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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
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  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Just wanted to pipe in and say we are still loving the SI. Thought about trading it for a 98 Maxima SE. It was already tough to imagine parting with the SI while we weren't looking at it. But once we saw it again we knew there was NO way we could part with it.

    Why were we considering it you ask ... because the Maxima was cheap and we normally like to have one car that we can trade and keep trading to satisfy our car bug. However I think our car fleet has become indispensable .. that's saying something for us.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    Actually considered trading the Si? Oh, my. I'm glad you're feeling better.

    ;~}
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Yeah, the idea/temporary insanity lasted all of 3 minutes. We would not have kept the Maxima, we would've just played with it until something better (and with a independent rear suspension) came along. But after picking the SI up from the paintless dent removal place we knew it wasn't going any where.
  • fokus5fokus5 Member Posts: 38
    Can anyone recommend a good repair/shop manual for the Si?
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    Who said the Focus was about the same price as the Si? Yes if you compare the Si to the SVT. But the SVT is simply higher perfoming vehicle than the Si. I agree that there might be slight refinement and reliability edge to the Si, but the SVT will out handle the Si easily. Just look at the 17" wheels with performance tires compared to the 15" on the Si, for example.
  • dudkadudka Member Posts: 451
    Helms manual is the best manual for any honda. they have the manul for the 2002-3 si's. it is pricey, about $70, but worth the money. I had one when I had the 99 civic and 01 CR-V. If you like to read then Haynes is better, but haynes lacks detailed exploded views of components.

    As far as SVT being superior, try driving the SVT with performance tires in the winter. At least my Si does not need separate winter tires to keep me on the road and not in the ditch. Besides, I have not seen anyone get SVT for $15K. 5 years down the road, I can sell my Si for more than any SVT will ever get in resale. given it is not recalled and the person has not died because the wheels came off while cornering.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Your point about the tires on your Si vs. those on the SVT is a bit of a red herring. All-seasons pretty much suck in all seasons, whereas "summer" tires give you far higher levels of grip when temperatures are warm.

    You'd get better overall performance from your Si with a dedicated set of winter tires and another set of "summer" tires. If I owned a Focus SVT, I'd buy four winter tires on separate rims and laugh at everyone trying to make it through the snow on their all-seasons (which is exactly what I do in my appropriately-tired Prelude). And since the SVT uses a larger (and stronger) bearing in the rear wheels, I wouldn't be very concerned about my wheels falling off.
  • jimc93sijimc93si Member Posts: 34
    Hi all.
    After digging around I finally made a table of power/weight ratios of some of the cars we've owned. I was literally shocked to find the 2002si h/b weighs 10 lbs MORE the the '90 Accord M/T we traded in last year (with 240K miles). That was the big 'family' car compared to my 93 civic. What I can't seem to find is how much hp the 2002 si has when it's not in vtec mode. The '90 Accord had a 125hp non-vtec and I figure the 02 hb probably runs about 130 hp if kept out of vtec. Granted, the Accord had a longer wheelbase, but still, that's alot of weight to throw around. Also, it's almost 400 lbs more than the 93 civic. I'm not complaining, just amazed at Honda's logic for a sporty car.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    The whole point of i-VTEC is that the Si's engine is always "in VTEC" by continually altering the intake cam phasing and timing. The "hot cam/cold cam" nature of the pre-i-VTEC engines has been reduced in an effort to increase low-end response.

    Trying to determine an engine's power output at anything other than its peak requires a dyno, and is pretty pointless unless you're trying to tune that output.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    jimc: The SI is a hefty car but I don't mind. It gives it a sturdy/substantial feeling that was not present in our 00 SI's. There's nothing wrong with the 00 SI either, just depends on your preference.

    We just logged another 800 miles on our SI and it performed admirably. Took a trip down the the Gulf of Mexico and average 28-30MPG with speeds in the 80-90 MPH range most of the time.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    If you are going to have to buya set of winter tires for the SVT the inverse could be said for the SI. If you decide you HAVE to clip the apexes of each corner you can buy some "summer" tires for the SI.
  • mdrivermdriver Member Posts: 385
    28-30mpg is not very good mileage, even at 80mph. The Civic's high revving 5th gear ensures that highway mileage will be no better than a full size Buick LeSabre.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    28-30 is very good considering the short gearing. The Ford Focus SVT can only manage 24/30 even with an extra gear. I am sure the gas mileage would have been better had I obeyed the 70MPH speed limits. However, any trip to Florida usually results in brief sprints to 100-110 and a usual cruising speed of 80 MPH.

    Besides, people whose primary focus is MPG would be better served with a Civic LX or even a Civic Hybrid.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    The best I have gotten was 27.5 mpg. that was driving on the higway at around 70mph. I would love to see 30 mpg on my calculations.

    Mdriver. Go bash the Si on the SVT focus board, not here. I dont go to your board and talk about your recalls and the fact that I have cruse control that actually works. BTW my car doesn't vibrate the side view mirors at idol.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    I'm going to ask that we continue this subject in our ongoing Ford Focus ZX3/SVT vs. Honda Civic Si discussion. Feel free to copy/paste your recent messages into that discussion. Further posts about the Focus SVT, in this area, will be subject to deletion.

    And let's get back to the subject of the Honda Civic Si / Sir. Thanks! ;-)

    Revka
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • fokus5fokus5 Member Posts: 38
    Picked up mine last night and am just getting started in an excruciating run-in process. This is requiring more patience and self-discipline than quitting smoking.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    That's what you'll be saying after the break in is over. Don't forget to keep an eye on the oil at every fill up. Ours just turned 12,000 miles. It seems to get better the more we drive it. It WILL redline in 5th at around 130. Easily too. It really needs another gear or a taller final drive.
  • fokus5fokus5 Member Posts: 38
    Has anyone taken the center console cover around the shift knob off?
    How do you go about doing so?
    How do i pop off the dummy switch cover on the right, opposite the hazard switch?

    Thanks all.
  • fokus5fokus5 Member Posts: 38
    Hey all...

    How can the head unit be removed and does anyone have a wiring diagram, or know where i can find one?
    Or better yet, is there another switched power lead somewhere more convenient?

    Thanks.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But I have seen a Sony headuit that would look sweet in that space. I'm contemplating a stereo swap. But the stock one seems pretty good for the music I listen to. Mostly techno and rave stuf.
  • fokus5fokus5 Member Posts: 38
    Hey all...

    How can the head unit be removed and does anyone have a wiring diagram, or know where i can find one?
    Or better yet, is there another switched power lead somewhere more convenient?

    Thanks.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    This is my first FWD with ABS ('02 Si), and I've been out on our rare slushy streets. Stopping and going has never been better!
  • 944s2944s2 Member Posts: 16
    Spoke on the phone today with a Seattle Eastside dealer that has a couple of leftover 2002 Si in stock. Best price they would give me was $16,900. They said they had the car advertised for $17,000 and think they can sell it for that. I'll probably go look in the next few days while the 1.9% financing is still active, but I was hoping for a price closer to $15,000. Maybe they'll drop it down some more in person :-)
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    If you like it and can't get a better price, try net shopping CA dealers. Amtrak'll take you to LA for less than $150.00.

    Better price, better selection, interesting trip - what's not to like?
  • hosimianhosimian Member Posts: 10
    Howdy. I'm new, but I've been reading posts in this forum for some time. My wife and I just bought a 2003 Civic Si yesterday. I was hoping to get it for $16-17k as it has been rumored, but no luck. We live in western PA and no dealers would go below invoice on the car (they will on the 2002, though, which you can get for less than $16k). I called all the dealers, I e-mailed the dealers, I used autobytel, I used Edmunds . . . nobody gave me an offer anywhere close to what I've heard.

    I am writing this just to warn anybody shopping for a 2003 Si in our area not to expect a price in the $16,000s. I wasted a good bit of time trying to convince dealers to sell the car for less, and folks, if they won't do it we can't force them.

    The good news is that the 2003 Si has a lease special that is excellent--check out Honda's website. Residual=52% for 48 months. Money Factor=.00092. We ended up getting one at invoice ($17,821) and with no money down (except first month, security deposit, and title fees--about $580), we're paying a little less than $220/month including tax. I am quite satisfied with this deal, even if we didn't get the car for $16k.

    But more bad news. Honda's site says the special lease deal is only good until 2/28. I don't know if they will extend it or not. Good luck to anyone hoping to get one, but be warned, it may take a bit of bargaining to get to this price. I only had one out of about ten dealers go this low, and I had to spend all day on the phone negotiating.

    I hope this is helpful to anyone looking for a 2003 Si. Thanks all for much helpful info on the cars and thanks Edmunds for providing such an excellent resource for all of us.

    Oh, by the way, I love the car. I can't imagine getting a better car for this price.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    I hope you love that new Si. I bought an '02 in December, and I think more of the car every day. Even then I couldn't have bettered your price on an '03.

    It sounds to me like you did the shopping job as well as it can done! My guess is that dealer cash has dried up and that Honda is putting money into financing to try to move cars. Just a guess.

    BTW, what color did you guys get?
  • si2002ownersi2002owner Member Posts: 26
    Well, I don't have much information, but I do tell you that all yo need is to get a harness car stereo dealers have, and you are done as for parts. DON'T LET THEM SELL YOU A "BODY KIT" as it does not need it. My Premiere (pioneer) stereo looks pretty good, matches console colors and sounds much-much better than Honda's radio.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    When they guy wired straight into the harness. I thought that was rather short sighted. I definitely would get the harness.
  • hosimianhosimian Member Posts: 10
    The new Si is black. Now we have three black cars in the driveway. We just don't learn our lesson, I guess. Sure, it will be dirty by tomorrow, but it sure looks nice when it's clean.

    There were a lot of blue ones available in our area, but we preferred silver or black, because, frankly, we're boring.

    I put the first 50 miles on the car today running errands, and I like it more with each mile. Smooth, fun, superb transmission and clutch, great, firm seats, lots of storage compartments.

    I'd like to have a seat height adjuster, some kind of a center arm rest, and a telescoping steering wheel, but even without these things its very comfortable.

    I wouldn't recommend the car to anyone over 6'1" (my height), though. I have only just enough head room.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    And it only gets better, LOL!

    Like you, I'd like more seat adjustment, a tiltable bottom like on the '99-'00; but 'tain't no big thing.

    Have you looked at the maintenance sched, yet? 120K miles on a set of plugs, LOL.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    My last 3 cars prior to the 02 SI were black. Then I bought a white SI. You would think that by making that decision I had learned my lesson about black cars. Not so, our 2003 Accord Coupe is black, although that was a decision based more on availability than desire.

    Your enjoyment of the SI will only increase with mileage. The engine will get smoother, transmission more buttery, and the durned little thing will endear itself to you more than you expect. The big windows are great for taking trips too.

    I do agree with you about the armrest and the seat adjusters but, as you said, it's comfortable even without them so I'm not complaining too loudly.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    and congrats on your new 2003 Civic Si! Thanks for sharing the details of your lease... and specials available in your area. Happy motoring!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons
  • doorstopdriverdoorstopdriver Member Posts: 20
    Hey all,
    I just recently purchased an 02 civic si. I'm currently a high school junior, and due to many favorable circumstances was able to purchase my own car. No more fighting with the parents over taking their camry ;-). I wanted a high quality car, so I thought getting a new one was way out of my league. That's why I like to think I got a real quality deal for the Si. A dealer around here in NJ had a left over 02 demo. It has 4000 miles on it, is in immaculate condition, and was only driven by the dealerships 62 year old manager. After talking them down in price substantially, I was able to purchase the car for 14,200 plus a whole slew of extras.
        Anyway, long story short I love the car. Seems so far to be everything i've wanted in a set of wheels. It not only turns a lot of heads (I loveeee the way my doorstop looks, as do my friends), performs well, but is amazingly comfortable. It also has the cargo space to hold my drumset when I go gigging with various music groups I'm in. But I'm sure everyone here already knows how great this car is, lol. I do have a couple questions.

    1. How high should I rev when not driving for pure power. As in what's the normal shifting rev? I had to shift my mom's 91 camry around 2k for fear the engine would explode ;-), but i'm thinking its different with this car. I have taken it up to 5k a couple times....wow. I've heard people are upset with the lack of power the car has, but it seems to perform well for me. Any comments on this?

    2. Will higher octane gas do any difference for the performance/mileage? I've read mixed opinions on this, so I'm wondering if regular is recommended but not the best choice. (I can't afford premium anyway tho.....)

    3. I've noticed an awful lot of road dirt being kicked up and "splashing" (for lack of a better word) on the sides of the doors and under the car. Even with music on I can hear the constant nicking. This is a load more than any other car I've driven and is most likely due to the lower nature of the car. Will splash guards help?

    4. radio......probably my only complaint thus far. I was looking forward to better sound. Any new units anyone would suggest for the future? The sound quality is really lacking on this stock unit.

    5. Finally, any tips or tricks anyone would like to share - I'd be very greatful.

    Like I said, I'm totally infatuated with my new Si. I've been reading a lot of negative comments directed to the new Si and positive ones for the Focus. Personally, I'd never buy a Ford due to the multitude of problems my friends have had with their fleets of mustangs. But to each his own I guess. Sorry about the long post, but I guess you gotta expect such from a newbie ;-). Any comments are greatly appreciated, thanks.
  • 944s2944s2 Member Posts: 16
    Congrats on your new car. I may pick one up tomorrow to use as a commuter to save miles on the Porsche and new A4. My local dealer has 2003s for $16,998 at 1.9%. Hard to beat that. Re: your questions:

    1) Rev the engine to whatever you like. It's already broken in. Typically, I rev my '92 Si to around 4000 or more for the 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd shifts to get reasonable acceleration. You can push these engines hard and they won't complain, and you can also lug them down below 2000 if you are just loafing along. Try to go by the feel of the engine. Apply too much throttle at low rpm and it will let you know it doesn't like it! Bursts to 6500 won't hurt a thing and in fact you could cruise at 5000 all day long since the piston speeds are still very low. Cars should be treated with respect and not abused, but they don't need to be babied.

    2) Stick with regular. Premium will do nothing for you with the compression ratio in this engine. That's one of the good things about the 160 HP version, it doesn't need high octane.

    3) I have splash guards on my '92 and like them, but don't expect a quiet ride in the rain... it's a Civic after all :-)

    4) Don't know anything about the radio, but other forum members have changed theirs. Shouldn't be hard.

    5) Misc. If you plan to keep the car a long time I'd recommend switching to synthetic oil eventually. I've used it in all my cars and the engines seem to last forever... the '92 has 173K and still runs strong.

    Have fun.

    Tom in Seattle
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    1. You shouldn't go above 4000RPM for the first thousand miles. But since you have already broken that personal rule of mine, try to take it easy for the next thousand miles or so. You will have plenty of time to rev the heck out of it. When we are just puttering around town we never go above 3500 RPM.

    2. Dont think the octane will make a huge difference. We use 89 octane but the car will run fine on 87.

    3. Splash guards are a must have. Not only do they protect the paint they make the car look better. Go to www.handa-accessories.com. They will be cheaper there than almost any other place. Get a set of directions and you might be able to install them yourself.

    4. The radio is fine to us for the type of music we listen to.

    5. Break it in gently, keep a VERY close eye on the oil level for the first 10,000 miles, and PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE put the car in gear in addition to applying the parking brake when you stop on a hill.
  • fokus5fokus5 Member Posts: 38
    Has anyone replaced their head unit? How do you remove the silver center panels?

    It looks like the bottom panel should come off first, but the fit seems tight and i don't want to leave nicks trying to pry it off from the bottom, just below the shift knob, if that isn't how you're supposed to do it. Crutchfield says they have no info on the car yet. I'd like to get a head start before the helms repair manual arrives in the mail.

    I removed all the badging as soon as I took delivery and everyone has been asking me all week whether my si is a hybrid or a concept vehicle.

    initial impressions:
    Just broke 500 miles after week 1. The motor, tranny and chassis are loosening up and settling in nicely. Haven't noticed any oil consumption yet, but am keeping my eyes on it with a quart of 5W20 in my hand - thanks for the advice.

    Love the sound of the motor - it's just about perfect - not OEM silent and not aftermarket obnoxious and annoying - just right. Same goes for the suspension tuning. Michelin mxv4 ires are definitely the car's weak link, but they encourage a gentle break-in.

    I drove a friend's car last night for a bit and the standard shifter placement feels unnatural now. I can't imagine why it took so long for the dash-mounted shifter to come along.

    I don't miss my old focus as much as I thought I would.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I had the same observation about the shifter after driving my 02 SI for a few weeks and then driving our 00 SI for a couple of days. The shifter in the 00 just felt low and the steering wheel in the 00 SI made me feel like I was driving a bus compared to the 02's.

    As for the oil, I took it easy and burned 3/4 of a quart in the first 3,000 miles. Although that was with 2 1000 mile round trip drives to Florida within a month. Haven't used any since.
  • doorstopdriverdoorstopdriver Member Posts: 20
    much thanks to all for the great tips. It's amazing how much I thoroughly enjoy driving this car. I think i'll go with the slash gaurds, thanks to anony for the price tip. And anony, the car has already been broken in, and very well to my knownledge. (I talked to the 62 year old dealer who had it as a demo car.) Should I still treat it easy with 4000 miles? Thanks also to Tom for the details on the engine, really really good to know. My mom's toyota was a completely different entity. One quick question. Noticed from many posts and in person driving today that highway speeds rev very high. The general onsensus is this is aight? And the sound is beautiful. Someone told me it purred today. Thank again, I'm going driving ;-).
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    The only bad thing about it is the fuel consumption compared to other Honda's. But considering the power output I don't think it's all that bad. It's makes such great noises at cruise though.

    By the way it'll redline fifth at about 130 mph still accelerating. It's making power all the way up there.
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    You got it right on the revs - roughly 3000 rpm at 60 mph, 4000 @ 80, 5000 @ 100, etc. This doesn't worry me. We've got an engine that is very similar to higher redlined engines in the RXS-S and S2000.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    fokus5, you might want to check Instructions on how to replace 02/03 Civic Si headunit. Good Luck.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    Is rivertown's post correct?

    "You got it right on the revs - roughly 3000 rpm at 60 mph, 4000 @ 80, 5000 @ 100, etc. This doesn't worry me. We've got an engine that is very similar to higher redlined engines in the RXS-S and S2000."

    B/c my PRO runs 4500 at 90, so it seems the 2 cars are geared similarly. I know the Civic's might make a better sound, but I remember you complaining how the ES felt bad at highway speeds. Was it just the noise in the ES you didn't like or what exactly?

    Dinu
  • rivertownrivertown Member Posts: 928
    For me, the heavier, torquier, smoother Si is a bunch less buzzy than the Pro.
    That hard to define quality they're calling 'refinement', the feeling of having reserve power even at 100 mph. Honestly, the Si feels solid at speed like my '89 5.0 'Stange.
    There is wind noise with the Si, but that's somehow different.
  • doorstopdriverdoorstopdriver Member Posts: 20
    thanks for the rev numbers. I was on the highway last night and tested out your numbers. That's almost exactly what I'm getting. I hear ya about the good quality of the engine, but my dad's telling me reving any engine that high will cause long term damage. Don't get me wrong, I love to accelerate fast, shift at higher revs, etc, but this car is going to be my daily commuter (school's the least of my traveling) for hopefully many years. My dad's also got me wondering about fuel consumption. Obviously fast accel is going to hurt the mpg, but is it a large difference? Regardless, i don't think highway driving could have been more fun last night.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Honda's have had high-revving engines since they started building cars. The engine is designed to rev that high and one of the things you almost never hear under normal circumstances is premature Honda engine failures.

    As for the gas mileage, the faster you go the lower your MPG will be on the highway. That's true with any car but probably a little more so due to the SI's high-rev nature. But on a recent trip with average speeds of 85-90 MPH we still average 30MPG. On a less agressive trip we got 30-33 MPG.
  • doorstopdriverdoorstopdriver Member Posts: 20
    thanks for the rev numbers. I was on the highway last night and tested out your numbers. That's almost exactly what I'm getting. I hear ya about the good quality of the engine, but my dad's telling me reving any engine that high will cause long term damage. Don't get me wrong, I love to accelerate fast, shift at higher revs, etc, but this car is going to be my daily commuter (school's the least of my traveling) for hopefully many years. My dad's also got me wondering about fuel consumption. Obviously fast accel is going to hurt the mpg, but is it a large difference? Regardless, i don't think highway driving could have been more fun last night.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Remeber I said that we regularly drove at those speeds though. As River said the difference is in the way the car behaves at those revs. The Protege at 4000 rpm sounded and felt like it was laboring the SI is just like 2000 rpm. I say it's the Vtec and balance shafts creating a more relaxed cruise but whatever it was the Pro didn't seem to like it. I have no problem running our Si for extended periods over 100 mph(over 5000 rpm) there's no way I'd feel as comfortable doing that in our Protege.

    So in a sentence it was the noise, excess vibration and the lack of reserve power that we didn't like about the Pro. Cause even my 93 EX coupe had reserve power at 100mph. It handled 115-120 easy mph with no strain on the engine. That's another comparison that didn't go over well in the Pro room.
  • dinu01dinu01 Member Posts: 2,586
    I see what you're saying.

    I agree with you: the PRO is not too smooth at 85mph+. I usually keep it at 80 or so on trips b/c:

    1. Noise!!!
    2. Don't wanna pay $$$ for tickets and higer insurance.

    The 93 Civic I had was good on the highway (smooth and not too noisy > better than the PRO at 80+mph), but not too good in the city.

    It seems the SiR is the ultimate package, combining the best of 2 worlds. And a 160hp in a car that small begs to be driven :)

    Too bad it costs so much! No discounts here.

    Dinu
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Its too easy to get you to see both sides of the coin. I'm glad this didn't get drawn out. At least you can see that we didn't hate our Pro. It didn't like our driving style is all. It was nice to look at and everything though.

    I agree my 93 EX would not have been fun in the city. Especially with the A/C on. Nothing really till over 2000rpm. But it LOVED the open road. Power, mileage, and comfort were excellent.

    We take our driving seriously though. We got rid of the EX-V6 Accord for the same reason. The tranny was fine after one of us drove it for a while. But if we drove it back-to-back the transmission had a brain fart. So we got rid of it. Nothing wrong with the car. Just didn't like to adjust to her more abrupt inputs and my more relaxed style.

    And by the way we do refer to the SI as the perfect Pro sometimes. We still have fond memories of our brief time with it.
This discussion has been closed.