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Comments
Do you think you'll get a new 4Runner to play with in the snow or does your dealership frown on that sort of thing?
You can read more about it here:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12
Enjoy!
HiC
Pretty sure my RX300 does the same thing, engine doesn't seem at all peppy in snow mode.
I did just sell a Limited 4WD to a friend of mine and he reports that it did extremely well. He used to work at a Toyota dealership in F&I so he thought he knew all about the truck. He refused to allow our salesperson to review the proper use of it and he now regrets that. The traction control system startled him and he had to call me to figure out how to engage the 4WD system. He felt pretty dumb when I told him it was always in 4WD.
I had to explain the 4WD system to the fleet salesman and he thought that all the 4WD systems on the all the Toyotas were the same.I hope that in the future that Toyota will include this system on the 2004 Tundra.
Cliffy, any info on what Toyota will be introducing in 2004?
RE the pre-98 Land Cruiser...is there any otrque transfer devices for the front and rear axles. I know there is the differential lock for the center, and I know that there isnt any trick front or rear differentials. Is there a traction control system or VSC to control wheelspin?
Wishin, there was an option for front and rear locking differentials on the pre-98's and locking rear on the 98 and 99. With an IFS, they had to drop the front locker. Both were dropped when the VSC based system came out in 2000.
HiC
Hank in Copper Hill, VA
Hank in Copper Hill, VA
You cross posted this to another board, and mentioned it was a repo. For an expensive and complex maintenance vehicle like the 80 this is generally a bad thing. By the time a vehicle is reposessed, it has not had payments for a LONG time. By the time THIS stage has been reached, the owner generally ceased maintaining it for quite some time. So, I'd check carefully for signs of neglect that would cost you a bundle, and I'd not pay anywhere near the market value for a distressed rig like this.
IdahoDoug
Question: I kept hearing a sound, fairly loud, coming from the front drivers side. The best way to describe it would be a spring releasing and flopping around a bit before coming to rest. You ever play with a spring door stop when you were a kid? If so you know what I'm talking about. Any ideas if this is normal, and, if so, what would be causing it? I *think* I only heard it when the skid or traction control was engaging, but I'm not positive about that.
Another question - the VSC disengages when the differential is locked (which kills the skid alert bell, thankfully). Does the traction control also turn off?
TIA - this, and all the Edmunds boards - have been very informative and interesting. I appreciate the time and effort people are taking here. I only wish I had known about this before buying my new car.
I'm curious about your experience with the 2003. Did you ever manager to get stuck with this system without locking the center differential? Had you read this topic and the description of how the torsen center works and how the A-trac system functions, do you think you could have avoided getting stuck if you did?
The reason I ask is this: I am concerned that a lot of complaints and problems could be avoided if Toyota did a better job of explaining the system to buyers BEFORE they get into trouble. It is a pretty fool proof system but many folks get concerned about all the clicking and whirring noises and back off the throttle which allows them to bog down and get stuck. I'd like to hear your opinions on this.
We'll still be here when you're ready for your next purchase! Meanwhile, folks here are very friendly and helpful and we'd all like to hear about your experiences.
tidester, host
Concerning the sound - I wouldn't describe it as grinding/clicking - it does sound very different from the ABS on my previous vehicle (2000 Audi A4). If/when I hear it again I will try to determine if it is connected to braking or not.
I did not get stuck at any time with the center differential locked - in fact, once locking it, I was able to become unstuck with no problem. I was a little concerned about engaging it at the time because I didn't want to come to a complete stop and lose all forward momentum. And, yes, I had read the information on here about this issue when I first got the truck (about 4 weeks ago) but the details had gotten lost in the information overload. I certainly don't fault Toyota for this - I had the information I needed, and it is my reponsibility as the owner of the vehicle (or any tool) to learn how to use it properly. Toyota covers much of this in the owners manual - it could be better written, with perhaps a table showing the various configurations and applicatons of 4HI and 4LO, with and without the locking differential, but the information is there.
BTW - I am not a dedicated off-roader - I just like tooling around in the woods when the opportunity arises. Someone with more skills or experience may not have had any problems at all. I was very impressed with the ability of this vehicle - it can handle much more than the driver would attempt.
With the center diff open but with the Torsen working, I was able to move through the muck, but with difficulty. As described above, the VSC and TRAC systems were working almost nonstop. It was VERY slow going and almost impossible to get any forward momentum, so all forward progress was through traction. Turning was also very slow.
With the center diff locked, the VSC is disabled, but the TRAC stystem is still active, but is allowed to let the wheels spin a bit more than when the diff is open. Moving, turning and keeping momentum was MUCH easier. I was able to make it up and down 10%-15% grades with no problem at all.
The biggest difficulty that I found was that, at least in situations with mud, the constant transferring of power front and rear and side to side in both front and rear with the application of the VSC was sapping too much power. With the VSC disengaged, the additional wheelspin needed to dig down to solid dirt and just the TRAC system distributing power left and right accordingly was MUCH more effective.
Hope this helps.
Ken
With electronics limiting wheelspin, this spells poor mud performance even with quality mud tires.
IdahoDoug
However, VSC is always ON until you lock the center diff.
I could see leaving the V6 model in 4WD all the time to have the traction control working to its full potential.
Many "true" 4WD vehicles still bias the torque to the rear, including the new 4runner. That obviously makes it somewhat unlikely that it will be the front that "first" spins out/loose. And remember that part of the traction control "activity" is to dethrottle the engine when/if necessary.
You no doubt are aware that most modern day electronic traction controllers, ECUs, will apply the rear brakes, even differentially if the/a rear wheel(s) loose traction.
A careful design/consideration of the Trac ECU firmware might result in that not being the case at the front. A designer would certainly have second thoughts about using front differential braking, that might result in steering wheel "feedback" strong enough to yank the steering wheel right out of an unaware someone's light fingered grip.
Think about it, how is traction control implemented with ONLY FWD? Do they use the brakes? Differentially?
Or do there follow the clearly safer, more conservative, design path and simply dethrottle the engine on front tire slippage on FWD?
By running your vehicle in 4WD all the time the only result may be simply lower fuel mileage and increased wear on that portion of the driveline.
B
Hope this clarifies.
Ken
Wouldn't readily go into 4WD because of differing circumference F/R.
I stopped rotating tires when the warning came out about cross-rotating radials, never resumed. And I never rotated the spare anyway.
And how did low-pressure warning systems get in here, the only one I know of, of that type, is the Alero.
The discussion, I think, was regarding the potential for drivetrain damage from driveline wind-up due to differing tire circumference F/R.
This "thread" started when someone asked (paraphrasing), "will it damage my drivetrain if I engage "part-time" drive mode for ten miles on dry pavement every so often as recommended to keep all the parts lubbed up?"
My response was "not if those ten miles are relatively straight and you don't have significantly differing wheel/tire sizes F/R".
Significant might mean new tires on the rear vs 17K on the front.
F/R Wheel/tires sizes "matter" when you're trying to dis/engage the two splines (un/lock the center diff'l) with differing rotational rates F/R.
I could have advised not to do any tight, nor continuous turning, but opted for go "straight" instead. The only possible problem that might arise from my "straight" advice is if there is some significant level of F/R tire circumference difference.
I try my very best to not give bad nor incomplete advice.
If you can think of any other possible problems then please throw them in here.
73's
The V-6 2003 4Runner when put into 4 wheel drive is the same as the V-8 is in Full Time 4 Wheel drive. It is safe to leave it in 4 Wheel Drive continually with no concern about damage (not required to be on a slippery surface).
If you feel the need, you can push the button on the left side of the dash and lock-up the differential (cancels VSC). I believe this requires that you are on a surface where your tires can slip some.
If I am correct, I don't understand the concern about placing the V-6 into 4 Wheel Drive at least once a month (You should not require to lock-up the Torsen differential). It is a full-time 4 Wheel Drive system that you can engage/disengage as you desire.
AM I CORRECT??? I don't bother asking the dealer because they have not answered one question correctly yet!
Thanks in advance for your help and clarification.
Mike
However, IF you choose to use 2wd mode most of the time (as i do), then you should run it in 4wd for 10 miles/month. This also applies to the older 4Runners with part-time 4wd system.
Yes, do NOT lock your center differential on dry land.
You can easily damage portions of the drivetrain of a AWD/4WD with the center diff'l locked with an extended drive, more than a few miles, straight down the road.
Thanks for the input.
B
And are you really sure that your owners manual doesn't refer to putting your "taco" into AWD (sometimes referred to as "full-time 4WD") once a month? It seems to me that would serve the need for lubbing up all the gears just as well as putting it in (part-time) 4WD.
Asked the question although I have no idea if the taco has an AWD mode.