought it yet & are thinking about it.. well... I'd keep thinking.
Steve, Host
Thanks a bunch!
The rig drives rather well for a SUV of any type. Power is, well, adequate, but not unexpected.
Anyone out there performed or know of any successful engine mods for horsepower/torque increase?
Thanks much.
Walter Chan
BTW, this is to be sold, I just want to make it look decent.
Here's what I've done so far....
1) Factory stereo is terrible, but the speakers are good. Replace the head and you'll wake up the speakers.
2) Do your own maintenance if you can. They want $100 for an oil change. Do it yourself. Very easy.
My only compaint is the parts and service dept. I put a tow kit on mine and I called about 5 dealers for a quote on the parts and ended up with 5 different quotes (diff between high and low $100). Sounds ridiculous to me. I put it on myself with the electronics and once again saved $$$. Very easy. OK, I would avoid the dealer at all costs!
Towed 1500-2000 lbs about 700 miles Very smooth ride. In summary, great truck, although I have found parts/service to be quite questionable.
We test drove one and my wife is convinced, and I was pretty happy with it.
I realize that YMMV is always applicable, but given the price, which I think is great, am I nuts thinking this is a fine vehicle for the money? This one will come with maintainance includeed, ,so that means free oil changes every year....
Only problem is... it is white. I can live with white, but I wish it was an uglier color.
Not a bad deal. I bought my '02 S for $18k (but also upgraded to aftermarket leather which was better than factory). I could have spent $500 less and bought a '02 Ford Escape but I needed a real off-roader. $20k is a good deal for a SE. Could even get a better deal if they have the '04s on the lot.
I was all set to buy this white 2002 Freebie, but after test driving it, there were a few things I didn't like about it. They sound trivial but first off the entire dash was black. So in the summer it is going to be very hot, second, the seats were a solid tan leather that just looked, well, old. That plus the white...So we told them forget it.
Well, I get a call back the next day, and well, to make a long story short, I am getting a Silver 2003 FL SE with 7k miles on it for 22k. Beatiful light grey and charcoal interior.
I can't believe what a great deal I am getting, end of the quarter must be driving them. The blue book on this is 27K!
I am giving it to my wife for her birthday. I brought it home and put balloons on it with a big banner...she was thrilled.
It has these really cool looking rubber mats throughout, anyone know where good aftermarket parts are for these things? Preferably an online dealer?
LR is buying back mine for what I paid, no $ lost. (After all the problems I have had & the way my dealer has treated me, I did not want another LR). I am taking my $ and buying reliable! (Lexus or Acura!)
My advice would be to write them a clear & concise letter of what the problem is & the resoloution & get the BBB involved. I was set for arbitration but have now come to an agreement. Or, simply file as a lemon under your state's lemon law. LR will most likely settle before it has to go to court.
Please feel free to email me if you would like to see a copy of what I wrote to them. Good luck.
For what's it's worth, we seem to be having the minor version of the warning lights problem. They flick on and off radomly. Sometimes its the HDC light, sometimes seatbelt, sometimes brake. We mainly ignore it.
bigshotla: If you live in Orange County I might have a good place.PuuuuurfectAuto in HB (stupid name, but they are good). However, every place I went wanted the same or MORE than the dealer wanted to do the brakes. There aren't any aftermarket pads for the FL yet. And you will probably need new rotors, LR uses the crappy throw-away rotors that can't be shaved/turned. I had to do my brakes at only 20k. $575 was the deaer cost, & I got Puurfect auto to match that. DON'T IGNORE YOUR WARNING LIGHTS! At least get it into the dealer and document it (my personal advice and experience).
kbowen: Some Fl pads are defective - too big of metal in the pads. They eat into the rotors. LR will not do anything about this. You can argue till you are blue in the face. I had 1 dealer admit to the problem, but LRNA will not recognize it, no matter what I did I couldn't get it covered. Putting new brakes on the FL every 15-20k is considered "normal wear and tear." I filed a complaint with NHTSA over it. I still had to pay to get new brakes. Mine gave no prior warning either. Good luck!
http://www.dap-inc.com. The pads are made from Kevlar and are called Kevlar EBC's and apparently last longer than the OEM PADS. I did the brake job myself and noticed the rotors were also bad. I brought this up with Landrover and they could care less. I also recommend looking at this site http://www.formatc.org/freelander/brakes for information on how to change your own pads(it was pretty easy).
I'm not sure I've got the ability to change my own pads!! And, if we're under a lease, can I actually use those kevlar pads? Thank you so much for the advice. My husband found Land Rover mechanics that will do the brakes for under $500 - I'll post which one we use after we check it out.
Thanks!