Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

bodydouble · May 2002

I don't think even Honda rebuilds their transmissions. I know that dealers have been instructed not to take any tranny apart. They just take the whole thing off and swap another one. Go around to some of the other Honda-related forum and threads and ask what people think of Honda automatic trannies. I know your boss probably has you believing otherwise, but Honda auto trannies have always lagged behind the industry leaders.

isellhondas · May 2002

You know, it's possible to make a post without resorting to sarcasm.

Of course, you should know that forums like this are bound to attract people with tales of woe to tell. I guess, it would be easy for a person like yourself to jump to the conclusion that the sky is falling.

Honda builds GREAT automatic transmissions.

Do they ever have troubles...of course!

And, I think you are correct. I think when a transmission needs to be overhauled, they simply replace it with a remanufactured unit rather than repair the old one. Same thing with alternators and starters.

Still waiting for someone (you, perhaps?) to tell me how long a manufacturer should do work for free after a warranty expires?

I'm honestly curious about what people think?

bodydouble · May 2002

WHERE IS THE SARCASM???

Re: "Honda builds GREAT automatic transmissions." - I don't even know how begin to respond to an unqualified, general statement like that. Do you even care to know the product you're selling? Or have you read so much of Honda's sales literature that you now believe the stuff at face value?

tntitan · May 2002

Since you guys are not going to let this go and I continue to read this banter, I have decided that I may as well add my opinion. No doubt that Isell is biased toward Honda products. However, I believe there is good reason for this besides the fact that he sells them. Does he jump to Honda's defense - hell yes, at the drop of a hat. I really don't have to much of a problem with getting diverse opionions on the same subject. I think it is great for the board in general. After several days of discussion and many criticisms of his transmission warranty position, I do not understand why bodydouble continues to refuse to answer Isell's repeated question of how many miles beyond the warranty should Honda honor the transmission failure. If you are going to harp over and over about the same issue step up and state what should be done instead of going on and on without making a constuctive suggestion.

I will say that my personal opinion on the subject is this. How long an automatic transmission lasts depends in large part as to how it is treated and cared for during the life of the vehicle. Since I change my transmission fluid every 30K, come to a complete stop before changing from reverse to drive, almost never change gears to downshift or pretend that I am shifting gears manually, I would be upset if I don't get at least 75K from my transmission and really expect to get 150K. I would probably ask Honda to replace it for me up to 75K and take whatever I could get.

I admit I am not very mechanically inclined and may be extremely full of [non-permissible content removed] with my methods but that is my opinion - right or wrong.

isellhondas · May 2002

Sarcasm ? Well, you might want to re-read your posts # 1194 and # 1200 and see what you think.

Oh, add your last post too.

Yes, I do know the product I am selling.

But, at this point, I don't care...you can think whatever you want to.

isellhondas · May 2002

A sensible post...thank you.

bodydouble · May 2002

I never debated whether or not Honda should have covered the cost for the repair. I don't see any point in debating that. Honda has a 3/36 warranty, and the failure is outside of the warranty, so Honda has every right to deny coverage. What I was debating was isell's assertion that it is not unreasonable for the transmission to fail at that mileage. If isell's opinion on the transmission is an isolated incident, I probably wouldn't even think twice about it. But isell has NEVER recognized anything to be a problem. Every problem that any poster has ever mentioned, he has dismissed as being normal, or he hasn't seen it, or heard of it. Furthermore, he dumps on people for even being concerned that there may be a problem. I've never met the man, but I don't think I would want to buy a car with my hard-earned money from the guy. I don't think he respects, much less cares about, the concerns of his customers.

beachnut · May 2002

You're honestly curious about what people think? I realize that you may not feel obligated to answer the question that you originally posed, but I'm curious to hear what YOU think too. Really. No flames here ... it just seems like the point is moot, unless of course you have personal experience of Honda giving folks a break. You mentioned a goodwill adjustment at 40 or 50K, but that's not *free* and could be open to all sorts of interpretation. But fwiw, and to answer your exact question, I think that up to 50K at no cost would be reasonable, considering the track record. Then maybe a prorated deal up to 75K.

rbruehl · May 2002

I had two transmissions replaced on my V-6 Honda Accord. One at 38K another at 40,254. That 40245 miles is not acceptable even for a remanufactured Honda transmission. The first transmission at 38K wasn't acceptable either.

When I started posting here regarding my first transmission problem, isellhondas was less than cordial. Come to think of it, he was outright heartless in his terse comments.

I had two transmissions replaced by Honda and finally realized I didn't want the car any more. I didn't want a THIRD STRIKE with my car once again sitting in a Honda repair facility.

Now isellhondas has branded me a trouble maker saying that I constantly post and am a complainer. Well, I have ever right to post my story and don't give a "rats [non-permissible content removed]" what isellhondas thinks. I have posted my story on other Honda boards and guess what---"The Accord transmission problem has been posted on numerous boards"! Many others have posted the same problems that I incurred with my Accord. This is why the NHSTA has all types of documentation regarding the problem. As far as the nonobjective statement of Honda Accord transmissions as being "reliable", that is now a fallacy. Up until the 5th Generation Accord, Honda made a very good transmission. When the 6th Generation Accord debuted, that "once reliable" transmission was no more!

There is "nothing" and I mean nothing objective by any comment that he posts regarding transmission failure. He is a mouthpiece for Honda. Hypothetically, if he sold a brand new Accord to a customer and the transmission fell off while driving off the lot he would say that things like that just don't happen and stick his head in the sand. Ya that "Ostrich effect" is isellhonda to the T! Being sarcastic regarding his over zealous posts just makes me nauseous. That's my two cents and I sympathize with anyone that has encountered 6th Generation Honda Accord transmission failure.

isellhondas · May 2002

Since I'm the only Honda salesperson in these forums, I guess I'm an easy target...

For the benefit of the newcomers here, let's get a couple of things straight. I hate being misquoted.

rbruehl, you, indeed had a tale of woe to tell, you had not one but two transmissions fail. Honda offered to replace your transmission for the third time but you opted to throw in the towel and buy a Toyota. I'm sure you had reason to be frustrated and I do hope your Toyota will provide you with a long and troublefree life. If probably will, since it's a Toyota. Like Honda, they build excellent cars with a good reputation.

And, you have remained on these boards, forevermore, retelling and retelling your story.

I guess that's why I (and others) have become weary of hearing the same story so many times.

I mean..isn't it time to move on?

Beachnut...well, I guess I would think a no charge replacement at 50,000 miles as a goodwill offering would be a good thing. I don't work for Honda nor can I speak for them. I'm sure if the customer had receipts showing regular maintainance it would help in my decision.

I have NEVER ONCE said in any forum that Hondas never have problems. We all know that any car can and will have glitches.

Hopefully someone will agree that some balance is needed in these forums.

I have never used these forums to promote myself or my business. I state my opinion truthfully as I happen to see things.

The sky isn't falling. The transmission problems that affected some 1999-2000 V-6 Accords and Odysseys have been long resolved under warranty.

anselmo1 · May 2002

I guess this forum that I started is open to all regarding Honda Quality Control Issues. The original purpose was to share information with others that encountered the same problem.

One of the reasons I started this topic was reading about various quality control topics at other Honda boards. One topic that was constantly mentioned in those boards was the Honda Accord transmission problems regarding the 6th Generation model.

It has to make one wonder if so many people are posting this problem--there has to be concern. It has been listed in all 6th Generation Accords including both the I-4 and V-6 from 1998 to 2002.

To conclude, I contend that this is hardly a coincidence.

isellhondas · May 2002

I doubt that some will believe this but I have not heard of any problems with any of the 4 cyl models. The 99-2000 troubles were isolated but real, and limited to V-6 models.

Before I get jumped on by someone....I have no doubt that some 4 cyl automatics have acted up. When you build millions of something mechnical, things will happen.

bodydouble · May 2002

You are not a target because you sell Hondas. There are other salesmen on other threads (various Toyota threads, for example) who have been praised by many posters. There's a guy who's a Honda mechanic (auburn63) who posts regularly on the Accord Problems thread who goes out of his way to advise people on how to go about fixing their problems, no matter how minor. You are getting the reaction that you are getting because of your unrelenting careless remarks and cavalier attitude towards people with problems with their cars. Most of us that buy Hondas are regular 9 - 5 working folks. And to have a transmission fail out of warranty may seem like THE SKY IS FALLING to many of us. How many people have $2,000 - $3,000 extra cash sitting around to pay for an unexpected major car repair? I think most of us would in fact welcome a Honda "personnel", an "insider", if he or she is willing to offer information and advice that the regular poster does not have access to. But if you're going to be responding to posts, you should show a little empathy towards people and their problems.

isellhondas · May 2002

I don't think everyone around these forums thinks I'm such a bad person but maybe I'm wrong.

I think if you were aware of the history, you would, perhaps understand my reactions at times.

Example...Awhile back, a poster commented on how bad Accord brakes are. I think they told a story of a sister or someone who went through front pads every 20,000 miles or something...I don't remember the details.

I didn't respond until a couple of others chimed in, telling tales of woe about how bad Honda brakes are.

Now, from my personal observations and experiences, this just isn't the case. From my years of managing a large auto repair shop, it was my experience that the driver of the car was the major determining factor on how long brakes would last.

And, out of curisoity, I decided to have the brakes checked on my 99 V-6 EX Accord Coupe.

At the time, the car had (I think) 42,000 miles on it and the brakes still had over half the lining left on the original pads.

And, I'm not an abusive driver but I don't baby my cars either.

Next, someone critized the "horrible" Michelin tires and said they were terrible in the rain, poor traction etc...Again, I've had no troubles, nor have I ever heard on other complaint.

I am in a position where I hear complaints.

So, when I cried foul on these two issues, I get jumped on for being biased, having my head in the sand etc...

I guess no one wants to hear that an abusive driver will wear out brakes quickly or that a person who drives too fast in the rain may have trouble stopping?

On the tire issue I even said that I had no doubt that better tires are available and when the time comes, I'll probably put something different on the car.

But your point about empathy is well taken.

I do take offense, however to being called a liar (without using that word) when I attempt to reassure Honda owners that they will probably never experience some of the oddball problems others are having.

beachnut · May 2002

... of failure rate vs. quantity produced and whether this falls within the industry's accepted tolerance? Why, because it seems that this transmission problem is much bigger than some care to admit. After all, we're just hearing from a very small segment of the Accord owner population here on Edmund's. There are hundreds of thousands not voicing their issues, but I don't have access to that type of info. Maybe someone else on this board does?

Isell: I believe you when you say you have not seen any problems with the I-4, but you are one person, in one area, working at one dealership. I'm sure you have connections and friends at other dealerships who may be telling you the same thing. But official numbers would speak louder, and you must admit that there is the possibility you could be wrong. I always try to base my opinions in fact. I would think that you would like to do the same.

Why do I care? Well, my '99 had a quirky transmission, searching for gear and jumping around at low-speed. That just doesn't seem normal to me. My '00 does the exact same thing. The dealership and Honda say this is SOP. Well, if it's normal then great, but I've been into the dealer twice now complaining. I'll be out of warranty in less than 10K and I'm concerned. I bought the Accord based upon it's excellent reputation. I want to keep this car for a good long time. But I really have to wonder, especially when my transmission does weird stuff, then I come to these forums and read what I've been reading..

isellhondas · May 2002

Oftentimes, a "problem" isn't really a problem. It's simply a normal characteristic of a particular make or model.

The Accord, for example has a firmer shift than the Buick they traded in. They assume something isn't right. They return to the dealership where they are told, truthfully, " they all work like that".

They leave, unconvinced, and search forums like these for " the truth".

It gets frustrating...

fish8 · May 2002

I sold my Honda and bought a new car this weekend. I feel a lot better now that I no longer have the Accord. Right now I will not buy another Honda product, but in the future I'm sure I will. I can't knock the entire make just because I had a bad experience with my Honda Transmission. As a whole, they make really goos solid (boring - not including the s2000) cars.

Later

isellhondas · May 2002

Just curious...what did you buy?

fish8 · May 2002

2002 VW Jetta...it may not be as reliable, but it is more fun to drive......also the 4yr/50k warranty helped.

bodydouble · May 2002

We disagree on many issues but I got to give credit where credit is due. You took some direct criticism point blank in the last little while but you didn't retaliate in a war of words. You tried to explain your position and accepted some of the criticism. Your subsequent responses to other posts have been noticably more moderate. Overall you've been very civil and should be commended for that.

isellhondas · May 2002

Well, you are correct. VW's aren't noted for extreme reliability. They have improved in recent years though, and I agree, they are fun to drive.

I do wish you well.

isellhondas · May 2002

I do try to temper my responses when I get taken on in these forums. If pushed, I'll push back to a point but if someone really pushes my buttons, I'll back out. Life is short.

I'm not one to mince words, however and I'm sure that can come across as a lack of empathy.

I do appreciate your kind words.

fish8 · May 2002

Thanks!!! I hope to enjoy my Jetta for awhile.

mikefm58 · May 2002

that we're getting along better and I want to commend Isell for maintaining his composure.

timadams · May 2002

I don't sell Hondas but I too remember the "Hondas have bad brakes" posts. I have original brake pads on my 98 Accord and just had the state inspection done at 64,000 miles. My mechanic said the front pads will probably last another one or two oil changes (4k or 8k miles). So I agree with Isell that the driver was likely to blame if brake pads wore out at 20k miles.

I have a V6 Accord, and have had no tranny problems thus far at 64k miles. So, I can add my offsetting personal experience to the tales of woe. That doesn't mean I don't believe those who post their troubles, but one must keep in mind that people are much more likely to post complaints and problems than they are to post about not having problems.

Regarding the warranty and replacing a transmission, here's my opinion. For the first 50k miles, I think Honda should replace the tranny at no cost. Why do I think they should beyond the 36k mile warranty? I think it is reasonable to believe that the problem began before the warranty expired, even though the failure didn't occur until after that point.

Honda should offer some partial payment between 50k and 100k miles, probably on a sliding scale from 50 percent down to zero percent co-payment on Honda's part. Would that make an owner happy who had one fail at 55k, 85k or 105k miles? Probably not. But you don't buy products with the right of eternal happiness.

Some TVs last 5 years and some last 25 years. I'd probably change brands on a TV that only lasted 5 years, but I wouldn't expect the manufacturer to pay for a repair.

I had a Ford tranny fail at 110k miles, and it's made me leary of Ford transmissions. Fair or not, that's how I feel. And I understand anybody having a Honda tranny fail feeling the same way.

naz3 · May 2002

I am thinking of buying a 2002 Accord coupe and I will only do so if I find a Japanese one (based on what I've read here, thanks guys), but I have not been able to do. For those that were successful in getting a Japanese Accord, how did you go about it without going crazy? All the salespeople say the Japanese are rare if at all and only see American ones. I live on Long Island in New York.

Also, are the 4 cylinder Accords still prone to the automatic transmission problems than the V6's have? Do the 4-cylinders still have adequate power? Thanks in advance for any help.

Bob

pj23 · May 2002

I don't know how many of the coupes are built in Japan, but I do know that none of the V6 models are - they are all from Ohio.

Japanese v. American Accords have been discussed before. Here's something to keep in mind - a friend of mine has a 2000 EX-L sedan (I4), built in Japan, that had a new engine put in at 10,000 miles because pieces of metal (shavings, shards, etc.) were found in the original engine. Japanese-built Accords are not perfect. American-built Accords are not perfect.

isellhondas · May 2002

I'm trying to remember...I don't remember ever seeing a Japanese built Accord coupe.

I still maintain that there is no difference in build quality between Japan and US Hondas. Not that I've ever been able to tell anyway. My 99 coupe was built in the US and it's been flawless.

Like someone else said...no car will be perfect.

The 4 cyl Accords are not "still prone" to any transmission problems...they never were. The V-6 problems were isolated events.

As far as power? I think the 4 cyls have plenty of power but you should drive one and be your own judge of that.

Good luck!

beachnut · May 2002

Is there a way to tell (maybe from the VIN #) if your Accord was built in Japan?

bodydouble · May 2002

naz3 · May 2002

Is there any buzz (aside from a few photoshopped spy-pics) on the new 2003 Accord coupe? Maybe I'll just wait till it comes out, but by then it will be too late to buy a 2002 in case the 2003 isn't as nice. I wonder if the 2003 Accord coupes will be Ohio built or Japanese-built, I'm assuming Ohio. I still have a Japanese built 1993 Prelude Si with 110,000 miles (bought it new in 93) and it's still very tight with a great original tranny, however it burns alot of oil.

Any preliminary word on the 2003 Accord coupe changes from 2002? Thanks again, I'm glad I found this board.

Regards,
Bob

beachnut · May 2002

I thought that was the case - mine was built in Japan then.

maxhonda99 · May 2002

Accord Coupes are all bit in the US. And as far as I know, V6 coupes and sedans are all built in the US. Some 4-cylinder sedans are built in Japan. You can tell by the VIN number, if it starts with "J", it's made in japan.

lugwrench · May 2002

Has anyone seen any verified pictures of the new 2003 Honda Accord? I stopped by my Honda dealer and his lot contained 24 new Honda Pilots. On TV, the release date indicated June 3rd to the public.

Yes, I would take a Japanese built Accord any day in the week over the Ohio produced Accord.

Why is that Japanese manufacturers such as Acura, Toyota and Nissan all build their "luxury" models in Japan? Are Japanese car companies telling us something?

beachnut · May 2002

It's amazing how "Made in Japan" seems to carry extra clout nowadays, but not to belittle the folks in Ohio. I'm sure they do a fine job!

Kirstie_H · May 2002

A major daily newspaper is writing a story about collision damage insurance, and is looking to talk with drivers who have run into deer or moose. "In most states, such an encounter is not covered by comp. or collision damage insurance; you need special coverage. I want to talk to people who have had these collisions and learn how they handled them. Likewise, I'd also like to hear from people who were involved in some other sort of incident involving their auto and found out that insurance they thought they had was not there." Please respond no later than Monday, June 3 to paudel2001@msn.com and/or jfallon@edmunds.com. Thanks as always!

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

isellhondas · May 2002

I suppose if a prospective buyer is determined that Japan built cars are "better" than that's what he/she should buy I guess.

Personally, I've never been able to detect one twit of difference between them.

But...what do I know?

Loving my defect free '99 EX-V-6 coupe...US built!

rebeccamo · May 2002

I was quite surprised to find the label on the door jamb of my new Accord LX that said my car was "Made in Mexico." My sister's SE (both 4 cyl) was made in Japan. We bought our's days apart, so the comparison over the next few years should be interesting!

pblevine · May 2002

What nerve!

What do ya mean "my defect free EX-V-6 coupe...US built" ?

Hey, I thought I had the only one! Er, wait a cotton-picking-minute, mine is a '98 and yours is a '99. Ok, ok, now we know where the good ones went.

Is yours US built by way of Pitcarin Island?
And is yours a "Monday" car?
Mine is a "Second Shift Tuesday" car. So there!

isellhondas · May 2002

It did come from Pitcarin...You finally found me out!

Made in Mexico? Ah...don't think so!

paulo3 · May 2002

I will only buy a Honda that has a J on the Vin number. Case closed.

isellhondas · May 2002

That's fine...too bad you'll miss out on some great models.

To each his own...

rebeccamo · May 2002

I've spent the last 4 hours in transit from So CA, and the only thing I could think about on the plane was getting to my car to re-read the label inside the driver's door. I am relieved to know I am neither an idiot, nor a liar. It says, "MFD. BY HONDA DE MEXICO... MADE IN MEXICO." Now, if there is anyone (BESIDES isellhondas) than can validate that my car may have really been made in Mexico - or where it really was made - I would appreciate it.

Of course, maybe what I bought wasn't a real "Honda." You know - like the "Ray Bans" you buy for $10 in Tijuana??

jmtreetop · May 2002

"Honda de Mexico (HDM) began assembling vehicles in 1995 and produces Accord Sedans primarily for the Mexican market using engines from Honda's Anna Engine Plant in Ohio, and support and parts from Honda's North American suppliers. To date, HDM has produced more than 46,000 units."

http://www.autointell.com/News-2001/April-2001/April-18-01-p3.htm

isellhondas · May 2002

Maybe there weren't intended for import into the U.S.?

I've never seen one much less sold one.

maxhonda99 · May 2002

lugwrench, The Acura 3.2TL is made in the US. Same factory as the Accord in Marysville, OH. I believe so is the MDX. Did you know the BMW Z3, as well as X5 is made in the US? And did you know the next generation Lexus RX300 is going to be manufactured in Canada?

rebeccamo · May 2002

There's probably many more here in CA that were made in Mexico, but maybe the owners don't realize it.

Now that I look at the dealer sticker, it says the port of entry was San Diego, engine and transmission from USA, final assembly point El Salto, Jalisco, Mexico. Interesting!

I don't mind at all that my Accord was made in Mexico... it's still a Honda. I'm confident that it will give me years of reliable service. At least I have another 35,000 miles before I need to worry about it.

mike1qaz · May 2002

Rebecca, I believe the accords built there have a vin that starts with a "3". Take a look at your vin and let us know. I have seen a few of these on the lots in South Louisiana also. I believe the vins are: 1 USA, 2 CANADA, 3 MEXICO, J JAPAN.

Going back a few posts on brakes. I just had to replace my front pads at 68K on my 01 LX. I have no complaints on the wear and performance of my brakes. But I will warn others out there that are used to using the brake fluid reservoir level to determine pad wear, that my fluid level was midway when the pads needed replacement. All the other cars that I had owned lately would have been at the minimum level. Noone else added any fluid either because I do my own routine maintenance.

jeepvan · May 2002

Hi,
In my Accord EX 97, my little son, put some coins inside the casset player. Now, the casset goes inside and comes back again. It is not playing, but the AM/FM is fine. Any idea how to fix this? and a rough cost ?Thanks for your help.

lugwrench · June 2002

If you want the top quality built car in the world, it comes out of a Japanese plant.

J.D. Power rated Toyota's Tahara, Japan, factory that builds the Lexus GS 300/430 and LS 430 cars as the world's best for producing quality vehicles.

Ever since Mercedes Benz put a plant in Alabama, their quality has slipped. BMW's plant in South Carolina doesn't put out the once stellar cars it produced in Germany. Look at the VW plant in Mexico that produces the trouble prone VW bug.

Look at the Honda plant in Ohio and ask yourself, "Are these cars built as great as they were 10 years ago"? If your answer is Yes, go to the NHSTA site and look at all the complaints.

Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

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