Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

sunilb · May 2002

So, have you test driven it? From your other post in the CTR-forum, I had the impression that you have not yet done so. Just curious.

Anyhow, I think as much as all of us want to like this car... it's impossible since Honda pretty much neutered everything out of it.

I think it's also interesting that NO ONE has stepped up to the plate to defend this vehicle. To me this would indicate that whoever is buying this vehicle is neither an enthusiast nor an informed car-buyer (ie, a different population than the people at Edmund's Town Hall).

bobbyknight · May 2002

I have driven the car twice (silver and white) and think that it is a very impressive vehicle, although lacking in excitement. I currently have a 93 EX coupe 5-speed, which I have had since '97 and adore, but am ready for a new vehicle since I will be graduating soon.

Going into the test drive knowing I would be unimpressed, I was expecting the worst. I was, however, pleasantly suprised by the car's refinement, quality, and fun to drive nature. I know, the car will get toasted by its competitors handling at the limit, but there will be very few times I will reach the limit of a car on public roads, and I doubt neither will anyone else. Overall, the car was quick on its feet, very fun to drive, and the ride was not punishing. I drove a base RSX right before the Si, and did notice that the RSX felt it was a little stiffer, but that could be attributed to the Si higher center of gravity.

I like the looks, but will be the first to admit that when a Type R body kit becomes available, I will be the first one to have it. The wheels have to go, the 15" alloys look like hubcaps. I do not want a car that looks like it came from the "Fast and the Furious", which would be the only drawback of the body kit (which as just been introduced in Europe for all models, check out http://beta.vtec.net for details.)

I WILL not buy a Sentra SE-R(looks too boyish and unrefined) or Golf 1.8T(handles like a boat) or a Focus SVT (don't want to have it in the shop 3 days a week). So in this class that leaves the Civic and RSX. Can's see spending the same money for the Civic and getting lesser waranty and less content for the same price.

I am also considering the Passat 1.8T and the WRX since they are also in my price range(although a little more than the Si and RSX).

riopelle · May 2002

If the Si had been released last summer, I would have bought one and slapped on 16"s or 17"s. As things were, my choices came to:

1. Mazda P5 - bought it, absolutely love it, still want more hp.
2. RSX - simply sublime car but Acura wouldn't budge on MSRP as it was just out. $5K more than the P5, with almost double the yearly insurance ($1,000 vs $1,900) the RSX wasn't that much better than the P5 in my opinion to justify the cost.
3. Focus ZX3 - handles like a dream, but I wanted a car, not an intimate relationship with a mechanic. Couldn't trust it, sorry.

The Si is extremely comfortable, composed, quick, reliable, versatile yet sporty transportation. It's not extreme, and I think that's people's issue with it. I love the dash-mounted stick and the wonderful steering wheel. Love it in white, wish it came in red.

If the Si came with 16"s, a 6-speed, larger anti-roll bars and the side-mounted airbags for no more than $19K even, it would be the real deal. I think Honda does not have standard 16"s solely because of the RSX. The base RSX really should be $20K, the Si $18K, but you pay for Honda's reputation for quality.

Honda needs to bring over the 5-door immediately. Focus has a 4-car lineup, why not Civic? Anyway, I may be back with Honda next time, but Mazda has really impressed me to date.

seminole_kev · May 2002

I know it's nitpicky, but the Focus lineup has 5 models (in the U.S.) 3-door, 5-door, sedan, wagon and the SVT version. I think at least Honda needs to sell the 5-door Civic hatch here. I'd like to see them offer a non-Si 3-door here also, but understand there being a conflict with the Civic coupe.

riopelle · May 2002

By 4-car lineup I meant 4 body styles, the 3-door, 4-door, 5-door, and wagon. The SVT could be constued as a trim level, or a seperate vehicle all together as it is a niche car, but it is the 3-door. Anyway, we're just splittin' hairs.

bobbyknight · May 2002

Glad to hear you enjoy your P5. When I test drove one, I was desperately seeking a twisty road because the car was so much fun to drive. The best steering I have ever encountered in any car I have driven. Mad fun!

The only problem I had was the engine/transmission combo. Engine was coarse and didn't rev too easily. Transmission was notchy and had long throws. I would consider the new Mazdaspeed3 but hate the orange and would not consider a black car.

riopelle · May 2002

Yeah, my single biggest qualm about the P5 was initially the transmission, especially after testing the RSX. (Note to self: never compare anyone else's tranny to a Honda's) Still, the P5's tranny has improved immensely with break-in, there's truly no comparison to how it was which is a very pleasant surprise. The rod linkage now makes for very smooth, linear shifts, a bit long but quite nice.

I have heard similar complaints about the engine but it flies to 6K rpm for me (regularly the way I drive) and sounds great. Again this may be a break-in issue for Mazdas, I have never owned one before. It is a little hp deficient but has plenty of torque.

Enjoy the RSX or Si or whatever you get. If you're still on the market you may wish to reconsider the P5, it is excellent and I promise just gets better after 5K miles.

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

riopelle-

I'm on the verge of purchasing a new car, probably a Protege5. I sure wish Honda would bring the 5 door Civic stateside. That would be a great decision for me to have to make - P5 or Civic 5-door.

-jim

riopelle · May 2002

Jim,

The P5 has been flawless for me for 10 mos now. After buying two new VWs, I finally have a new car that isn't in the shop for warranty repairs monthly. It also is a distinctive, fun, roomy car that won't break the bank and handles like few cars at any price. And my friends love the back seat!!!

If you want a 3 door, go Si, if you want a 5 door, go P5. Until Honda realizes it's missing the boat, I guess.

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

C5 please!

riopelle · May 2002

I expect Honda will watch the Matrix and P5 sales for a few years before making a move. Think how long it took for them to bring out the Pilot! "Hmmm, big SUV sales seem stable, maybe we should make one?" Cautious, thy name is Honda.

And the 2.0l would be perfect for a "C5" as you dubbed it, I wouldn't be surprised if it spread over the Civic line in the next few years. Great engine.

You've got the '93 Si? I almost bought that car back in 93 to replace the '83 Accord that got me through college, but opted for a '93 GTI instead, mainly for headroom issues believe it or not. Fun car that Si...wish I had gotten it instead of the VW. VW as poor quality and even worse customer service, as I discovered. They are Honda's opposite.

ranald · May 2002

It's not that bad. Honda already has a car to compete with the Matrix- in fact it's a very successful JDM model that apparently inspired the Matrix (yes, the Matrix is a copycat car). It's called the Stream.

The 2 main problems are that Honda is short of manufacturing capacity, and they're risk-averse. Put the 2 together, and you get that Honda will only allocate manufacturing capacity to a model that they *know* will sell- thus no USDM Stream, at least not yet.

Toyota is taking a bit of a risk bringing the Matrix to the US, but they can afford to take risks, they're swollen with cash.

If the Matrix does well, I'm sure we'll see a 5-door Civic-platform Honda people mover.

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

I love my Si, but I've nearly driven it to death. Hard to do in a Honda, but I'm dedicated!

It's been a great car for all the classic Honda reasons.

Funny you mention the GTI, as I'm considering one along with the P5. But I dunno, VW reliability scares me a bit and the car costs a bit more than the P5. Oh, but that turbo motor, traction control and Gemanic goodness! It's a tempting vehicle.

The P5's a safer bet, easily affordable and attractive in its own way. Plus it has four doors. Above all, people seem to love their P5's as much as Hondaphiles love their Si's. That says a lot.

But I haven't test driven anything too extensively yet, so we'll see who comes out on top after I kick the tires.

-jim

bobbyknight · May 2002

I suggest you drive the Golf, you WILL be dissappointed. The car has gobs of power, but torque steer will have its way as soon as you hit the gas. Also plan on purchasing an aftermarket suspension kit since the car rolls like a buick. Not bad, but the power and nice interior are all its got.

Drive the P5, and you will then understand what a fun car is!

I'll be sad when I get rid of my '93 too

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

The '93 Civic Si, EX and Del Sol were all great cars. I'm going to miss mine when it goes, that's for sure. The P5 seems to be my best bet to continue having the same balance of fun and practicality while enjoying two extra doors.

I have promised myself that I'll drive the Golf, GTI, Civic Si, and possibly a Matrix before I dismiss them all and buy a P5!

-jim

civicw · May 2002

Having checked out in person both Stream and the Civic 5-door, I find the Stream not so attractive for the following reasons:
1. The Stream interior seemed more cramped, less airy than the Civic 5-door.
2. The 2nd row in the Stream has significantly less leg room than the 5 door Civic.
3. The last row in the Stream, with 2 seats for children is less likely to be used. In effect, I found the Stream to be more of a 4 seater than a 7 seater(because the center seat in the middle row is not that great).
4. The Stream has a hint of minivan styling, even though it is lower in height than a minivan.

Nevertheless, I think both the Civic 5 door and the Stream would have a market in the US. It just depends on what volume Honda is shooting for, I think the Civic 5-door would sell a lot more than the Stream. The Stream would be a good choice for parents of small children looking for an entry level minivan (they can also get the Element), while the 5 door Civic would be a good vehicle for those buyers who want a stylish sport wagon/hatch like the Mazda P5 or Toyota Matrix.

With either of these vehicles, I'd like Honda to use some contrasting colors on the dash, rather than the huge expanse of the dull gray color, similar to the one on the Si.

riopelle · May 2002

Jim,

I was motivated by "germanic goodness" back in 93. I honestly recommend sticking to "Japanese greatness". I think Germanic goodness is a myth that grew around Mercedes' antiquated reputation for being the world standard. For the price of a GTI you can probably get an RSX - easy choice. If traction control is must maybe consider the Focus ZX5? VWs are overpriced and under engineered, they've become handling nightmares. Look at Car and Drivers' recent comparos:

"Budget Bandito" $20K sport sedan comparo (2001)- Jetta 3rd, MP3 1st.
"Desert Foxes" Hot hatch comparo (2002) - GTI 3rd (last), Si 2nd, SVT 1st.
"4 wedges and a bubble" sport coupe comparo (2002) - Beetle 5th (last), RSX-S 1st.

The Protege won their "Little Cars 6.1" in 2000, and I read that the P5 won their mini-wagon comparo in the new issue, but I haven't seen it. C&D isn't the final authority but their comparos are worth taking into consideration.

It's really too bad that the Si is getting panned. Was it every really the "hottest" hatch? In '93 it had 127hp, the Se-R had 140, the Probe had 165, even the little Mazda MX3 had 130hp from a 1.8l V6! I think the Si has always just been "right" (aka virtuous in all ways), and I think this one is probably only 16" wheels and a slightly lower MSRP from being "right" too. But having owned the P5, I think it also qualifies as virtuous in all ways and is a worthy successor to your Si. The P5 handing will amaze you.

And Bobbyknight keep us informed what you purchase.

yamahar6 · May 2002

It is amazing what some bigger wheels and a subtle body kit can do. The Civic Si looks too much like an Accord - aka bland, however, Britain's (and Japan's) Civic Type R looks quite nice actually.

that car has 17 inch wheels that actually fill out the wheel wells. Even the Brit. car mags. (who usually despise body kits)said that it looks good.

I personally really want to test drive the car. I am just itching to see how shifting so high feels.
Any thoughts from anyone who has test driven it?

When not shifting, do you simply keep both hands on the wheel like a rally driver? Is having the shifter at an angle create some problems (gear detents, motion between gates).

I think though, that with this Si, Honda simply left a blank canvas for others. Nothing else can explain the lack of power comp'd with competitors, and the almost laughably small wheels.

All the car mags. are saying that we will get the Type R, but I don't think so: In Britain, they are itching for the Type S RSX, but don't have it.
I think that Honda is concerned about overlap; after all, they wouldn't want 2 b like GM

But, I don't really think that buyers would crosshop both cars: altho, both r hatchbacks, the RSX looks normal, and the Civic, like a bread van (altho. i personally like it).

bobbyknight · May 2002

If you get a chance, go drive the Si, hopefully you will be impressed. As far as the shifter goes, it looks wierd but using it is sublime. It has short, direct throws, light action, and is SMOOTH! One of the best honda manuals I have had the pleasure of shifting. The only difference is that it is easy to reach from the wheel. You barely have to move your hands from the wheel to shift.

I posted this earlier, but the base Civic HB in Great Britain is now available in a sport package. As far as I can tell, it looks just like a type R. Here is the link: http://beta.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=9384

I'm with you, I like the Si's plain looks, but that body kit looks really tempting. I'm afraid that if we eventually get the Type-R, my Si with the body kit will look like a poser.

riopelle: Right now I am leaning towards a WRX wagon, I can get one for close to invoice. That only puts it a couple of thousand more than the Si, and it offers much more utility and AWD. Here are the other cars I am considering:

Passat 1.8T 5-Speed: Lots of content for the money. Soft suspension.

Base RSX: Interior too small, Insurance too BIG!

Si: Can't see paying RSX money for it. Current insurance rates are really low.

riopelle · May 2002

The WRX. You have my sympathies. LOL.

What an awesome car dynamically. If you can swing it, enjoy enjoy. Subaru is finally discounting, eh?

You keep comparing the Si to the RSX monetarily. I though the were almost $3,000 apart (15%) - Am I off? Granted, 16" wheels adds $1,000 or so to the price of an Si.

bobbyknight · May 2002

The base RSX is about $1K more than the Si, but the RSX gives you:

16" wheels
side airbags
4 year warranty
climate control
more color choices
9 lb ft of torque

Plus, the RSX is being discounted. I can get one for less than the Si, although dealers are hinting at a discount(probably $100!). In the Indianaplis area RSX cannot be found. The two Acura dealers have a total of one base RSX 5-speed and about 5 RSX's total. I will probably buy in the Chicago area when I go home because they have plenty of inventory.

You are probably thinking about the RSX type-S. It lists for 23,400 and offers the leather/6-speed/200hp combo. Very nice car, but they are hard to find.

The WRX's are really starting to come down in price, if you can find a dealer that has a few. The local dealer here had about 6 WRX's. The dealers in Indianapolis had a total of one, and it was damaged. So I guess it depends on who has them.

riopelle · May 2002

Bobby,

Wow, I thought I remembered the base RSX being more than that. Honda really is shooting itself in the foot. Si offers:

rally shifter.
balance shafts.
more rear seat room.
ummm, ummm...

Except for the insurance rate, the RSX seems to offer much more bang for buck, although I prefer the sci-fi look of the Si to the handsome but conservative RSX. I suspect I'm in the minority there.

Although I prefer Honda's reliability to Subaru's, the WRX sounds like it a sound choice. Have fun embarrassing Beemers.

bobbyknight · May 2002

Its the room issue that kills the RSX for me. I need a bit more utility out of a car. The back seat area was very roomy for the Si, no so for the RSX understandibly.

Honestly, I could not tell the difference in engines smoothness driving both the RSX and Si. The RSX was a little peppier though.

Although both cars are built very nicely, the RSX feels like a much more expensive car just sitting in it.

riopelle · May 2002

The lack of room in the RSX was one of the things that sent me to the P5, so I understand completely. Also, the access to to the hatch is over a very high lip - awful on the back when loading heavy things. But that Acuta interior - yum.

I wonder if a honda dealer will give you a deal on a set of 16"s instead of coming down on the price of the Si?

asian24sf · May 2002

Hi Folks, I was wondering if anyone could explain how come the suggested fuel type for Si is regular while RSX calls for premium fuel, if they have the same engine?

kroliph · May 2002

Maybe the Honda engine has a knock sensor and the Acura does not? Other than that, I can't think of a good reason for it.

scootch · May 2002

It may be you're looking at the fuel requirement for the 200 hp RSX which does require premiun. The basic 160 hp version, similar to (but without balance shafts apparently) the Si may only require 87 octane as does the Si.

asian24sf · May 2002

thanks for your inputs, kroliph and scootch. the edmunds 'new car' section states regular fuel for Si but i was reading consumer reports today and it mentioned that Honda recommends premium for Si after all, which'd be consistent with rsx.

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

A dealership by me must have sold the white Si they had parked out front, because it was gone when I drove by this morning.

There's one owner, at least.

Has anyone bought one of these or even seen one being driven by an owner?

I'm going to be buying a new car in a few weeks and can't seem to get the Si out of my head (even though I know it's a bit soft and overpriced). I'll probably stick with a Protege5, but I would love to hear from someone who owns a new Si or has attempted to deal on one.

As my purchase gets closer, my Hondaphilia seems to be clouding my vision!

-jim

himiler · May 2002

Friday, May 3, 1:45 PM. A silver Si with the half nose mask, headed east on I-90 between Syracuse and Utica, NY.

Compared to the silver P5 that was 0.5 mile behind it, it looked pretty goofy. (snicker)

kroliph · May 2002

Took a very nice test drive in the Si on Saturday. I like the Hatchback styling. The engine has all the typical Honda goodness. (Although, I do miss that VTEC engagement on the previous model.) I think it has one of the smoothest 5-speeds Honda has ever made. The rally style shifter is great. The seats provide great support. But the handling is a real disappointment. A real oversight by Honda. I can deal with the fact that Honda produces more interesting versions of this car for other markets if they would have made this a fun to drive. My old 1991 Protege was more fun to drive with less HP! The previous version had much better handling and was certainly more interesting to drive. Honda has all the parts right. They just need to button this thing down and make it out-handle all other Civics before it!

After the test drive, I explained my thoughts to the dealer. He was honest and told me that 4 local Honda dealerships have a total of about 15 of these things for a couple of weeks and have been only able to sell 2!!! I told him it didn't surprise me. The Si is not priced far from the RSX type-S. I told him I would just spend $3000 more and get one of those. Or the WRX, MP-3, SVT Focus, and did you read the new review of the Dodge Neon SRT-4. Now some of you may be thinking how could you compare a Dodge to a Honda. The point I'm trying to make is that there is allot of other choices out there now. Honda needs to do something interesting with the Si to separate themselves from the rest. The Si is too important a product for Honda! Now it is just another car like any other. I'd rather have a fun handling MP-3 than a sloppy Si. Look for a good used Civic Si on Prelude and remember the fun cars Honda used to make for us. HONDA, BRING THE CTR BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!!!!!!!

I did learn something new though, Honda is bringing an Accord Type R, w/ 6-speed manual. Unfortunately it will probably cost 30,000.

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

Did the dealer you spoke with seem willing to deal on the price of the car, or are they sticking to MSRP (or MSRP+)in your area?

-jim

chem123 · May 2002

I hate to dash your hopes, but there is no chance that a mere dealer would know in advance what cars are coming. It would a mistake by Honda to reveal so early because it would give the competitors too much of a heads-up.

powderfinger · May 2002

I test drove the Civic Si a couple times during the past two weeks. There were things about the
car that impressed me, while other things that didn't.

About the styling. Hatchbacks are by their nature an engineering design challenge. They don't have the natural structural rigidness (compared to coupes and sedans) because the rear of the vehicle doesn't have structure that hold the sides together. This means that the engineers have to come up with different ways to stiffen up the frame.

While the design does look funky, it is very much a case of form following the need for structural rigidness. I was very impressed with the design in that it does a good job of creating space with a pretty stiff chasis. The car definitely felt more solid than any other Civic, which is saying a lot since it's a hatchback. (Part of this improvement was due to the use of heavier/stiffer high tensile steel, which is the main reason why the car is a 'porker').

The powertrain is definitely a notch above past Honda drivetrains, or at least those that I have driven. The manual transmission is virtually notchless and effortless to use. While the rally placement of the shifter looks weird, it didn't seem weird after using it a couple if times.

I have driven the Mazda P5 and must say that the powertrain is not as good. Try this: start the car and leave it in neutral. Check if the wheel or shifter has any vibration. I think that you will find that there is vibration in the P5 powertrain, while there is none in the Si or even a Civic EX. Mazda's are still good cars (I once owned a Mazda) and the great thing about those cars that Honda's never had was excellent steering, which Honda improved in this current Civic generation with the variable rate steering. Still, though, I haven't driven any car that is as good as this Si/RSX powertrain.

The powertrain is good but the gear ratios are a mystery. The (numerically) highest final drive ratio I have seen for a manual Honda/Acura is about 4.4. The RSX is a little lower and the cheap Civics are even lower. The Si has a ratio of 4.76, which means that you are running 4000RPM at 80 MPH. What is the point of this? This might work if it was the 5th gear in a 6sp transmission, but not a 5spd. This works out to be about 10% higher than the 160HP RSX., which exacts a mileage penalty and perhaps a noise penalty on the highway. Based on my own test drive, I found that the Si was still pretty quiet at 80MPH. I still don't see the why this was setup this way. I expect Honda to offer both good performance and economy. Geeze, a Hyundai Elantra gets better mileage with their 2 liter engine!

The ergonomics of the interior were not bad, though it takes getting used to the higher cowl of the dash. I think Honda has gone down a notch or two in the quality (or the appearance of quality) in the materials used in the interior, for the Si as well as regular Civics. I think that the '93 del sol had the best quality looking interior materials.

I did at first get sticker shock when I saw the price. (The dealers in my area are discounting the car, $500 with no effort, $1000 for serious buyers). But, compare the car to a Civic EX which can be bought for about 15,900 vs. say 18,500 for an Si. That's a difference of 2,600, which can probably be made up by expected higher resale value in addition to the upgraded stuff in the car.

An RSX 5sp cloth can be bought for 19,000-19,500. The RSX is probably a better value due to all the extra stuff for a few bucks more. But, it doesn't have as much room.

silver_bullet · May 2002

I'm curious about the Si, and would at least like to drive it before crossing it off my list, but I can't stand the thought of having to deal with the slimeball salespeople at the Honda stores near me. Thanks for your observations. Perhaps Honda went with the crazy final drive ratio in an effort to get some acceleration out of the car? I can't think of any other reason, since higher revs usually mean poorer fuel economy.

kroliph · May 2002

I didn't pressure him on price. He knew I was just there to check on my Odyssey Order. I have sent this guy allot of customers and when something interesting comes out he usually will let me drive it. He described it as a real 'dud' as far as sales were concerned. I think they got spoiled w/ Odyssey and S2000 being pretty much sold before they even hit the lot. From the poor sales report I got, I would have offered him $500 over invoice. I imagine in other areas these things are selling well, but not around me. I have seen some pictures of new Si's on Temple of VTEC web site with 17 inch tires and new springs to lower car and they look great! I was kind of hoping Honda would do that from the Factory and save me the time and more important the money.

Concerning Accord Type R, I can only tell you what the dealer told me. I would say that most of the time I know more than the dealer about upcoming new designs just based on my own research. But this guy seems to know his product pretty well. Lets hope he is right. The Accord could stand to have some excitement!!

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

Paul-

Enjoy the Odyssey! My wife has a 2001 and she loves it, despite the minivan stigma. It's a great vehicle.

And now it looks really sporty, what with it's resemblance to that performance icon, the Civic Si! LOL!

-jim

kroliph · May 2002

We are actually having some trouble getting an Odyssey. Our delivery date has been set back to July or August. At this point, I'm willing to say wait until September and get a 2003. Might be easier to get into a Pilot this summer. Never thought I would think about owning an SUV. But in reality it is an AWD Odyssey, just looks different. Not sure what we are going to do. My wife is not happy with having to wait so long. We had twins about a year ago and need something w/ more space! Later!

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

if you have to "suffer" with the Pilot!

yamahar6 · May 2002

I drove the Si, and loved the shifter! Thanks, Bobby Knight!

It was fun pretending i was petta solberg, or Tommi Makkinen, when i would put my R. hand back on the wheel after each shift.

One thing to consider to those thinking of base RSX vs. Si: resale value. I think that this is important whether you lease or buy.

Even if you keep your car for 10 years, like i like to do, it's nice to have a few more bucks in your pocket from better resale value.
My point is that perhaps the Acura name might be worth the inital premium.

kroliph · May 2002

TMV for the RSX-Type S is $22,900. That is not much of a leap from $19,400 for the Si. And you would definitely get more performance for the money. If the Si was 17,500 to 18,000, I would say not too bad for money. At $19,400, it is just too close to other fun cars in price range. I sure enjoyed the placement of that fun shifter though!

5port · May 2002

kroliph

I would bet you can find Si's going for 17,500 to 18,000 right now (or soon). My local dealer has had two Si's on the lot for 2 months and they have not moved. I'm not saying there bad cars...just asking too much.

Ex 94 CivicSi owner - new Elantra GT owner
Are you listening Honda!

bluesunlion · May 2002

A few weeks ago, I had my 98 Civic EX in for the 90K service. After I dropped it off at service, I walked up to the front of the dealership just to look at what was available. They had one Civic Si on the front patio, and after taking one look, I was so turned off I didn't even want to take it for a drive. The redesigned shape of the headlights and other features, as well as the hatchback, made me think ford focus! Maybe I just don't fit into the market segment any more. I like Hondas, but until the decision makers in Japan start cranking out something stylish and fun, I most likely will not be buying another Honda. This from a former Honda salesperson!
I do have a question for those that actually drove one. Was the shifter comfortable to use from the seating position? I have fairly long legs and a long torso.

waxbean · May 2002

People! If you don't like the SI, get another car! The bashing here is a bit out of control. I've test-driven all the hot hatches, including the P5 everyone is in love with; the SI is the best combination of crisp handling, acceleration and (what am I thinking) looks. And you get legendary Honda reliability built in. I know all this is subjective, but I just had to put my two cents in: it's not THAT bad. In fact, I'm getting one; let the bashing begin!

jim_loves_cars · May 2002

please make sure you post your experiences with your new Si here. This board is a ghost town!

It will be nice to have at least one owner sharing details here!

Also, tell what you pay and if dealers are "dealing" on the car.

( sorry no bashing -- maybe later! ;D )

-jim

himiler · May 2002

Congrats on your new doorstop!

What color did you get?

bsme1991 · May 2002

Regarding your RSX -vs- Civic Si cost at resale, you actually get about the same after 5 years. Check out the ownership cost though, Si will save you about $2,350

Five year ownership cost based on 15,000 mi/year including financing, fuel, maintenance, and repairs. Zip code 97005 area costs:

Focus SVT $28,164
RSX 2D 5M $27,069
Celica GT 2D 5M $25,001
Civic Si side airbag $24,718
Accord LX 4D 2.3L 5M $24,557
Elantra GLS 2L 5M $23,559
Focus LX 4D 5M $23,496
Civic EX 4D 5M side air bags $22,402
Sentra GXE 4D 5M $22,309
Civic EX 4D 5M $22,261
Civic LX 4D 5M $20,954
http://applications.edmunds.com/products/tco/TCOintroController

Something here to convince my wife we can afford a 2002 Civic Si!

waxbean · May 2002

Oh my God, you're funny! You should hit Vegas?

Just curious, what do you drive?

himiler · May 2002

Thanks. I'll comp you when I get there.

Click on my handle to learn what I drive.

sobers · May 2002

I drive a silver Si & the build quality was **amazhing**. The shifter was COOL. It was really un-si (or un-Honda) like quiet. There was hardly a egine noise which was a bit uncomfortable to shift (depending on engine noise) I had to look at the tach to shift!

I am disappointed that it is not priced bit low & doesn't wear more aggrresive shoes (z rated) but it looks like a real contender for mods. I was also concerned with Si being a hatchback. Coupe would have been a much better pacage atleast as far as handling goes. With the current response I guess you can buy one for $500-700 over invoice (atleast in midwest)

Interestingly I see probles with new hondas is challlenge from used Hondas! :-)

After driving a used 2001 EX-V6 with 12,000 miles which is available for say 21500 + fees I do not see a reason to buy 2002 EX 4 cyl!!

Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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