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Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    And while you are there, bring up ANY OTHER make and see if there are any complaints.

    Look up the nature of the complaints...

    And...hey, I have no problem with anybody who thinks Japan built Hondas are better.

    I just disagree...totally.

    But what do I know? I've only sold about a thousand of them.

    And, before anybody calls me biased or accuses me of "having my head in the sand", I'll say this...

    You could be right...It's just that I have never been able to detect any differences in quality.

    Buy what you like!
  • paulo3paulo3 Member Posts: 113
    I have to agree with Lugwrench, the numbers at the NHSTA don't lie isellhondas. There are more and more complaints regarding Accords. You might sell Hondas but I believe you wear "rose colored glasses" when someone presents facts. Maybe you just don't want to believe all the customer complaints posted at the NHSTA?

    Listen isellhondas, the NHSTA numbers are facts and not lies. People have more complaints regarding Accords---that's what the NHSTA is all about.

    Yes isellhondas, you might sell 1000's of Hondas but I also suggest you start reading the 1000's of complaints at the NHSTA. All the numbers are there!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah but what makes a complaint at NHSTA a "valid" complaint?

    You can read these very boards and see any number of "complaints" that are very heartfelt but nonetheless very dubious.

    As for the "made in Japan" claim vs. the "made in Mexico" claim vs WHATEVER, I think that is second-guessing taken to an extreme when buying a car or truck. You look at CR, Edmunds, talk to owners, and make up your mind from that. Trying to prove a relative statistical defect rate between the same models made in different countries?---well, GOOD LUCK, that's a tough piece of work for the average car buyer, unless you are content to make your decisions based on unproven rumors that SOUND like "they should be true".
  • rebeccamorebeccamo Member Posts: 7
    Yup - It begins with a 3. 3HGCG...
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    Lugwrench makes some valid points as well Mr. Shiftright. Here is the latest survey results from J.D. Powers so everyone can make their own judgment.


    http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20020531/1008063.asp

  • mikegold_1966mikegold_1966 Member Posts: 138
    Isn't it interesting the Japanese manufacturer Nissan's quality has slipped this past year? The plant that produces the new Altima is in Tennessee which happens to be a state in the USA!

    I would love to see a quality comparison of the Honda plant in Ohio and the Honda plant in Japan that produces Accords. I bet for my money, the plant in Japan produces a high quality Accord. Unfortunately, Honda doesn't share this type of data with the consumer.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Some makes are worse than others.

    My god...if we based our car buying on these reports we would all ride bicycles or take a bus!

    And, mikegold...you are correct. The Honda plant in Japan does produce "high quality Accords" So does the plant in Ohio.
  • pj23pj23 Member Posts: 158
    Wait a minute, Toyota has four assembly plants in the United States producing 1.1 million vehicles annually, including the Camry, Camry Solara, Corolla, Avalon, Sienna, Tacoma, Tundra, and Sequoia. But wait a minute, Toyota was at the TOP of the JD Power ratings. There must be some sort of mistake. Toyotas are made in the United States and yet head the initial quality ratings?

    I think everyone should take a moment to read some of the NHTSA complaints. Here is one of my favorites:

    "THIS MODEL HONDA MAKES A LOUD NOISE, COMING FROM THE UNDERNEATH THE CAR, WHEN FIRST STARTED COLD. THE SOUND IS MORE LIKE A "THUMP" AND IS SUPSPECTED (ALTHOUGH I'M NOT CERTAIN) TO BE EITHER THE TRANSMISSION OR THE EXHAUST SYSTEM. I TRIED SEVERAL DIFFERENT CARS AND THE NOISE WAS CONSISTENT. THE DEALER TELLS ME THE NOISE IS "NORMAL" WHICH IS ABSURD. HONDA HAS A RECALL PENDING ON EARLIER MODEL CARS FOR AN EXHAUST SYUSTEM PROBLEM--I'M WONDERING IF THIS COULD BE RELATED. I AM NOT AN EXPERT SO DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS A SERIOUS MATTER OR NOT."

    Clearly, if every car does it, it MUST be a defect that is related to a previous exhaust recall on an eariler model car. It is clearly not: a) sensitive ears, b) a normal, mechanical actuation on start-up or shifting, or c) the fist of God pounding the car roof in frustration. And, because no VIN is indicated in the complaint, this could even be, *gasp*, a Japanese Accord being complained about!

    Mr. Shiftright is correct, these NHTSA consumer complaints are very subjective. The assertion that Japanese-built Accords are better than American-built Accords is based on anecdotal evidence, at best. Subjective and anecdotal evidence does not prove a point. Certainly, there are Accords rolling off the assembly line in Japan that are superior to ones rolling off the assembly line in Ohio. The reverse is just as true, as I alluded to somewhere on these boards, regarding my friend's Japanese-built 2000 I4-EX needing its entire engine replaced at 10,000 miles, due to what appeared to be manufacturing defects - the car was maintained per Honda specifications.

    Those looking to buy Japanese Accords, by all means do so. And enjoy your Accord. The rest of us with Accords from Ohio will put on a brave face and try to muddle through. But please stop perpetuating what only amounts to a myth. If you've got objective data to prove that Japanese Accords are superior, by all means share it. You are making the assertions, it is not up to the rest of us to prove the negative. It is up to you to back up what you say.

    And when I see you at a stoplight, I'll laugh as my EX-V6 leaves you in the dust.
  • dc_sports_ruledc_sports_rule Member Posts: 134
    What I am reading is that the Japanese build better Accords in Japan than Ohio. Also, I didn't see the Toyota plant in Louisville or the Honda plant in Ohio singled out as top plants in quality. Good plants yes but not the tops in the field.

    As far as NHSTA sure there are complaints from all car manufacturers but what about the same complaints that keep re appearing pertaining to a certain model? I sure read a lot of balancer shaft seal complaints regarding 1994-1997 Honda Accords. It had me worried because my car was a 1996 Accord. The complaints must have been heard because Honda fixed my seal with a clip. They notified me by mail. Other things that stand out are the wiring harness on Accords as well as the air bag recalls.

    The NHSTA provides checks and balances that force manufacturers into doing something when there is a continuous problem recorded.
  • pj23pj23 Member Posts: 158
    Query - where, apart from this board, do you read that Japanese Accords are better?

    I don't debate the usefulness of the NHTSA complaint mechanism, nor the validity of many of the complaints. I do take issue with equating the number of complaints to a lower quality product from a domestic factory, which, unless I was misreading, is exactly what was done. And I think, for a car like the Accord, that sells in the numbers that it does and has the reputation that it has (which makes people hold it to a higher standard), that 80 complaints for several hundred thousand cars sold in 2001, is an egregious amount.

    And lastly, what happened to domestic Honda plants in 1995-96 that caused a sudden decrease in quality? Some have at least insinuated that Accord quality was just fine before then, but all of a sudden, quality headed downhill. What about the 13 or 14 years Accords were built in the United States before 1995?

    My point about Toyota was this, despite having plants in the United States, they were at the top of the JD Power rating. Apparently, their domestic plants must be producing quality cars.

    And, just for the record, I am not trying to defend Honda to the death. I am not a Honda salesman, don't own any stock. I just haven't seen the proof. And I drove Chevrolet's answer to the Accord for 2 years. The Malibu may have been one of the most improved in initial quality, but it had (and still has, in my opinion) a heck of a long way to go to match the Accord for sophistication, reliability, and quality of assembly and materials.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Well stated. It amazes me the "educated" people on this board who believe Japanese build Accords are better than the ones built in Ohio and have no factual evidence to back up their beliefs.

    dc_sports_rule, Sure Honda acknowledged they had a problem and notified you. That's what they should do. I used to get those all the time when I owned Chevy vans. I've yet to get one with my 99 CRV and 01 Accord.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    lugwrench, So the fact that the 3.2TL is one of the top cars in it's class in JD Powers IQS study means nothing? The BMW Z3 and X5, which are both built in the US are very reliable also. Don't understand your comments about BMW US made cars. The Toyota Camry and Accord are still extremely reliable cars. I don't doubt that the Japanese produced Accords are of higher quality, but I doubt the American Accords are as crappy as some people make them out to be. Why you may ask? My coupe is american made. And it's quite good. Actually except for a couple of problems when first bought, it's never been back to the dealer for a warranty claim.

    And also remember that quality could be caused by other factors besides where the factory is. Key among them is simply the engineering of the product. Shortcuts in engineering could also cause low quality.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    I don't think US-built Accords are "crappy". They are probably still above average compared to most other cars. Mechanical reliability I think are comparable between US and Japanese Accords. I think the area where Japanese-built cars is superior is fit and finish. We have owned over a dozen Hondas over the years and by and large the Japanese cars had better workermanship reflected in better panel fitting and less rattles.
  • pj23pj23 Member Posts: 158
    Sorry, my earlier post should've read, I DON'T think 80 complaints is egregious.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    You've made me look up egregious in the dictionary! :)
  • rbruehlrbruehl Member Posts: 85
    If I had to do it all over again, I would have bought an Accord made in Japan and not Ohio. My transmission problem has been well documented. I now drive a Solara that was made in Japan and not in Kentucky and I am happy I did. My preference will always be a car manufactured in Japan!
  • gunzitogunzito Member Posts: 3
    I HAVE A HONDA ACCORD EX 2 DOOR V6 AND IT HAS 74,000 MILES ON IT. TODAY I TOOK IT TO THE DEALER AND GOT AN ENGINE DIAGNOSIS ON IT. FROM MY UNDERSTANDING ABOUT A YEAR AGO HONDA PUT FORTH THIS CAMPAIGN REGARDING THERE EGR VALVES ON 98-01 HONDA ACCORDS TO REPLACE FOR FREE IF THEY MESSED UP. WHEN I GOT THE DIAGNOSTIC DONE THE COMPUTER PULLED THE CODE P0401 WHICH MEANS INSUFFIECENT AIR FLOW, NEEDS CLEANED AND EGR REPLACED. THEY TOLD ME THAT THE PREVIOUS OWNER SEEMED TO HAVE HAD THE EGR REPLACED ALREADY BY PROCESSING MY VIN STATUS REPORT AND SAID THAT THEY WILL NOT REPLACE MY EGR THE EGR AS PART OF THE CAMPAIGN THAT I WILL HAVE TO PAY $300.00. NOW MY QUESTION IS SHOULDN'T HONDA REPLACE FOR FREE IF THERE WAS A RECALL ON THE PART ANYWAY. AND MY NEXT QUESTION IS THE PART COST 200.00. I WAS THINKING THAT IF I HAD TOO COULD I REPLACE THE EGR MYSELF AND IF I COULD HOW WOULD I CLEAN THE INTAKE THAT HONDA WAS SUGGESTION.. IS THIS AN EASY JOB. PLEASE SEND ME INFO.
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    Take the next step and call the Honda regional office. Explain your position and the defect prone EGR valve. Demand they replace it again and indicate that the first replacement could have also been defective. This definitely seems to be one of the Honda supplier problems which they out source.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I hope your problem get's solved..but....

    PLEASE UNLOCK YOUR CAPS KEY !!!!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd like to see, really LOVE to see, once piece of credible, published data from a serious entity showing any kind of statistic that shows Japanese manufactured versions of the same car are superior in quality to the US made version.

    Anything at all with any hard data, even a half-completed term paper. I am ready to change my mind about this but I need more than "he said, she said" to do that.

    Right now, when I look at reliability statistics, I don't see any patterns that I can discern at least to support the Japanese quality theory.

    You cannot, by the way, pick out those statistics that support your idea and ignore similar stats that defeat it. If one U.S. made Japanese car has a low rating, but another U.S. made Japanese car has a high rating, you have got a serious problem with your theory.

    Now if all U.S. made Japanese cars were at the bottom of the list, I'd pay attention to that.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    There is not a more serious entity than the paying consumer and his testimony. YEAH BABY, you betcha, there is nothing like actual anecdotal evidence, and there is clearly a sizeable body of opinion out there that says, overall, by and large, Japanese-made Hondas are of superior quality, especially in the area of fit and finish.
  • lateraluslateralus Member Posts: 13
    I used to own a '92 Lexus ES300, then I sold it and bought a '00 Accord EXV6. My VIN started with a "1" so I knew the Honda was built in Ohio, but I didn't let that bother me. Until I had the car for about a year. I really noticed the difference in material (leather) quality and build quality as compared to the 300. So another 6 months of this went by and now I'm back in a newer Japanese built ES300 (they're all made there). So I agree with bodydouble, we, the ones writing on this board are a serious entity. And I still think that the [non-permissible content removed] make them better, regardless of whether they manage the US plants or not. I just think they care more. And I'm just not going to mention any of "the big three", their cars don't even touch Honda/Toyota, no matter where they're built.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay, you are in fact an "entity", so I used the wrong word. I meant a "statistical gathering body".

    You are one person and you could be very wrong or you could be very right. But you have no evidence of either at the moment. All you have is the testimony of three other people in the world so far who probably haven't owned the Japanese version of their car to compare it too.

    This experience is just your own, and results may vary, in other words.
  • anselmo1anselmo1 Member Posts: 163
    Mr. Shiftright, you know Honda doesn't release any data to any agency regarding its products. It is the consumer that makes the decision on what the better produced car is and where! JD Powers utilizes consumers as you are well aware in various studies. Honda like other automotive companies pays dearly for this information. Fit and finish is very important and you neglected to mention that the USA EPA standards demand a water base paint. In Japan, they utilize an oil base paint. This means a lot regarding fit and finish. Just ask any body shop what the better paint is!
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    or, in keeping with this weekend's sporting atmosphere, it is.....Japanese-built cars by TKO!
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    Is that other than the tranmission issue, there haven't been ANY mentions of any other problems by any owners of cars that didn't have a substantial number - over 70,000 IIRC. I haven't heard any reports of new cars with transmission problems either. Honda acknowledged a bad batch of transmissions, just as BMW acknowleged a bunch of bad electric fans....

    Ford, D/C and GM on the other hand seem to wait until the number of cars with the problem climbs into the hundreds of thousands. VW certainly hasn't made any friends with the quality of the New Beetles.... I think that the Japanese have a better track record when it comes to taking care of customers than some other manufacturers.

    Another question has been puzzling me. Does Honda really produce two separate and distinct sets of parts for the Japanese Market and for the U.S. market? Of course some parts would be market specific, but I can't imagine that, say, transmissions are.

    If transmissions are the big problem, what difference would a Japanese made car make? Assembly stuff is alignment of parts and squeeks and rattles. Component quality is in the design of the parts and they'll last as long as they last regardless of who puts them together, generally speaking.

    Last question. How much more would you be willing to pay for a Honda with a warranty to 100,000 miles? $500? $1,000?

    ....comments?
  • beachnutbeachnut Member Posts: 291
    You bring up an interesting point about water-based paint. My '00 SE has several small scuffs on the front bumper due to some *person* who backed into my car in a parking lot. I've let it go for about 1.5 years now (not really that bad). The body shop estimate at the time was $275 for the repair. This is a reputable shop used exclusively by the local Honda dealer. Their recommended course of action is to remove the bumper, repair the area (about 9" square), repaint only the area, then finally clearcoat the entire bumper. My main concerns have been: #1. Will they get the bumper fitted back on as well as it is now? (remember, Japanese-built, my fit and finish is excellent, hehe!). #2. Even though the paint is in fantastic shape, I worry about proper matching of the ruby pearl color. #3. If the paint on my car is oil-based, will they be using a water-based paint for the repair? If so, I'm concerned about matching different paint types. What do you think?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's just another misconception that the consumer has, that water based paints are somehow inferior to oil based paints. That's simply not true.

    What the body shop REALLY means but won't tell you is that they don't want to take the TIME to apply the water based paints correctly. If they are done right, they are just as good as any other modern paint commonly used on everyday cars. Read the directions on the can guys!

    Consumers are the best SOURCE of quality data but not the best at gathering and interpreting it.

    Consumers are ironically, the "first to find out but the last to know"....that is, they don't know if their problem is relegated to a few cars or to many. So they and their neighbor and their uncle could have transmission problems on the 2002 Blivet XL, but they simply cannot know if this is a serious defect or merely a statistical glitch with them.

    22 complaints on the Internet, all unverified, do not make a statistical base for any rational comment on a product. It's simply too little of too unverified data, and makes no sense to me as a way of getting to the truth about something.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    The PEOPLE have spoken. In the consumer market, reality often takes a back seat to public perception. Even if there is some truth in what you're saying, it'll be lost in the sea of public perception. You do remember the VHS v. Beta situation, don't you? Beta was technically superior. Where is Beta now?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You might as well give up...I did!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No, no, he gave a little bit of ground there. This is a reasonable man we can still talk to.!

    Anyway, I dont want to monopolize here. People want to talk about their Accord problems, so let's give them some room!
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Member Posts: 213
    I just read that Honda is changing its suspension on its new 2003 Accord. Does this mean they are dropping the famous "wishbone suspension" like they did on the new Civic and adding McPhearson struts to cut costs? The "more room thing scenario" won't fly with me as an excuse to cut costs.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    First of all...I've heard nothing.

    Personally, as long as the interior room and safety ratings are improved, I really don't care as long as the handling isn't affected.

    Do not assume this change was made in the Civics as a cost cutting measure.

    And, I have yet to hear even one customer complain about the change in the Civics.

    We will soon find out, I suppose...
  • pblevinepblevine Member Posts: 858
    'How 'bout Japanese workers in US plants?
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    Makes no difference. Reason = peer pressure.
  • bburton1bburton1 Member Posts: 395
    A young yahoo took off the rear bumper and part of the fender of my 97 japan built accord. The local body shop used water based paint to paint the beast. Am starting to notice some difference but no big deal
  • bburton1bburton1 Member Posts: 395
    Just got my bi-annual emissions test done on my 97 accord in WI. Well have been getting a CEL and the code is for evap system. So I just pulled the fuse before the test, drove to the test station-guy could not find the plug - it's behind the ash tray. He plugged it in-did not bother to put it on the dyno wheel to run it up to 55mph and the screen read OBDII compliant and that was it.

    Morale to the story-get retired school teachers to do your emissions testing on a hot Friday afternoon and pull that fuse to reset the CEL before driving up to the station.
  • mikegold_1966mikegold_1966 Member Posts: 138
    Water based paint will tend to chip a lot easier than an oil based paint. If anyone disagrees, think about the bonding agents in water as compared to oil. Enough said--simple even for the non believer!
  • pblevinepblevine Member Posts: 858
    My experience with water based paint ('98 Accord) proves your point. Every damn speck of sand (winter sand and road salts) that hits my front end at speed leaves a tiny chip. In previous cars, the same sort of sand would leave little (as in tiny) scratches but would not go through the paint to the "undercoat". On my Accord, there is a white undercoat like layer. My car, of course, has a dark green paint. And so, every little nik leaves a visible white spot. Oh joy.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    Well according to shiftright, and isell (which goes without saying) there isn't the damn bit of difference. Of course I don't know what qualification these 2 gentlemen have in regard to paint chemistry. But apparently the information (re the paint) is right there on the can!
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    Just curious. How many of the posters on this board have visited an automobile assembly plant in Japan? How do you know what really goes on there?

    With the terrible economy in Japan, their culture has changed quite a bit in the last few years.

    Have their work habits changed? I suspect that they have.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    No doubt they may not be the happy, eager beavers they were when their economy was booming, but, IMO, you can't change something that's ingrained in one's culture, either in a negative or positive direction, overnight. It may change over time when a new generation of workers, with a new attitude, come on board.
  • cds12cds12 Member Posts: 139
    While its true the Japanese economy has been bad for a while, its effect on the "average Japanese factory worker" has not been that great. The average Japanese workers lifestyle/economic status has changed much in the last 30 years. Its the middle class that has suffered a change.
  • paulo3paulo3 Member Posts: 113
    I agree with MikeGold 100%. It is a no brainer when it comes to water based paint. Walk into in top collision shop and ask what paint is better and stands the test of time. 10 out of 10 will say oil based hands down!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Please...don't put words into my mouth...O.K.?

    I have never said there was any difference between the paint jobs on U.S. vs. Japan Accords.

    I have NO IDEA if the paint is different and I really don't care.

    My black EX V-6 coupe has a fair number of paint chips on the leading edge of th hood. It was US built.

    I also see paint chips on Japan cars.

    Lets see...car is going 75 MPH, small rock hits hood, paint chips.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Sheesh.....Japanese vs. American workers, oil base paint vs. water based paint. How the heck can any of you know enough to judge Japanese & American workers? Show me some hard evidence that compares these types of workers. I'm beginning to feel it's a waste of my time reading some of this stuff.
  • beachnutbeachnut Member Posts: 291
    That's why this forum is here, for people to talk about Accord QC issues. This is the information super-highway, right?! Unfortunately, all of the info here can't be taken as gospel - from either camp. I think everyone can agree though that numbers and hard evidence are what we want, but finding the elusive smoking-gun can be difficult. Therefore, the debate rages on. As long as the participants stay civil and steer away from sweeping claims, the debate can be lively and entertaining, JMO.

    I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert on this topic, but I've had two late model Accords, and that's worth something, even if it's a consumer-based, anecdotal opinion. I'd like to think that I'm an educated consumer who is trying to learn more. When folks bring up issues in these forums that sound interesting to me, or concern me, I try to find out more. It's a curiousity thing for me, and probably many others too.
  • lugwrenchlugwrench Member Posts: 213
    I am wondering how many of the new 2003 Honda Accords will be made in Japan?

    Also, I would like to hear from someone with knowledge in chemistry relating to a comparison between oil and water based paints. I personally talked with a person that works in a high end collision shop (Lexus, Acura, Jaguar etc) and he said there is no comparison. An oil based paint has better durability and pointed out a Lexus ES 300 to me.

    Now, I would like to find a chemist that can give a final determination to end this topic once and for all in a constructive light!
  • pj23pj23 Member Posts: 158
    I was in a J-VIN Accord yesterday, which means it was built in Japan. Or that is what someone wanted me to think. Because, as we went over bumps, there was a rattle!! We all know that the Japanese Accords don't rattle, due to their superior build quality. So, I can only conclude that this one came from Ohio, and those sneaky American workers there got a hold of a J-number VIN plate, and made it look like a Japanese Accord.
  • dc_sports_ruledc_sports_rule Member Posts: 134
    That rattling you heard was from the empty beer bottles rolling around in the trunk and on the floor in the back seat.
This discussion has been closed.

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