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Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I owned a '99 Civic CX hatch (the stripper), and as I recall, the only other model (a DX) did not offer ABS -- I doubt Honda ever offered ABS on hatchbacks. The 2002 Si hatch may be a "first".
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Yes, ABS was available on the '92-'95 Si hatch. It was not standard equipment, which makes it difficult to find a car so equipped. Good luck in your search!
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Member Posts: 23
    As owner of 1992 civic hatchback, I still have my USA Civic hatchback-sedan sales brochure!
    1992 Civic Si hatchback has 'NA' for Anti-Lock Braking System.
    Only Civic EX Sedan had ABS as standard item.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The Si hatchback did offer ABS in
    '94. It was an option, though a rare one.
  • d7subd7sub Member Posts: 12
    Where are the new CIVIC SIs? Aren't they going on sale soon? I've asked the dealers all around here in North Jersey, and none of them knew how to answer. Has anyone in UK test driven the 2002 SI? Please comment your opinion of your SI experience.

    -davis.
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    first off: davis-- good question... apparently, the Si's have landed on our shores but haven't arrived at the dealerships yet?? Not sure why Honda hasn't announced a launch date.. you'd figure that might help sell this bugger.

    Now, what about this: the CTR will be coming here (it's been mentioned in C&D and Edmunds)... so isn't this going to just slow down sales of this Si??
    From what I've read, the Si that we are getting is slower (albeit more relaxed) than the previous one, and has shoddy tires. Whereas, the CTR would remedy both of these issues and has body molding that actually make this vehicle look good (a rareity)!! Plus, the UK press has given high praise to the CTR, especially at the price they introduced it at.
  • bobbyknightbobbyknight Member Posts: 121
    For the record, the '93 Civic coupe had ABS as an option package bundled with the passenger airbag and 6 speaker stereo. I assume it was also an option for the hatchback. I know the hatchback had 4 wheel discs though
  • swinga7swinga7 Member Posts: 45
    why dont emissions laws allow cars like the type r to be sold jdm spec in the U.S. but does allow for 10 cylinder monster suvs? now which car is the danger to the environment here? the type r's get way better gas mileage than any suv, they are smaller and not a danger to everyone else on the road, and you cant tell me that a 4 cylinder engine produces more exhaust gases than an suv beast. Whats wrong with this country we live in?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    The new CTR engine is quite clean, and may qualify as LEV here.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    A local Honda salesperson who took my number several months ago called today and said they would be getting an Si "sometime this month - are you interested?". He then said it was going to be expensive - "$4K over sticker". I laughed at him, and said "Good luck - I'll never pay over list for any Civic". Car salesmen are the worst...

    swinga7 -- darn good question.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    maybe at 4K over sticker they'd throw in a decent set of tires? ;-)
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Decent tires and wheels would be a start, but what I'd really like to see are car salespeople (and sales managers - let's give credit where credit's due) who aren't greedy leeches, interested only in hitting home runs off everyone coming onto their lots.
  • tommyp13tommyp13 Member Posts: 146
    Just wait until the stories start to come out about what BMW is going to get on new Minis as they slowly trickle in. Any markup on the new Si is going to pale by comparison.
    Not to defend dealers, but if people are going to have to have the new thing, then dealers are more than justified in fleecing them. You can't protect idiots from themselves. There's always Saturn... (now, that's a scary thought!)
  • d7subd7sub Member Posts: 12
    I was that close of buying an WRX at almost list price. Suby dealers are quite firm about WRX. I'm happy I didn't sign on the dotted line. I'm now looking into VW. I love Civics Si. Currently have a Civic '96 now. But I don't think I am those who would buy the same brand twice. I'd say VW just seem to have re-occurring problems in which Honda are not familiar with. I will have to take this risk though. hope luck will be on my side.
    -davis
  • shov6shov6 Member Posts: 177
    I was quoted a price a thousand dollars below sticker at a local Subaru dealership... And I wasn't even really looking to buy a WRX, I just wanted to drive it to see what all the fuss was about. What a fabulous car, though! I drove a 6-cyl GTI back-to-back with a WRX, and in terms of performance at least, the WRX has a clear advantage. I don't know why you are "happy you didn't sign on the dotted line." Look for a better price.

    Not that either of these cars are even in the same category, performance-wise, as the Si. Nice as it is, the Si is totally outgunned.

    -SHOV6
  • chem123chem123 Member Posts: 272
    The emissions aren't always the cause of use not getting "the good stuff." A lot of it depends on crash test results, US safety standards, carmakers who are scared of interfering with other car lines, and companies that don't see viable profit in bringing over performance-oriented cars (thank you general American car-buying public).
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    It appeared on vtec.net today in the news/rumor section.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    I think that Honda has priced this car about 1K too much. The sales man at the car show was saying that there will be a 4-5K premium above MSRP. OUCH! For that type of bread a loaded GTI, SVTFocus, GT-S, or even the almighty WRX could be had.
    Then again wait a few months and they could be had for 2-3% above invoice.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Even at $19K, I'm starting to blink. When the local sales people started quoting $4K over MSRP, I had the best laugh I've had in months. For another thousand or so, I could drive down the freeway and get a WRX -- my local Subaru dealer has 18 in stock. I'm sure the Si will be a neat little car, but it is certainly not a $22K car by a long shot!
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    it's a $19K car judging by most of the reviews I've seen.
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    considering that Honda expects that most buyers will swap out the wheels & tires, they really should have priced it around $17.5-$18K.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Several sources have said the Civic Type R will make it stateside before too much longer, so I'll just wait, thanks :-)
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    but if the Si starts at $19K, what would the CTR run? Much higher and you hit the magic "WRX" barrer.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    ...but at least the CTR may offer something decent for the asking price. Man, just imagine the dealer greed-fest when/if the CTR comes here :)
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Member Posts: 23
    I like what Nissan has to offer, Sentra Spec V... a 2.5 liter four cylinder. http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/nissan/sentra/serspecv4drsedan25l4cyl6m/prices.html
     
    175 hp and 180 lb-ft of torque, on 87 octane.
    6-speed manual
    helical limited slip differential
    215/45-17 tires
    180 watt 7 speaker AM/FM CD

    all for $16,536 including destination.
    now if only they'd give me credit for taking off the boy racer wings.
    I've been begging for Honda to put a strong 2 liter motor in the '92 model Civic HB but looks like I'll be going back to Datsun/Nissan.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    I "was" interested in this car till I test drove one.
    1. The interior is crap. The car had 16 miles on it, I close the door(passenger, as I cant drive it off the lot, the sales man has to) and the whole arm rest comes off in my hand. I show the sales man and hes like, "well so much for dealer prep! WTF???
    2. The car was driving all wrong. My guess is it needed an alignment reall bad! really, really bad.
    3. The 6200 red line. The engine is just getting going by 5k, then as the power swells, smile on my face, WHAM! WHAM! WHAM!, rev limiter. I'm like WTF!?! this car sucks! It really does.
    I knew I would be very disapointed if I spent one penny on this car.
    Thats all, Happy Motoring.
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Member Posts: 23
    compare Civic Si to Spec V or RSX
    TMV $19k for Civic Si, $16k for Spec V, $19.5k for RSX
    Civic Si 160hp@6500rpm, 132lb-ft@5000rpm
    Spec V 175hp@6000rpm, 180lb-ft@4000rpm
    RSX 160hp@6500rpm, 141lb-ft@4000rpm
    curb weight:
    Civic Si 2744 lbs
    Spec V 2743 lbs
    RSX 2694 lbs
    0-60: 7.9 sec Si, 7.5 sec Spec V
    might as well get the RSX if you love Honda so much!
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    As with all cars, quoting specs only gets you so far. I'm not a fan of Honda (especially not their dealers), but keep in mind you don't drive a spec sheet - you drive the car. A particular car can appear on paper to have all "the right stuff", then turn out to be not very rewarding to drive. I suspect the MINI Cooper will be a good example of this. People are already whining that it is underpowered, but I suspect it will turn out to be a hoot to drive.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    I am not sure where you get that I love Honda. In fact I have never owned a Honda. I am just keeping an open mind on my next vehicle purchase.
    I plan on keeping my car for "the life of the car" meaning I dont want a car that will fall apart after 5 years.
    I am not all about speed. The handling and "fun" factor are a major parts of my decision.
    The new Si just might fullfill my wants.
    Creature comforts are also something I am looking for, as this is my daily driver.
    The only thing that the Si has against it, IMHO, is the "boy racer" Hon-duh following which I dont want to ba associated with.
    So, thats it and thanks for reading!
  • civicwcivicw Member Posts: 135
    The March issue of Motor Trend (if I remember right) said that Honda was going to start importing the Civic 5 door late this year or early next year. Has anyone seen any info to confirm that?
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Member Posts: 23
    I'm one of loyal Honda followers, my Civic HB has 115k miles and I've owned it since new.
    IMHO Honda has become too expensive and the competition has caught up with good products for my hard earned $'s.
    I was one of the few, hoping for $15k~16k MSRP for a Civic Si HB.
  • stragerstrager Member Posts: 308
    Why else would they price the Si with side airbags for just $750 less than a better equipped RSX? The RSX is already being discounted below MSRP.

    I suspect that Honda will kill the Si in 2004, blaming it on poor sales.
  • carstuff3carstuff3 Member Posts: 11
    I am a Honda fan. Here is my Honda/Acura history, (all purchased new) 86 CRX Si, 86 Integra, 88 Prelude Si, 90 Civic HB Base, 96 Civic HX, 01 Civic EX Coupe. My favorite of them all was the 90 Civic HB. This was a very basic practical car that cost me next to nothing. I do not understand why the new Si has to be so much $$. For the price of the new Civic Si, I see no reason not to get the RSX with a longer warranty and 16" wheels etc... Perhaps the new Accord will come in a wagon this fall. Nah, that would be to practical for Honda. I still love the cars and will continue to buy them, but I guess that is what Honda is counting on. Maybe the Si's will sell near invoice? That might work for me.
  • bsme1991bsme1991 Member Posts: 23
    Toronto - Honda Canada announced yesterday that the all-new, European built 2002 Honda Civic SiR three-door will be sold in Canada with the manufacturer's suggested retail price of $25,500.

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020315-2.htm

    That's $16,106 US dollars!!
    Why do we have to pony up $3k more?

    My Hondas: '85 Civic S, '89 Prelude Si, and finally '92 Civic CX... my favorite? the Prelude of course.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Dealers here in Houston are still talking $3K-$4K OVER MSRP for their Si's. I say they're crazy. Not only can you get an RSX for that kind of money, or a WRX for just a bit more, but I've looked at one or two clean E36 M3s that cost about the same (thanks to the Enron crash). Hello?!? M3 or Civic Si... gosh, what a tough choice ;-)
  • dasteph94dasteph94 Member Posts: 20
    I agree the new hatchback is way over priced--and if the dealers think people will pay $$k over MSRP they have really gone loopy. I told one dealer after a test drive I can buy a Golf diesel
    hatchback that gets 49 mpg for $4k less than the
    Civic and guess what? He said, "Oh, we can work
    out a deal>"
    Don't forget that as a consumer you must never go into a Honda dealership acting desperate as in "i must get this car or die" or they will clean your wallet out!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I would love to see Si version of the Civic 5-door in America.
    Side/Rear
    Front Profile
  • civicwcivicw Member Posts: 135
    I would be happy even with just the regular version of the Civic 5-door. This is an incredibly roomy car for its size(I've sat in one during a visit to Japan). Perhaps Honda is afraid it might take some sales away from the CR-V, or maybe even the Accord. I've read Tom Elliott of Honda saying that they don't like to sell a car unless it's high volume. So why are they selling the overpriced Si? The 5 door would be a really big hit and a high volume car (at least 50K sales), IMO.

    I'm speculating they will wait for the 5 door hatch market to be firmly established in the US before introducing it in the Summer of '03(unless they introduce it at the show this month in NY). Another reason for delaying it could be that they have the Pilot, Model X, new Accord, Civic hybrid and Si all out this year. Too much excitement for the dealer?
  • qddaveqddave Member Posts: 164
    bsme1991,
    If you look at almost any vehicle in Canada and convert it's MSRP to US funds, it'll be a deal every time. It's because of the less than desireable exchange rate. Allow me to stress this, it is not only Honda. For example, a 2002 Protege5 with air, sunroof, ABS, 5 spd lists at about $21,900 before taxes and such. Convert that to US funds ($1 CDN = $1.55US approx.) gives a price of $14,130.
  • shov6shov6 Member Posts: 177
    ...but Honda has announced that the Si will sticker for 19 large, $19,250 with side airbags. This is from Caranddriver.com, dated today, though this could have been announced earlier.

    -SHOV6
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    how much Honda will try to sell the CTR for? Probably close the price of the RSX-S. I think Honda is going to regret pricing this car at this level... I don't know many people that want to be tooling around in a $23K civic!
    I had a '99 Si, which I bought for $16.5K (invoice was $16.1K), but moving it into the $20K+ range is questionable.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    CTR sell for about $20-21K, and it might be a car worth the price, even if one thinks it is just a Civic or not. The car sells with a surprisingly low MSRP in Europe, barely more than what is Civic EX coupe here in USA. Also, CTR has a curb weight of about 2618 lb. (1190 kg), which is 135 lb. less than the Si. European spec CTR comes with 197 HP/145 lb.-ft engine, and Japanese spec gets 215 HP/149 lb.-ft.

    IMO, Honda should have brought Si/SiR with lower content for a lower price tag, devoid of several things that people will rather appreciate as options (moonroof, ABS) or wouldn't appreciate (electric steering, electronic brake distribution). Absence of those things could have brought down the curb weight to under 2700 lb. as well.
    With $19K MSRP, I'm expecting the invoice to be about $17.2K, which is not bad for the car, if that is what one would pay for it, but only if they tend to sit at dealers lot for longer than expected.
  • tgozdalskitgozdalski Member Posts: 5
    The only reason, IMHO, to pick Civic Si over base Acura RSX would be space for one more person.
    Base RSX is much more car for almost the same amount.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    There are other differences, these are totally different body styles! They have different gearing ratios. Electric steering/EBD

    I only wish that SI had two trims like lx/ex civic
    Without Sunroof etc but then it wouldn't have been that cost effective.

    Honda would not have trouble selling 15,000 Sis, it means only 15 Sis per dealer.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Honda should have left 'exotic' features for the RSX, and gone with a lower price, less equipped Si. But then, they do not plan to mass market the car, and may want to sell it with minimum changes to whatever they sell in Europe.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    I really liked it. (Parking lot cars start flashing headlights & sounding off horns when Si starts & comes out of the parking lot)
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    I am sure thes new two cars whould have a 'halo' effect on the rest of the Civic line. Specially 5 speed/auto EX coupe may get some help.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    Previously Civic Hatchback though a slow saler got many buyers in the showroom looking for low prices & ended up buying coupe/sedan. I hope Honda keeps DX trim on the Accord just for that sake. Sometimes it also helps to sale well equipped certified used cars on the lot.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    I'm still scratching my head over the fact that the Si gets a balance shaft and the RSX doesn't.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Actually, Si gets a lot of things that RSX doesn't (electronic brake distribution is one of them). The same is true between JDM Civic Type-R and JDM Integra Type-R. But then, CTR is heavier than ITR (2625 lb. versus 2574 lb.)
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