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Just my 2 cents.
Here are my 4Runner questions...
Does the 2006 / 2007 V8 4Runner have a Torsen rear differential, or a Viscous Coupling Limited Slip unit in the rear differential, or does the rear differential simply rely on the Traction Control system to accomplish slippery surface wheelspin control on the rear axle ???
When the 2006 / 2007 V8 4Runner Torsen center differential is locked by the dashboard switch, is the Traction Control system disabled ???
Does the Traction Control system wear out the brake pads / warp rotors at lower mileage than a vehicle without traction control ???
How capable is the 2006 / 2007 4Runner V8 on ice and in snow ??? I have family members that often need emergent medical care. I have to be able to get to care providers regardless of weather.
There was something mentioned about wanting to disable the traction control for situations like pulling onto a highway in the rain to avoid having it slow you down suddenly and put you at risk of getting rear-ended. Is this accomplished by a switch or pulling a fuse or some other modification ???
Thanks in advance for any info.
When the center differential is locked the traction control system is still active.
No. When a wheel is slipping, it doesn't take much force to brake it. My brother is pretty hard on is 04 4Runner,with 30,000 miles brakes have 75% pad left.
Very capable. If you get really bad winters, put snow tires on in the winter and it will be unstoppable.
I think this mainly happens on the V6 when in 2WD. It is very hard to slip a wheel in 4WD.
Another 3 questions, if you can answer:
When the 4 Lo Range is activated does that automatically lock the center differential ???
Does the Traction Control function on the front wheels also ???
Does the Sport Model suspension hop around when driven on less than smooth highways ???
Thanks again.
It performs well in snow, but realize that the controlling factor in snow is your tires. The 4WD system will allow you to accelerate quite well in snow. But it doesn't improve braking and turning performance. The OEM Dunlops absolutely sucked in the snow -- acceleration was fine but braking and turning were completely horrible. I purchased a set of dedicated snow tires. I've driven through 1 1/2 feet of snow without a problem.
Traction control functions on the front wheels as well.
Concerning the ride quality, I strongly suggest that you take one on an extended test drive. The 4Runner is a truck. It drives pretty well, for a truck. It handles pretty well, for a truck. It rides pretty well, for a truck. But there is no mistaking it for anything other than a body-on-frame truck with a live rear axle. My 2003 4Runner does have a mild hobby-horsing motion on rough pavement. You can certainly feel that heavy rear axle moving around. It is not a sedan, minivan, or car-based SUV. It's big and heavy with a high center of gravity. It's cornering limits are low and when you reach them it will understeer mightily.
I've never had a problem with the spin control kicking in prematurely on rain-slick pavement. The 4WD system provides plenty of traction in such situations. I do feel the spin control is a bit over-eager in snow. In those situations, the spin control can cut in a bit too quickly, shutting down the throttle. You can turn lock the center diff (thus defeating the spin control) in the snow, but then the truck gets a bit tail happy. These days, I only lock the center diff when I'm offroad. The true answer to this issue is to get snow tires. Once you do that, you'll have all the traction you'll ever need in the snow.
I was not asking about the ability to prevent vehicle understeer, oversteer, and turnover. Instead I was asking about the ability to send power to wheels that have grip to pavement or tractionable snow or tractionable ice.
Once I can get going, I usually can drive cautionsly enough with a good set of tires to stay in reasonable control. If I cannot get going at all I'm in big trouble.
I know the importance of good tires. I do appreciate very much what you folks are saying about this. I have had some really bad all season tires that I threw away practically new at great replacement cost, but I felt my life and the lives of my passengers, (and everyones property too) was worth it.
I have had to use center differential lock and lo range on some of my older full-time 4wd suv's to get off of ice. That's why I'd like to know if 4 Lo automatically locks the center diff and if locking the center diff disables the limited slip system on the rear (whatever it's called), and if the limited slip effect works on the front diff / wheels too.
I've used limited slip clutch pack rear diffs and they stink on ice and snow. Vehicle fishtails dangerously.
I've used viscous limited slip on rears and centers operating in conjunction with standard open diffs and they worked great for me. Always got me going and no fishtailing.
I've used computerized electromechanical center diff systems in the center and they worked well, though not as well as viscous limited slip on top of standard diff.
I've never used torsen diffs at all, but they have a good rep.
I've never had computerized brake control limited slip (whatever Toyota calls it). I came here to get info.
I appreciate all the help you folks are giving me.
Looking to buy a new 4Runner V8 Sport Edition.
Have driven truck / suv's before. Know they ride hard. Just wondering what degree of punishment Sport Edition will doll out. :-)
Thanks again.
When in low range the torsen still works, or you can manually lock the center diff. Traction control does the same thing in low range.
The Sport uses XREAS suspension which I have on my Limited as an option. It links the front right shock to the left rear, and the left front shock to the right rear. It works great, and in my opinion makes the 4Runner one of the smoothest body on frame SUVs on the road.
As for traction on ice and snow, it will plow through anything, and start on ice with no problem. If you drive cautiously you will be fine stopping, but it will slip on hard stops. Snow tires change that, I put Blizzaks on my 4Runner, and the slipping stopped. It will stop on a dime on snow and ice. An All Terrain tire like Bridgestone AT Revo will do a pretty good job too.
In my opinion you will not be dissapointed with this truck!!
Is there any kickback in the steering wheel when the brakes clamp down on a tractionless spinning tire on the front axle ???
"No kickback" in steering was supposed to be one of the advantages of using either a viscous limited slip with standard differential on the front axle of 4wd's or a torsen type differential on the front axle of 4wd's. Clutch pack diffs tried on the front axles supposedly snapped the steering wheel hard when they locked for those who dared to try it.
How does the Toyota traction control system behave as felt through the steering wheel when a front wheel gets locked down ???
Thanks again.
Besides which doesn't the 4runner allocate engine torque 30/70 F/R in AWD (non-locked center diff'l) mode? That would make it unusual, rare, for a front wheel to break traction first.
TRAC (traction control) works in 2WD-Hi or 4WD-Hi with open center diff (essentially AWD or full-time 4WD-Hi mode where you can drive an any surface). ATRAC works in 4WD-Hi or 4WD-Low with center diff locked (off-road mode if you will). I believe there is some difference in how it works based on whether you are on or off-road. In my experience, TRAC (on road) will brake all four wheels if slippage occurs, whereas ATRAC (off-road) I believe will allow continuous wheelspin to at least one wheel (while braking the opposing wheel across the axle) on the front and rear axles to allow the truck to regain traction in off-road conditions. IE, if the right-front and left-rear wheels are off the ground, ATRAC will apply braking force to those wheels, but allow the left-front and right-rear to spin freely in the dirt/mud/sand/rocks to gain traction.
Oh, and BTW, the 4R up to 2000 and the current FJ Cruiser has a rear locked diff option. The old 4R had no VSC/TRAC/ATRAC though, whereas the new FJ does have that too. But, only the 6 speed FJ has the full-time 4WD (Hi, Hi w/ center diff locked, and Low w/ center diff locked) with center diff (rear diff lock is standard), whereas the 5-speed auto version has only a part-time 4WD with no center diff (2WD-Hi, and 4WD-Hi and 4WD-Low for off-road conditinos with the rear diff lock being optional).
This is my understanding of the system. Everyone got all that?
Okay, um, I know that 4Runner has two different transfer case options. In the V6 the transfer case can be set to rear wheel drive (2WD). Toyota for some bizarre reason calls this a part-time system. This is very confusing for the reason that older 4wd systems in many SUV's and pickups had no center differential at all and thus could only be used on slippery surfaces to avoid axle bind-up and tire scrubbing. That no center differential system was called part-time 4wd because it could only be used part of the time (snow days and mud festivals). Toyota's part time definition simply means that you can use rear wheel drive if you choose to, not because you have to. Toyota's part time system does have a center differential.
The V8 4Runner has a full time system which toyota means to say that you cannot operate in rear wheel drive or front wheel drive alone. Everyone else in the industry calls this (AWD) All Wheel Drive.
Now chiefjojo are you saying that Trac is for the "part time" transfer case and ATrac is for that "full time" transfer case ???
It gets really confusing when vehicles like the 4runner are equipped with both full-time AWD and part-time 4WD/4X4 modes.
AWD systems seem to come in three "flavors" currently, a fully open center differential with the brakes being used to prevent wheelspin/slip and thereby apportion engine torque, ue of a VC to "partially" lock the center diff'l with wheelspin/slip, and of course the Torsen center differential.
4WD/4X4 systems, in general, always use a locked center differential and therefore constitute Part-Time systems since they cannot be used, should NEVER be engaged, on tractive surfaces.
My own personal differentiation of 4WD versus 4X4 is that the 4X4 uses a transfer case, planetary gearset, so a low gear range can be provided.
ABS functionality is ALWAYS disabled in Part-time, locked center differential, mode. We all know that during braking the weight "shifts" toward the front and therefore the front brakes take on the "brunt" of any braking effort.
That means that during braking the front wheels almost always turn slower than the front. If the center differtial is locked then ABS activity at the rear would result, by default, in the same activity on the front.
Therefore I would be VERY surprised if traction control isn't also disabled in 4WD/4X4 mode. With the center differential locked traction control braking at the front would also result in braking control of the rear driveline.
Insofar as VSC is involved some aspects may be disabled (rear braking to aid in recovering from understearing comes immediately to mind). While front differential braking, or "unbraking" to prevent over-stearing might remain enabled.
On the FJ Cruiser Trac operates in 2WD or 4WD high, but shuts off in Low Range. In Low Range you have an option of both ATrac and a locking rear differential, both are engaged by a switch. When you lock the rear differential, ABS and ATrac are disabled. Two interesting things, when you lock the rear diff. ATrac does not work, so the front has only an open differential. Second you can now shut off ATrac, will we see this on 4Runner, Sequoia, and Land Cruiser? The rear diff and ATrac are an option on the FJ, but come together. So you either have both or nothing.
So, are you writing about the brake fluid being pumped by the abs pump as controlled by the ATrac system ???
Toyota should have just used Torsen diffs on the front and rear to minimize confusion on this forum :-)
I had a Hummer H2 that I borrowed from a friend for a week, and it has Torsen diffs on the front and rear, and it was horrible on ice. I was driving it one night and it was slipping all over the place. When I got home I had a very hard time getting it up my steep driveway. When I finally did I was curious so I backed my 4Runner down and it went up with no problem at all. The traction control kicked in, did its thing and I didn't break stride. A torsen diff is good in the center because it keeps power going to both axles all the time without it being locked, but I prefer traction control controlling side to side traction especially for snow and ice. The Sequoia had all open diffs until 2005. I had an 03 and an 05, and the 05 with the Torsen center diff made a big difference. Also the Highlander had a Viscous center diff from 01 till 04. In 04 they took the Viscous out of the center and used an open diff with Trac. For 07 they are going back to a Viscous center diff, so it must be better to have a limited slip unit in the center, this way both axles are always getting power.
From what I have read, the "Trick" with the Hummer and other vehicles that have Torsen's on front and/or rear that are not "pre-loaded" (a designed in drag to compensate for one of the design anomolies during a zero traction event) is that when you are trying to get up an icy driveway or out of an icy parking spot, you have to two foot the brake and gas simultaneously. The drag of a small amount of braking action while accelerating causes the Torsens to avoid that zero traction anomoly and do their thing. I have never had the pleasure to try this personally with a Torsen diff, but I need to do it on one of my clutch pack diff vehicles and it does seem to work as described.
Next time your friend gives you a turn at the wheel, give it a try and let us know if the theory from the Hummer instruction manual actually works in practice on the vehicle.
Incidently in this month's Four Wheeler mag they put Torsens into a project vehicle for mud and dirt and their review was that it was better than a "locker" for those purposes.
Thanks for all the helpful info.
I have now read almost all, if not actually all, owners manuals of related vehicles (4runner, Sequoia, GX470, etc,)and in no place did it relate that these functions would be active with the center diff'l locked.
Being well aware that doesn't cover the issue well I did find one statement saying that if the traction control's engine dethrottling mode interfered with vehicle manuverablity then the driver could lock the center diff'l to avoid engine dethrottling.
On many, but not all vehicles, 4 Lo locks the center diff. If yours has a separate center diff lock, you need to turn it on to complete your test.
HOWEVER, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND TRYING TO DRIVE OFF A JACK. YOU'RE RISKING INJURY AND/OR VEHICLE DAMAGE. If your transfer case is not working right, you need someone with a lift and the factory diagnostic steps to safely figure this out.
Good luck and stay safe.
I got a response from Toyota and they said that the Center Differential Lock and the ATRAC system can "both be engaged at the same time."
I asked them specifically about the 2006 / 2007 V8 Sport 4Runner, so that vehicle is the one they referenced their answer to.
If you wish to ask them about your vehicle go to Toyota's website. It takes a long time for them to respond, so don't expect an answer for a while.
Hope this is helpful to you.
its sweet time. PS. I try to "exercise" this procedure every couple of weeks or so. Should I be doing this more regularly? Thanks for any help. As an aside.....I Love this machine, it is so solid, reliable, good looking, and tough. I will never, ever, ever buy another north american made domestic vehicle, GM, Ford, Chrysler....they are flashy, but underneath and inside, they are all crap. Thanks.
If you are stationary, and want to shift in AWD, you can (1) press the 4WD button and shift the tranny into neutral and back to drive--this often helps engage and disengage the system quicker. If you are moving, you can either carefully follow step 1 or you can (2) blip the throttle on and off until it engages while driving in a straight line (I believe the manual recommends driving straight). The throttle blip technique has worked for me, but it can take 5-10 sec to engage.
Just last night, I used step 1 (shifting in to neutral while parked), and it worked like a charm--took about 2-3 sec. I usually try to do that if I know I am going to be driving in the rain or snow, and leave the moving engagement of the system for the more rare occassions when weather conditions change while I am driving.
Again, this is my own experience over the last 4 years of ownership. I hope it helps.
I have a 2000 4Runner Limited with the button on the 4WD lever that allows you to engage what I _think_ is an AWD mode. I _think_ this has the 3 open differentials (please correct me if I'm wrong - the manual is completely useless here), but this vehicle doesn't have the TRAC feature installed on LCs of that year and 4Runners starting in 2001.
So...in 2WD mode, with an open rear differential (I don't have the locker anyway), in a low traction situation power goes to the wheel that's spinning, and you go nowhere. Now...putting it into this AWD mode, I extend this metaphor so that if either rear wheel slips, all of the power is transferred to the rear - and to the wheel that's slipping by the rear differential - and...well, you still go nowhere.
If that's true, then it seems like the reverse would be true - if a front wheel were slipping, all the power would go there.
And that's simply ridiculous - this system would seem to transfer all the power to the wheel that has no traction! Obviously, I'm missing something important here.
Assuming someone can explain what my AWD system does (I think I've got a handle on the part-time 4WD part), I then have a followon question ...if one wheel is slipping (in snow, for example), what would be the effect of lightly applying the brake _and_ the accelerator? A light brake would stop that spinning wheel, right? Effectively a manual TRAC system?
Because a "dog-clutch", spline type, coupling is used to lock the center diff'l. The splines must first line up perfectly in order for the shaft to slide into the lock position.
SOP, nature of the beast.
A slow creep will generally rsult in a quicker lock-up, and I sometimes had to put my Jeep in reverse.
THX for your advice.
I see you got a reasonable answer to your delay question, but I hope someone can pipe up with a reasonable explanation of ho this AWD mode operates in pre-1991 4Runners. And whether my question about lightly riding the brake would be somewhat analogous to what the TRAC system does.
Simply unplug the ABS pumpmotor, or remove the fuse.
THX
Lock the center diff and the system will still allow some wheelspin (by wheels that have traction) in sand and mud... no need to pull any fuses. I have an '02 model with ATRAC and it gets through sand and mud just fine. A lot of FJ owners actually PREFER ATRAC to using their rear locker. :surprise:
Can't rember if the 200 had a center diff loack or rear diff lock but button woul dbe on the dash not on the gear shift.